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סנחריב בלבל את האומות
I’m not going to comment on the substance (or perhaps more aptly, the lack thereof) being discussed here. I just want to make a point that Sinas Chinom and Pirud HaLevovos is not going to bring Moshiach any closer, regardless if you think that our (Chabad Lubavitch) derech is wrong. You don’t need to fully understand everything we do, and you are most welcome to vehemently disagree – in the appropriate place and time, and in a respectful manner.
You may believe us to be Kofrim, and you are sincerely trying to find a way to be Matzdik our beliefs – know that enough Rabbonim and Poskei HaDor do respect us, and surely if we really were Kofrim would’ve long disassociated themselves from our midst. You can still have questions, but have the humility to recognize that you are just a simple Yid, and rely on the actions of the Gedolei Olam that apparently know a little better. I’m not going to specify people, because that will just further the disagreement, but if you seek, you shall find.
Today is the tenth Yahrtzait of the Kedoshim of Mumbai, may Hashem avenge their blood. Remember and recall how Klal Yisrael truly came together during that tragic and bitter time, without denigrating one another, and slandering others as Kofrim R”L. Go back and look at what the Poskei and Manhigei HaDor said about them, and about Lubavitch in general at that sad time. It shouldn’t have to take an orphaned child crying “Ima! Ima!” to bring us together, but unfortunately, too often it does.
U’mesaymim B’tov.
Ah Gutten Chodesh to all.
I’m no Man Deomar in these matters, and I’m not married yet, but from what I do know, as long as done in an Eidel way, in accordance with Halacha, it’s a good thing. I refer to Chabad Shlucha to answer further questions about this, as it’s above my pay grade, and she’s far more qualified than me in this arena.
I’m really starting to like Neville 2.0. Keep it up!
Laskern:
“I heard once that only a pasul sefer torah wears a gartel on the outside.”
The Frierdiker Rebbe (1880 – 1950) once said regarding why Lubavitcher Bochurim don’t wear a Gartel over their jacket, (we do wear one before marriage, but under the shirt) “מיינע בחורים זיינען נישט פסול’ע ספרי תורה” – My Bochurim aren’t Posul Sifrei Torah.Knaidelach:
Indeed it seems many Chassidim did wear their Tallis Koton over their shirts, but all I’m saying is that a nice Svoroh isn’t necessarily the actual reason. It may very well be, but you haven’t brought anything convincing to make me believe it.To reiterate, I think that most Lubavitchers would recognize that due to our (perhaps subconscious) way of thinking, we in a way find a untucked shirt to be more in line with the “Tziyur” of a real Chassid from Lubavitch, or Nevel, or perhaps Dokshitz. It very much goes with the Kasket, and the “L’chatchila Ariber” attitude in which we pride ourselves. This may make no sense to many readers, but I think this expresses the unspoken feelings of many Chassidim. Perhaps another Lubavitcher can back me up here.
Edy:
We don’t cut our beards for 2 reasons.
1. Halacha.
The Tzemach Tzedek considers it to be an Issur Deoraysa, for two reasons, a: השחתה (destroying the beard) b: לא ילבש גבר not dressing as a woman. The Minchas Elazar also holds it to be an Issur Deoraysa.
2. Kabbalah.
The beard is יג תיקוני דיקנא, corresponding to the Yud Gimmel Midos HaRachamim. The AriZal says that the beard should not be cut (excluding the mustache) for it draws down שפע and Brocha from above. The same AriZal that instructed not to cut the beard in the very same place instructs to cut the peyos short so they don’t mix with the beard.
-Taamei HaMitzvos, Kedoshim.Knaidelach:
I’ve heard that Svoroh once before, from a Litvishe Bochur actually, it sounds nice, but I don’t think it’s correct. Also, Tzitzis can stay perfectly straight tucked in as well.
Chabad Shlucha:
Thanks for the endorsement, it’s not often you agree with me:)
Chabad Shlucha:
“Sechel youre addressing from your perspective and circles and I’m addressing from the discussions I’ve heard between my father and brothers who were in Yeshiva and my husband and brother in law who is a shliach in Yeshiva… There is that way of thinking or all bochurim would just tuck in.”I’m not saying that all older Bochurim tuck in, many in fact don’t. What I’m saying is that most younger Bochurim don’t tuck in because they simply don’t care that much about their appearance. I used to only tuck in once a week – on Fridays during Mivtzoim. Now, I try to usually be tucked in whenever I go down the street, or outside of my dorm. I recall from my days in Zal (Yeshiva Gedolah, 17-20) we would laugh at the older Bochurim who were learning Smicha who were more often than not tucked in. Until I got to that stage myself, and began tucking in more frequently too.
Certain Mashpiim always are untucked and unkempt, that is not at all B’shittah, rather they are the kinds of people to whom Gashmiyus simply doesn’t matter, and they’re completely oblivious to it.
Regarding ties, no self respecting Bochur would ever wear a tie, save for 2 occasions, at a wedding (of a sibling) or while on Merkos Shlichus, and even then it’s not as frequent as in past years. Shluchim will almost always wear a tie on Shabbos, and many during the week as well.
I can count on one hand the amount of times I wore a tie during the past year, once at a wedding, another time on Pesach when making a Seder in a remote community.To Joseph:
We wear out peyos cut short, some until the bottom of the ear, some until the bone about halfway. There are several Chassidim who do put their peyos behind the ear, but that’s very uncommon. Most people with a beard will cut their peyos a little shorter so it doesn’t mix with the beard, because Al pi kaboloh they shouldn’t mix.I haven’t piped up in a long while, but I’m back now. Interesting topic.
Neville makes some good points, much of it is quite accurate. I think our Levush isn’t “B’shittah” at all, rather the Shitta is specifically not to focus on Levush or Chitzoniyus in general, therefore our Levush sort of just grew out of the circumstances and dress of the time. In Russia, the Chassidim would wear a jacket, normally a long one, and a simple Kasket. Nobody, other than Rabbonim wore hats. And Shtreimelach were reserved for the Rebbeim. The Mitteler Rebbe and the Tzemach Tzedek (2nd and 3rd Rebbeim) wore a triangular pointed hat, referred to as a “Kolpik” by some Polish and Galician Chassidim.Today we wear what was the traditional dress code of the regular American when the Chassidim first arrived ashore in New York, a jacket and fedora, not always a black one, brown and grey were common too. The Rebbe as well wore such a Levush precisely because he wasn’t yet the Rebbe until 1951, and wanted to be regarded as a regular Chassid, nobody special. What the Rebbe did change upon accepting the mantle of Nessius was that he began to wear a Kapote instead of a regular jacket.
There were certain Chassidim who arrived from Russia in the 70s and 80s, who changed their Kastet for a fedora, and the Rebbe instructed them to switch back to the Kasket. (Possibly the famed Chassid and Mashpia Reb Mendel Futerfas, among others).
What ChabadShlucha wrote:
“Some of our boys serving as bochurim shluchim in yeshivos and thus are role models for the bochurim will prefer the not tucked in shirt to convey that bochurim should not obsess with their appearance.”
As a former Bochur Shliach, I can attest that I have never heard of such a thing. Ironically, the year of Shlichus (usually around 21) I often when Bochurim start to dress in a more mesudar manner, usually tucking their shirts in. I personally was lazy with tucking in my shirt, and really only began to pay attention to it during my year of Shlichus. Almost all Yungerlait and older Bochurim will be usually tucked in.
I have more to add, but for now, Ah Gut Shabbos to all!
Reform and Conservative conversion has been a problem for many years, in Eretz Yisroel and abroad.
For years, the Lubavitcher Rebbe zy”a campaigned for Giyur Kehalacha to be the only recognized form of Giyur in EY, and Lubavitcher Rabbonim took to the radio waves and newspapers the world over decrying non Halachic conversions.
Sadly, some Chareidishe elements in EY opposed those efforts, leading to the problems with the Russians today, that many of them who weren’t Jewish were allowed to immigrate to EY, and subsequently married Jewish Israelis.
In my work as a Lubavitcher traveling the world on Shlichus, too often do I come across reform or conservative converts who have been accepted as part of their local Jewish communities, and it’s heart breaking to tell them that they aren’t considered Jewish according to Halacha. (Not always is it appropriate or necessary to inform them…)
Today, we have an (arguably) even bigger problem than reform and Conservative – the so called “Open Orthodox”, who’s converts can proudly claim to have undergone an orthodox conversion, while in all likelihood (I’m no expert, but I imagine in almost all cases) aren’t Halachically Jewish.
Also, we won’t necessarily know when Moshiach comes if someone is now a Mamzer, as the Rambam writes:
ואינו בא לא לטהר הטמא ולא לטמא הטהור, ולא לפסול אנשים שהם בחזקת כשרות ולא להכשיר מי שהוחזקו פסולין אלא לשום שלום בעולם שנאמר והשיב לב אבות על בנים
Melochim, 12:2.
@Gadol,
I’m not sure I understand the question.It’s not so easy for everyone. There are many different minhagim and Chumros. For example, in Lubavitch, we don’t eat Gebrokts, only use hand made shmurah matza (obviously) don’t use many spices and herbs, only eat peeled fruit and vegetables, anything that can’t be peeled isn’t used, and we don’t buy any processed foods, with the exception of Matzah, Wine, Salt, Sugar (some boil it) and some use out, while others only use Shmaltz.
So anything we eat was 100% prepared by us, all out of raw ingredients. We don’t even buy potato starch.
(Preempting the questions, of course there are some Lubavitchers who aren’t careful with these Minhagim, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is Lubavitch minhag, and kept by the vast majority. Also, any Pesach hotel that advertises “All Chabad Chumros” is an oxymoron.
Shulchan Aruch HaRav, Orach Chayim 17:3
וּמִכָּל מָקוֹם, אֲפִלּוּ נְקֵבוֹת וַדָּאִים וְכֵן עֲבָדִים אִם יִרְצוּ לְהִתְעַטֵּף בְּצִיצִית וּלְבָרֵךְ – הָרְשׁוּת בְּיָדָן, כְּמוֹ שֶׁנּוֹהֲגִין בִּשְׁאָר מִצְוֹת עֲשֵׂה שֶׁהַזְּמַן גְּרָמָא, וִיכוֹלִין לוֹמַר “וְצִוָּנוּ לְהִתְעַטֵּף בַּצִּיצִית” אַף־עַל־פִּי שֶׁהֵן אֵינָן מְצֻוִּין, מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהָאֲנָשִׁים מְצֻוִּים עַל כָּךְ, וְגַם הֵן כְּשֶׁמְּקַיְּמִין מִצְוֹת שֶׁהֵם פְּטוּרִים מֵהֶם אַף־עַל־פִּי שֶׁאֵין לָהֶם שָׂכָר גָּדוֹל כִּמְצֻוֶּה וְעוֹשֶׂה, מִכָּל מָקוֹם קְצָת שָׂכָר יֵשׁ לָהֶם לָכֵן יְכוֹלוֹת הֵן לְבָרֵךְ עַל כָּל מִצְוֹת שֶׁהֵן פְּטוּרִין מֵהֶם, אִם עוֹשִׂין הַמִּצְוֹת כְּתִיקּוּנָן בְּעִנְיָן שֶׁהָאֲנָשִׁים יְכוֹלִים לְבָרֵךְ עֲלֵיהֶם.
וּמִכָּל מָקוֹם הוֹאִיל וּמֶחֱזֵי כְּיֻהֲרָא – אֵין לָהֶם לְהִתְלַבֵּשׁ בְּצִיצִית, כֵּיוָן דְּגַם הָאֲנָשִׁים אֵינָם חַיָּבִים בְּמִצְוָה זוֹ אֶלָּא אִם כֵּן יֵשׁ לָהֶם טַלִּית בַּת אַרְבַּע כְּנָפוֹת, וְאֵינוֹ חוֹבַת הַגּוּף כְּמוֹ שׁוֹפָר וְלוּלָב שֶׁהַנָּשִׁים נוֹהֲגוֹת לְהַחְמִיר עַל עַצְמָן.
Shulchan Aruch HaRav Orach Chayim 589:2:
אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁהַנָּשִׁים פְּטוּרוֹת, מִכָּל מָקוֹם אִם רָצוּ לִתְקֹעַ בְּעַצְמָן הָרְשׁוּת בְּיָדָן. וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁהַתְּקִיעָה בְּיוֹם טוֹב בְּחִנָּם אֲסוּרָה מִדִּבְרֵי סוֹפְרִים, מִכָּל מָקוֹם כְּדֵי לַעֲשׂוֹת נַחַת רוּחַ לַנָּשִׁים הִתִּירוּ לָהֶן אִסּוּר קַל כָּזֶה ז שֶׁאֵין בּוֹ אֲפִלּוּ מִשּׁוּם שְׁבוּת גָּמוּר אֶלָּא מִשּׁוּם עוּבְדִּין דְּחֹל.
וְכֵן אָדָם אַחַר שֶׁיָּצָא כְּבָר יְדֵי חוֹבָתוֹ מֻתָּר לִתְקֹעַ לָהֶן. וּמֻתָּר לְהוֹצִיא הַשּׁוֹפָר לִרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים כְּדֵי לִתְקֹעַ לָהֶן.
וּכְבָר נִתְבָּאֵר בְּסִימָן י”[ז] שֶׁנָּהֲגוּ הַנָּשִׁים לְבָרֵךְ עַל כָּל מִצְוֹת עֲשֵׂה שֶׁהַזְּמַן גְּרָמָא, עַל כֵּן גַּם כָּאן יְבָרְכוּ הַנָּשִׁים לְעַצְמָן, אֲבָל אֲנָשִׁים לֹא יְבָרְכוּ לָהֶן אִם כְּבָר יָצְאוּ יְדֵי חוֹבָתָם וְאֵינָן תּוֹקְעִים רַק בִּשְׁבִיל הַנָּשִׁים, לְפִי שֶׁהִיא בְּרָכָה לְבַטָּלָה, שֶׁהֲרֵי הַנָּשִׁים בְּעַצְמָן אֵינָן חַיָּבוֹת בִּבְרָכָה זוֹ שֶׁיְּבָרֵךְ זֶה לְהוֹצִיאָן יְדֵי חוֹבָתָן בִּבְרָכָה זוֹ, אֶלָּא שֶׁלָּהֶן בְּעַצְמָן הָרְשׁוּת בְּיָדָן לְבָרֵךְ מִטַּעַם שֶׁנִּתְבָּאֵר שָׁם, אֲבָל אַחֵר לָמָּה יְבָרֵךְ בְּחִנָּם.
וְהָרוֹצֶה לִתְקֹעַ לַנָּשִׁים וּלְבָרֵךְ לָהֶן – יִתְקַע לָהֶן קֹדֶם שֶׁיִּשְׁמַע הַתְּקִיעוֹת בְּבֵית הַכְּנֶסֶת, אוֹ שֶׁיְּכַוֵּן בְּלִבּוֹ שֶׁלֹּא לָצֵאת יְדֵי חוֹבָתוֹ בִּתְקִיעוֹת שֶׁל בֵּית הַכְּנֶסֶת, דְּאָז יָכוֹל לְבָרֵךְ בִּשְׁבִיל עַצְמוֹ שֶׁעֲדַיִן לֹא יָצָא יְדֵי חוֹבָתוֹ. וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁהוֹלֵךְ לָהֶן לִתְקֹעַ בְּבָתֵּיהֶן וְחוֹזֵר לְבֵית הַכְּנֶסֶת וְשׁוֹמֵעַ הַתְּקִיעוֹת דִּמְעֻמָּד שֶׁעַל סֵדֶר הַבְּרָכוֹת – אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ לַחֲזֹר וּלְבָרֵךְ עֲלֵיהֶם, וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁהִפְסִיק בַּהֲלִיכָה לְבֵית הַכְּנֶסֶת בֵּין בִּרְכָתוֹ לִתְקִיעוֹת אֵלּוּ, שֶׁהֲרֵי אֲפִלּוּ אִם הִפְסִיק בְּשִׂיחָה בֵּינְתַיִם אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ לַחֲזֹר וּלְבָרֵךְ מִטַּעַם שֶׁיִּתְבָּאֵר בְּסִימָן תקצ”ב:
@Syag,
“I am trying to understand why you link the fruit eating with Tuesday, we understood the importance of fruit but there was no mention of eating it on Tuesday.”What part of CS’ philosophy is equal to the Tuesday in your analogy?
@All,It seems to me, that as soon as one issue is refuted, you find a second. When that’s refuted, you find a third, and so on and so forth. In my humble opinion, there’s something deeper to this, not just your concerns that I worship Avodah Zara. (Yes, I have a buddah in my bedroom. All Lubavitchers worship idols.) There’s something else that just bothers you about Lubavitch and our Rebbe zy”a. I’m not 100% sure what it is, but I have my suspicions that’s jealousy is at least a small factor. While we’re on the subject, I’d like to share some “facts” about Lubavitch that I’ve heard from non Lubavitchers over the years.
“Chabad Bochurim are given a car and drive around doing “shlichus” all day”. This is one of the popular ones, while in reality, we actually sit and learn in Yeshiva all day, just like everyone else.
“Chabad Yeshivas learn only Tanya” another popular one, but of course, we learn Gemara like all other Yeshivos (Bava Kama this year) while learning Chassidus as well, for a smaller part of the day. Also, Chassidus isn’t limited to Tanya.
There are many more such nonsensical ideas you have about us which aren’t founded in reality.
Now for some jokes about “Misnagdim”:
(After all the hate we’ve gotten here, I’m entitled…)How does a misnaged know that Hashem exists? Well, the Rambam paskens that there’s a Motzui Rishon, and the Raved and Nosei Kelim don’t argue…
A misnaged turns to his friend and shares a horrible dream he has, “I dreamed that Hashem was dead” says the misnaged, “Nu”, says his friend, “you dream about what you think during the day”, and the misnaged replies, “impossible – I haven’t thought of Hashem in years!”.
Before you freak out, “see, the always think they’re better!” these jokes were told about the long extinct misnagdim of yesteryear.
I have to say, that I’ve spent time in Lakewood, (the town, not the Yeshivos) and I haven’t seen these attitudes expressed there, I’ve only encountered friendly welcoming people. I begin to wonder if theses negative people only exist on the internet…
I think a model Litvak, who’s went to the finest Litvishe Yeshivos, and is an accomplished Talmid Chochom, is Reb Dovid Lichtenstein, of the “Halachic Headlines” show. I’m sure he knows Hilchos Avodah Zara, and he knows very well what Chabad Hashkofos are, yet he holds us in high regard, as I hold your communities and Yeshivos. We can have disagreements – אין דעותיהם שוות, but we can still be friends – חברים כל ישראל. In davening we ask, ברכינו אבינו, when does that come? When we are כולנו כאחד. Achdus isn’t accomplished through פירוד הלבבות. Achdus is when we recognize that we are ערבים זה בזה, for הלא אב אחד לכולנו.
As Shlomo Hamelech said, כמים הפנים לפנים כן לב האדם לאדם. You feel that we hate because you hate us. We feel you hate us because we hate you. It’s a vicious cycle, which, we can snap right out of, if we only wanted to. We need to realize that just because we don’t understand someone else’s Derech, that doesn’t make it wrong. It should be enough that Gedolei Yisroel throughout the years held the Rebbe and Lubavitch in high regard, if you aren’t able to do your own proper unbiased research into our legitimacy.
I think I’m going to stop responding here and now, as whatever I will say will just be used as fodder to fuel new and creative hatred.
With hope that we can live alongside each other in mutual respect and love עד ביאת גואל צדק בב”א.
@CS, Eli Y, DaasYochid,
Re, “asking Igros” I had a post about it on a previous thread, if someone can find it, thanks. In any case, many Lubavitchers are vehemently against it, and it has no source in anything the Rebbe said, and aderabe.
@CS,
“The job of a Rebbe is to make the natural emuna a yid has real and internalised. So if anything I think I have a much deeper connection to Hashem and He is much more real to me in my life, than if I didn’t have a Rebbe.”
Very well put.
#V’atahTeztaveh.Btw, if anyone is interested in knowing more about these things, find the maamar V’atah Tetzavah, Purim Katan נ”ב.
You can access it here: http://www.lahak.org/templates/lahak/article_cdo/aid/3049995
(@mods, please allow through, I can’t upload images, and this isn’t copyright, it’s for public consumption)@Syag,
“So your thinking that’s an answer?If your only response is a dig, don’t press submit. I brings your credibility to question”
It’s an answer in the form of a question. If you can’t give Nachas to anyone but the Aibershter, how do you aspire to give Nachas to your parents?It wasn’t a dig at all. If I’m “digging” you’ll know about it. Trust me.
@NonPolitical,
“The example of Tephilin (and all other Mitzvot) are not relevant here. (Frankly I’m surprised you didn’t use the example of Kruvim.) All the Mitzvot connect us to Hashem. He commanded them. Are you implying that the practices mentioned in this thread are on somehow on par with Mitzvot from the Torah?”I’m not sure what practice you’re referring to, I possibly missed a few posts, but I can tell that connecting to a Tzadik is a way of connecting to Hashem. As Rashi says:
ולדבקה בו. אֶפְשָׁר לוֹמָר כֵּן? וַהֲלֹא אֵשׁ אוֹכְלָה הוּא? אֶלָּא הִדָּבֵק בְּתַלְמִידִים וּבַחֲכָמִים וּמַעֲלֶה אֲנִי עָלֶיךָ כְּאִלּוּ נִדְבַּקְתָּ בּוֹ
@Samthenylic,
Do you ever try be a source of Nachas to your parents? I guess not.@Slabokda,
“What the rebbe wants of me? What about what Hashem wants of me?”A Rebbe, in any Chassidus, is a Moreh Derech, someone who instructs you how best to live your life. This is not unique to Lubavitch. I’m sure Litvaks have such a concept too.
@AvrumInMD,
“Because Chabadshlucha is part of my spiritual family, and I am alarmed by some of the things I have read. Her “I talk … directly to Hashem too” comment was specifically a follow-up to this:”I also was alarmed when I saw the “too” comment CS made. I was typing a response when she wrote it, but then got distracted with something else and never wrote anything. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, ChabadShlucha isn’t a representative of Chabad philosophy and practice (I’ll write this in parentheses, at the risk of seriously insulting her, I really doubt that she’s a recognized official Shlucha, under the auspices of Merkos L’inyonei Chinuch. I suspect that because she’s involved in Chinuch, she’s just using the term Shlucha. I may be wrong though…) as we’ve discussed here before, we both have vastly different opinions on what the essence of Chabad is, and Meshichistism especially. Regarding what she wrote earlier,
“Sechel I understand that you are a chossid although we have differences in how we are mekushar. Just because you may not hold of iggros etc. doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with it. In fact, quite the opposite. I know it’s tempting to think you’re
way is right and 70% of Chabad is wrong, but the Rebbe made it very clear to me that both ways are acceptable, and therefore I’ve kept quiet many times when you’ve said things I disagree with. I expect the same courtesy.”Firstly, I strongly disagree with your stats and numbers here. I don’t know anyone who shares your opinion on this issue. (You may be in the majority regarding Moshiach, but not here)
Secondly, I indeed do have an issue with “asking Igros” it’s a practice that has no source in anything the Rebbe said or encouraged, and is in fact contrary to what the Rebbe did say about using sforim (any sforim) for such things. I can quote you an exact source in Likkutei Sichos if you like. I think I already did in a previous thread.
If asking Igros got you a response that indicates that asking Igros is okay, that’s one of the weakest arguments I’ve ever heard. In all honesty, the Rebbe never made anything clear to you, as you were born shortly before or after Gimmel Tammuz.I think all of you here are basing your opinions on Lubavitch on hearsay and internet opinions. In reality, we don’t have an “alcohol culture” the way described here at all. Majority of farbrengens I’ve attended, in or out of Yeshivas, nobody was even mildly drunk. I’ve never been drunk in my life. (And I can legally buy alcohol). The Rebbe made a rule, known as “The Gzerah” forbidding anyone under 40 of consuming more than 4 Kelishkes, or a Reviis of mashke.
I’m not going to engage in the “no true Scotsman fallacy” even though in this case it is quite tempting.If you really want to see what we do, and who we are, come visit your local Lubavitcher Yeshiva. Attend a farbrengen there. Speak to the Hanhala and the Bochurim. Watch them sit and learn Gerama and Chassidus. Sit in on a shiur. If anyone is serious about it, I’ll tell you where your nearest Chabad Yeshiva is.
@SyagLchochma,
“They are advocates. Any salvation they bring is Gds doing.I know you know this. I am not hearing that it is universally accepted. I am hearing disturbing comments to the contrary. Saying they are disturbing is not being mean, it is following Torah.”
For once, I think we’re saying the same thing.
I am not sure if CS thinks this way or not, but it has become apparent that she does have a slightly warped view on Hiskashrus and a Rebbe. (I don’t mean to put her down, but I do mean to say that because she thinks a certain way doesn’t make it indicative of Chabad Shitta.I would say that our Shitta is 100% in line with the above quoted Tshuvos Mahram Shick.
I think I summed up very clearly what I do and don’t believe before Shabbos.
@Mod29,
“SHY has definitely had posts deleted for nasty comments (to put it nicely) and I would have deleted more. While LC has indeed written more in volume, his deletions are towards a community and beliefs while SHY’s have been very personal. Very specifically personal. So you BOTH may want to watch your words.”If I’m not mistaken, I only ever had 1 post modified, and that wasn’t even in this thread. I don’t believe I’ve ever had a post deleted.
@RSO,
“Are you sure I don’t come in second to you:“Oh right, I forgot that you are the ones who calls the shots on all A”Z and Apikorsus related issues. I think I saw your sefer in the Seforim store last week, the one called “הבנת הכסיל” with the attached Kuntres “היפוכם בגולם”.”
?”I think that’s more humor than insult, but regardless, for anyone who considers me to be an Oved Avoda Zara, it’s well deserved.
כל הפוסל במומו פוסל.@TOI,
“it may serve you well to find out some more about the rebbe’s history, starting from his early years, onto the rebbetzin and berlin, all the up to and including becoming rebbe and what really happened. What you find might be scary, but at least you won’t be living in a rewritten history.”Well now that I know what book you’ve been reading, you have totally discredited yourself as an impartial person who just wants to understand what we believe.
I’d advise you to read the rest of the books by those authors and see what they think of all other Chareidim. They hate and willfuly vilify all frum Yidden.
I’m going to disprove the veracity of their claims here and now, but suffice to say, according to them, the Rebbe would have been almost 120 when he passed away. And many equally ridiculous claims refuted by first hand accounts and documentation.
One claim they make which is quite easy to refute, is that there’s a long red carpet leading to the Rebbes Ohel, meant to signify that “there’s only one road to heaven”, and that Chassidim face the Ohel when they daven in the shul at the cemetery.
In reality there is no red carpet, and the Ohel happens to face mizrach.
Now, I know what you are going to say, “what book are you talking about? I never read such a thing!”. You may have not read it, although I suspect you did, but in any case, the hogwash you’re referring to all has one exclusive source, this book. (I’m not going to name it here.)
For you to make such claims is like me referencing failed messiah (an old website critical of frumkeit) with criticism of Lakewood and the Litvishe velt.
@LitvisheChossid,
“I do not recall any of Seichel Hayashar’s posts needing to be deleted due to harshness, and if there were some, they would certainly seem to be fewer than yours. -100”Couldn’t have said it better myself.
A little bit of sarcasm and poetic license, isn’t really all that harsh. I can only speak for myself, I do not hate people who aren’t Chabad (majority of the Jewish world) because they aren’t Chabad. שבעים פנים לתורה.
But I expect them to give the same respect I have for their Derech, to mine.
Calling our Derech “Avoda Zara” and “Not legitimate” doesn’t increase the love I have for you, as my fellow Yid.This week is Shabbos Mevorchim Adar, why don’t we all put a little emphasis on חברים כל ישראל, and try actualize it בפועל ממש.
@RebYidd23,
“PSA: Long posts are less likely to get read.”
I realize that, which is why I explicitly said that in order for me to properly explain anything, it will be necessary.
One who truly desires to understand, will actually read it.
@CS,
”
Sechel I don’t think people hate us. I think they just had a different reality than we did about tzaddikim etc . That’s why I’m trying to clear it up”I hate to break it to you, but it will never be cleared up here. Because many here don’t actually care to listen.
As you pointed out, Daas Yochid seems like one of the more intellectually honest ones here.
Neville can be here and there.
And RSO gets the “hater of the year” award, for consistently spewing venomous hate filled rhetoric.
Litvishe Chossid would come in second place, but he wasn’t really around enough.Have a Lichtige Shabbos everyone, and ah gutten chodesh!
ויקוים בנו היעוד “חברים כל ישראל” ונאמר אמןI’m not going to bother anymore. Obviously, many of you didn’t bother reading that long post I put up, or if you did, you clearly didn’t get anything I said.
If our own Lubavitcher sources (Tanya for one) aren’t enough, I’ve quoted a Tshuvos Mahram Shick and given the Mare Mokom.
Somebody else quoted a very “problematic” Chasam Sofer, (as some of you would call it) but that’s also not good enough. In the end of the day, no matter what explanations and Mare Mekomos we’ll give you, you will still hate us. That is a fact becoming more and more apparent on these threads. If anyone here seriously wants to know about what we believe and why, go to your local Chabad Yeshiva and find out. If you are in Lakewood, there’s a local Lubavitcher who’s a legendary Talmid Chochom, I’m sure you can speak with him. His name is HaRav Nochum Greenwald.
Alternatively, you can come visit Yeshivas Tomchei Tmimim – Morristown NJ, “Rabbinical College of America”.I’ll summarize here one last time what I do and don’t believe:
1. There’s only one Aibershter, and it’s not the Rebbe Zy”a.
(I feel quite stupid typing this even, but some of you need to be sure I don’t believe that)
2. The Rebbe passed away on the 3rd of Tammuz 5754.
3. Just as Chassidim asked him for brochos during his life, we continue to do so after his passing by going to his Tziyun in Queens NY.
4. In my opinion, the Rebbe being Moshiach or not is a total non issue.
5. We believe that every generation has it’s leader, the “Ispashtusa Dmoshe shebchol Dara vedara. (Zohar).
6. We believe every Yid to be a Chelek Eloka MiMaal Mamosh. Given that, the Neshama Klolis of that generation has that expressed by him in a much more revealed way. Hence, “Atzmus Umehus in a guf. That applies to us too, there’s Atzmus Umehus in my guf too.
7. Debating what we believe on the Coffee Room is not a conducive way to understanding anything.
8. If you washed away the old hate some of you have for us, you’d see that much of your opposition isn’t based on Yiras Shomayim and Shulchan Aruch, but merely plain old hate.Here’s the Tshuva I quoted.
@DaasYochid,
“No, I’m not accusing you of believing that Moshe Rabbeinu or the Rebbe are Hashem, ch”v. But can’t you see how use of such terminology (which seems much too common) can (and has) lead to belief in shituf?”Which is why it’s important to learn Chassidus. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a Lubavitcher who has heard these concepts, but doesn’t know the background to them in Chassidus. Yes, there are fresh baalei Tshuva who do and say silly things, but that’s not limited to this field.
I myself, learned these ideas in Chassidus about Bittul, way before I learned this sicha.
@DaasYochid,
“2 – what do you think betten means ?, when we write to the rebbe we write on the first line Ana liorer rachamim rabim avuri…That question has been asked here, but we haven’t gotten a straight answer. If it merely means to ask the Rebbe to daven on your behalf, there’s no kashya to address. Nobody has a problem with that.”
Let me make this very clear. I, and all other Chabad Chassidim, do not daven to the Rebbe. Betten a Rebbe, is exactly what Joe explained, asking a Rebbe to intercede on ones behalf, as we write in a Pidyon Nefesh, or “Pa”n”, אנא לעורר רחמים רבים עבורי. This idea is by no means exclusive to Chassidus Chabad. Kalev went to Kivrei Avos to daven, and ask the Avos to intercede on their behalf.
The Mahram Shick, a Talmid of the Chasam Sofer, discussed this very question; how may one ask any Tzadik, living or dead, to daven on his behalf. For if a Yid cannot make an intermediary between himself and the Aibershter, how may we ask another Yid to beseech Hashem on our behalf?
The Mahram Shick explains this apparent anomaly in the name of his teacher, the Chasam Sofer: When one Yid approaches another and tells of the pain he is suffering, the other Yid feels it just as he does. Now they are both in need of Tefila. The Yid does not feel he is davening for an “other”–he is davening for himself.
In other words, all Yidden can be considered as one body. If the toe is hurting, it needs the head and the heart to help it. So too, if I am in need, I can call upon all other Yidden—and especially those who are the head and the heart of our people—to daven for me as well. Because if one Yid is hurting, we are all hurting.
Mahram Shik then extends this to the deceased, as well. According to the Gemara and the Zohar, those Tzadikim who have passed on from this world are still very much in touch with their Talmidim and family and care for them and their problems.
See Tshuvos Mahram Shick, Orach Chayim, 293.
@Daas Yochid,
“SHY, I did read it all, thank you.”Thank you for reading it. It shows a certain intellectual honesty when you take the time to read through an entire megillah.
“You can call him transparent in his transmission of the Torah, but he wasn’t Hashem, ch”v, he was still a human being, as much a separate entity as other human beings.”
Nowhere did I imply that Moshe Rabbeinu was the Aibershter. Chas vesholom.
But Moshe Rabbeinu had such a deep bittul (vehaish Moshe anov meod mikol adom) that his own proclivities didn’t only not get in the way – they didn’t exist. That’s how it was שכינה מדברת מתוך גרונו. In Chassidus you have the idea of two levels of Bittul, ביטול היש , and ביטול במציאות. A true Tzaddik like Moshe Rabbeinu ע”ה had attained the level of ביטול במציאות.
The first level of ביטול, ביטול היש is when I have my own רצונות, and I put them aside for the Aibershter, (בטל רצונך בפני רצונו)
making Hashems Ratzon my Ratzon.ביטול במציאות however, is that I don’t have a רצון כלל. Like Moshe Rabbeinu said ונחנו מה.
If you’d like, I can expound further.
@RSO,
Why do you read it through, and then ask questions?Regarding placing a picture under the pillow by a bris:
After asking many people about it, here’s what I found.Majority of people I asked hadn’t ever seen it, some had heard of it before, none knew the source, or if it was widely done.
A mashpia I asked told me that the Rebbe in fact addressed this Minhag, and said it originated after Chassidim wanted the Frierdiker Rebbe to be Sandek, but he couldn’t be present, so they placed a picture of him under the pillow. I looked for a source for this, and didn’t find any. (That doesn’t mean that there isn’t) The person who told this to me didn’t recall where he heard or saw it.
A prominent Lubavitcher Rov I asked had heard of it, but didn’t know if there was any source for it. He said that some people do it, and many others don’t. As for himself, he said he wasn’t makpid on placing a picture under the pillow.
Some people suggested that the reason why many have never seen it, was because the mohel places the picture there, and most people don’t notice it.
Regardless, I don’t know why anyone would consider it A”Z of any kind.
I’m going to Iy”h explain over here the role and concept of a Nossi, and the idea of a ממוצע המחבר. It’s a very long post, so please bear with me. As I’m typing and editing material that I’ve copied on a phone, the formatting isn’t great. If you actually want to understand what we believe, read the entire thing. After you do that, I’ll be more than happy to answer questions if I can. Here goes…
Chassidus often introduces a revolutionary way of understanding a concept that already exists in Nigleh. Although the concept of Hiskashrus existed earlier, chassidus reveals its central nature in a Jew’s service of Hashem.
The concept of Hiskashrus is found in the Gemara, which states,
“A child who begins to speak is taught by his father: תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה קהילת יעקב .Why is it so important to teach a child, particularly in the beginning of their chinuch, that the Torah was commanded to us by Moshe? Shouldn’t we begin with the Torah’s Divine origin?
The fact that we place such an emphasis on telling a child that Moshe was sent by Hashem to be the עומד בין ה’ וביניכם the intermediary between Hashem and the Yidden, demonstrates how important this idea truly is. In the words of the Mechilta on the Pasuk ויאמינו בה’ ובמשה עבדו ,Whoever believes in the רועה נאמן ,the faithful shepherd,
is considered to believe in He who spoke and created the world (Hashem).
The Zohar states that each generation has an אתפשטותא דמשה רבינו “,a tzaddik who is the expression of Moshe in his own generation.
This tzaddik is charged with being the עומד בין ה’ וביניכם just like Moshe.
This fits with the Gemara in Kesubos, which explains that when someone connects with Talmidei Chachomim, “The Torah considers it as though he has cleaved to the שכינה“.
Chazal teach us that the role of a tzaddik is not only the teaching of Torah; the tzaddik also cares for the needs of the Yidden and concerns
himself with their well being. This is proven from the Gemara in Bava Basra, which states, “Whoever has a sick person in his house should go to a Torah scholar, who will invoke [Heavenly] mercy for him.”
Similarly, it is stated in Maseches Taanis
that “If you see a generation over whom the heavens are rust colored like copper so that neither dew nor rain falls… let him go to the most pious man of that generation so that he will daven for him abundantly.” It is clear that a Tzaddik – the intermediary between Hashem and the Yidden – doesn’t only bring G-dliness down into the world. The Tzaddik also elevates the Yidden and connects them with Hashem, and even davens for their material needs.
One question remains: why do the Jewish people need a Tzaddik to be an העומד בין ה’ ’ וביניכם?“ Do we not all have a direct connection to Hashem?Tanya Perek 2 – The Head of the
Jewish People
In Perek Bais of Tanya, the Alter Rebbe explains
the concept of a tzaddik of the generation, as well as the nature of the tzaddik’s connection
to the Jewish people.
The Alter Rebbe first explains that every Jewish soul is literally a piece of Hashem Himself, חלק אלוה ממעל ממש. After bringing several
proofs for this, the Alter Rebbe raises the question:ואף שיש רבבות מיני חלוקי מדרגות בנשמות, גבוה מעל גבוה לאין קץ
TRANSLATION: True, there are myriads of different gradations of neshamos , rank upon rank, without end
כמו גודל מעלת נשמות האבות ומשה רבינו, עליו השלום, על נשמות דורותינו אלה דעקבי משיחא
TRANSLATION: For example, the neshamos of the Avos and of
Moshe Rabbenu are by far superior to the neshamos of our own
generations, [which belong to] the period preceding the coming of (lit., the “heels”), i.e.,footsteps of Moshiach
שהם בחינת עקביים ממש לגבי המוח והראש
TRANSLATION: for [our neshamos] are like the very soles of the feet in comparison with the brain and the head.
Just as the life-force found in the soles of the feet cannot possibly
be compared to that found in the head and brain, so too can there be no
comparison between the neshamos of these present generations and
those neshamos (here called the “head” and “brain”) of earlier gener-
ations.
וכן בכל דור ודור יש ראשי אלפי ישראל, שנשמותיהם הם בחינת
ראש ומוח לגבי נשמות ההמון ועמי הארץ
TRANSLATION: Similarly, within each generation we find the
same disparity among neshamos, there are those who are the “heads (the leaders) of the multitude of Israel,” since their ne-
shamos are in the category of “head” and “brain” in comparison
with those of the masses and the ignorant.
The Alter Rebbe’s question, in a nutshell: if every Neshama is literally
a piece of Hashem himself, it would seem obvious that all neshamos
must be equally lofty. Why, then, do we see that some neshamos aregreater than others?
וכן נפשות לגבי נפשות כי כל נפש כלולה מנפש רוח ונשמה
TRANSLATION: Likewise there are similar distinctions between
Nefashos and Nefashos (the soul-levels of Nefesh),for every soul
consists of Nefesh, Ruach and Neshamah.
How can one Neshama have three levels within itself?
The Alter Rebbe answers:
מכל מקום שורש כל הנפש רוח ונשמה כולם, מראש כל המדריגות
עד סוף כל דרגין, המלובש בגוף עמי הארץ וקל שבקלים
TRANSLATION: Nevertheless, the root of every Nefesh, Ruach
and Neshamah, from the highest of all ranks to the lowest — the
“lowest” being those neshamos embodied within the illiterate
and the most light-minded of light-minded Jews,נמשך ממוח העליון שהיא חכמה עילאה כביכול
TRANSLATION: all are derived, as it were, from the Supreme
Mind (of Hashem) which is Chochmah Ila‘ah (Supernal Wisdom).The Alter Rebbe explains that despite their disparate levels, the Neshamos share a common root. It is this common root that forms the basis of the Alter Rebbe’s explanation. It is important to gain clarity in this key subject:
Seder Hishtalshelus contains four worlds. These “Worlds”, or stages in the creative process, are (in descending order): Atzilus (the World of Emanation), Beriah (the World of Creation), Yetzirah (the World of Formation) and Asiyah (the World of Action – including the physical world).
Atzilus (Emanation) is a world where the Or Ein Sof is revealed.
This means that Elokus Itself is transplanted or copied to a lower level.
At the same time, Atzilus is still united with its source — Ein Sof.
These two characteristics of Atzilus are indicated in its name. The word Atzilus is related to two root words: (a) The verb אצל ,meaning “to delegate”, as in the Possuk, “I (Hashem) shall delegate something
of your (Moshe) spirit and place it upon them (the seventy zekeinim).”
The Possuk tells us that the spirit of Nevuah possessed by the seventy zekeinim was merely an extension of Moshe’s spirit, but not something new and separate from Moshe. Similarly, the properties of Atzilus are
a copy, on a lower level, of Ein Sof. (b) Atzilus is related to the word “Etzel”, meaning “near” — thus indicating the constant unity of Atzilus
with its source.
The Neshama stems from Chochma Ilaa which is the highest level in Atzilus. This level is the source of all Neshamos, regardless of their
present form in this world.
To explain how the levels of individual Neshamos can widely vary not withstanding their common source, the Alter Rebbe introduces the example of a father and son. The child’s entire body is derived from a single drop that originated in his father’s brain. At the same time, the many physical components which constitute the child’s body are by no
means uniform.
The brain, which is the seat of intellect, is the loftiest part of the body. Conversely, fingernails and toenails are not as essential to the
body, containing very little life. It is easy to understand how the brain originates from the father’s brain, it is harder to understand how toe nails originate in the father’s brain.
These great differences between body parts occurs during the physical development of the embryo during pregnancy. Despite sharing the same source, the limbs develop into very different entities.
In the Alter Rebbe’s own words:
כמשל הבן הנמשך ממוח האב, שאפילו צפרני רגליו נתהוו מטפה זו
ממש
TRANSLATION: [The manner of the soul’s descent] is similar to a child who is derived from his father’s brain, even the nails of his feet come into existence from the very same drop.
על ידי שהייתה תשעה חדשים בבטן האם, וירדה ממדריגה למדריגה,
להשתנות ולהתהוות ממנה צפרנים
TRANSLATION: by being in the mother’s womb ,for nine months
descending degree by degree, changing continually, until [even]
the nails are formed from it.
The Alter Rebbe clarifies that not only are all of the limbs root-
ed in in the same source, but the limbs, even after formation, remain
connected to their source – the father’s brain.The changes from the
root matter that formed the limbs are merely external; their essence
remains the same.
In the Alter Rebbe’s words:
ועם כל זה עודנה קשורה ומיוחדת ביחוד נפלא ועצום במהותה
ועצמותה הראשון, שהיתה טפת מוח האב
TRANSLATION: Furthermore, Although the drop has been so al-
tered as to become the substance of the child’s nails, yet it is
still bound to and united in a wondrous and mighty unity with its
original essence and being, namely, the drop as it came from the
father’s brain.
Is this connection still apparent after these external changes?
The Alter Rebbe affirms that the connection does remain visible.
This is due to the fact that all the child’s limbs, down to his nails, still
receive their nourishment from the brain. The brain, in turn, retains its
original character, since it was a drop from the father’s brain and now
it is a brain as well. This is also expressed in the fact that the natural
inclinations of the son mirror those of the father. Thus, we understand
that even the nails are bound up with their original source, the drop
from the father’s brain, through their constant connection with their
own brain.
In the Alter Rebbe’s words:
וגם עכשיו בבן, יניקת הצפרנים וחיותם נמשכת מהמוח שבראש
TRANSLATION: Even now, in the son, the nails receive their nourishment and life from the brain that is in his head.
Now the Alter Rebbe goes on to the nimshal:
וככה ממש כביכול בשורש כל הנפש רוח ונשמה של כללות ישראל
למעלה
TRANSLATION: Exactly so, as it were, is the case with regard to
every Nefesh, Ruach, and Neshamah in the community of Yisrael
on high.
בירידתו ממדריגה למדריגה על ידי השתלשלות העולמות, אצילות
בריאה יצירה עשיה מחכמתו יתברך
TRANSLATION: By [the soul’s] descending degree by degree
through the Hishtalshelut of the Worlds of Atzilus, Beriah, Yet-
zirah and Asiyah, from Hashem’s wisdom,
כדכתיב: כולם בחכמה עשית
TRANSLATION: as it is written, “You have made them all with
wisdom (Chochmah)” (which means that everything emanates
from Chochmah, which is the source of all Hishtalshelus),
נתהוו ממנו נפש רוח ונשמה של עמי הארץ ופחותי הערך
TRANSLATION: [through this descent] the Nefesh, Ruach and
Neshamah of the ignorant and least worthy come into being.
Just as the child’s limbs come from a single source, and the differ-
ences between them occur only in the mother’s womb, the same can
be said with regard to our Neshamos: they are all derived from a single
source, Chochmah Ila‘ah, which is the highest level of Atzilus – a com-
plete unification and bond with Elokus.
In the course of its descent from Chochmah Ila‘ah into the phys-
ical body, the soul passes through the entire Seder Hishtalshelus (the
four worlds of Atzilus, Beriah, Yetzirah and Asiya). This descent pro-
duces the various levels of neshamos, ranging from the loftiest of ne-
shamos possessed by the greatest of tzaddikim .to those belonging to the most simple of JewsHere the Alter Rebbe arrives at the next point in the analogy:
ועם כל זה עודינה קשורות ומיוחדות ביחוד נפלא ועצום במהותן
ועצמותן הראשון, שהיא המשכת חכמה עילאה
TRANSLATION: Nevertheless (notwithstanding the fact that they
have already become neshamos of the lower levels — the neshamos of the ignorant and the least worthy), they (these lesser neshamos) remain bound and united with a wonderful and mighty unity with their original essence, namely, an extension of Chochmah Ila‘ah (Supernal Wisdom),
כי יניקת וחיות נפש רוח ונשמה של עמי הארץ הוא מנפש רוח ונשמה
של הצדיקים והחכמים ראשי בני ישראל שבדורם
TRANSLATION: for the nurture and life of the Nefesh, Ruach and
Neshamah of the ignorant are drawn from the Nefesh, Ruach, and Neshamah of the righteous and the sages, the “heads” of Israel in their generation.By drawing their nurture and life from those who represent the levels of “head” and “brain”, all Jews are bound up with their source in Chochmah Ila‘ah — Supernal Wisdom
To summarize:
In the example given above, we observed two points:
1) All the child’s limbs receive their vitality from the brain; it is through the brain that the child’s limbs retain their connection to their
original source in a visible manner.
The same applies to Neshamos Yisroel: 1) Despite the differences
among them, all neshamos must receive their nourishment from “the
brain of the son”, the Tzaddikim of the generation; 2) through their
attachment to the Tzaddikim, “the brain of the son”, they retain their
visible and revealed connection with the original source, Chochmah Ila’ah.
Now the Alter Rebbe continues:
ובזה יובן מאמר רבותינו ז״ל על פסוק: ולדבקה בו – שכל הדבק בתלמיד חכם מעלה עליו הכתוב כאלו נדבק בשכינה ממש
TRANSLATION: This explains the comment of our Sages on the verse, “And cleave unto Him” (concerning which the question arises, How can mortal man cleave to Hashem? In answer,
our Sages comment), “He who cleaves unto a [Torah] scholar is deemed by the Torah as if he had actually become attached to the Shechinah (the Divine Presence).”
This seems difficult to comprehend: How can one equate connecting to a Torah scholar with connecting to the Shechinah? However, in
light of the above explanation, this is readily understood.
כי על ידי דביקה בתלמידי חכמים, קשורות נפש רוח ונשמה של עמי
הארץ ומיוחדות במהותן הראשון ושרשם שבחכמה עילאה
TRANSLATION: For, through attachment to the scholars, the Nefesh, Ruach and Neshamah of the ignorant are bound up and united with their original essence and their root in Supernal Wisdom,
שהוא יתברך וחכמתו אחד, והוא המדע כו׳
TRANSLATION: (and thereby with Hashem Himself, since) He and His wisdom are one, and “He is the Knowledge…”
We’ve established that Neshamos receive energy from Tzaddikim, just as limbs receive energy from the brain. If this is the case, then the Tzaddikim should be the only possible source of energy for the Neshamos,
just as the brain is the only possible source of energy for the limbs.
However, we see people who oppose the Tzaddikim still receiving energy. How is this possible?
The Alter Rebbe answers:
והפושעים ומורדים בתלמידי חכמים
TRANSLATION: As for those who willfully sin and rebel against the Torah sages.
How do they receive their spiritual nurture and life? Spiritual life and nurture flow only where there is a desire to nurture and give life!
יניקת נפש רוח ונשמה שלהם מבחינת אחוריים של נפש רוח ונשמת
תלמידי חכמים
TRANSLATION: the nurture of their Nefesh,Ruach and Neshamah comes from the hindpart, as it were, of the Nefesh, Ruach and Neshamah of the scholars.
Nurture from “the hind-part” is like giving an object to an enemy.
There isn’t a true desire to give, but rather due to some external factor. The grudging reluctance with which he gives is reflected in one’s manner; he will turn away from his enemy, tossing the object over his shoulder. The same is true in our case. When spiritual energy is given unwillingly, it is described as coming from “the hind-part” of the giver
— an external level of nurture.
Nevertheless, even those who rebel against the sages receive some measure of spiritual nourishment from them. For every soul, without
exception, must be bound up with its root and source, as explained earlier. However, the level of nurture they receive is from the “hind-part”
of the neshamos of the sages.
Thus, we see the Rebbe is essential to our connection to Hashem. Just as a limb must receive its vitality from the head, and only the head remains directly bound to the source within the father, so too the “head”
of the Jewish “body,” the Rebbe, is the essential channel for connecting to our Father, Hashem.We have learned from Tanya Perek 2 that all the limbs are connected with their source – the drop from the father’s brain – and that the con-
nection is never broken. This is due to the limbs being connected to the brain (of the son) – which in turn is connected to its source (the brain of the father). We used this moshol to understand that the Neshama, even after being clothed in a body, is literally a piece of Hashem and remains connected to Hashem. However, because of the Neshama’s descent, its
connection to Hashem isn’t apparent. This is why we need the tzaddik, whose connection to Hashem is apparent (like the son’s brain in
the moshol). It is through the tzaddik that the neshama’s connection to Hashem becomes apparent.
This is, in essence, the difference between an “intermediary that separates” (ממוצע המפסיק) which is not the topic of discussion, and an
“intermediary that connects” (ממוצע המחבר) which is how we describe Moshe Rabbeinu as well as the Nasi of each generation.
What is the difference between an “intermediary that separates” and an “intermediary that connects”?
Imagine a simple student who wishes to learn from a brilliant teacher. The student’s own intellectual capacity is very distant from the teacher’s, to the extent that he cannot understand the lesson on his own. The gap between them is insurmountable – the student will never be able to fully grasp the depth of the teacher’s intellect; he simply cannot relate
to it.
In such an instance, a “meturgeman” is used. A meturgeman is a type of translator who adds explanation. The meturgeman has a greater intellectual capacity than the student, so he is able to comprehend the full depth of the teacher’s intellect, but his intellectual capacity is
less than the teacher, so he can relate to the student. Once the meturgeman fully comprehends the teacher’s words, he can then explain them to the student on a level that the student can grasp.
This moshol teaches us several points:
A) The gap between the student and the teacher remains; the meturgeman has bridged it, but not removed it. The student’s only con-
nection to the teacher is indirect – through the meturgeman.
B) The teaching given over to the student by the meturgeman is on
a much lower level; were it to be on the original level, it would remain incomprehensible to the student. The meturgeman must simplify and
compress the teaching in order for the student to understand.
C) The meturgeman must be a separate entity from the teacher – if not, he wouldn’t be able to help the student. His entire advantage lies
in being a separate entity, that allows him to comprehend the teachings and then simplify and compress them so that the student will un-
derstand. However, a meturgeman is an “intermediary that separates.”
True, it is an intermediary, for it connects two things, but the intermediary remains a third, separate, party.
In this instance, the teacher and student connect indirectly, passing through the third party. Even the teaching is indirect, because it
doesn’t retain all of its original substance, but is instead simplified and
compressed.
On the other hand, an “intermediary that connects,” can be compared to very large hall filled with wise students, who are fully capable of comprehending his words. However, due to the size of the hall, the teacher’s
voice cannot carry to the farthest edges. To remedy this, a microphone
is installed, which makes the teacher’s voice audible even to the students seated farthest away.
Once again, there are several important points:
A) The students have a direct connection with the teacher. The “gap” between the students and the teacher is merely technical – due
to the size of the room – and is remedied by the microphone, which enables the students to hear the teacher’s own words.
B) The teaching that they hear isn’t lessened or simplified by the intermediary – it is the very same teaching that the teacher is saying,
the microphone merely extends its reach.C) The microphone isn’t “a separate entity” which uses its own intellect to comprehend the teaching and then transmit it; the microphone is a machine whose entire purpose is transmitting the teacher’s own words.
This is an “intermediary that connects” – a המחבר ממוצע ;its entire purpose is to directly connect the upper and lower levels, without al-
tering in any way what is being brought down to the lower level. This is due to the fact that it is not an entity separate from the higher level, but
rather it is totally nullified before the higher level, and serving only to express the higher level.
This is the type of intermediary that is mentioned in the Torah, regard-
ing Moshe Rabbeinu, as the posuk states:
פָּנִ֣ים ׀ בְּפָנִ֗ים דִּבֶּ֨ר יְהוָ֧ה עִמָּכֶ֛ם בָּהָ֖ר מִתּ֥וֹךְ הָאֵֽשׁ׃
אָ֠נֹכִי עֹמֵ֨ד בֵּין־יְהוָ֤ה וּבֵֽינֵיכֶם֙ בָּעֵ֣ת הַהִ֔וא לְהַגִּ֥יד לָכֶ֖ם אֶת־דְּבַ֣ר יְהוָ֑ה כִּ֤י יְרֵאתֶם֙ מִפְּנֵ֣י הָאֵ֔שׁ וְלֹֽא־עֲלִיתֶ֥ם בָּהָ֖ר לֵאמֹֽר׃
TRANSLATION: Face to face, Hashem spoke with you at the mountain out of the midst of the fire… (and I stood between Hashem and you at that time, to tell you the word of Hashem, for
you were afraid of the fire, and you did not go up on the mountain) saying, “I am Hashem… etc.
Rashi explains: Rabbi Berechiah said, “So said Moshe: ‘Do not say that I am misleading you about something that does not exist, as an
agent does, acting between the seller and the buyer, [because] behold, the seller Himself is speaking with you.’” (Pesikta Rabbasi).
How do we reconcile this? If “I stood between Hashem and you,” then how can it be “the Seller Himself is speaking with you?”
Based on the above explanation, we can understand this: Moshe was an “intermediary that connects,” like the moshol of the microphone. In the words of Chazal, “The Shechina spoke from his throat.”
In the Moshol:
A) The lower level is directly connected with the upper level, but is unable to directly receive from it, and the intermediary allows the
lower level to receive from the upper level.B) The lower level receives exactly what the upper level gives, in its original form.
C) The intermediary has no independent identity other than transmitting from the upper level.
So too in the nimshol:
A) The Yidden have an essential bond with Hashem – each Neshama is literally a piece of Hashem – but because of the Neshama’s de-
scent into the world, it’s “difficult” for the Yid to receive directly from Hashem, as the Yidden told Moshe,
וַיֹּֽאמְרוּ֙ אֶל־מֹשֶׁ֔ה דַּבֵּר־אַתָּ֥ה עִמָּ֖נוּ וְנִשְׁמָ֑עָה וְאַל־יְדַבֵּ֥ר עִמָּ֛נוּ אֱלֹהִ֖ים פֶּן־נָמֽוּת׃
“TRANSLATION: You speak with us, and we will hear, but let Hashem not speak with us lest we die.”
This is analogous to a student sitting on the back bench in the large hall: in truth, he can hear and understand his teacher; the only thing
preventing him from doing so is a technical concern – his distance from the teacher.
The same is true in regard to the Neshama. The Neshama is distant from Hashem when it enters this world. This distance is an “out-
side concern,” which prevents the Neshama from “hearing” Hashem’s words, “Lest we die.” Therefore, a Yid needs a “microphone” – he needs Moshe Rabbeinu who on the one hand, is human, in the physical world, and on the other hand, remains unchanged by this world; he is totally nullified before Hashem. Therefore, he can enable the Yidden to hear Hashem’s words, not as a “meturgeman” but as a “microphone.”
B) The Neshama absorbs exactly what Hashem gives, without being lessened by the intermediary. In the words of Chassidus, “The in-
nermost, essential level of Or Ein Sof is brought down to and absorbed by the Neshamos of Yidden.” It is brought to them through Moshe.
C) Moshe isn’t an entity separate from Hashem, rather, he is nullified before Hashem. Therefore, he can serve as an intermediary whose
entire purpose is to transmit Hashem’s words, in their original form, to the Yidden.This is analogous to a funnel, which receives the liquid on one side and emits the liquid on the other side, albeit on a smaller scale, which
allows the liquid to enter smaller containers.
In a nutshell: an “entity which separates” does not allow the upper and lower levels to connect, it always remains a third party between the
two. An “entity which connects” allows the lower level to connect with the upper level, for the intermediary isn’t a separate entity.
An “intermediary that connects” – ממוצע המחבר is a proper description
of Moshe Rabbeinu and his successor in every generation.(In the interest of being honest, most of this was not written by me, but rather by “The Vaad”. )
@DaasYochid,
“I’m still waiting for SHY to explain the sichah about atzmus araingshtelt in a guf.”I’m quite busy, and something like that takes a lot of time and effort, in addition to looking up certain things. I will bli neder, post something on it later today or tomorrow, iyh.
@DaasYochid,
“Why so secretive?”
Not secretive, I just don’t have the time to type up an old controversy. If you have Otzar HaChochma, look up נתיבים בשדה השליחות and go to Kuntres Yom Tov Sheini.@TOI,
“How do you seriously farenfer the rebbe claiming to be watching you? And giving you chiyus? ”I guess when I post a makor in Lashon HaKodesh you don’t read it. Tanya Perek Bais, about getting Chayus from a Tzadik.
And the Rebbe watching you? Well people have no qualms saying that about their parents in Olam Haemes. If I believe my Rebbe has Ruach Hakodesh, he’s probably watching me to. And if he’s passed away, he can see me from Olam Haemes.@Neville,
“It seems like circular logic: “What’s a Chabad minhag that’s A”Z? The pillow picture. Why is it A”Z? Because it’s practiced by a people we suspect of avoida zara.”
Very well said. What I was trying to express for a while. Even if it seems foreign and strange, it doesn’t make it A”Z.@Rso, @CS,
Regarding picture at the bris:
I did say that it’s conceivable that people do it, bit it’s not Minhag Chabad. CS, because “some lady” decided to put one under your son, means nothing. The fact that you didn’t know yourself about it, only proves that not everyone does it.
@RSO,
Chabadpedia is some Meshichist site, has some good things, and a lot of nonsense. What the Rebbe did or didn’t tell someone in Yechidus, or even in a private letter, isn’t kovea Minhag Chabad. What I heard personally from one of the Gedolei Harabbanim in Lubavitch today is as follows:
1. Minhag Chabad is based on Sefer HaMinhagim, written in the early years by the Rebbe.
2. Any change to a Minhag, or creation of a Minhag, must have the following:
A. It must be a clear instruction from the Rebbe applying to this specific issue, to everyone.
B. It must be personally written by the Rebbe.
C. A non mughe (non edited by the Rebbe, but someone’s transcript) sicha of the Rebbe isn’t strong enough to change or create a Minhag.
D. If the Rebbe wanted us to do a certain thing, he would tell us clearly, not hint to it, or tell one individual.
(Heard from Rav L. Schapiro, I don’t take responsibility for 100% accuracy).In general, Meshichistim and those so inclined, have more propensity for strange minhhagim with dubious sources, while “anti Meshichistim” try stick with what the Rebbe actually instructed us. A good case in point is Yom Tov Sheini for those visiting or learning in Chutz Laaretz or EY. (I won’t expound on this, if CS knows what I mean, good) Another, although not along the Meshichist – Non Meshichist divide, is the brocha on half hallel. (Again, CS, if you know what I’m referring to, good, if someone else wants to know, too bad)
Interestingly, when I was shown different places the Rebbe spoke about the picture of the Frierdiker Rebbe, (in different Kovtzim, ) many of the ones that CS quoted weren’t there, like the ones from someone’s Yechidus. In general, if the source of something is “Bais Moshiach Magazine” I’ll take it with more than just a grain of salt.
@Syag,
“I am not sure why but it seems you think people are asking why it’s okay to ask rebbeim for brachos. I am pretty sure that is a fairly common concept, the question has been, if you will go back to check it again, how you are thinking you have gotten a response from someone who is no longer alive? We all daven by kivrei tsaddikim and HASHEM answers us. not the tsaddik. Even if He answers THROUGH the tefillos of the tsaddik. This idea of getting present day responses to present day specifics as if he answered is the question. And it is not a chassidus question as they do not do this once the rebbe has died.”Gotcha! 😆
@Syag,
“I actually am not bringing questions nor am i commenting on the responses.”
I refer you to page three of this thread.“You’re a funny guy”
Well thank you.@Syag, (how ironic that you’re such a frequent poster with such a name)
“Why cant you understand the premise of this whole thread – people who DO NOT agree with or approve of Chabad practices are ASKING for clarity on some of the points they HAVE BEEN TAUGHT are problematic.”
I get that. When I try tell you that something isn’t Chabad practice, you just get upset, this is not your first time making this comment. I’m very happy to explain legitimate Chabad Hashkofos to you, but there’s no need to lash out like that when you don’t like the explanation.
Talking about reaching out to other people, when I meet non religious Yidden, they are almost always more respectful than you are to unfamiliar customs. I think it’s your personality, not your hashkafos. If chas vesholom, you were the non religious guy who’s door I knocked on, you’d be the guy who throws me out even before I get to say what I’m doing there.
@Mods,
“You asked what his/her problem was with it and he/she is answering your question.”
He or she stated that she/he believes it to be A”Z or close. He didn’t say why it is, or what qualifies him to determine if it is. That’s not answering my question. I asked what is wrong with it, and he says “well of course, it’s A”Z”. Not a very coherent argument.@RSO, (and whoever else asked about it)
Regarding the picture by a bris, you thought it was absurd that I hadn’t heard of it before, well I haven’t yet made any brisim, but I have been to several, (siblings, nephews, cousins) and have never seen that done. I’ve asked friends as well, all of who never heard of this before. So we’re left with 3 options.1. You’re making it up, claiming to have been at Lubavitcher brissim and witnessed it. This is quite possible judging by the hate you frequently display here.
2. You did see it happen. It’s possible, I wouldn’t put such customs past some clueless people who make up their own Minhagim at whim.
3. I’m lying, and in fact I’m a mohel too and see this all the time.You decide.