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we don’t know any of that, we would only know if we “certify” a specific store ourselves, as someone mentioned earlier, by asking them all of these questions. and regarding trusting the answers we receive, well i guess theres no guarantee there
“However, the bigger problem here anyhow is the potential for the (supposedly – we haven’t established this) kosher muffin being in the oven simultaneously with non kosher food. ”
Ok, well, what about if they just give it to you without any oven use.. I’m pretty sure they just get it off the truck and stick it straight onto those shelves.
I’m not assuming I’m correct, I’m simply trying to generate discussion based on ideas I’ve learned over time.
I think the nature of these forums really don’t translate things so well to a lot of readers. I keep trying to say that i don’t know many of these answers due to how complicated it is, which is why I’m asking for the discussion.
Anyways, i don’t think we will get any further with this concept unless we get some trustworthy source regarding this oven stuff
I’m not good with the actual sources, but it would be good to see them here, if anyone can show them. All i know is i learned these things many times from knowledgeable people. @daasyochid anything on your end? I’m fairly confident in this comparison with the gelatin.. and this entire idea about these substances not being considered food anymore
“You’re okay with a Jew every now and then getting a little treif flavor?”
As previously discussed, there’s straight up Halacha that says burnt substances of any food are no longer considered food. When we’re talking about an oven, that’s the “flavor” you would be getting. And as mentioned previously, even many sfardi poskim say that even gelatin in foods isn’t an issue for this exact reason: it’s simply no longer food, as it’s been broken down so much.
that’s the thing – we don’t know, and we assume it doesn’t, since if you ask them for an item, they give you that item, without mixing it with another item. as we said, if they did that, they would lose customers, as customers would be upset that they mixed up their foods with other foods they may not like.
this is why we can assume that there will not be any “visible trief or basar bcholov” in it, simply for obvious reasons. and if thats the case, then based on what we said above, we can consume a muffin (for example), since we use common sense, and assume that it is not mixed with anything else. obviously people can be machmir, which is seemingly the approach you are taking, which is completely understandable
@justme22 im not sure comparing it with a lethal allergy makes sense here though. There are many situations dealt with in the gemara (or could be elsewhere, but anyways), that talk about an occurrence where someone accidentally had treif, or something along those lines. I recall it not being an issue if the person did not ENJOY it. As far as I understand, it’s assur to ENJOY eating something that is non kosher. Therefore, since someone with allergies does not actually taste whatever substance might have been on that utensil, I don’t see the relevance here. For someone who just does not like the flavor, if they don’t taste it, then there is no issue. I feel that the same thing could be applied for our kashrut situation here, where if we don’t taste it, we therefore don’t enjoy it, and it should therefore not be an issue.
BTW this is just me explaining my logic and thought process, and wanting to discuss it, I am not saying any of this implying that I am right and everyone else is wrong and this is how it is. Clearly it’s not black and white. 🙂
@Milhouse that’s actually a pretty interesting point. I feel that it should be good enough for us
don’t take this the wrong way, but being “skeptical” isn’t really helping me here, as i completely understand why someone would feel skeptical about it. be that as it may, there are even some poseks (mostly sfardi ones, i believe) that say one can eat food made with gelatin, since its no longer actual food (or, no longer the pig), since it has been broken down so much. similarly, in an oven, food that was previously heated inside of it — anything that is left of it, is no longer food. this can therefore be understood in the same manner
@yehudayona i can, but that’s not the point of this thread. i was hoping to get insight on the real reasons a person can or can’t go into any random dunkin and get a muffin
How do i find out? I feel like the workers in that branch don’t actually know this info, rather they just see a truck that comes every morning and food gets stocked
Man, i would really like this to keep being discussed. All i want is a pumpkin muffin but the DD right near my office isn’t certified kosher :/