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There’s a thread on this already if someone can find it.
It’s 100 with the Nosei Keilim there.
Health: YU has no GSA. How and why Touro’s came to be doesn’t change the fact that it exists. Isn’t that what you guys were saying about the YU event or the Beacon? What they were meant to be or what people think of them doesn’t matter as long as their effect is how people will think of Orthodox Jews. Why should Touro having a GSA be any different? (I’m not criticizing Touro or anything here; I’m just pointing out an apparent double standard).
PBA: It’s the Siman I quoted earlier. I think it’s 89 but I could be off.
Giggle girl: I don’t know of any Rishon or Acharon who says that. Then again, I don’t claim to know all of the opinions about Bechirah.
PBA: You hold like Rav Schachter?
Health: Once it became clear that people actually cared about what the Beacon said (which only started with this article, they’ve had worse stuff before; no one cared at all), YU felt the need to show that they didn’t have anything to do with them.
Jothar: It’s clear that the Beacon wants to be representing a large portion of YU students, not that they actually are or even honestly think they are.
Jothar: I guarantee you that over 90% of the YU student body thinks that Mishkav Zachor should never be practiced. And that’s because almost 10% aren’t frum anyway.
Yeah, but you knew that if you messed it up or forgot it you were still Yotzei Shmoneh Esrei. I was less brave but more stupid. I went over it to myself (OC Siman 89, by the way, IIRC), made a mistake, still recognized that I knew it, and said it without a Siddur nearby anyway.
Gotta be Bananagrams.
Passfan: I do not know anything about Mr. Fertig so I can’t say anything. I can say that any institution of higher learning, in such a case, would quote Voltaire: “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”.
Health: You’re missing my point. No one viewed it as any sort of Bizayon because no one cared. It was the same as any other random blogger or nutcase saying silly things. No one gave the Beacon any relevance, therefore no one viewed anything they said as having any effect (positive or negative) on anyone.
Water yes, other stuff no. Unless you assume that we don’t hold by that nowadays (for any of the several reasons given in the Achronim) and eat anything before lighting candles.
Passfan: You are making an assumption and I think that it’s wrong. I think that the YU administration, as a university in this country, would say the exact same about any freedom of speech issue.
Hello: I feel like many Achronim disagree with that Pri Megadim. And even so, that is by an Issur (D’Oraisa no less). Here the Issur is an issue of Sakanah. If you’ve removed the Sakanah, are you sure that even the Pri Megadim would say it’s not okay.
Passfan: YU did oppose it. They very strongly said that they were embarrassed by it, disagreed with it, and disassociated themselves from the Beacon completely. So what more do you want?
Health: I’m saying that no one cared. No one cared at all about the Beacon. It was just a place where people wrote random things and everyone ignored it. It was completely irrelevant until it all blew up.
Passfan: As a university, the school can in no way infringe upon the students’ free speech. The students themselves and the organization both protested loudly against the article representing YU at all. What more do you want?
Passfan: Right, because YU cannot stop students from expressing their freedom of speech. That doesn’t mean they condone anything.
Just to clear things up. The Beacon has nothing to do with YU. Nothing! It was never an official publication. All of last year it was just people writing whatever they wanted. This year, since a fair number of students were involved, they successfully petitioned Stern’s student council to receive money as a student club. This means that they got t-shirts and money for pizza once a month or so. It still wasn’t an official YU publication. And everyone knew all along that this wouldn’t last, and that at some point their mission statement of being “censorship free” and not necessarily caring about Halacha would wind up with something happening that would end their status as a club. No one just thought it would blow up this badly.
Passfan: She wanted a “Jewish experience”. She was very into cultural Judaism.
Health: No. The Beacon is not a publication of YU. It’s not. It’s a publication by some YU students. Many of the writers never even attended YU (some of the editors may not have either). YU couldn’t stop the girl from making her own website. I guess they could have fought over having the word “YU” in the name but no one really cared and the Beacon was (and still mostly is) considered a joke by most people around YU and is viewed as just a way for a few journalism majors to boost their resumes. No one cared about it and it wasn’t a big deal until this piece went viral. People complained a lot about at least one article every week in the Beacon, even articles about inappropriate sexual things. This one just got a lot of press for some reason.
HaKatan: I disagree. I don’t think there is any attitude of modernity trumping Halacha at all. Ad’rabba, when you want to do more borderline things, you have to be much more cognizant of the intricate details of Halacha so you can know what is Muttar and what is not. You’re assuming these people want to do things then search for Heterim. In my experience, it’s the opposite. They know and research what is Muttar and how, and then they know what they can do.
I don’t want to get into an argument about every Commentator and Kol Hamevaser article, but once again it’s fallacious to assume that it represents anywhere near the ideas of the whole student body. As a general rule (but it’s not true about everyone), the more intellectual/academic students are the one who write and the “Frummer”/people who learn more stay quiet to themselves. One of the best passtimes of parts of the Frum crowd is to read through those on Friday nights and laugh at the humor, mistakes, idiocy, and borderline Apikorsus contained therein.
And stop bringing up the Beacon. We get it. The editor’s not Frum. Why does constantly reiterating that make it any more indicative of the Frum people there? One of the founders (the one who originally thought of it and has since moved on) was completely anti-religious. The Beacon says nothing, nothing about YU as a whole.
Health: I honestly think you’re not intending on being hurtful here. But you are to some people. Maybe just step back for a minute, maybe have a friend read your posts or something, and see what he thinks of them and maybe you can see why some people are getting upset at you here. No one is trying to make this personal. They’re really not. I think many people just feel that your responses are too sharp and harsh sometimes.
Jothar: The way it was presented in the press was before the event. You can hardly blame YU for how that happened. It was an event that Rabbi Blau (and others) felt was very important because Lema’aseh these are Jews that want to be Frum that are pushed out of any Frum society because of something out of their control. Can you honestly defend the Rav who told a 10-year-old that he had tried every Ta’ava in the world before settling on Mishkav Zachor or the Rav who called the 14-year-old (who still had not done anything Assur) “evil”? Can you defend them? And can you honestly fault that person and Rabbi Blau for wanting to make sure that things like that don’t happen again?
GAW: I had someone ask Rav Schachter for me today. He said it’s not a Neder because that’s how the Mitzvah D’rabannan was framed. So I guess I’m outgunned on this.
Google curious Jew and being gay in the Orthodox world. It’s on the curiousjew blog on blogspot. I have found that it’s one of the best transcriptions and I don’t think there was anything else on the page that would be offensive to this site. I did not read all of the comments so I can’t vouch for them.
Maybe just provide directions of how to google it
Stop asking questions and making claims against the event. Read the transcription or watch the video. And no one really realized. It was one line that seemed to imply he is actively violating this and he snuck it in there well. Most people didn’t realize it, I think.
So mods, can someone answer. Will I get away with posting the link to the transcription?
Hello: That’s okay. I’ve been told I speak disrespectfully in learning my whole life. I think I’ve only actually crossed a proper line of respect once.
Jothar: What the blogosphere and press decide to do is not Rabbi Blau’s fault. Anyone who was at the event or read a transcript/watched the video of it cannot call it a Chillul Hashem. No one knew that one guy was practicing until he mentioned a reference to it in his speech. No one cheered that. If the mods will let me (which I highly doubt), I will link the transcription of the event and you can decide for yourself if the press represented it properly.
Hello: Yes, but we see cases where we say it’s Muttar to be Mevatel Issur Lechatchila. So maybe there are times when we can make this case similar to those. Also, with the sauce, it should be possible to water it down/mix it with other sauces so that the fish really is Batel before you ever put it in meat. That should be completely Muttar.
Hello: By “strange” I meant Halachos in the Shulchan Aruch and later Poskim that are accepted yet don’t quite seem to follow from the Gemara and/or Rishonim. I didn’t mean strange is in illogical. And the Gemara says “Af Hein Hayu Be’oso Hanes”. What better source do you need for women to light?
Can someone give an actual Halachic and non-emotional reason for being opposed to this? Until you can, why are you criticizing this?
GAW: I don’t have one but it’s very Mistaber. It’s no less than a Minhag Tovah that you’ve done 3 times in a row or Devarim Hamutarim Sheacheirim Nahagu Bahem Issur.
If Goyim like what Jews do is that a problem? What makes Jewish music special is that it’s appropriate and follows Halacha. Being on Youtube or TV won’t change that. It’s the best Pirsumei Nisa possible and it’s a Kiddush Hashem that is viewable to the whole world. How can you complain about that?
GAW: Being Yotzei Mehadrin Min Hamehadrin could very well have the status of a Neder for most of K’lal Yisrael and you may need to be Mattir Neder if you want to be Yotzei just the basic Mitzvah.
HaKatan: I don’t even know where to begin with this. You are taking an article by one Overes Aveirah as an indictment on a whole community. I would hope that someone who knows what Jews have gone through throughout our history would be able to see past that.
Rav Schachter talks about when the cardinals visit and why and why YU lets them in the Beis Midrash. Before they come, someone always announces in the Beis Medrash that they should be ignored and that learning should continue as normal.
I cannot answer why Broadway shows are Muttar. I know people have been given Heterim (I also know of several people who bring iPods to listen on during Kol Isha parts), but I do not know why they would be Muttar.
You seem to have a very strong complaint against a group of people and are not giving a real support for your indictment of a large group of Frum Jews, unless you think that Broadway shows are enough to Passul an entire group.
Health: I understand you’re defensive. But maybe tone it down a bit. Not every post (even those critical of people) is a personal attack. You seem to take them as such and it leads to a lot of arguments here. Maybe just be willing to accept that others will have different opinions that may seem critical of you or those you are close to. It’s never meant to be personal here.
Old man: Have you seen the Chabad picture of the guy dressed up like Santa Claus wearing Tefillin?
Nechomah: No, the point is that President Joel is not someone to turn to with Halachic Shailos (minor or major), acknowledges that fact, and would therefore decline answering (unless he was the most learned available and there was literally no way to ask anyone else) any Halachic Shaila and would cede to the opinion of Rav Schachter or Rav Willig (I do not know who his personal Posek is but if I recall correctly it’s one of the two). It wouldn’t be a political answer. I have seen many times where he has ceded a Shaila to a Rabbi around him. He is learned but does not feel learned enough to give an opinion on anything. It would like asking me or any other random guy a Shaila. I might have an opinion, but that in no way means that it’s worth anything. So why would I give it?
I don’t think people actually believe it so it’s okay. Tim Tebow jokes, however, may be bordering on something.
Hello: I’m not saying that it isn’t okay (there are plenty of strange things we do well within the framework of the Shulchan Aruch, the way we make Eruvim being a big one), I’m just saying that since it’s against the Gemara with no real hint in the Gemara, it’s enough that we stick just with Ishto K’gufo and not somehow apply that to daughters as well. And the only ones I know of who don’t have girls light is Chabad. Who else doesn’t?
First Time Caller: That’s not true. It’s not Stam Yeinam for themselves.
Health: It’s not possible that I just don’t like mass Lashon Hara and Motzi Shem Ra about Frum Jews? I have to be personally involved to defend something?
If it was Assur I would have said it was Assur. This Gemara shows that it’s a good idea not to regardless.
Health: I guarantee that if you would ask Richard Joel what he thinks of Conservative conversions he would say that he is neither a Posek nor Rosh Yeshivah and would leave that decision up to R’ Schachter.
Health: Actually look it up. I think the opposite is Mevuar. As long as you make it look like you’re reading Pessukim it’s okay, even if your main Kavanah is to Daven.
Jothar: More Motzi Shem Ra on Rabbi Blau. He knew exactly what he was doing. He wanted people who are attracted to men to have the option of living in a Frum community (as long as they are following Halacha, obviously), something which is very hard for them now. The event in no way whatsoever supported Mishkav Zachor. It didn’t. The lies being spread around as to what happened at that event are disgusting and blatant Motzi Shem Ra. You’d be shocked as to what I heard happened at that event from some anti-YU people (I know exactly what happened at the event, every single detail).
The Beacon leigitmizes nothing. It in now way represents any Shmiras Halacha or the opinions of even close to a majority of YU students.
Passfan: A married couple are counted as one person for being yotzei Mehadrin Min Hamehadrin by lighting Channukah candles. That is strange enough in its own right. There is no reason whatsoever why a daughter who is a Bas Chiyuv should not light for herself. None. She has her own Mitzvah and if the family wants to actually do Mehadrin Min Hamehadrin then she has to light her own (or her father lights a whole extra Chanukiyah for her if you want to use the way some Rishonim bring down the Minhag).
The Mitzvah is equally as incumbent upon women as on men.
Bava Basra 4a (3a?).
Health: I will ask someone. There is absolutely no way on Earth that Rabbi Lamm has ever said that Conservative or Reform conversions are acceptable. I will look into that.