sechel83

Chabad won media maybe.
Anti chabad won the mishpacha and Yated neeman. So?

@lemayseh
Also includes Rav Bridewitz who gave a haskama to a Sefer about how the rebbe is still moshiach. See shmo shel moshiach

@right jew. thanks for the reference. looks like great videos,
btw there is a new book published trying to explain The Torah Philosophy of the Lubavitcher Rebbe
written by a Yeshiva University Rabbi called “Engaging the Essence”
(if you read his book honestly maybe you’ll understand what it means Atzmus U’mehus enclothed in a body)

@damoshe. i didn’t write the story, i copied from a website that copied from making of a gadol.

Just to mention R’ schneur kotlers connection to chabad:
What was the Rebbe Rayatz and the Rebbe‘s involvement in the Shiduch of Rabbi Shneur Kotler? How did the Rebbe help Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi win the Din Torah against Rabbi Aharon Kotler?
It’s from the book making of a gadol

The following story was told over by Rabbi Moshe Ashkenazi OBM, member of Agudas Chassidei Chabad in Israel, and son of Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi OBM, a Chabad Chossid and the Rov of Shanghai:

In 1940, as a Bochur, Rabbi Shneur Kotler fled Poland for Vilna, the capital of Lithuania, where many of the Non-Chassidic Yeshivos relocated due to the World War which began. In Vilna, he became engaged to Rischel Friedman, daughter of Rabbi Malkiel Friedman of Kovno.

A short while later, his grandfather, Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer sent the young Shneur a visa to enter Mandatory Palestine, which saved his life, while his bride escaped to Shanghai, a haven for many European Jews who escaped the war horrors and were saved.

During her stay in Shanghai, Rischel contracted the deadly Typhus disease, which threatened her life, and was placed in isolation, where she was expected to die. However, Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi and his wife didn’t give up hope, and took the young girl under their wing, caring for all her needs, and ensuring her recovery from the deadly disease. Afterwards, she dedicated herself to helping Chabad Bochurim in Shanghai, serving as the translator for the doctors who did not speak Yiddish or Polish, translating what the Bochurim told the doctors, and what the doctors ordered the Bochurim.

The next years were filled with worries about her family left behind in Europe, and she looked forward to meeting

During the war, Rischel looked forward to meeting her groom, Rabbi Shneur Kotler, who was then in Israel. In 1946, after the war ended, and the first chance of meeting her groom came about, Rischel was smuggled in a suitcase aboard a ship to the USA, where she hoped to meet her groom and get married. During the trip she was sick, and Gershon Chanowitz, one of the Chabad Bochurim she helped, ensured she was taken care of, so she can recover.

However, one person was not happy with this arrangement; the father of the groom, Rabbi Aharon Kotler, was vehemently opposed to the Shiduch, claiming that the Typhus will cause her to die young and not be able to have children; he therefore demanded that the girl forgive her Chosson and cancel the engagement.

Rischel was devastated, and sent a message that since the Chosson is still in favor of the Shiduch, she will only cancel the Shiduch if Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi will approve.

While this was going on, Rabbi Aharon Kotler called Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi to a Din Torah, asking for the funds that Rabbi Ashkenazi used for Chabad students during the war, and demanding he pay it back. The background to this story:
As a result of the pending Din Torah, and the Shiduch crisis, Rabbi Ashkenazi went into Yechidus to the Frierdiker Rebbe and asked him what to do about these two issues. The Frierdiker Rebbe answered that he should consult with the Rebbe (then known as the “Ramash”) and do as he says.

The Ramash told Rabbi Asheknazi that he should stand strong to ensure the Shiduch takes place, saying that since they made Halachic T’naim, they have to follow through, and added that he doesn’t see a reason that she should be barren or die early. The Ramash also told him, that he should push off the Din Torah until after the wedding, and then he should claim that since he risked his life for getting the money, he was entitled to a percentage, and that this percentage he gave to Chabad Bochurim; he added that he should ask the Beis Din to determine the amount.

Rabbi Ashkenazi did as he was told, and after much convincing and even arranging a nice-sized dowry, he was able to convince Rabbi Aharon Kotler to allow his son, Shneur to marry Rischel.

After the wedding, Rabbi Ashkenazi went into Yechidus to the Rebbe Rayatz, and reported his conversation with the Ramash and the wedding. The Rebbe Rayatz spent a long time asking questions about the wedding, demanding to know every detail, including who was present, who spoke, what was served, etc. and thanked him profusely for his help.

After the wedding, when the Din Torah took place, Rabbi Ashkenazi presented his claims to the Beis Din, as ordered by the Rebbe, and the Beis Din found that Rabbi Aharon Kotler owes money to Rabbi Ashkenazi! Rabbi Ashkenazi replied, that he wants that the balance should be given to the young couple as dowry, and asked the Beis Din to ensure that it was fulfilled.

During the years that passed, Mrs. Rischel Kotler kept a connection with Rabbi & Mrs. Meir Ashkenazi, referring to them as her “parents,” and instructed her children to respect them and keep a friendship. When it was time for her son, Rabbi Yitzchok Shraga Kotler to get married, he married Miriam, granddaughter of Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi.

@da correct if you reject a clear gemarah (I e. If you’re an apikores) then yes, your right!

Gimmel tamuz is coming: the last maamer the rebbe gave out speaks about the avoda that needs to be in America, that even though a jew can be comfortable physically and spiritually to the ultimate (don’t know anyone holding there) , he needs to be broken from the fact that another jew is not on this level , 30 yrs later, let’s wake up!!!!

This sounds like “my tatty is stronger than your tatty”

@da
1) in yeshiva in chabad they have sefer learning gemarah for 7 hours.
2) sichos are also Torah – many of them are pilpulim in gemarah – so it’s the same thing as learning a reb chain or a ketzos which you would consider learning gemarah. And the Rashi ones or chassidus ones are also Torah. Anything wrong with learning Chumash Rashi and meforshim.
3) chassidus is Torah, just because you don’t hold of learning it, we go like shitas chabad, and it’s even paskened in shulchan aruch that one should learn kabalah, penimius hatorah. The baal hatanya writes one should learn 1 third of the day penimius hatorah. (It’s in likutai Torah, it’s referenced in shulchan aruch harav hilchos Talmud Torah)
4) first of all the sugar of nisim is a sugya in chassidus and kabalah. See hachodesh 5666 – of the the deepest concepts in chassidus. People spend a year learning this sugya or more. 2nd of all – I heard 2 litvaks discussing who is a bigger gadol reb Moshe of reb shlome zalman. So….. Point?
5) I would actually like to have a gemarah discussion with you and see your level of learning, start a new thread, whatever sugya you want.

It’s very simple, the event is to raise money, אם אין קמח אין תורה
No music, no event (or a tiny event in a bais medrash in Lakewood that may raise 1% of the funds needed)

@da checked up the Toldos Yakov Yosef on Chukas, it’s not clear to me what he is referring to, but he mentions it in many places (I saw in the מפתח,) and they bring in the sources from kisvai arizal פרי עץ חיים פרק ו,
So why don’t you learn the arizal? You don’t hold of arizal?
How did you understand the idea of a tzadik lowering himself into the levels of tumah? And what is your issue with that?

@chaim could be maybe I’ll watch the adirai hatorah speeches and see what they are saying and tell you what I think about it .
I definitely agree with you that many chassidim focus too much on schar and onesh, I’m not sure where it comes from. Maybe the lack of learning chassidus.

@da
It’s hard to discuss rumors or quotes that I don’t see the context
Can you bring me where you get this quote from “But that’s not what the Besht taught – he taught that the tzaddik has to lower himself into realms of tumah in order to lift others out.”
To say the baal shem tov changed the mesorahs 1) you need to. Point out an example and show how it’s a new idea not mentioned in any proceeding seforim (otherwise you can’t claim it’s new) 2) even if the baal shem tov taught an idea which you say was never practiced before, 1) what’s the issue of not following mesorahs (unless you claim it’s AGAINST Torah) 2) the baal shem tov new more Torah than me and I’m sure he had his mekoros, he also had talmidim geonim adirim who accepted his ways and did not attack him for changing mesorah.
The gra did not change mesorah?? 1) he argues with shulchan aruch??!!
What exactly is mesorah in the first place? I need to follow everything exactly the way my father did? What if my father got a heter to be makil in something, I can’t be machmir? How in the world should I know everything what to do just by growing up in my father’s house for 20 yrs or less? What if my father was not the biggest tzadik, I should follow him? What about all the new things happening in the world – internet, radio, technology, etc?

More about connecting to a tzadik and receiving from him higher understanding and revelations in g-dliness see עמק המלך הקדמה שלישית פרק ג-ה
משנת חסידים מס’ היחודים
Do you agree with these seforim or you argue with them too?

@Damoshe I didn’t write that arguing is apikores, I wrote that saying a talmid chachams teachings are preposterous is apikores. (It’s a clear gemarah, if you can’t find it, then for sure you have no business making fun of teachings of a talmid chachams)
The gra may have argued with CERTAIN teachings, that doesn’t give you the right to make fun of things they say when you have no proof.
Can you bring exactly what the gra called apikores?
You know they agree at least on one thing – zmanim, who said he argued on עיבור נשמות – כתבי ארי
You know the gemarah says 4 died בעטיו של נחש – they had no sin. Is that also apikores?

@damoshe:
“Sechel: the idea that a person can’t get to higher levels on their own without a Rebbe lifting them up in preposterous. It’s one of the main issues I have with chassidus.”
1) this idea is mentioned in Tanya perek 14 by the end, so just putting it clean that’s it’s an old idea.
2) I see here and before too, that you make fun of teachings of the baal hatanya or the baal shem tov, you really think you have better comments sences than them?!
If you would say you follow the opinion of I.e. nefesh hachaim that one should not focus as much as chassidim on kavana, hachanos, or not contemplating yichuda ilaah rather only yichuda tataa (as he writes in שער ב), ok, I understand you,
But how can you – by yourself – decide that teachings of the baal shem tov or the baal hatanya (who I’m sure you know were baki in kol hatorah kula – niglah, and nistar) is preposterous?!?
I think that’s called an apikores!!

From the first Mishnah in brachos read simply, one would think that when he reads krias Shima by maariv he fullfils the mitzvah. Rashi comes and says that “we” who daven early are not fulfilling the mitzvah rather we are yotze with krias shma sheal hamita. So why do we read shma by maariv, he brings a yerushalmi that explains – to stand up to davening – shmoneh esre – from divrai Torah. Tosfos has many questions on Rashi and explains different.
Point being is that everyone realizes that you can’t conclude a halacha from learning a Mishnah simply.
How much more so with chassidus which is penimius hatorah,
(Those who think chassidus is just a dress code or a “matzav” to feel a part of, Does it make sense to say the baal hatanya or kedushas Levi or the hundreds of the other chavraya kadisha went to the mazritcher magid to learn a dress code??!!)

Some examples for the baal shem tov about doing something good with a self motive or feeling
כשמתענה אדם אפילו משבת לשבת, ויהיה לו פניה אפילו קטנה, שיאמר בלבו שהוא עושה דבר גדול שעינה את עצמו כ”כ הרבה, ויזדכך מאד בזה, זה התענית בא לסט”א. רק יחשוב בלבו, מה מעשי נחשבים נגד עבודת המלאכים שעבודתם בתמידות להש”י, ואני טפה סרוחה וסופי לעפר.

המהלך בדרך יחידי <ושונה ומפסיק ממשנתו כו’, קשה דהל”ל ומפסיק ממשנתו והוה ידעינן דהיה שונה, עוד קשה מעלה עליו הכתוב ולא מפרש איזה כתוב.
וי”ל> הפי’, <כי ה>הולך בדרך הישר, ואפילו הכי הוא יחידי שאינו דבוק בהשי”ת, ושונה ומפסיק ממשנתו, ר”ל מפסיק א”ע מהש”י מחמת משנתו, דהיינו שבאה לו גדלות והתפארות מחמת משנתו <שסובר שהוא משנתו שלו>, ואומר מה נאה אילן זה, ועל עצמו אומר כן בלבו, כמ”ש כי האדם עץ השדה, <ואומר דהוא אלנא די רבא ותקיף>, ומה נאה ניר זה, כמ”ש נירו לכם ניר, <פי’ שאומר שמכין לעצמו חלק לעוה”ב ע”י משנתו>, מעלה עליו הכתוב <פי’ כתוב שנ’ תמים תהיה עם ה’ אלקיך, פי’ אפי’ כשתעסוק בתורה שנאמר בה תורת ה’ תמימה, וז”ש תמים תהיה, אפילו בעסק התורה תהיה עם ה’ אלקיך, ולא תימא הלא התורה ממילא נקרא תורת ה’, וז”ש מעלה עליו הכתוב הזה, שכולל כל התורה>, כאלו מתחייב בנפשו.

Here we see the chassidus approach of what is kedusha – bitul – not feeling self, and what is kelipa – feeling self.
This is explained in Tanya at length (see I.e. perek 6 and 35)

@chaim87
Litvaks mesorah is from the gra? All litvaks I know never learned the first 3 shaarim of nefesh hachaim, at most they learned shaarim 4. They didn’t either learn any kabala seforim from the gra. The gra writes that you should educate even children not to serve hashem for reward – gan Eden and punishment – gehenom.
Today’s “yeshivish” Jews have no connection to the ways of the gra,
From nefesh hachaim shaar 3 perek 8
מטעם שודאי ראוי להאדם הישר חכם לבב הקבוע כל הימים בת”ת ומצות אשר נאמנה את אל רוחו לידע מציאות זה הענין הנורא דרך כלל שאדון יחיד ית”ש מלא את כל ואין עוד מלבדו ית’ להלהיב מזה טוהר קדושת מחשבתו לעבודת התפלה לכוין לבו באימה ויראה ורתת למקום הוא מקומו של עולם. (ומקומו של עולם הוא הוא כוונת ענין הצמצום. והוא מבואר כנ”ל)
Could be litvaks daven long but the focus is on the simple meaning of the words, the focus of chassidim is in addition to contemplate before davening on גדלות הקל – אחדות ה’ and to arouse love for hashem. And not to focus on our needs during davening as the Zohar writes against that (brought also in nefesh hachaim shaar 2)
Chassidus came to awaken Jews to serve hashem with feelings of love and fear, all the actions – hidurim – came out from it,
Chitzonius vs pnimius,
Today could be many chassidim don’t work on פנימיות and not either חיצוניות, or only chitzonius. and could be many litvaks work on חיצוניות – being careful in halacha, chumros etc. That’s not chassidus, chassidus is penimius.
Shtreimal is not even a chassidus thing,
Kedusha is chassidus the focus was on davening which automatically kept a person away from the opposite of kedusha – see likutai Torah, from Zohar. Screaming about shmiras enayim is not the derech of chassidus, and does not accomplish anything.

רמב״ם הלכות קריאת שמע פרק א

הלכה יג
עריכה
הקורא אחר שלוש שעות ביום, אפילו היה אנוס – לא יצא ידי חובת קריאת שמע בעונתו, אלא הרי הוא כקורא בתורה. ומברך לפניה ולאחריה כל היום, אפילו איחר וקרא אחר שלוש שעות

Birchos krias shma the rambam holds one can say them the whole day.
Shmoneh esre – פרישה
והוא דחוק ורחוק בעיני לומר דלאחר חצות יהא דינו כברכה לבטלה מדאמר בגמרא כל היום מצלי ואזיל ויהבי ליה שכר תפילה דרחמי וגם ר’ יוחנן אמר הלואי שיתפלל אדם כל היום כולו ונהי דלהרי”ף איירי בתורת נדבה ולרב האי איירי באם יכול לחדש בה וכמו שכתב רבינו בסימן ק”ז (עמ’ שצז – שצח) מכל מקום הא איכא תקנה על ידי נדבה להרי”ף ו[ל]הרא”ש משום גזירה דילמא לא יכוין הוא דאסור הא מדינא מותר לכן נ”ל פשוט כמו שכתב ב”י באוקימתא קמייתא דעד חצות שכתב רבינו לאו דוקא וגם הרי”ף והרא”ש לא הזכירו חצות ולא נקט חצות אלא משום דסמיך דמחצות ואילך הגיע זמן מנחה ואז יש לו דין אחר וכמו שכתבתי גם כן בדרישה וסבירא ליה להרמב”ם ורבינו דאפילו עבר במזיד ולא התפלל מתפלל כל היום ושכר תפלה דרחמי מכל מקום אית ליה אלא שבאם טעה ולא התפלל קודם חצות מתפלל אחר חצות אחר תפילת מנחה ואז יש לו שכר גדול גם לתפלת שחרית כאילו התפלל בזמנו כי מאחר שאז גם כן זמן תפילה והוא עסק בתפילה והתפלל מנחה בזמנו יש לו לתפילת שחרית אז תשלומין ושכר כאילו התפלל אותו בשחרית בזמנו מאחר שטעה או אנוס ולא התפלל שחרית ומשום הכי הזכירו הגמרא והפוסקים לשון תשלומין בזה שאם לא היה לו שכר תפילה בזמנו לא היו אומרים שמשלים את התפילה הקדומה לה. אבל אם עבר במזיד ולא התפלל שחרית בזמנה תו לא הוי לה תשלומין אחר תפילת מנחה ומכל מקום אמרו דיש לו שכר תפילה דרחמי וכמו שכתב רבינו בסימן ק”ח (עמ’ תג) והיינו בשכר תפילה שלא בזמנה ודוק היטב ותמצא חילוק זה שהוא אמת ונכון על פי הדין:
Tanya discussion I don’t even remember how we got into it. And what the argument is about.

@Yankel berel you’re Tanya comment I didn’t understand,
Birchos krias shma and shmone esre – see Mishnah brurah where he says it’s a bracha livatala, he writes according to many poskim, the other poskim hold it’s not, see there biur halacha. (As if chabad is the only ones who daven after chatzos, I think the only people who don’t is litvaks, (probably cuz they are too lazy to daven, so they use this excuse)

“After he says that one is obligated to simultaneously love and hate someone who is a sinner , Tanya goes on to ask on himself if so whats pshat in tahlit sin’ah seneitim which is quoted in masehta shabbat as requiring unqualified hate ?
Whereupon Tanya answers that this pasuk and maamar hazal are talking about an apikores who one is required to hate unreservedly.”
Complete distortion. He is explaining dovid hamelechs behavior, not giving guidance to people who can every jew who does something different than them an apikores or min.
Even if you want to follow dovid hamelechs ways, it’s only for minim and apikorsim, go open up a shulchan aruch and he what classifies as that, and again the chafetz chaim says I doesn’t apply to today’s Jews, as well as the rambam and chazon ish .

@always. i did not understand your comment. but btw all over gemara it quotes a mishnah or braisa from a whole mesechta, now most people can understand rambam like the rambam himself writes in his hakdama, i just wrote, even if someone dosent understand a halacha or a perek, he’s not lost for the next week as in a long sugya in gemara.
needless to say one should learn gemara, but not everyone can learn a blat a day properly.
from the introduction of the rambam to mishnah torah:
At this time, we have been beset by additional difficulties, everyone feels [financial] pressure, the wisdom of our Sages has become lost, and the comprehension of our men of understanding has become hidden. Therefore, those explanations, laws, and replies which the Geonim composed and considered to be fully explained material have become difficult to grasp in our age, and only a select few comprehend these matters in the proper way. Needless to say, [there is confusion] with regard to the Talmud itself – both the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds – the Sifra, the Sifre, and the Tosefta, for they require a breadth of knowledge, a spirit of wisdom, and much time, for appreciating the proper path regarding what is permitted and forbidden, and the other laws of the Torah.
Therefore, I girded my loins – I, Moses, the son of Maimon, of Spain. I relied upon the Rock, blessed be He. I contemplated all these texts and sought to compose [a work which would include the conclusions] derived from all these texts regarding the forbidden and the permitted, the impure and the pure, and the remainder of the Torah’s laws, all in clear and concise terms, so that the entire Oral Law could be organized in each person’s mouth without questions or objections. Instead of [arguments], this one claiming such and another such, [this text will allow for] clear and correct statements based on the judgments that result from all the texts and explanations mentioned above, from the days of Rabbenu Hakadosh until the present.
[This will make it possible] for all the laws to be revealed to both those of lesser stature and those of greater stature, regarding every single mitzvah, and also all the practices that were ordained by the Sages and the Prophets. To summarize: [The intent of this text is] that a person will not need another text at all with regard to any Jewish law. Rather, this text will be a compilation of the entire Oral Law, including also the ordinances, customs, and decrees that were enacted from the time of Moses, our teacher, until the completion of the Talmud, as were explained by the Geonim in the texts they composed after the Talmud. Therefore, I have called this text, Mishneh Torah [“the second to the Torah,” with the intent that] a person should first study the Written Law, and then study this text and comprehend the entire Oral Law from it, without having to study any other text between the two.

to avira : copy paste from Do you know anyone, notably a rov, that shares your opinion on this?

in chabad chassidus its explained that lag beomer being the yom hilulah of rashbi, on that day he taught many things he never taught before that day, (because) that the final day of a righteous person’s earthly life marks the point at which all their deeds, teachings and work achieve their culminating perfection and the zenith of their impact upon our lives. So each Lag BaOmer, we celebrate Rabbi Shimon’s life and the revelation of the esoteric soul of Torah.
penimius hatorah is a revelation of penemius atik – simple put, its a revelation of hashem’s light – or ein sof, (niglah is the torah the way it comes down to this world) when that light is revealed there are many supernatural things, thats why rashbi did wonders simply by saying torah (unlike other tanaim needed to daven) thats why on such a day, the rebbes – the neshama of rashbi and teachers of his torah – were able to give brachos for children in a sprcial way. see more about this in all the maamarim of lag beomer

מ”מ
שו”ת צמח צדק או”ח סימן ג
פסקי תשובות סימן פט
I didn’t write the מ”מ before because I was writing from memory and did not have a chance to check it up
Piskai tshuvos I can’t find the Sefer to reference the exact page.

When chazal say כל מי שהוא פטור מדבר ועושהו נקרא הדיוט.
It means idiot, הדיוט comes from a Greek word. Here we see this idea from the rambam, he says שוטה and quotes this חז”ל about הדיוט

חסיד שוטה – אמרו בתלמוד שעניינו ההגזמה בזהירות ובדקדוק עד שנמאס בעיני בני אדם ועושה מעשים שאינו חייב בהם, וכאילו אמר שוטה בחסידותו. ואמרו בגמרא שבת ירושלמי: כל מי שהוא פטור מדבר ועושהו נקרא הדיוט.

— פירוש המשניות סוטה פרק ג’, משנה ג
Kosher and happy pesach