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1. They were also treasonous yet there are statues of them all over the US.
2. One correct point.
3. He was not a traitor to the Commonwealth of Virginia.1. That’s an opinion. I think it was more complex then that. Lincoln when visiting Richmond after the war asked the band to play Dixie because already then he said the Confederacy was inherently an American thing.
2. You have to be insane to be so unmagnaminious.
3. Texas v White was in 1869. Nice try.
4. Because then you will find out how and why the Southerners seceded, from their own POV. Of course, in a Cancel Culture society they would ban the book so that their POV is never heard. (Invisible Gorilla looks like an interesting read Ill try to get it).
5. See number 3 (its actually an interesting phenomena that Lincoln wasn’t considered such a bad guy in postbellum South. You can read Rav Ilowy’s hesped of him despite the fact that Rav Ilowy was very pro-South (he ran away from Baltimore to New Orleans). I think it had to do with the way Lincoln was killed. People tend to romanticize assassinated individuals (read Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar)).
6. Alternatively statues were put up in the 30s brcaus thats when the veterans began dying out and in the 60s because of the centennial. But in Cancel Culture we dont allow that kind of thought ch”v.
7. Thank you
8-9. Thats your point of view. According to the 1619 project everything is rooted in racism.This was discussed in other threads. I came to the conclusion that police feel like since racial profiling does work since you do find more illegal stuff in black cars than white cars, that gives them the right to do so despite the immense indignation this is causing to innocent people.
But if you are asking if police are more “brutal” to innocent people, you will need to go make studies about this. There isnt any national database on use of force incidents. There are mixed results from the data that we have now.
@moshefrommidwood
Although the OP didnt want to turn the thread into this, let me just say quickly that I think you are wrong. Congress hardly ever votes on social issues. Even if yes, there are four Democrats who are still anti abortion. On other social isssues Deutsch may even agree IDK (2nd amendment etc, Justice in Policing Act). Fiscally, he probably is just as liberal as the other Democrats (i could see him voting for the HEROES Act). Foreign Policy 95% of Democrats are old school. 59 out of 62 freshman democrats voted against BDS in 2019. Politics in many ways is still regional and if youre from NY you’rw going to agree qith 90% of your regional congressmen no mattter what you call yourself (i.e. repealing the SALT cap, pro immigration etc.)@שפתי חכמים
Out of curiosity (I don’t live in Brooklyn), who are the people running against him, who are their base and what are their chances?
Another point: the people who memorialize the Confederacy and the producers of Gone with the Wind are romanticizing the Confederacy and what they fought for. You can argue that it was all rooted in evil. But they claim otherwise. Or, in otger words, there is a healthy freedom of thought and debate that’s going on. By destroying the Confederate monuments and Gone with yhe Wind, they’re attempting to control thr narrative, forcefully end the debate, and end freedom of thought in the United States.
1. From 1865 to 2017, America didn’t consider the South treasonous.
2. There is a monument to John Andre in Tappan, NY
3. The South had a right to leave an evolved system which they never signed up to.
4. Read Jefferson Davis’ Rise and Fall of the Confederacy.
5. Lincoln was a war mongering President who had no right attacking the Southern states and killing millions of Americans to “preserve the Union”. (Fort Sumter was a Northern provocation. They had no right being in that area.)
6. Some of the statues may have been a protest of desegregation in the 20th century. If that’s true knock those down.
7. Certain statues such as of Forrest (began the KKK in postbellum South) may actually be representing the evil of White Supremacism. If this is true knock them down.
8. Robert E Lee was always and still is considered at worst a great american personality and at best an American Hero. Some people don’t like the deification of the general, but there is no doubt that he represents more than just a slave owber fighting for his rights to own slaves. It would do well for us to remember that we had people like him in our history. (And sinve were on Yeshova World, based on the documents that we have, he was MUCH more tolerant to his Jewish soldiers than Union General Grant was. Making sure that they were able to take a break on Yom Tov if I remember correctly. Getting Matzah.)
9.and tgat is the point of these “protesters”. They want you to think that every remembrance of someone in history is trying to represent evil since naturally every single person living 100 years ago is in some way ot another less liberal than today. Does FDR represent anti Asian oppression?1. What about statues of John Brown? Geronimo?
2. Stop comparing Benedict Arnold to Robert Lee. Arnold was a despicable human being who was about to turn in his country because he didn’t get the promotion he wanted. Lee on the other hand was offered a major promotion to entice him to stay but he felt like it was wrong.
3. Read Wikipedia’s page on Robert Lee and tell me if you still think he was a “traitor” and not a hero.People are emotional now. Wait a few weeks until things blow over.
My opinion about this is first of all filter out whatever police unions or community activists are saying. The police unions do not have the civiloans in mind just like the school unoons dont have the children in mind. Community activists should be ignored since I don’t know what their end game is (dehumanizing all cops is something that is so irrational that can only be understood in the context of a much larger attack on our way of life).
That being said, I believe that the way policing and criminal justice is done is cyclic: There is too much crime. More policing and arrests. Crime goes down. Too many cops in quantity and tok much militarization and aggressiveness on the street. Police Brutality. Less policing and arrests. Crime goes up…. I think this actually is a healthy situation to be in, because we tweek our system to be responsive to changing dynamics. Everyone here surely agrees that there needs to be a balance between broken windows theory policing and deescalation of police aggression.
Thie following is from the document Ilhan Omer uploaded:
“But what about armed bank robbers, murderers, and supervillains?
“Crime isn’t random. Most of the time, it happens when someone has been unable to meet their basic needs through other means. By shifting money away from the police and toward services that actually meet those needs, we’ll be able to get to a place where people won’t need to rob banks.
“Sure, in this long transition process, we may need a small specialized class of public servants whose job it is to respond to violent crimes. But part of what we’re talking about here is what role police play in our society. Right now, cops don’t just respond to violent crimes; they make needless traffic stops, arrest petty drug users, and engage in a wide range of “broken windows policing” behaviors that only serve to keep more people under the thumb of the criminal justice system.”
BTW I noticed that she retweeted someone that says that of cpurse she doeant mean to get rid of police all she means is Camden. So IDK which one she really means but based on the totality of all her wacky שיטות, ii am going with the police causes crime שיטה
Ilhan Omar uploaded a document on her twitter feed that there will be no need for police since people only do crimes sich as robbing banks because they have such a need, and by transferrin funds from the police to human services no one will NEED to rob a bank anymore.
I am not making this up.
Camden, NJ got rid of their rotten-to-the-core police department and recreated a new one. They are doing much better now. They didn’t have the issues that the NYPD had with the rioting.
@ Milhousr
What I think Ruevain is trying to do, is saying that it’s dichotomous to be anti-abortion but pro-police brutality against alleged murderers.
@ruevain
Ouch! Usually I cant stand whataboutisms but tahts a good one.
Those in the 17th district (rockland and nort Westchester) should know that there is a very good moderate democrat running David Carlucci against very left wing people (based on the loterature i received from them in the mail they think all tgat people care about in my district are social liberal issues such as abortuon gun contril etc. They do not know the moderate suburb people that live here)
What do you mean by abortions that are needed? If you mean mamzerim, maybe I am wrong but such abortions are just as immoral. If you mean when the mothers life is in danger, I dont think there are that kind of fundamentalists in the public sphere.
That being said, because of the horrible liberal pro abortion, many Republicans made a knee jerk reaction to consider fetuses as if they are alive already לכל דבר. (Georgia is giving its Child Tax Credit to unborn children just to make a statement against abortion). This isn’t our view either.
Someone in monsey:
If you make such a horrible accusation, you better back it up. What part of police being capable of brutality is not torahdig?? What?
And do the mods really allow such talk here? Can I call someone a ממזר? I think someone here deserves it.
What does systematic racism mean? Most of the people talking about systemic racism also say that the system has to be rebuilt, that capitalism is inherently racist, and the only solution is basically bolshevikism. I don’t think that’s what you mean. What do you mean?
The AG said today that
1. It will be difficult to convict on 2nd degree murder but…
2. This is in addition to the prosecution of 3rd degree murder charges. I think that means that even if they are unsuccessful with 2nd they can still convict on 3rd. But I am not a lawyer so I don’t know how that works.
3. The other officers were abetting him. One held down the knee one held down a different part of him and one made sure onlookers didn’t come near.Btw, you are saying that they cannot prove his intent. I am just curious how they ever prove a unpremedidated murder has intent. I am going to guess that they usually base intent on the method of murder. If so, kneing on someone’s neck isnt worse than fatally shooting someone in the arm. I am not a lawyer though.
Right when I heard the news I thought: Keith Ellison wants this man to go free so there should be more riots and chaos. Can we have the conspiracy theorists come out and back me up please
There is something wrong that some of the commentators here in the Coffee Room can’t keep separate the threads about racist police brutality and the bolshevic attacks against America (aka rioting and looting). No amount of looting justifies murder and a racist cop murdering a black does not justify a white kid “redistributing” the merchandise in a Lois Vitton store in Portland. What don’t people get about it??
I think there are two components here. (1) Why did the cop think it was appropriate to stop George Floyd and arrest him? (2) Why did they commit police brutality (aka murder)?
Although everyone is discussing the police brutality, I don’t know if police are significantly more brutal to Blacks than to Whites. I think cops that commit these heinous crimes have something that is wrong with them and police departments around the country must ensure that these kind of people are not allowed to work by them. There are a number of other remedies to police brutality which are being debated which I actyally would like to see what the oilam thinks about (e.g. repealing 50a whatever that means).
That being said, there is definitely a race factor when it comes to stopping and arresting black folks. And I have some anecdotes to prove it. (1) Ask your black middle-class law-abiding neighbor how many times he was pulled over while driving for no reason whatsoever. I know of a rich vlack person who lives in a upper class neigjborhood near Monsey who says he always gets stopped by the Ramapo PD for no reason. Senator Tim Scott (black Republican) said that in his first year in Washington, he was stopped six times for no reason. (2) For years NYC thought it was appropriate to do Stop And Frisk. Everyone here would understand that it would be anti-Semitic if NYC had a special program to deal with zoning law violations in Borough Park. George Floyd should never have been arrested in the first place. I am not suggesting like some liberals are that police should stop concentrating on high crime areas (as that leads to a vicious cycle of arrests – you are only arresting people in Black neihjbirhoods brcause that is all you see). We don’t have enough cops to put on every street corner so you ultimately must concentrate cops on worse neighborhoods. But that doesn’t give LEO the right to consider blacks inherently suspicious. That is racist.
Sean hannity is very upset about he murder that should tell you guys something
@ health
Are all the Cops throughout the Country that are marching with the Blacks spoiled Brats? I have yet to seen a single Cop defend the Murderers. The only People defending them no nothing about law enforcement Tactics.
The reason, I believe that frum people are scared of getting involved in the protests is because we are wired to be scared of blacks marching through the street. For example, yesterday “askanim” in Williamsburg warned people to stay far from Bedford Avenue where there was a peaceful march going down the street. Sort of like our strange fear of dogs.
Dear n0mesorah:
Oh yeah? What about Benghazi?
RULE OF LAW!!!
Anyone trying to create anarchy and lawlessness by intimidating whistleblowers should be held accountable!I am a little out of things, can you name names?
@a mamin
I know i shouldn’t be replying to trolls but…
Adolf Hitler wore clothing, so you are Hitler.
And the sign in Bohosh said even people that received a heter to inform
I could mention rabbanim that hold you can inform some fully and some only in limited situations. But you only want legitimate poskim and if they hold you can inform then yiu probably don’t consider them legitimate. Nice cath-22 you made there.
I have a feeling this will go both ways. People who are upset about the irresponsibility of some of these mosdos might boycott them for some time to come.
Corporations are people too. And propping up small businesses like the Republican SBA is crony capitalism. Big business is ultimately better for the consumer and should be supported first.
Mr addict: sorry, but crony capitalism IS a form of socialism. You are advocating for socialism.
I lost my access to LoHud but I did see that on May 4th, Monsey had 1,478 cases (Daily Voice). As of May 22nd, there are 1,628 cases.
The Mt Sinai data is publicly available?
הא גופא the problem is that the elderly will not understand. How many older people do you know that will gladly miss tfillah btzibbur when everyone younger than them are not. There are so many factors that should go into reopening, including psychological factors that people here think that we can ignore. (For the record, I personally am pro reopening – I will still listen to whatever the experts say because I know that I don’t know everything)
Where did you get your numbers from?