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pashuteh you haven’t been to E”Y in a long time, the circut boxes are outside the apartment doors in the hallway and anyone can go into them. One might also consider putting a lock on thei fuse box
This was a really beautiful post.
to anon:
I think what we can learn from the rambam is that a women should always be focused on her home. the home comes first. home meaning family (not the walls etc) and that a women best place is in the home I dont think we need to start ordering groceeries by internet etc and avoid going out altogether, but we do need to understand that a women’s place is in her home.
Pashuta- while I appreciate your attempt to make a distinction between chumrah/mihag and halacha, in this case I disagree with you.
1. Nodbody says women should dress ugly out of the house, rather her honor is in her house.
Can you provide a source that says that women should dress up when they leave the house?
2. There is a concept (which is halachic especially tznius) where keeping the rules only as specifically stated is not enough. There is something called ruach hatorah- not to be a minuval b’rshus hatorah. I think we all know this is very relevant to tznius. as there is even the concept of daas yehudis, things which are not written in the shulchan aruch but must be kept. An other example could be students copying from one another, it is not clear halchicly if it is technically genvas daas. (it might be in the case of college students but hard to make it for younger students as they are not getting an monetary compensation for their papers/tests this is a subject I have done qutie a bit of research on ) however, i think everyone would agree that this is not behaviour a jew should do. there are many other examples, where the Torah does not forbid something but it’s obvious that one is not suppose to do it. A mashal. If a husband and wife have a strong good relationship, the husband will know not to do (and to do) certain things with out his wife having to tell him and spell out specfically. Hashem told us eloyki elo sonah zima- Hashem loves kedusha and tznius kedoshim tehyu ki kadosh ani.
modernlakewoodguy: Just know you are in good company. Most ppl didn’t think DAvid Hamelech was Jewish. His own brothers didn’t consider him a possblity of being king, but as Hashem told Shmuel, Man see only with his eyes, but Hashem can see the heart of a person.
a lot of ppl dont even think about asking or have been brainwashed to think that not having a baby at any opprotunity is like murder. Dont get me wrong I think having a big family is wonderful (got a dozen of my own) but a person has to know where they are holding and ask. I have a close friend who had seven boys in seven years in a row. At the bris of the fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth baby the Rav of our neighboorhood suggested to her husband that they take a break. as the story goes they didn’t with out going into to much detail. . . . the kids and family are very often on the verge of collapsing. the house is disfunctional and it’s a chaval that these people were to frum to listen to their own Rav!
to lakewoodwife:
you bring much kedusha and nachas ruach to hakadosh baruch hu!
shyrbu kmoscha b’yisrael!!
you are a role model to all.
feif un:
before you comment and refer to covering hair and a kabbalistic connection. . . why don’t you read what Rabbi Mayer Schiller writes about the issue: “The Obligation of Married Women to Cover Their Hair,” Schiller, Mayer. JHCS, 30, 1995, 81-108.
You might learn a lot.
“maybe there shouldn’t be such a push to have kids back to back to each other. Just like it’s not fair to the mother who just had a baby to have to deal with toddlers days after a birth, it’s not fair to the other kids to have to share their mother with a new baby. The Gemorah says a women should wait 2 years between kids so that she will be able to nurse the other child before it needs to incubate another baby. “
I certainly agree with you. I don’t know if the way you quote the Gemearah is bdiyuk, but I think you have a good point.
anyone remember what BY was 40 years ago? How the principals and vaad horim went from door to door begging parents of all types to send their daughters to BY. From my class, we had daughters of admorim and girls who went to Bnei Akiva. and you know what, not one girl from my class is not frum. every single girl covers her hair. NOt everyone is “charedi” but the “off the derech” rate is zero.
Today a girl who isn’t perfect is garbage. Sara Schneirer a”h took all kinds of girls and was mechanech them. mechanech means teaching shapping not babysitting!!!
modern lakewood guy: you have made a historical post on Ywn coffe room!!
everybody agrees!
your point that snoods are more tzniusdig than shaitels is so emesdig!
Yashar Koach!
my rebbe always used to say “dan lchaf zechus but don’t be an idiot”
modern lakewood guy:glad you brought up this topic! kol hakavod to your wife!
why do people ask shalios to annyomous bloggers?
Don’t you have a Rav/Rebbitzen
for all you know we are all abunch of crazy people.
In E”Y an amazaing organization called Nitza founded by Ahava Winston was created to support women having postpartum issues and educate husbands and others about postpartum depression and prevention. They had an evening in Kiryat “Sefer with over 400 men attending! They have helped thousands of women get the help they needed. they have a web site which has a lot of info and for women in chutz l’aretz you might want to read up -at least you won’t feel so alone.
I don’t understand why if some one wanted to know if anything was tznius would they ask the ywn cofferoom clan? why don’t you ask you Rebitzin or RAv? since when do a bunch of annyonmous bloggers determine what is tznius? (even the Rabbi of Berlin, who at least knows halcha- by the way tznius is much more than halacha, but that’s another topic- doesn’t know you and can’t give you a psak on line or even an atza!
another point to think about: As the wife of an avreach who lives in EY we host sem girls all the time. they come over erev shabbos and from the minute they walk in the door don’t stop eating (except the anreix ones) till shabbos is over. don’t get me wrong I love having guests it’s a taste of home, but what are their parents paying for? so I have to scrap together money to buy a second loaf of fish? and than they want to use the phone, do laundry sometimes etc. . . these girls are thrown out of thier dorms all the time! not given the services their parents pay for.
I once asked girls from a really frum sem which hechsherim their were told to eat, they told me they which ones. I realized that these girls fathers would not approve of these hechsherim and I don’t belive that the principals of this sem would touch those hechshers with a ten foot pole. to earn a little extra money and buy their kids apartments in j-m they use all kinds of hechsherim for the girls. who supervises the kashrus in these palces? do you know who your daughter’s teachers are? which families they go to for shabbos? what hashkafas they are teaching you daughters. I have heard some crazy things from girls over the years. (usually the same things from the same sem every year)
zalman- are you saying that the shita of the Satmar Rav and Agudah are the same? that’s simply not true- their opnions are very different in both theory and application. Have you read the works of the satmar rav and those of the agudah? I have spent much time reading the original works and any one who had knows there is a huge division in hashkafa.
cantoresq: When making statements like that you should be more careful it take many many years after an event to really know what the outcome was.
Regarding Zalman’s post: “mariner: just a quick note about your examples. Rav Yoel was in the majority (by far) regarding his position against the establishment of medinas yisroel. “
that is utter nonsense. Majority of Charedi Jews (and Rabbonim) who lived in E”Y and US adopted the polcies of the Aguda which the Satmar Rav zt”L was strongly against. (and used strong language)
There are 70 pamin L’ Torah. Today it is impossible for any one group (litvish, chasdish, Eida Hachredis, Yu Derech, etc) to proove that they are the “true” group. People in the camp of the Eida Hachredis hold themselves to be the Torah true Jews, they reject whom the litvish camp calls “Gedolim”. The Litvish camp rejects Chassidim, Chassdim claim that they are the Torah true Jews. Get the picture.
As long as a group does not deviate from the shulchan aruch (which I know a lot of chabadnicks (not meshchistim) who adhear to the shulchan aruch as much as other chasidim (I won’t comment on zman tefilah) should be treated any differently.
Satmar want eveyone to recognize the greatness of Satmar, Mirrers want everyone to give their Rosh Yeshiva the most kovod. that’s the way of the world. We just need to respect the righ tof each yid to choose with in the perameters of halacha the drech which fits them. Can anyone proove that Rav Kook was wrong in his opnions on midnat yisrael? no! So let Rav Kooknicks be Rav Kooknicks and Chabad be chabnicks (or Chabkuk a new combination of Chabad, Breslov and Rav Kook) and you be you v’shalom al Yisrael.
ujm- I am not talking about teens I am talking about married men and women!
I don’t know cherrybin from before, but what he is saying here is true and a real danger. Using the internet is something which needs to be done with care- even for us adults!
by the way who says only frum people or jewish people read this sight, anyone anywhere could log in and giving out personal info is not smart.
I know first hand of several cases with tragic irreversable outcome. I don’t know that ujm and chachom’s references are I am relativly new here.
Why do you get so upset about hearing words of caution said to protect unsuspecting victims?
In a BY school I taught in, they brought a police detective to speak to the girls about internet safty. (In this school they understand that the reality is that the girls are on-line anyways, might as well educate them to be safe) One of the things he spoke about was preditors- they are real and they are out there.
It’s no joke.
Why do we need to judge him? He did a lot of great things. I don’t know why he did the “odd” things he did, but I do plenty of my own sins to account for, why dhoul I meddle with some one elses. Appreciate him for all the great things he did. v’amech kulam tzadikim. I personally knew him, from a distance that is, and a lof of people he was mekarev,who are mainstream litvish people, who you would not think were once hippies. He has many zechusim.
In terms of mimkomcha, the story I heard, possibly from SC himself or from one of his students (It was a long time ago and the story is fuzzy so don’t take it as 100%) was when SC sang it for the Amshnav Rebbe zt”l (I think) the Rebbe said that this tune is nusach from the beis Hamikdash.
The Big One,
I respectfully disagree with most of what you wrote. Tznius is something we need to work on and Joseph’s attempt to increase it is wonderful.
Maybe Joseph can continue to maintain his shefos and desire to bring more tznius in teh world and that even with all the great intentions one can still be nechshal and we can have compassion on those who don’t always pass the nisyon.
Thank you feif un- I think we all learned a lot from you post.
This has been a very intresting discussion. Lkauffman- it is evident that you are a very caring and insightful parent. I am sure that bezrat Hashem, your daughter will come back to her loving parents. Thank you for sharing with us and bringing up this topic.
Maybe some of you could shed some light on the following:
Kids who go off the derech, how come most of them (correct me if I am wrong) get into “trouble” ie drugs etc. . . .how come they don’t just lead a non frum life like “normal ” goyim, (workto make it to the top of the goyish world) why or what is it that drives them not only to be not frum, but to engadge in self destructive behaviour?
Thank you
levi123: Are you joking? Everyone (and I am a female) knows that Lycra is to tight and should not be worn. I think it’s easier for you to buy new shirts than it is for all men to close thier eyes and not look. Be honest with yourself.