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Sam2Participant
There are actual Heterim from as early as Rishonim for adoptive parents to have Yichud with and touch their kids from the line in the Gemara “Kol Ham’gadel Yasom Besoch Baiso” is considered like they actually gave birth to them (I don’t remember the exact final words from the phrase in the Gemara).
Sam2ParticipantThe leg is definitely stricter as everyone agrees that the area from the hip to the knee (at least) is the Shok. There are those that apply the 3-inch Heter mentioned above to the leg as well, though I have heard that that is much rarer. Pashut Pshat (in just what the word means) should be that the knee itself is okay as it is not part of the thigh. Presumably the reason we are so strict about the knee is that it would be very hard to have the knee uncovered and still have every bit of skin above the knee covered.
Sam2ParticipantRabbi, some hold that Z’roah means only the shoulder. Also, there are Shittos that since it says “Tefach B’Ishah Ervah” as well you are allowed a full three inches above the elbow.
Sam2ParticipantThe Gemara in this case agrees with that as we have cases of Amoraim that were “over” on this but it was allowed because they felt no attraction whatsoever. Although in this case the Ta’ama Dikra is actually Meforash. It’s only things that have a physical pleasure that are Assur. It’s not like Yichud where to be Assur you need Yichud Hara’oy L’Biah. Even if there is no chance of Bi’ah in this situation there still is an issur of Lo Sikr’vu. There is no Inyan of “Kirvah Hara’oy L’Biah” anywhere.
Sam2ParticipantI know a divorcee who got a Heter some several big Rabbonim but I do not know the precise details of why so I won’t post their names (I will try and find out if this case was special or what the reason was-she was only married for about a year and has no kids).
Sam2ParticipantMamash, the “selling” wouldn’t work. That would still be Lifnei Iver. I can’t sell my pet to a non-Jew for real if I know that he will spay/neuter it.
Charlie, how in the world did you get that P’sak? It doesn’t make sense. If you did it yourself it’s a clear Lav and as far as I know the vast majority (if not all) the Poskim hold that Sirus is Assur for a Goy also.
Wolf, as I said earlier it’s a Machlokes Acharonim between the Dagul Mervavah and the Chasam Sofer as to whether Basar Neveilah Bechalav is Assur Behana’ah or not (no one mentions Treifah but I assume that it would be the same Machlokes).
Sam2ParticipantThe Issur of Lo Sikr’vu may be to avoid leading to greater Issurim, but the fact remains that it is its own Lav (Lav 353 in the Sefer Hamitzvos) and that you would get Malkos for it by itself. The reason for the Lav does not necessarily matter as it is its own Lav.
Sam2ParticipantThere may be no reason not to wear a Tallis but there isn’t necessarily any reason to wear it, especially if you wear a Tallis Kotton all day anyway. Do you wear a Tallis all day long? Why not?
Sam2ParticipantRav Schachter claims that even if you don’t believe the research (where I heard he found 98% Treifos) then you should hold all milk is Assur because of the Shishim issue. And I think everyone would know it by now if Rav Elyashiv Assured all milk.
The principle is that Yotzei Min Ha’assur is Assur. I haven’t gone over this in a while and now that I think it over I may be confusing two things. I may be thinking that it doesn’t apply to something that is only Assur because of an Aseh. I have to look at this again. But either way, it’s very clear that we have more reasons to add Chumros to a Lav that is Mefurash Bikrah than one which isn’t. That’s an issue in Hanhagah, not Halachah. I would think that would be Pashut.
Sam2ParticipantI was told by one of Rav Schachter’s sons that this was the answer given to him by Rav Elyashiv as to why milk should be Muttar.
Sam2ParticipantRealize that “a perfect guy” is always a relative term. There is no objective perfection-not physically, emotionally, or spiritually. As long as you find the guy you were meant to be with he will be “perfect for you”. I’m sure if you see any woman who is super-happy with her husband she would not be that happy with another woman’s husband, even if the second womans is also super-happy with him. There is an intended partner for everyone. You would never be happy with whoever isn’t your own anyway.
Sam2ParticipantAnd to answer the % of Treifos, I only know what I have been told. I find it very hard to believe though that one area had 8 times as many Treifos as another without one place having many more Chumros or other reason not to eat a lot of the animals than others. Unless they feed the cows nails in Cholon or don’t properly take care of them (though to be fair I doubt they take care of dairy cows very well either) those numbers just don’t make sense. They could still be right; they just aren’t logical.
Sam2ParticipantI never claimed that it wasn’t D’Oraisa. However, an Issur Aseh has a lot more reasons not to be Machmir than a Lav. Your third point is a big problem for Rav Elyashiv’s Heter to drink milk. I will try and find that Rosh. He doesn’t say it is Assur. He says that it is still okay with Rov even though there isn’t Shishim. It is against what is brought down in Shulchan Aruch. Your analogy to the meat doesn’t work because there is no Kol D’Parish Miruba Parish. Since it is all milked together nothing is Parush. It’s all together. It would be like a soup that we find that we know is mixed together from all 10 stores. We know that if we found a soup Stam it would be Muttar because of Rov. But we also know that this soup has 10% not-Kosher soup mixed in. Any individual pot of soup would be okay (just like any individual bucket or glass of milk from a single cow). But once all the soup is combined together and we know for a fact that 10% of it isn’t Kosher (even if we don’t know for whatever reason which of the stores wasn’t Kosher) then the Issur isn’t Bateil and you wouldn’t be allowed to eat it.
Sam2ParticipantThe Rambam in Issurei Biah (I believe 21:1) says that Negiah is D’oraisa. No one really disagrees. The Ramban brings down a Deah that it might be D’rabannan but even he doesn’t hold like it. According to the Rambam it would be Yeherav V’al Ya’avor. However, the majority seems to agree with Tosafos that Negiah is it’s own Issur and isn’t considered Giluy Arayos and therefore would not be Yeherag V’al Ya’avor.
Sam2ParticipantI am not sure what your other quote from the Rambam here was doing. Since he Paskens (based on several reasons from the Gemara) that a Treifah won’t live and a Treifah can’t have kids, we can use that to verify whether or not that animal is a Treifah. However, he explicitly states that we only do this if an animal is a Safek if it will be a Treifah. If we know for sure that it is a Treifah (we saw the needle go through and come out the other side) then of course these signs won’t help.
Sam2ParticipantYou are not disagreeing with me; you are just missing one step. When I milk a cow, that milk is Kosher because of Chazakah and Rov. When I am looking at a container full of milk mixed from separate cows and I know for a fact that more than 1.6% of those cows are Treifos, then if I am going to use Lach Belach the milk would all be Treif because Lach Belach Min Bemino needs Shishim. Since we know for a fact that more than 1/60 are Treifos we cannot apply our early use of Chazakah and Rov is no longer relevant.
The argument you are making is correct. You are just ignoring the Halachik reasoning behind it. We cannot assume the milk is all Kosher just because when we milked each cow individually we said it was. Now that I can’t point to the individual cow that this milk came from I can’t use its Rov and Chazakah anymore. Rov is no longer relevant and a whole herd does not have a Chezkas Chayim because Anan Sahadi that more than 1/60 of these animals are Treifos. That is where the Rosh comes in. We treat this Ta’aroves as a Yaveish Beyaveish Veachar Kach Lach Belach (because each container that the cows were milked into is a Yaveish Beyaveish Ta’aroves) which the Rosh quoting the Ra’avad says you only need Rov, which we still have.
Sam2ParticipantI’m not sure what you mean about checking my sources. Your source just said exactly what I did. If you kill a terminal cancer patient you are Chayav Misah and it’s not Horeg es Hatreifah. If the reason he was a Goseis in the first place is because of something someone else did then (according to the Rambam at least) both are Pattur because neither did an entire act of murder.
Sam2ParticipantActually Flatbush, we should be very careful about that one. Yein Nesech is an Issur D’Oraisa against wine that was actually used in an Avodah Zarah service. Stam Yeinam is an Issur D’Rabannan on getting any Hana’ah from wine touched/handled by a non-Jew (whether an idolatrous one or not) which is a two-part Gezeirah-one so that we don’t intermarry (which is why Assur Bishtiyah) and another because it may have been used for Avodah Zarah (which is why Assur Behana’ah).
Sam2ParticipantEating a Treifah or Neveilah (not-perfect Shechitah adds a lot of animals we don’t eat) is an Issur D’oraisa. Eating milk from a Treifah is only an Issur Aseh of Yotzei Min Ha’assur so we can be much more Meikil and there is the fact that we can’t really verify it without losing the animal so we must rely on Rov and Chazakah.
Sam2ParticipantThat doesn’t sound right. We don’t use up to 40% of them for various Chumros and other reasons. But I don’t think that 40% of them are actual Treifos. Everyone I’ve ever spoken to has said that.
Sam2ParticipantAnd the Gemara in other places says people like that end up destroying the world because they do not know the proper Halachah but think that they do and therefore end up bringing improper Halachos into Klal Yisroel.
Sam2ParticipantBeef cows are nowhere near 40% Treifos. Depending on where it is, the percentage of actual Treifos ranged anywhere between 7% (South Africa a few years ago) and 15% (Boston in the 1960s).
Sam2ParticipantRabbi, you’re just wrong. Look it up. It;s even a Mchlokes in the Gemara whether or not a Traifeh can live for more than a year. These are Mishnayos in Chullin as to what is a Treifah and what is not. It is not at all dependent on length of life. Are you telling me that if I kill a Goseis I am Chayav Misah but if I kill a guy with twelve months to live because of a tiny hole in a lung I am Pattur? That’s how it works. It’s a Din that Horeig es Hatreifah is Pattur and it doesn’t matter how much time they have left to live. If the Treifah is curable but the hole he is still there he is definitely a Treifah. The Mishnayos don’t say that Treifos die, they say what constitutes a Treifah.
And milk with other milk is Lach. If I have 20 buckets of milk from 20 cows those are Yaveish compared to each other until they are mixed. Lach and Yaveish aren’t determined by states of matter, they are determined by how the Ta’aroves interacts with each other. That’s why flour is considered Lach because the Ta’aroves (of two batches of flour) is made up of combined, indistinguishable particles. So separate bottles of water that are indistinguishable but definitely not combined are considered Yaveish.
Sam2ParticipantAlso, a slight correction of a huge misconception. A Triefah does not mean that it will die within a year. A Treifah is very specifically defined as a creature with one of the specific issues mentioned in the third Perek of Chullin. Someone with cancer with 2 days to live is not a Treifah. Someone with a needle in their lung is a Treifah even if they live with it for 20 years. The modern issue is not “if a Treifah can live for more than a year is not a Treifah?”. Rather, the issue is “if we can cure the Treifah (sew up the hole or give medicine so that the body can do that itself) does the animal no longer remain a Treifah?”.
Sam2ParticipantWe can only assume that every cow we milk is Kosher based on rov when we milk a single cow then drink that milk. When we combine the milk from hundreds of thousands of cows and we know that more than 1/60 of all cows are Treifos then rov should not work.
The answer given (by Rav Elyashiv, Rav Chaim Kanievsky, and others) is from a Rosh quoting the Raavad that if something is Yavesh Beyavesh Veachar Kach Lach Belach (first it is a non-Lach Taarvoes and then becomes mixed in Lach Belach) then you only need Rov. Since each cow is still milked individually it starts out as a Ta’aroves of Yavesh Beyavesh, at which point it becomes Muttar, and then does not become Assur once all the buckets (or wherever wach cow’s milk goes first) are combined, even though it is now Lach Belach.
Sam2ParticipantOnly Rabbi Meir. And that was only because that was the social norm of the time of everyone who was Shomer Halachos. Look at the third Perek of Chagigah. It’s clear that those who didn’t observe some level of Taharah like that were viewed by the religious society as not meeting the religious standard of the time. I don’t know or care to guess at the sociological reasons why, but for whatever reason that was the case.
Sam2ParticipantAs mentioned above if you worry about Treifos you probably cannot drink milk at all. DA cows are not common enough that there should be anywhere near a Rov. If you are worried about Shishim then you probably should not drink any milk sold by a company that mass-produces milk. If you are going to really on everyone’s Heter that only Rov would be a problem (because it’s Yavesh Beyavesh Veachar Kach lach Belach) then DA isn’t a problem either.
Sam2ParticipantThen I would love to hear the rationale because there is no way to get around the Lifnei Iver part. The one brilliant plan I heard was to give it to a random non-Jew for a while or something without saying anything and hope they give it to a doctor to do it on their own. That way there is no Lifnei D’lifnei because the non-Jew is not responsible for Lifnei Iver.
Sam2ParticipantThere is a long discussion between Rav Mordechai Elyahu and Rav Eliezer Waldenberg brought down in the Tzitz Eliezer whether you can be Yotzei with the Ba’al Korei/ if you can read it once, do Targum once, and then be Yotzei Shomeah Keone with the Ba’al Korei. There are definitely Shittos that hold that the order is not Me’akeiv while most seem to hold that it is.
As an aside, the Shittah of the Ra’avan is brought down by several modern Poskim that Shnayim Mikra is just an Eitzah Tovah. Many B’nei Yeshivah who spend all of their time learning Gemara rely on this to learn Gemara instead of Chumash.
Sam2ParticipantOh, and the Chochmas Adam endorses having a pet (he may say dog explicitly) because it teaches people how to treat others. He does make a claim that having two or more pets is Chukas Hagoyim though.
Sam2ParticipantPet food on Pesach must definitely be free of Chametz. However, Basar Bechalav is not so clear. It is a Machlokes Acharonim between the Chasam Sofer (Assur) and the Noda Biyhuda (Muttar in the Dagul Mervava) as to whether Basar Neveilah Bechalav is Muttar Behana’ah. I personally do not understand how this argument exists since the Ramabam explicitly states (Peirush Hamishnayos Kereisos Perek 3) that it is Muttar. You should consult your rav as in some cases it me be permitted to have pet food with meat and milk in it.
There is no real Heter for spaying/neutering a pet as the P’sak is brought down that the Issur of Sirus applies to non-Jews as well and giving a non-Jew a pet to spay/neuter would be Lifnei Iver.
Sam2ParticipantKanai’m Pog’in Bo for a forbidden relationship is only by a Bo’el Aramis (having relations with a non-Jew). And the Mishnah from Sanhedrin only applies to someone attempting to force a Na’ara Me’urasa and only applies before the act is committed. Once the act has begun you have to take him to Beis Din.
Sam2ParticipantThe vowels as we see them today were created by the Ben Asher family and the Ba’alei Mesorah around the ninth century. We certainly had a tradition about how to pronounce everything long before that though. Historians disagree about how many rules of grammar the Ba’alei Mesorah created and how many they extrapolated from Chumash itself. We certainly have cases where the word and meaning stay the same but slight grammatical differences can cause slightly different pronunciations for whatever reason. For example, if you look at the Aseres Hadivros, the Tavs in Lo Tirtzach, Lo Tinaf, etc. gain a Dagesh Kal in Ta’am Elyon which they do not have in Tachton simply because the trop changed.
To answer your first question, as a Gabbai I was told that it is okay to assume that it is Ra’amses in 1:11 only because the language wants to add an extra syllable to the word to end the sentence (not like the Ibn Ezra) so that making a mistake between Ra’amses and Ram’ses would not be something I would need to correct a Baal Korei on (according the Ibn Ezra you would have to correct on that).
Sam2ParticipantWe have plenty of Minhagim apparently based on neighbors. What is customary among both Sephardim and Muslims most likely stems from the fact that they shared a region and a culture for a very long time. Neither is really based on the other probably.
Sam2ParticipantThe term Am Ha’aretz as used in the Gemara does not mean someone who is only unlearned. It also implies someone who is anti-religious at worst and willing to bend Halachah for their own means at best. There is a big Machlokes Tannaim (the famous part is in Brachos, don’t remember where, sorry) as to what someone has to do to be termed an “Am Ha’aretz”. But it was never meant to refer to the average non-Talmid Chacham. Sadly in modern times it has been changed to that usage.
Sam2ParticipantA Maimonedian-based rationalist would probably tell you remember their lives and use it as an inspiration to do better or to take on something new for yourself. A Chassidish-based/Kabbalistic-oriented person would tell you do daven in their Zechus or that they attempt to intercede with Hashem on your behalf.
Sam2ParticipantFeif Un, unless I am mistaken Rav Belsky’s article being Mattir all milk is not to say that any milk is Muttar with regards to the Issur of Chalav Akum. Unless it’s a separate article, his article is a respone to Rav Herschel Schachter’s shittah that bizman hazeh all commercial milk is treif (because we mix the milk from dozens of thousands of cows, of which more that 1.6%, or 1/60, are treifos).
Sam2ParticipantA tax the Gemara mentions is a tax solely to enrich the ruler and/or tax collectors. Taxes in places like America Bizman Hazeh are more like a Shutfus between all of the residents on a local, state, and national level because that tax money is used for what the government determines is best for its constituents. (And while that might not always be what is best for the Jews it still counts as a Shutfus because the government is intending to make the best possible choices from their point of view for the most people.)
January 14, 2011 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm in reply to: Mathematical Expressions in Sefira Counting #941759Sam2ParticipantYou were Yotzei Popa but it would not hurt at all to count again without a Bracha afterwards.
Counting in math should not count. Saying today is 16+1 is really just saying that today is the day after the sixteenth.
There is an interesting Beur Halachah in Siman 65 (I think, somewhere around there) where he brings down from a Ritva I believe that a language only counts as a language (other than Hebrew and Greek) if it is the spoken tongue by the majority of people is one’s country (it’s also possible that country can be made smaller here; e.g. French might count in Quebec and English in the rest of Canada). No one holds like this, but we can still learn from it that you need to speak in an actual language. Mathematical formulae are a way to describe things, but should not count as a “spoken language”. Similarly, one should not be Yotzei if he counted in Esperanto or a similar made-up language that no one actually speaks. Something like that, and certainly binary, should not have the Halachic status of a language.
Sam2ParticipantGabboim, I’m sure that many Jews give bracelets. However, many also give rings and the giving of a ring prior to the Chuppah is recognized as something other than for the sake of Kiddushin. Similarly, while those you know might give the ring at the Vort, many also give it when they get engaged.
What intrigues me about this is that the original source for the non-Jewish custom to give an engagement ring probably is Kiddushin, since the source for the Western custom is dated back to Roman custom. That shouldn’t matter now though as everyone knows that when one gives a ring at the time of the engagement it is not for the sake of Kiddushin but rather as a romantic gesture/sign of commitment.
Sam2ParticipantWine touched by a non-frum Jew does not become Stam Yeinam. It is a Chumra proposed by a few Acharonim that never made mainstream Halacha at all. The smae Chumra says that a Ba’al Teshivah cannot Duchan if he was Mechalel Shabbos Befarhesya. If someone has the luxury to completely avoid ever interacting with a non-frum Jew the great. Otherwise it is a Chumra which was never accepted and would cause tremendous problems in Klal Yisroel if people tried to implement it.
Sam2ParticipantSorry Wolf. I started writing my post before yours came up. I wasn’t trying to steal your idea or anything.
Sam2ParticipantYou guys are leaving out a second half of the discussion. Devorim Sheb’leiv Uv’leiv Kol Adam do count. Since everyone knows that it is customary nowadays to give a ring to a girl upon reaching an agreement to get married at a later date and that no one ever has in mind to accomplish Kiddushin by that giving of the ring, there should not be Kiddushin in such a case, even if two Kosher Eidim were present.
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