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Haimy- Really? You want a unit that only answers to the Gedolei Torah? After stressing how are Gedolim need to be kulo Torah with very little experience with the outside world, you would consult them on military matters with them having very little experience with the military matters, political matters, or foreign policy? Obviously, poskim need to be consulted on Halachic issues that come up in the army, just like poskim need to be consulted when halachic issues come up in medical or financial matters… but ultimately, you’re not asking a Gadol to make the final medical decision of a hospital or for medical treatment. You leave that to the doctors, and even when they are atheists! Why shouldn’t a military unit be under the jurisdiction of military experts and generals just because they aren’t frum?
Who cares if it\s technically a Milchemes Mitzvah or not? Yes, there are speicifc rules of obligations when it comes to a Milchemes Mitzvah. but it also teaches us an attitude on what our colelctive responsibility should be when our enemies attacks us who want to exterminate ALL of us and take our land. Does a Milchemes Mitzvah need a king and a Sanhedrin? Maybe. But just because we lack one doesn’t mean that we can’t take the lessons of Milchemes Mitzvah and apply it to the current tragic reality. This is not a chok like an Esrog where if it’s missing a small component then we dump the whole thing. A lemon that looks like an esrog is not an esrog. This is much deeper then that. These are our lives. These are our children. This is our land. And this is our future. What’s our responsibility to each other? What does Milchemes Mitzvah teach us? That we only have a responsibility to stand up for each other against our common enemy when we have 71 Sages sitting at the Lishkas HaGazis? What a tragic way to turn off our brains and throw our brothers into the fire while we pretend nothing can hurt is. What selfishness.
I liked Vance until he ran with the immigrants eating pets lie. When someone in power is willing to take an unsubstantiated rumor and present it as fact which is embraced by their base, it reminds me of similar things rulers and politicians said about our people throughout history with disastrous results. They happen to be on our side now bH, but if that were to change…
I’m happy he won in the sense that he was better than the alternative which was seemingly very scary. But I can’t in good conscious celebrate his victory knowing the kind of financial and assault crimes that he has allegedly committed (and some even convicted of!) He has possibly done some very very bad things and it makes me sad that in order to ensure that our interests our met, we have to prop up and praise and elect this kind of person. This seems like borderline chanifa.
It’s important to note how serious hatred is. The big 3 averios were responsible for destroying the first Beis HaMikdash while sinas chinam alone was responsible for the second- a galus that we’re still in. Chilonim may violate aveiros (and presumably not the big 3), but their dedication to sacrifice everything they hold dear to stand in between us and our enemies is the exact opposite of sinas chinam and probably a greater zechus then you give credit for. Neturei Karta may be fulfilling every other mitzvah, and they may even have good intentions for the things they do wrong, but aligning themselves with genocidal terrorists who want to massacre and destroy is is the greatest show of sinas chinam then I can think of. It’s the most destructive thing a Jew can do and I can think of no greater Chilul Hashem. Hopfully the zechusim of holy soldiers, both Dati and Chiloni, will be able to outweigh the terrible damage that Neturei Karta does to our people. May we all have a year of safety, security, health, happiness, Ahavas Yisroel and Avodas HaShem.
UJM- I wouldn’t compare the Yeshivish velt making shalom with YU (or even Dati LeUmi) to making shalom between the Orthodox and Conservative/Reform. I would compare it to making shalom between the Misnagdim and the Chasidim.
UJM- ” Zionism and the State of Israel have been devastating to Klal Yisroel” Every generation there was anti-semitism, and absolutely violent and destructive anti semitism at that. In each generation it takes a different shape and form. From the religious persecution of the crusades and the Inquisition, to the race and nationalist persecution of the Nazis in Germany. Nowadays, Eisav Sonei es Yaakov takes the shape of Arab violence and anti-semitism. It’s easy to use that as a cheap shot against the state and argue that it’s the cause of the violence, but anyone who knows Jewish history knows that’s not true. If there was no State, if Zionism had died, do you really think this would be the generation that the violence and the anti-semitism died and we would finally live in peace with the Goyim around us? Of course not… it would just take some other form. The only difference between the violent anti-semitism nowadays and of years passed is that finally God gave us the means to defend ourselves.
In addition, I would like to argue that spiritually, the State has been magnificent for Klal Yisroel. Yes, I know that Zionisism was born out of a nationalisitc and anti-religious fervor… and many Zionists are still not just non-religious but anti-religious. The State is far from being majority dati (whether Charedi or Dati Leumi) and there is much work to be done. But unlike other spiritual challenges to our people, from the haskalah in Europe, to Communism in the Soviet Union, to the non-religious in the USA… the non-religious’ connection to Klal Yisroel as a nation is also weakend and we see so many marrying out and dropping out from our people. The non religious in Israel still maintain a fierce connection to Eretz Yisroel and to Klal Yisroel as a nation (even though not as a religion) and still maintain fidelity to not only our land, but a far higher percentage stay married in than their golus counterparts. This also keeps their pintele Yid alive, always leaving the chance for them to indeed get close to the religion. Without the connection to Zionism, the State, and Eretz Yisroel, they would be drowning in the secular world of Europe and the USA and many would be gone forever.
Thank you HaShem for the wonderful gift of the Medina. Klal Yisroel is better off for it.
UJM- “The Zionist State has been the largest cause of anti-Semitic violence, terrorism, war and deaths r”l against the Jewish People ever since the rasha Theodore Herzl announced the Zionist goals and especially every since the rasha David Ben-Gurion and his henchmen established the Zionist Entity.”
I think the physical destruction of the Holocaust and the Soviet Union are miles ahead… as well as the spiritual destruction of Western Europe and the US (in terms of intermarriage).
Hakatan- can you clarify which Jews were against the Zionists “invading?” Jews were returning to Eretz Yisroel in droves pre WWII which is our God given right. We knew that as long as EY was in control of someone else, that our right to return would be limited… And that came true when the British issued the White Papers preventing the escapees and survivors of the Holocaust to come home. Other than hardcore 3 Shvuah-nicks who thinks establishing a state is the fourth yeihareg veal yaavor, who at the time was against us establishing a state, even via war, to ensure that all Jews worldwide would have our home available and accessible to return to?
And I’m also not sure it was an invasion. The World gave us a state when the British left and then the new state was invaded by the Arabs.
HaKatan- I mean, I think it’s clear that the Medina is bringing the geulah. The fact is, part of the geulah is kibbutz galuyos. And whatever the strength and weaknesses of the medina are, it’s is clear that they are facilitating a return to Eretz Yisroel to the point where almost half of world Jewry is now in Israel. That’s what kibbutz galuyos is. While it’s unclear from the sources whether Kibutz Galuyos has to be through miraculous means or teva, ultimately, kibbutz galuyos means a return of the Jewish people to Israel which is undeniably happening and facilitated by the Medina and its right of return. I can see no greater evidence of Atchalta LeGeulasa then that.
UJM- it’s a decision I think we should all be torn about. Even ignoring the intense international pressure, a ceasefire will bring our soldiers and the hostages home. Will hopefully allow displaced families go home. And it’s not like Hamas hasn’t been weakened significantly… so many have them been killed and infrastructure destroyed. It set them back significantly. Was Israel ever going to destroy them 100%? Does Israel really have a plan for Gaza if they somehow do pull it off? I don’t think it’s so obvious that this deal is the wrong decision.
The fear was that Hezbollah could take advantage of the mass gathering and shoot rockets toward Meron, something they have done before. If that were to happen, the consequences could’ve been devastating, causing massive deaths and injuries.
It is undoubtedly sad to see an elderly person so bloodied. But that doesn’t obscure the fact that were something to happen, he would have had far more blood on his hands than the amount of blood he lost because of the scar on his forehead.
An elderly man like him makes an impression on others, causing them to imitate him and follow in his footsteps. If any of those who were inspired by him to break the law and go to Meron were to be killed or hurt by Hezbollah rockets, he would have been complicit in their deaths.
So, the scarred forehead is sad, but the bloody recklessness is outrages.CA- Another reason to make aliyah. Chol HaMoed zoo day!
As my rebbe says- yichus is like a bunch of zeros. If you’re also a zero, then you just have a string of zeros. But if you’re a 1, and you put that in front of your string of yichus zeros, then you’re ten, or a hundred, or a thousand. Yichus enhances a tzadik, but it doesn’t create one.
Whenever there is kedushah, there is tumah to balance it out. Nevuah came with a ta’avah for avodah zarah. The plethora of Torah comes with additional distractions and worse of the internet. Becoming a Gaon is still a challenge, to access the good while weeding out the bad… it will never be easy to be gaon, even if the challenges of today differ significantly from the challenges of yesteryear.
Lakewhut- I’m no Democrat but stop making this political. We have enemies on both sides of the aisle. Both parties have good players and bad players. Both parties have policies that are in line with Torah and out of line with Torah. The Torah does not dictate one or the other. Our enemy is Hamas. Our enemy is those who want to kill us and destroy our land. It’s not the Republicans, it’s not the Democrats, and it’s certainly not fellow Jews who don’t see eye to eye with you on politics. We are one people with many different opinions but let’s remember that we ALL stand together.
I understand Da’as Torah a bit differently and I think there are two related points when seeking Torah advice for non halachic issues:
1- the Torah can give a perspective on all areas of life, not just halacha and psak. Hafoch bah vehafoch bah dekula bah. However, that assumes that the Da’as Torah giving advice is also knowledgeable in that area. Da’as Torah is like a calculator- it will give you the right answer but only if you input the right information. If the Rav does not understand financial matters (for example), then his Torah perspective on the subject will be flawed because the “input” is incorrect.
2- I think there are two aspects of Avodas Hashem- objective and subjective. Objective is halacha- we have to follow halacha and we have to follow the psak of our Rabbonim. But so many aspects of our life are not directly and explicitly dictated by halacha- that doesn’t mean we are exempt from trying to do ratzon Hashem in those areas as well. But what ratzon Hashem is in those areas are affected by each person- his personality, situation in life, challenges, family, etc… Two people can be engaged in the same situation, and the Ratzon Hashem will be different. Getting a Torah perspective from Da’as Torah in these areas is crucial, but the Da’as Torah is still lacking the personal subjective side that only each individual person knows. Ultimately, even after getting a Torah perspective, the decision rests on the individual himself how to apply that to his situation and ensure he is doing Ratzon Hashem. No Rav can tell him that.
As an addendum to number 2- I think there is a great risk to relying on Da’as Torah blindly without factoring in our individuality. Oftentimes, when someone who doesn’t consult Rabbonim on serious, complex, and controversial issues… that person will make whatever decision he feels is best, but will usually feel some sort of guilt as there will be consequences to that decision. Nothing is ever black and white, and they will accept accountability for their decision. But I find that oftentimes, when someone blindly follows Daas Torah, they will view every situation as black and white, and they will ignore the repercussions of their decision. Even correct decisions come with consequences, and part of healthy growth is accepting responsibility and accountability for those decisions. I sometimes feel that relying on Daas Torah is a crutch for many people to dump the accountability to the Rav who is advising them, so they can mentally ignore any adverse consequences to their decision.
Avira- I agree with you that the Torah is teaching us that tragedies happen for a reason, and that we have to do the cheshbon hanefesh to correct ourselves in wake of these tragedies. I just find that more often than not, people use that argument as a way to blame others for the tragedy without looking inward. The anti-Zionists blame the Holocaust on the embrace of other Jews to secular nationalism, while the Zionists blame the Holocaust on those who were blind to the national return to our homeland. Each side conviniently washing away blame from themselves.
Seems like that’s what’s happening here too…you and UJM subscribe to a more anti-philosophical hashkafa and surprise! it’s those other pro-philosophy Jews who are to blame for the expulsion. Of course a cheshbon hanefesh has to be done in wake of a tragedy… the Torah says so! But that’s for those other Jews who are actually to blame, right?