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I should have written this a long time ago, you want to argue that Nosi HaDor is a made up concept? Fine.
(Why do I believe in made up concepts? Because of who made them up. )
But don’t claim “The Rebbe made it up” because it was used before the Rebbe was born.
See Tanya Perek Bais:
וכן בכל דור ודור יש ראשי אלפי ישראל, שנשמותיהם הם בחינת ראש ומוח לגבי נשמות ההמון ועמי הארץ, וכן נפשות לגבי נפשות, כי כל נפש כלולה מנפש רוח ונשמה.(Note it doesn’t use the words Nosi HaDor, just the concept)
RSO,
In response to your question about the description of the Rebbe and Rebbetzins Chasuna in Warsaw, I located the original description written by Reb Elya Chaim Althoiz, in a beautiful, poetic and flowery Loshon HaKodesh rarely seen today. For those of you familiar with that style, there is nothing strange in it at all, and nearly every flowery description is a paraphrase of a Posuk or Maamar Chazal. I’ll post here the lines that concerned you:ופתאום הנני בגן ירוק פורה צומח ופורח כמו בימי האביב הטובים והבהירים, והכלה המהוללה היפה בנשים יושבת בתוך הגן הזה מקושטת בטלית נאה, מהודרת ברוב הדרה, פני’ הלבן כסיד ברוב חן ויופי עם יראת אלקים, נשקף כמו שחר, מהיער פרחים ושושנים עם ערוגות הבשם אשר סבבוה מכל צד ופנה.
It’s also interesting to note that all the great Gedolei Torah and Admorim of Poland were present, and you can see the great respect they were accorded, and the titles that Reb Elya Chaim writes for them. He specifically dwells on the presence of two great Polisher Gedolim – the Radziner Rebbe (who was honored with reading the Ksuba IIRC) and HaRav Menachem Zemba HY”D.
To preempt the questions that will no doubt follow, I’ll show where Reb Elya Chaim took various phrases from:
כלה המהוללה:
Standard wording among Klal Yisrael.
היפה בנשים:
Shir HaShirim 6:1
רוב חן ויופי עם יראת אלוקים
Clearly a play on words from Eishes Chayil
שֶׁקֶר הַחֵן וְהֶבֶל הַיֹּפִי אִשָּׁה יִרְאַת יְהוָה הִיא תִתְהַלָּל.You could have realized all this yourself RSO, instead of me going digging to find the original wording, but you first try look at everything concerning Lubavitch in a bad light. I instead, used my common sense and said that the original Loshon HaKodesh is probably paraphrasing Chazal as is so common in Rabbonishe writing.
YR,
While I strongly disagree with Reuven Wolf, it’s a stretch to call him an Oved Avodah Zara. Being wrong, and being a fool doesn’t make one an idol worshipper. Kol Sh’kein for CS, she is definitely not an idol worshipper. I have seen a letter (it was quoted here earlier) from HaRav Ahron Feldman of Ner Yisrael where he strongly criticizes Mishechistim, but not once does he go so far to call them Ovdei Avodah Zara. That is a gross exaggeration, a slander. Avodah Zara is one of the three most severe Aveiros, don’t throw it out on everyone you disagree with, that’s plain Motzi Shem Ra which is a serious Aveirah too. Trust me, I have more beef with Mishechistim than any non Lubavitcher here, but I’ll stick to true Taanos, not absolute falsehoods.Mr Sam,
Do I sound like an oved A”z to you?YR,
There are several Piskei Din, with many many names on them. Many are said to be forged, and many are random Rabbonim of tiny Yishuvim that nobody ever heard of. Quite a few major non Lubavitch Poskim have their names on it, IIRC Rav Menashe Klein Z”L was on it. I’m sure much of it is forged, and this “Psak” doesn’t carry much weight within Lubavitch.YR,
I missed your question. Please repost it.Howzat,
I wasn’t actually suspecting you of posting on Shabbos, but it did look strange enough to bring it up. Thanks for clarifying.
I don’t think it’s productive to this discussion to raise issues of particular communities that virtually no one here is familiar with, aside from us two, and what CS and possibly others have heard from friends. I am not a woman, and I never studied in Bais Rivkah in Melbourne, so I am the wrong person to give a definitive answer on their uniform policy, I’d like for CS to ask her Australian friends who would have learned there for the real story.Regarding you not being interested in what Chassidus Chabad has to offer after you see the standards of Lubavitch in Australia, I can’t blame you, it’s a hard sell when the salesman doesn’t act the part. Interestingly, Melbourne is probably one of the only large Chabad communities where there is no formal organized attempt to teach Chassidus to other frum people, as in Monsey, Boro Park, Lakewood, Eretz Yisrael, London, Canada, and some other places I’ve probably missed. I think the reason is because they would have very little success. However, there are some very Chassidishe Yidden in the Melbourne community who are role models of the effect that Chassidus can have on a person, people who are exceptionally refined and – dare I say – holy Yidden. There are several huge Talmidei Chachomim among Chabad in Australia, and world renowned Poskim. I’ll drop a few names in no particular order:
R. Yehoram Ulman, Sydney Bais Din
R. Moshe Gutnick, SBD.
R. Mordechai Gutnick, Melbourne Bais Din
R. Faitel Levin, Melbourne, one of the greatest Halachic authorities of our time, and Bli Guzma, the greatest Talmid Chochom in the continent of Australia.
R. Binyomin Cohen, Rosh Yeshiva of the Yeshiva Gedolah, and a tremendous Talmid Chochom.
R. Ahrel Serebryanski, Head Shliach of Australia, and an actual Heilige Yid.And many more names of younger up and coming Rabbonim. If you look around, you shall find. If I lived in Australia, I’d be able to tell you more. And of course, there are the Chassidim who helped establish Frumkeit in Australia, and Chabad in particular, R. Moshe Feiglin, a Chassid of the Rebbe Rashab who arrived in Australia in 1912, and has the distinction of meriting that all his descendents are Shomrei Torah, something no one else who arrived at that time can claim, to the best of my knowledge. R. Zalman Serebryanski, who arrived in the 40s, and is responsible for much of Frum life in Melbourne today. R. YD Groner who came in the 50s and accomplished tremendous things, and not just in the Chabad community.
So while currently Lubavitch in Melbourne may not be a shining light of Chassidishkait, bear in mind that a vast majority of it’s adherents are Baalei Tshuva, and that if not for the work of those elder Chassidim from the 40s and 50s, there would be far fewer frum people in Melbourne today, not just in the Chabad community.
RSO,
Never heard the quote you are referring to, but I’m going to guess that it was taken from someone’s diary in Loshon HaKodesh, and the writer paraphrased Chazal and wrote something about “Kallah Noeh”. Please post the exact words and their source.
Howzat,
If you were in Australia when you posted your first post, it would seem to me, that you were Mechalel Shabbos R”L.Uniform is officially not Tznius? Not true. Individuals definitely play around with their uniforms, but I don’t believe that the official length is above the knee.
The episode you describe with 12th grade boys and girls – I have never heard of it, could be it’s true. I’m not here to attempt to defend it.I too, have been to Melbourne and know the community extremely well (better than you, Howzat) and I also know Crown Heights very well, I have lived there, not just visited. And no, there’s not much to compare at all.
Kaiser answered the questions about Sheva Mitzvos well, if you learn the Rebbes Sichos about it, and see various Maanos, it’s clear the Rebbe never intended for people to waltz down the street accosting eino yehudim at random and shoving cards in their face, rather, as the Rebbe explicitly said, those who have day to day contact with non Jews in their environment, must try teach them about their 7 general Mitzvos. (There are far more than 7, seven are the general Mitzvos, but many more branch out of them. I’ll add Mekoros when I get a chance).
As far as Chabad Rabbonim and their opinions whether or not the Rebbe Zy”a will be Moshiach, I’d venture to say that majority aren’t convinced of that, but don’t necessarily make their opinions public. Rabbi Berel Levin wrote much about this, and he came to the conclusion that according to Rambam and the Rebbes own Sichos, the Rebbe cannot be Moshiach. Rabbi Immanuel Schochet A”H stated publicly that it’s highly unlikely for the Rebbe to be Moshiach. I have many other names at the tip of my fingers, but I hesitate to name people who are among the living if they haven’t publicly stated or written so.
Aderabe, CS, please say what you have heard from your Australian friends, I don’t know everything.
YR, I have no hangups about helping frum people, I have done so with much pleasure in various places around the world, and all Shluchim I know have done the same. I just don’t like it when people give this as an example of why they like or appreciate Chabad, because they found food in Bangkok or Bangalore, we’re not there for that.
@Howzat,
Lubavitch in Australia is absolutely not indicative of Lubavitch in other places, the Australian community is quite far away, and very behind in the ways of Lubavitch in the US and Israel.
And, as you say, they did open a new Cheder, under the auspices of the Head Shliach Rabbi Aaron Serebryanski, may he have a Refua Shleima.I say this not as a last resort defense, but as someone who intimately knows the community you are speaking of.
Secondly, surely you know that the Chabad Centers in Asia and around the world were not created to serve you, a frum You with a hot koshere meal. For this, the Rebbe didn’t send his best and brightest to distant Bangkok or Japan. They are there for the Yid who otherwise won’t be eating Kosher food, and who is visiting Asia for reasons other than his stopover to Europe or Israel from Australia.
CS,
That’s very cheap. Because you don’t like my opinions you don’t get to invoke “Detroiter Bochurim”. Clearly, you’ve never met a Detroiter, plus, I never learned in Detroit a day in my life.And, how dare you call the Rebbe not normal? Because you choose to twist his words, and then decide it’s not normal, and then not normal becomes a positive thing?
If you want an apology, then I apologise.
Wolf is not mainstream at all. Even though CS may think he is, or respect him.You want a Machaa? I’ve given my opinions hundreds of times here, and won’t continuously rehash all I have previously said. Talking about apologies, Neville still hasn’t apologised for claiming I don’t learn Shulchan Aruch.
CS,
You don’t stop amazing me. Why on Earth would you quote a nut job like Mr Wolf? For heaven’s sake, he spoke at the fake Tzfati Kinus!!!Do you really think that his Shtreimel would impress people here? Or his messed up Deos?
“fasting before shachris,”
The Tzemach Tzedek is a serious heavy hitting Posek. Ever opened up a Shu”t Tzemach Tzedek? Or Chidushei Tzemach Tzedek Al HaShas?
(As an aside, did you even know that our Rebbeim wrote Chidushim Al HaShas? Did you know that the Rebbe has volumes of Chidushim Al HaShas?)Neville,
After you accused us of not learning Shulchan Aruch, I posted some questions to you to determine if you even learn Shulchan Aruch. I still haven’t received an answer.
The questions were:
What are the שבעה טעמי הדחה קמייתא?
What are the two reasons for איסור דבוק?
Do we say אין בישול אחר בישול בבשר בחלב?These are fairly easy questions that anyone who is Osek in Shulchan Aruch should be able to answer, or at the very least, find the answer to.
I skim through the stuff written here once or twice a day. I’m not going to bother responding to much, mainly due to lack of time. Also, regarding davening to Hashem at the Rebbes Tziyun, reference one of the earlier threads from months ago where I wrote about it at length.
Neville,
Many Chassidim do indeed Paskin like the SA HaRav, or at least give it more weight. That is not my opinion, that’s established fact, you can ask any Chassidish Rov. Also, even when Satmar was extremely angry with Lubavitch, so much so they wouldn’t use Kehos Seforim, they actually printed their own edition of SA HaRav.
I never said that Tanya has more Kedusha than a Chumash, nor a Gemara, all I said is that some Chassidim won’t place any other Sefer on top of a Tanya, that includes even the Rebbes own Seforim, such as Likkutei Sichos or Maamarim. There is no Halacha that says that one MUST place certain Seforim on top of others.
Seriously, there might be some actual issues in Lubavitch, but this isn’t one of them. It doesn’t contradict any Halacha not to place a Chidushei HaRashba (for example) on top of a Tanya. Tanya was and is revered by almost all Chassidim, not just Chabad as an extremely Heilige Sefer. It’s not about generations and Achronim and Rishonim, it’s about the Sefer itself. No one has a problem placing a Ketzos on top of a Shulchan Aruch HaRav for example. Or a Likkutei Torah (another one of the Alter Rebbes Seforim).
Halacha dictates that no sefer gets placed on top of a Chumash. Some individuals have a hergesh that dictates that nothing is placed on top of a Tanya, known as the Torah Shebichsav of Chassidus.
I’m going to invite you to read his words one more time, before I explain the simple English like a pre school teacher.
Syag,
Do you read English?
TT wrote very clearly:
“The Rebbe would famously take Tanya’s from on top of Chumashim AND Chumashim from on top of Tanyas”
If you can’t understand that, then I’m afraid you need a hard reset.Neville, RSO,
Will try get to it when I have time. I have a real life outside the CR:)1.
Unsure.
2.
No.
3.
No.
4.
Yes.
5.
False statement.
6.
You’ve twisted the original story. No one said greater, also was regarding הבל פיהם של תשב”ר“with this stupid comment (all litvaks, huh?) you just proved that you are no better nor different.”
I stand by that. I never said all Litvaks or all Lubavitchers, but you can definitely explain much of the animosity when you realize that many Litvaks truly believe we don’t learn any Torah besides for Chasidus and Shulchan Aruch HaRav. Neville didn’t even bother checking out the facts before saying something as crazy as that. Also, Neville (As of time of writing) still hasn’t answered my questions to show that he learns Shulchan Aruch as well.
@Neville,
I’m waiting for an answer to my questions, and an apology. If you can answer the questions, perhaps I’ll consider giving you Semicha. (Yore Yore, Yadin Yadin will have to be more thorough:))“But, which acharonim do you think Chabad learns from outside of Lubavitch? When they say they’re learning Shulchan Aruch, they actually mean Shulchan Aruch HaRav. If you read into Milhouse’s comment, you can see that they don’t learn the classic halachic meforshim, which were all written on the real Shulchan Aruch.”
Shows how little you know about Chabad… Obviously you don’t even know which parts are missing from Shulchan Aruch HoRav.
Would you like to test any Lubavitch Bochur after receiving Smicha on Yore Deah? At minimum, we learn Mechaber, Rema, Shach and Taz. I learned most Pri Megadims, many Reb Akiva Eigers, and lots of Gilyon Maharsha and Imrei Binah.
Neville, can you tell me what are the שבעה טעמי הדחה קמייתא?
Do we say אין בישול אחר בישול בבשר בחלב?
What are the two reasons from איסור דבוק?What absolute garbage and slander you talk without even knowing the facts. Do you know how much שיעורי רבי שמואל and חידושי רבי נחום we learned in Zal??
Now do you know why so many Lubavitchers are so wary (to put it mildly) of Litvaks??
@Neville,
“However, you really lose credibility trying to imply that the majority of Chabad is non-Meshichist. That’s a lie and you know it.”I haven’t done comprehensive scientific analysis and research, but I stand by what I said. Lubavitch is huge, and attracts many different people, and doesn’t throw out people who self identify as Lubavitch, perhaps unfortunately. (I say this fully aware of falling into the “No true scottsman fallacy”) What may be a huge number of people, is only a relatively small percentage of Chabad. All this BTW holds true for Lubavitch in the USA and other English speaking countries. This is definitely not accurate for Israel, כידוע לי”ח .
Neville, I truly do understand where you’re coming from, and it’s very easy to judge Chabad based on what you see online, and even by some people in person, but Chabad is much larger than what you’ve been exposed to. For example, the first time I came to Crown Heights (I’m not from anywhere near NY) I was appalled by what I saw going on, and the general vibe in the streets, a sentiment I’m positive that a lot of you here share, and many in Lubavitch share as well. And at that time, someone told me “Crown Heights is much more than what you see on Kingston Ave, if you look deeper, you’ll see a totally different neighborhood”, and slowly I came to see it. You can go into many Batei Midrashim during the day, and see people learning Torah, you can go at night and see people who have just finished work sit down to learn Gemara, you can visit Oholei Torah Bais Medrash and watch hundreds of Bochurim learning, and see the same in 770, during Seder. You just have to know where to look, and unfortunately the bad always sticks out more blantantly than the good. I went the other day to a Pizza store in Lakewood, and I was appalled by the standards (or lack of) of frumkeit there. But I know you can’t judge an entire community based off who visits the Pizza store.
@Neville,
Because Lubavitch is Emes.Are there problems? Yes.
Do I agree with Mishechistim? No.
But by and large, anyone I associate with isn’t so. As I said here months ago, majority of Lubavitch aren’t what you think bbased on reading posts by CS and different encounters you might have had with people.My opinions on the matter are well known to the veterans of this, and other threads. I don’t need to condemn Meshichistim on cue.
Don’t treat me like a Muslim who is always asked “will you condemn terror outright?” I have made my opinion well known here, and I’ll let others fill you in, or find my old posts.@TT,
Ezra HaKoifer? That’s a new one, I haven’t even heard of that before. Who is Ezra HaKoifer? Rabbi Shochat?
Do you make these names up at “Pinat Hachai” while making up your ridiculous nursery rhymes?
@Rockstar,
Yitzchak Ginzburg?? He is a loony Meshichist, and rumor has it that his followers (mostly disillusioned MO and others) sing Yechi referring to him.@CS,
I didn’t attack NP for not attacking you, and I don’t know where you saw something of the sort.
You are the one who believes that this did or feasibly could’ve happened with a Shliach, therefore you must try justify it. Firstly, if something is objectively wrong, no need to justify it. Secondly, you don’t have to believe it happened to then go and give it context and justification. I have no qualms saying that I don’t believe a Shliach said such a thing, and לו יצוייר that it did happen, that Shliach is a nut. Not very hard to call out such words.I’m not sure where you are going with the “Ahavas Yisrael starts at home” thing, that doesn’t change the *fact* that a Shliach is a representative of the Rebbe, as appointed by Merkos L’Inyonei Chinuch. That’s not debatable, that’s the exact system the Rebbe established, as directed by R Hodakov, and later, by R Kotlarsky. I’m surprised that today’s PC culture of “one can identify as he wishes” seems to have gotten to some Lubavitchers in this context…
@NonPolitical:
(Oh, the irony!)
Saying on doesn’t believe the Rebbe to be Moshiach and denying the Bias HaMoshiach are two very different things. If one doesn’t believe in the coming of Moshiach he’s a Kofer Bikkar, while one who doesn’t believe the Rebbe is Moshiach hasn’t committed any Aveirah.That being the case, Person #1 is not a Kofer, while Person #2, though he insists on Mehadrin Cholent, is still a Kofer. To quote the Rambam:
הַמֶּלֶךְ הַמָּשִׁיחַ עָתִיד לַעֲמֹד… …וכָל מִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ מַאֲמִין בּוֹ. אוֹ מִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ מְחַכֶּה לְבִיאָתוֹ. לֹא בִּשְׁאָר נְבִיאִים בִּלְבַד הוּא כּוֹפֵר. אֶלָּא בַּתּוֹרָה וּבְמשֶׁה רַבֵּנוּ.
I don’t think this is new information to you, so why exactly we’re you asking this question?CS,
I’m not sure why you gave an example of a crazy story from India etc, to justify the alleged comments of a supposed Shliach.
1. You can just say you wouldn’t say something crazy like that.
2. You don’t agree at all with such sentiment.
3. No Shliach you know would ever say otherwise think that.To make up a possible context to justify it is ludicrous. Let’s say a bitter guy come to my Chabad House and said those things, how can I tell him “better be frei than not believe the Rebbe is Moshiach”. Firstly, that’s not true, and you don’t think it is either, so why justify it?
Secondly, I’ve had open conversations with the kinds of non frum Israelis that visit India and such places, none of them believe the Rebbe is Moshiach, even if they take Chabads free food. Food is the way to the heart, not the brain:)
And this “Israeli Shliach not under Merkos” business, don’t make a fake story complete with fake characters to find a justification. The wacko Israelis with yellow flags and Yechi Yarmulkes in India (besides for Mumbai and Bangalore, which are real normal Shluchim) aren’t “Israeli Shluchim” they’re Israelis who self identify as Shluchim. You can’t be a Shliach “not under Merkos” it’s like being a US Marine not affiliated with the army. Every Shliach is under Merkos, if he’s not, he’s not a Shliach.To make it clear, such a statement is disgusting, and I don’t know any Lubavitch who would say such a thing. CS, you took the bait, someone makes up a ridiculous story, hoping you’ll justify it, and you did.
The Chabad Shliach in Vancouver, Rabbi Bitton has been contacted about this, it’s not his, nor does he know who it might belong to.
(Mods, please remove his phone number that I wrote earlier, he has already been reached many times, thanks)The Shliach to Downtown Vancouver is Rabbi Binyomin Bitton.
Chabad Tallis and Tefilin are quite easy to identify, there would normally be Rashi and Rabbeinu Tams Tefilin, and they would be large Battim. The Tallis would have no Atarah, just silk lining on the inside.
Hatzlacha!@CS,
I guess I am clueless. Never heard of step 3. It’s not printed in Merkos’s “Creating a Lubavitch Utopia – A Step by Step Guide”.Neville:
“You have, in fact, restated this claim every time you’ve tried to argue back against us. Just digging the grave even deeper”You read what you want to read. I think I’ll stop here.
אל תען כסיל כאולתו פן תשוה לו גם אתהHere we go again…
ChabadShlucha, with all due respect, you’re wasting your time. Someone who really wants to know what Chabad is all about, can:
1. Go to chabad.org.
2. Head over to their local Chabad Shul and speak with the Rov.
3. Visit their local (depending where you live) Lubavitcher Yeshiva, and speak respectfully with the Bochurim.And for those who can read Hebrew and have the Sforim, or at least Otzer HaChochma, or HebrewBooks.com, read some Tanya, have a look at קונטרס ענינה של תורת החסידות, or open up a קונטרס ומעין.
“This thread is NOT marbe k’vod Shamayim – perhaps the opposite?
DAYENU”After you make sure to tell everyone how bad Chabad is, it’s time to shut down the conversation.
Neville,
I take issue with your words. I have never defended TTs rhetoric, nor claimed that it has its roots in mainstream Chabad thought.
For the fourth time:
I said that certain things he knows show a degree of familiarity with Chabad. Those were:
1. His story about a certain Godol, which isn’t widely known outside Chabad.
2. His use of terminology such as “Kasheh of Tomchei Tmimim”.
If I start pretending to be from Lakewood, and I use some of their lingo, that would only prove that I have some familiarity with them, and if someone points out that I know the lingo, he is in no way defending any of what I said.Regarding the term Shofech Domim that TT used, whilst in Lubavitch that hasn’t been used for anyone, I’ve heard it said about certain Gedolim right here on YWN forums and comments. ואין פוצה פה ומצפצף.
While we’re talking about disagreeing or even criticizing Gedolim, MeiInyanei DeYomah, I see here in the CR, as well as in comments on YWN news articles about Anti Vaxxers, that some commenters have very sharp words to say about certain Gedolim due to them discouraging Vaccination. Specifically, a Godol from Lakewood ( not positive who that is, perhaps Rav MK, can someone confirm or deny?) and a Godol from Philadelphia, and his Rebbitzin, שיאריכו ימים. I haven’t seen a huge outcry on those people who say very bad things about them.
(Full disclosure – I’m vehemently Pro Vaccination, as we should all be. ואיכ”מ.)
TT:
“Wow. So something that was so choshuv by Rabboiseinu Nesieinu that it deserved a havtocho that someone who does it will not die without teshuva, you compare to an avoido zoro R”l. ”No, I’m saying that you seem to think that by virtue of once being a Lubavitcher or eating the Kasheh in Tomchei Tmimim you now have license to – in essence – slander the Rebbe, and slander other segments of Klal Yisrael.
And while we were on the topic, I made a point that we’re not out there to get people to eat Kasheh of Tomchei Tmimim, ie, become Lubavitch.
@Syag,
Whatever I say you will always twist my words. The fact remains, that TT evidently must have some prior intimate exposure to Lubavitch in order to be familiar with certain sayings and concepts. For example, “The Kasheh of Tomchei Tmimim” – you won’t find that online or on Wikipedia. One must have at some point been personally exposed to Lubavitch to hear things like that. Me pointing out that fact is no defense of TT, and my problem isn’t just with where he’s spouting his rhetoric, but his very way of thinking. Chassidus Chabad has no expectation on the rest of Klal Yisrael do don a Kapote and smash their hats, or eat the Kasheh of Tomchei Tmimim (seemingly, TTs version of sprinkling “holy water”).Shluchim aren’t out there to “convert people to Chabad” they’re there to influence people to increase in their Torah and Mitzvos. Hafotzas HaMayonois doesn’t mean making people Lubavitch, it means spreading the teachings of Chassidus to the general public, and that is not limited to Chassidus Chabad, other Chassidus also perfectly fits the bill, whether it be Noam Elimelech, Kedushas Levi or Sfas Emas, doesn’t make a difference.
“Stand proud and sing chassidei Chabad onu talmidei hoRebbe ashreinu”
I think you give yourself away here, as the correct words are Chayolei HoRebbe, not Talmidei. Talmidei was popularized (and perhaps invented by) Avraham Fried. Seems you heard of many Lubavitcher musogim from amol, but this song you know not from Lubavitch but from Avraham Fried. In what year did you “graduate” Lubavitch?
To clarify, this particular person whom TT named Shofech Domim isn’t called anything other than his name. The company I keep doesn’t refer to him as such, nor have I ever heard such a thing. But as Out of Towner I presume correctly assumed, if one were to have heard the story told about him that OOT alluded to, you would get the name “Shofech Domim” used by TT.
Again, I have never heard him called that in my life.Many of you are seriously twisting my words. I understand the reference just like OOT understood it, because he and I have both heard the same story circulated.
Neville, I do think TT is a troll, perhaps an ex Lubavitcher, and a well versed one at the. And even if he did once eat “The Kasheh (buckwheat) of Tomchei Tmimim, doesn’t give him license to Bashmutz the Rebbe like he is doing, regardless of whether he means to or not.
If you really hold your Rebbe in high regard, he doesn’t need to be Moshiach to be your Rebbe. Moshel Lemo Hadovor domeh, a wife who holds her husband in high esteem doesn’t expect of him to be the Posek HaDor, or Warren Buffet. (Whatever her priorities are). A Rebbe doesn’t have to be Moshiach in order to be a true Tzaddik.
TT, apparently your Kasheh in Tomchei Tmimim was spiked:)
RSO,
Goes to show that you’re not actually so familiar with Lubavitch:)
I never heard this person being nicknamed “Shofech Domim” but I got the inference right away.Mr “Tomim”,
Please do society a favor and crawl back into your cave in Tzfas. You’re an embarrassment to Lubavitch, and society at large. I don’t actually think you’re a Tomim, you’re probably a Tzugekumener trying to feel good about yourself.Also, Carpenter??