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MDD: You haven’t proven that there is ever room for protests. There are two Halachic concepts that matter here, one called Kanaim Pog’im Bo and one called Matzilin Oso B’nafsho. You have to prove that being physical to protest Aveiros is ever permitted otherwise.
Sam4: I love it when people quote the first half of that sentence without quoting the second. It’s the epitome of taking a quote out of context.
Mik5: I am not familiar with any source that says that. Also, it makes very little sense. Certainly, it’s not something to worry about unless you are concerned with obscure Kabbalistic Chumros (assuming a source actually exists).
HaKatan: Just so we’re being clear, you believe that all “MO” are Apikorsim as they let an ideological bias override Halachah. That’s good to know.
MDD: Stop comparing this to Pinchas. There are 3 cases of Kanaim Pog’im Bo. This isn’t one of them.
10952: No one might be able to say for sure that they are making a mistake. Only someone on their level can claim that. But everyone has to be open to the possibility that they don’t fully understand/aren’t completely informed of this situation.
Wolf: If the story I heard was correct, they wanted to add an “Earth Day” between a Saturday and a Sunday one day in the 70s and one of the main reasons they didn’t was that it would make Shabbos on Friday from then on.
Also, imagine how tough it was for Jews under the French Revolution during the few years that they actually tried to make the 10-day week stick.
I honestly hate it when people try and put down a story/make you feel better by pointing out worse things that have happened. All it does is make me feel guilty over being upset over my current situation. “How can you be sad about X when there are starving kids out there?” It doesn’t do anything. Cinderella had an experience that was embarrassing and possibly traumatic to her. We shouldn’t minimize that by pointing out that others have had it worse. Everyone has their own problems. Cinderella, I feel bad for what happened to you and honestly hope that nothing this upsetting (or worse, obviously) happens to you ever again.
Okay, it could be that I stand corrected. I will look into this further myself (I haven’t yet had an opportunity to ask anyone who has easy access to Rabbi Broyde).
Yitay: I was unaware of that Tosafos. I’ll look it up. The Beis Yosef in that Siman in OC doesn’t bring down any Rishonim though. It’s one of the more puzzling Simanim I’ve seen. (Hello, if you’re reading this, I used the word “puzzling” instead of “weird” just for you. 🙂
M42: Mayim Genuvim Yumas’ku? 🙂
MDD: Source please?
Yitay: I never understood why or how the Mechaber brought down those Halachos. The earlier Rishonim almost all omitted them for a reason-namely, that they’re against P’shat in the Gemara. I’ve had almost that entire Siman as a Tzarich Iyun for years. I have no real answer, especially as the Mechaber brings them down as Halacha and not Chumra/Middos Chassidus.
I respectfully disagree with MiddlePath. Those threads and discussions serve a purpose. I agree that some things in there should not have been allowed to have been said, but the discussions are necessary.
HaKatan: I am entirely rejecting your assumption that “MO” (the fact that this Rav is even “MO” is an assumption you are making based off a subtitle) bases their Halachos on anything other than Halachic sources. I am very strongly protesting your implications that “MO” is an ideology that in some (or any) cases overrides Halacha.
Oh, and the Rambam says that “Hakol Muttar”. And Pashtus in the Gemara in Nedarim is against the Chumros brought down in those Simanim in Orach Chayim.
DY: No, I think everyone agrees that physical assault (of any type) is never an appropriate response unless it’s a specific case of Matzilin Oso Benafsho or Kana’in Pog’in Bo.
MDD: I hope not. Everyone agrees that there are circumstances in which one must protest a Chillul Hashem. I think the disagreements are just about what scenarios should create such a reaction.
Thank you. That is very comforting for everyone. If only all of Klal Yisrael felt like you.
M95: I have no defense for or response to a post such as Itche’s. It is terrible and shows nothing but Sinas Chinam. I hope he realizes that and finds a way to move forward with more and proper Ahavas Yisrael. The only thing I can hope is that the “Chet” stands for Chamas and not Chareidi. I would just like you to think about one thing and ask why. If such a post had gone through with the name of the group beginning with the letter “M”, not “Chet”, would it have been posted through with such a M’cho’o? If the answer is no, why not?
Absolutely. Even if it said starts with an R, or a C.
I’ll amend my previous post. If it actually works, then for sure there’s no Issur. (If the only help is psychological then I am not sure if that counts as “working”.) The wristbands that I have investigated that use “natural frequencies” and other hooey for sure do nothing and are therefore Assur. It could be that actual effective wristbands exist. I doubt it, but it’s possible.
MDD: There are Muttar ways to be Kannai and Assur ways. That changes based on a lot of factors. In this situation, most people seem to agree that this was Assur. Pointing out one Issur (which involved a Chillul Hashem) is in no way glossing over a separate Issur (if one was committed in this case).
None of those wristbands do anything. They’re all ridiculous fake money-grabs and may be an Issur of Darchei Ha’emori.
Then the issue is with those who spread the rumors and allowed it to be spread, not with the doctors or the parents who figured it out. (In this case the doctors are at fault because they were wrong, but if they had been right then the fault does not lay with them.)
Yitay: I think it’s the opposite. I think you’re referring to a Mishnah in Eduyos (I think) that says that Beis Shammai’s (the minority) opinion is recorded so that you can know that that minority opinion has been rejected and you won’t have a later Beis Din follow it.
Sorry PBA, I think you’re wrong on this. We just call our previous cases “T’shuvos”. The Gemara is full of Paskening based on cases, and the Rishonim all Pasken from previous cases in the Gemara.
There is a Gemara that states that one should not sign his name on a blank sheet of paper because a con-man might find it and write anything he wants on top of it. Presumably that wouldn’t apply in the CR s others (excluding the mods) can’t edit your posts.
I apologize if anyone is offended by any of my comments. Sometimes I feel that it is necessary to defend a practice or a group of Jews. I try to post level-headedly, but it’s hard to convey level-headedness via the internet.
HaKatan: What you imply is pure Apikorsus and is Megaleh Ponim Batorah. No one should have an “ideological bias” when making Halachic decisions. That is the problem with today’s “Hashkofos”. People let it override Halachic considerations. Why can’t you even consider the possibility (which I would assume is true; otherwise people should not follow this Rav) that maybe he thinks that this isn’t a violation of Halacha? It has to be that if he thinks something is Muttar that you think is Assur that he has ideological differences which affect his understanding of Halacha? Come on. That is disgusting, not-Jewish, and destroys the validity of Torah, the Mesorah, and Halacha. Ideological considerations never should and never do influence Halacha, either Lehakel or Lehachmir. Saying either of those is complete Apikorsus.
Always here: Beis Din should know the story and if they write a Seruv that’s the end of it. He’s in the wrong.
Scissors: Just because it didn’t work for you doesn’t mean that’s true of everyone else. Everyone is different and some people find their inspiration different ways.
MDD: I’m not saying that Rabbi Broyde is right. He is a Bar Hachi to have an opinion though, and his followers have a right to follow his opinion. Also, the Aruch Hashulchan sounds like my statement of “have a Mesora not to cover their hair” isn’t so inaccurate.
HaKatan: Your opening statement is divisive, disgusting, and reeks of Sinas Chinam. Just because someone may or may not be “MO” (whatever that even means to you anyway), their potentially vast Halachic knowledge is inherently irrelevant. I am very strongly being Moche your blatant Sinas Chinam.
PBA: I will look into what Rabbi Broyde holds. I think I’m right as to what he holds but I will look into it more.
PBA: I have heard from his mouth several times. It may have been a Limud Zechus, but he holds that it’s enough for people to actually be Somech on.
Yitay: I am completely unfamiliar with Lakewood. This happened in Eretz Yisrael both times.
MDD: Rabbi Broyde isn’t pulling Shittos out of his hat. Regardless that many of the more left-wing “MO”s use a lot of Kulos, it’s a bit unfair to characterize “the Minhag by the MO” as being relying on random, not-accepted Shittos.
Health: Rabbi Michael Broyde of the Beis Din of America.
Writer: I thought you were referring to Cyrano de Bergourac
Michal was forced to marry Palti and his name was changed to Paltiel because he never lived with her.
R.T.: The learning amuses me, actually. I used to learn in a Beis Midrash twice a week and was usually the only who wore colored shirts (I discussed it with the Rosh Yeshivah before and we worked out a plan I had). The people in the Beis Medrash were always shocked when I was able to discuss things and answer questions (at all, let alone just as well or better than many people there). People were still embarrassed to ask me things so they would come over and pretend to ask the guy sitting next to me, knowing that I would overhear and answer.
Health: The “Moderne” don’t have to meet the Chassidish/Chareidish version of Tznius. As long as they follow what is a valid P’sak given by their Rabbanim (and while not accepted generally, there are opinions that are more Meikel by hair-covering), then no one can be Mocheh against them-and they certainly can’t insult, embarrass, or physically harm them.
Scissors: Is there anything Assur about going to the concert (I think there is, but that’s a separate issue)? If someone have a valid P’sak to go, then why shouldn’t they make a Minyan?
Health: One more than 1 occasion I have been not counted for a Minyan, (presumably) due to me wearing a colored shirt. I would hope that everyone thinks like you claim-that they only care if you follow Halachah. However, my experience (and I think many others’ also) is that far too many care about other things than that.
Dina D’Malchusa.
I have heard that the reason Borsalinos are so expensive is because part of their proceeds go to missionary work. Can anyone deny or confirm this?
Health: No one is claiming “the Chareidim” are starting up. People are (accurately) stating that a group of idiots who pretend to be Chareidim are starting up.
Also, can you cite your CC please? I want to look at it. If you’re quoting it properly, it seems to be the exact opposite of something in the beginning of the Simla Chadasha. Also, I feel like you’re overextending where to apply “Amisecha”, but that is a discussion for a different time.
There is a sign up in one of the Chassidish main shuls in Me’ah She’arim (I believe Vishnitz but I’m not positive) asking that the women leave before Kedushas Keser on Shabbos so that they don’t mix with the men when leaving.
Wow. Just wow. Mods, why are you letting pure, purposeless bashing of Frum people through here? Do any of you think that the Maccabeats don’t ask Shailos (I think to Rav Willig) before they do controversial things?
Health: Yes, well that “whatever reason” can make a tremendous difference, can’t it? Or do you think that every “MO”, as you put it, is a Mumar Lehachis on the Issur Asei of Tznius? Oh, and before you call my understanding of Halacha ridiculous you might want to bring up a source to back up your assertion. Until you can prove that these women violate Tznius (I will admit that I am unsure about this, does being a Mumar to be Mevatel an Asei Lechachis even make you a Mumar L’chol Hatorah Kulah?) and that they do it Lehachis, you have no claim here.
Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, because they keep Shabbos and Kashrus properly they also have a reason to consider what they are doing keeping Tznius properly?