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Yoshi:
Did your school have a school social worker or guidance counselor that was trained to deal with problems kids have?
I guess that tzniuss is on everyone’s mind these days…not such a bad thing.
Bored At Work- Why do you think the school did not want to get involved?
Yoav Cohen, PhD
New York, NY 10021 US
Phone: (347) 831-0280
Child/Adol/Adults/OC Spectrum
Disorders/BDD/Hoarding/Trichotillo
mania/Home Visits/Sliding
Scale/Support Group/Speaks
Hebrew/ERP/CBT
This Dr.Cohen is an excellent therapist who has alot of experience with eating disorders. He has hours in Nyack too, I think. He uses cognitive therapy and has a lot of success.
What is good is that the schools are more aware of eating disorders than they were several years ago. they are trying to speak to the girls about eating healthy and taking care of themselves. For those girls with anorexia or bulemia, they are speaking with the girls and parents and trying to find apropriate nutritionists and therapists for them. While eating disorders are common in the United States even among goyim, the rate is higher among the orthodox because of the shidduch pressure.
If anyone who is reading this has an eating disorder or knows of someone who does have one, they should reach out for help and go to a therapist, because you deserve to live a long and healthy life. May noone know of this very scary disease. if anyone else knows of good therapists for eating disorders, please post it here.
Pashuta Yid wrote a very powerful thing: “We must stop talking about the terrible aveirah of loshon hora, and then proceed to viciously attack every other group “lshem shomayim”. Don’t you think kids see through this total hypocracy and sheker?” My kid was very turned off by some principals and teachers because she felt they were hypocrats. Many teens are almost allergic to this kind of thing. As far as the dress code thing, I don’t think it is that simple. Proof being that even kids from cool families go off the derech, and they were allowed to wear more with it stuff. But when the child has a bad experience with the school and the teachers, they don’t want to be a part of the frummy world, they are too hurt and angry. Well, I don’t think there is just one reason why a kid goes OTD, there are many things involved.
Hmmmm….those girls who are worried about wearing a seat belt and accentuating her assets should sit in the back seat preferably with a sheet over her head (for modesty reasons).
I once went on a date and the boy told me that for tznius reasons he does not open the door for women. While I respected his way of doing things, I knew that this was not the way I was raised, and the boy was not for me for other reasons in the end. My husband opened the door for me when we were dating and he still does (Bli ayin horah).
Oh…and I also feel that it is not tznius to compliment the girl on her clothing, unless you are engaged. Not a psak, but just my opinion.
This is also an issue for those of us who wear maternity clothing. As the baby grows (and mommy too!) the clothing does not and everything becomes super tight. So one can tell if you have an inny or an outy belly button, and other protrusions become very obvious. I think some ladies don’t realize this, especiallly when they are wearing the very stylish lycra tops. As one choshuv rebbitzen said “you can practically see the baby” and she urged women to not wear these very tight styles.
just some kids making crank calls. do you have caller ID? Next time they call tell them you are the police department and watch them hang up fast!
Feif Un:
You are correct. Often I read stories of Gedolim that treated their Talmidim like their own children. I am glad that your mother always made sure the girl had another school to go to first. Because if a child is asked to leave a school mid year, no other school wants to take them, it is horrible and I wish this on noone.
Levi 123:
I wasted two years of my life crying and being angry at my daughters’ principals. I realize that she was only capable of dealing with her perfect little students. Girls with “issues” as she called it, did not belong in her highness’ school. It is sad that many girls school do not have any kind of social worker or therapist to speak with a girl who is going through something, as the principals and teachers do not have the training to deal with this, so they just kick the kid out. The schools are very competitive, and they want the reputation of having the smartest and best girls who have no “problems”.
lkaufman:
do you know of a support group for parent of Off the Derech kids? I find it helpful to talk to other parents who have a kid like this, otherwise they can’t really understand.
Milchig….
Unfortunately, the style nowadays is THE TIGHTER THE BETTER. This includes maternaty clothing (the ladies look like beached whales). The women want to draw attention to themselves, and they are succeeding, by the looks they are getting from the appreciative men folk. It’s a terrible situation, and I consider myself a pretty with it kind of person (I wear Denim and I am not chassidish). It is very sad.
All we can do is to focus on ourselves and our own tznius and our avodah to Hashem, and to daven for moshiach to come.
I work out in an only women’s gym, it gets very warm so I do not dress in a lot of clothing. Only women are at this gym, so it is muttar for me in order to be comfortable. But very often I am on the treadmill and this lovely chosheva lady gets on the treadmill next to me and is saying Tehillim. I asked her if it was okay for her to daven while I am not tznius, she didn’t know the answer. I do not daven on the treadmill because I personally don’t feel it is the proper atmosphere with ladies dressed not tznius and the TV on everywhere. But I don’t know the actual halacha and if anyone knows, can they post it here?
micr63:
Have you ever heard of Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz? The reason I am thinking of him is because he recently wrote on his site about kids switching schools. He also just put out this book on parenting. You can google him or Project Yes. Oiy, your kid is 16, such a hard age! Hang on, it will get better, G-d willing. Just be very VERY patient.
Matisyahu, lkaufman wrote that seminary was suggested to the girl. She does not want to go. Teen girls at risk view seminary as a nunnery, and it is hard to change their opinion. You can’t exactly tie them up and throw them in there! On the other hand, they can be going to college and make something of themselves. There are hillel programs at most colleges, hopefully she will get involved with that. And these kids need structure that going to school can give them, less time for hanging out and going to bad places…
I used to feel the same as matisyahu but now that I have a child like this it has made me change the way I feel. And if a parent looks down at their kid because she is being productive and going to college he or she is missing out on an important part of their relationship with their child. You can and should be proud of the good and productive things the kid is doing, not just being critical of the bad. Or else the kid feels that nothing I do is right in these frummies eyes unless I am frum, well I’ll show them!!! Having a kid at risk is a very humbling experience! Sorry I am posting so much, hope this helped lkaufman.
I never went to MASK, but I did get help from project YES. My husband and I got free advise and counseling, and my other children got big brothers and sisters to take them out and talk to them. I actually own a tape in which Rov Shmuel Kamenetzky answers the question of whether or not to keep a child at risk home. I will try to listen to it again and quote his answer acurately, as it’s been a while since I listened to it.
lkaufman, from the way you write I can tell you are a very good person, and you will IY”H have nachas from your child, just hang on and be very patient, it takes time and these kids need love and patience to work things through. LOTS OF LOVE, I cannot stress this enough. and acceptance. Benzy 18 also wrote many things that made sense to me.
That is wonderful that your daughter is going to college and plans on going on Birthrite. There are many parents of off the Derech teens that wish for that, as they watch their teens destroy themselves with drugs, alchohol, sex, and cutting. Show your daughter that you are proud of her and what she is doing positive in her life. Try to maintain a close relationship with her. As far as finding a Rov that will show her the beauty of being frum, is your daughter interested in speaking with a Rov? Is she able to even listen to his answers? A Rov can speak all day with these kids, but if their ears are not open and receptive, it is very difficult. It is very sad. But Boruch Hashem she is alive, and healthy, and young. keep being optimistic and above all very patient. I suffer with you, I’ve got one also….
Would your daughter be interested in going to Israel, I have heard of a program that works with off the derech girls.
I am not from Lakewood, but I perhaps if a strong group of girls and their parents got together and gave support to the new schools opening up, these schools would take off and take in the girls who don’t have schools. The yeshivos in frum neighborhoods are very competitive to get into, and the girls don’t want to go to the new ones. It is a very hard situation but I feel it is up to the PARENTS and the Rabbonim to support the new schools by sending THEIR OWN CHILDREN over there, and not just to give sympathy to those who didn’t get accepted. My family had a hard time with this whole parsha, it is very difficult. In the end, I sent to the new school and was very happy with the results, Boruch Hashem.