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UJM: You know the answer to your own question. There is no need to create sensitivity training or any statement about students struggling with adultery because its not a public issue. This whole statement and the entire lawsuit are about a sensitive public issue.
Think about it this way. What would BMG say if they were sued for the same issue? Would they say, “We hate gay people”? “If a gay person walks onto our campus, we have no problem if they get beat up”? I think they would say something very similar to what Rabbi Dr. Berman is saying, although they would change the tone.UJM: It is possible to love someone who is struggling with his yezter hora. What would you do if it was your child?
Obviously, this paragraph was only written for PR purposes to demonstrate that they are not religious fanatics from the dark ages. But the reality is still there that just because someone claims that he/she is gay is not a reason to treat them like a murderer. The problem is only when someone says he is proud of acting against the Torah and wants to push that agenda on others.That is exactly what YU is fighting against.
Rabbi Dr. Ari Berman, the President of YU, just sent out a very informative email of FAQ’s on this case. I think it is worthwhile for all contributors to this post to read it.
My Dear Friends,
Many of you know that Yeshiva University is defending its right in the Supreme Court to make its own religious decisions. Due to the significance of the matter, I share with you below a number of the answers we have posted to the questions we have received these past few days. For further updates, please visit yu.edu/case-faqs.
Rabbi Dr. Ari Berman
President, Yeshiva University
FAQs
Why is this case in the US court system?
Yeshiva University was brought to court based on the claim that it is not religious enough to be allowed to make its own decision on religious matters. The court case is solely about YU’s freedom to act according to its values without government interference.
What are the consequences if Yeshiva University loses these court rulings?
Yeshiva University will no longer be able to govern itself according to its principles of faith as it will be subject to any claims of discrimination. If, for example, a student wished to form a Jews for Jesus club, Yeshiva would be required to allow it. Sabbath observance on campus, the hiring of Orthodox rabbis and educators and maintaining our separate gender campuses would all be open to potential lawsuits.
How did this situation arise?
Yeshiva University has a long-standing policy to officially approve student clubs that are consistent with its Torah values. For this reason, it has not granted official club status to many other club applications in the past, including a gun club and a Jewish fraternity, as the names and activities associated with these clubs were deemed not fully consistent with the values of YU. A similar conclusion was reached on the application of the YU Pride Alliance.
Does Yeshiva University welcome LGBTQ students in its undergraduate schools?
Absolutely.
We welcome, love and care for all our students, including our LGBTQ students. We place a specific emphasis of importance on supporting our LGBTQ students. There are a number of ways we express this support, including hosting an LGBTQ support group, requiring LGBTQ sensitivity training to all of our rabbis and faculty and presenting public events so that all of our students better understand the experience of being LGBTQ and Orthodox. And, of course, we uphold our strong anti-bullying and anti-discrimination policies. We understand that a number of our LGBTQ students think YU should be doing more for them including establishing a student club. We had been engaged in a constructive dialogue with our students to work on building an even more inclusive campus experience.
However, when we were sued with the claim that we do not have the right to make our own decisions, the matter changed entirely from an LGBTQ discussion to defending the future of our institution.
Do the same expectations that apply to the undergraduate schools, apply to YU’s professional and academic graduate schools?
No.
The way Yeshiva University applies its Torah values to the graduate schools is very different than its undergraduate schools.
We are very clear about the type of environment that exists on our undergraduate campus, and every undergaduate student who makes the personal choice to come here is choosing this environment instead of other college experiences. The undergraduate experience at Yeshiva is intentionally designed to be an intensely religious one during the formative years of our students’ lives. Its fundamental purpose is to faithfully transmit our multimillennial tradition to enable our students to integrate their faith and practice in lives of enormous professional success, impact and personal meaning. The daily schedule of our undergraduate students requires hours of Torah study. The campus experience fosters a deeply religious experience including two single sex campuses, multiple prayer services throughout the day, Shabbat regulations, kashrut observance and extra Torah study opportunities in the evenings.
As students move from their formative years to our professional graduate schools, there is a shift in focus towards professional training and academic research. These schools, comprised of Jews and non-Jews, excel in their scholarship and education of excellent professionals in their respective fields. These schools also embody our core values to “Seek Truth, Discover Your Potential, Live Your Values, Act with Compassion and Bring Redemption,” in their respective learning communities. They also follow a Jewish calendar and maintain kosher standards to facilitate an accessible experience to our Orthodox Jewish students. But the focus is wholly different and so are the assumptions of student life.
Is Yeshiva University accepting of LGBTQ staff and personnel as well?
Absolutely.
As a religious institution of higher education, can Yeshiva University accept government funds?
Yes, it can. In fact, almost all religious universities and colleges receive state and federal funding. The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly—as recently as this June—that, when the government makes funding generally available, it cannot discriminate in the distribution of those funds based on religion. For example, it can’t offer Pell grants to students generally but then deny them to students who want to go to a religious school. That would be religious discrimination. We do not lose our religious status just because we participate in public life on equal footing with everyone else.
Why is the university defending this right and appealing all the way to the Supreme Court?
Once we were brought to court, this no longer was about an LGBTQ club, but our ability to make decisions for ourselves about our religious environment.
The plaintiffs have argued that YU is not a religious institution and, thus not empowered to decide matters pertaining to religion. In its ruling, the lower court pieced together an argument that creates a threatening precedent. The implications of this decision are deleterious to the very fabric of our educational system and we need to defend ourselves to protect our future.
What is at stake with this case?
Historically, the Jewish people have had deeply negative experiences with government interference in religious matters. When a court can decide that Yeshiva University is not religious enough to administer its own religious environment, then it’s not just our institution’s future that is being threatened. In truth, this is not just a Jewish issue. Leaders of other faiths and leading legal scholars are similarly deeply concerned with this ruling. They understand that the consequences of this legal decision have severe implications for faith in America.
Hopefully we will be able to restore a just sense of religious liberty and return to a constructive dialogue with our students to work together to build an even more inclusive, loving campus environment that is a blessing to all of our students and a model of discourse and harmony to our society.
I don’t know if this latest accident is related to misuse of lights and sirens but I was shocked when I saw the son of a different Rebbe came from EY and his entourage illegally used lights and sirens as if it was a great kavod. I don’t understand how the son of this Rebbe allowed the drivers to do this without protest. It is more than childish, it is dangerous. What happens if hatzala loses their right to use sirens because some meshunega thought he was showing honor to his Rebbe? What if police start pulling over emergency vehicles to check if there really is an emergency?
maybe she can sue the pants off them (or threaten to make a big deal about it) and she will not need to work!
BTW Influence is also determined by the number of followers (whether they were talmidim in yeshiva or not) they have and how strongly they follow the guidance of their leader.
Some of the names listed by other posters may be big talmidei chachachmim and given nice shiurim but few followers after they leave the shiur.
In some yeshivos a maggid shiur may have more influence on the present and past talmidim than the Rosh Yeshiva
“The greatest” is a tough term to define.
Level of yiras shomayim (a mentsch) is something only G-d can determine. We can all tell stories about various people but some gedolim are so good at hiding their tzidkus we don’t even know stories about them.
Level of shiur is also a toughie as
A. there are very few people who go to every shiur to really compare
B. does anyone know how to rate a level of a shiur? If one person quotes 10 rishonim and achronim an hour and another quotes 15, does that make it a higher level shiur?I think a better gauge should be the influence they have on the American Orthodox community.
I would certainly add R. Aharon Lopiansky shlita and R. Hershel Schachter shlita to the top of the list.
Avira: Is it really true that “a large amount – perhaps the majority – of gedolei roshei yeshiva in America… are talmidim of Brisk? Even if they learned there for a year or two but spent the overwhelming majority of their development in American Yeshivos can we still call them Brisk products?
Also, keep in mind the question of cause and effect. Even if it is true as you say it does not give us a definitive answer that they are the gedolei RY BEACUSE they learned in Brisk. It is always very possible that Brisk attracted the best minds but not that they achieved greatness due to their time in Brisk
I was quite surprised to see anyone (especially an avid internet user) that would make fun of GYE. Anyone who does not recognize the nature and dangers of internet shmutz or mocks those who struggle with it, is living under a rock. Rabbanim who say “what’s the big deal, just don’t have internet,” or even those who think filters are the answer for everything are just as blind.
There is no one out there doing what GYE does. They are saving neshomos daily.
If anyone thought that the OP was serious, I think his line about the environment clinched his trollness.
Many organizations such as Yeshivos classify themselves as “synagogues” specifically for the purpose of getting out of filing public 990s. If donor would show their disapproval and insist on transparency that would shift the tide.
You may be very surprised to see the salaries of the staff of some non-profits. Several heimishe mosdos have execs making $400k or more in DECLARED income. This does not include other non-declared income and benefits such as parsonage, trips to Israel etc.
It is a shame that so many people give tzedakah with just their heart and not the mind as well.
The editor of the “gedolilm pages” of the yated and Hamodia determine who are the gedolim today
It’s not realistic to ask mosdos to not honor rich folks with an unhealthy attitude towards $ and it’s also not realistic to ask Jewish publications to not run ads that promote opulent lifestyles. Jewish magazines are in the business to make money. The only way is through education. If people get up publicly and speak about how it’s not cool to flaunt maybe eventually it will sink in. Naftali Horowitz does a good job with this. It would also be nice if Rabbanim would speak privately to people when they start to make plans for simchas to explain what is expected in their community.
Let’s say it is run by reform Jews. If they are transcribing the texts accurately why should it make a difference?
Sounds like two good things could result
A) Give a big zechus to people who may not have many
B) Encourage more non-Orthodox Jews to study the texts on the websiteThe better question is why does YWN allow such obvious trolls?
I believe that I saw an article in the Harvard Journal of Medicine that discussed whenever someone has a question seeking medical expertise the wisest place to turn is the YWN coffee room. Since we all know that most Doctors are Jews it is most likely that the most competent medical experts will be able to provide their unbiased professional advice in this forum.
I don’t understand the whole question. Since there are so many fundraisers there must be one that is run by someone you trust. Are you really planning to donate to 20 different funds? If you have the money and the heart to donate just pick one or two funds and give it there.
Don’t take it upon yourself to vet every fundraiser out there.
Who says that you need to fly? Just walk state to state or into the country and your rights are protected.
If an airline wants to say all passengers must wear green hats can they not do that?
Yabia: You are the sfardi voice of the YW coffee room and obviously know about the greatness of the Baba Sali zt’l. Why would you post this? Are you trying to lure someone into saying something negative about one of the gedolei hador of the previous generation?
Looking at some of the other posts of the OP it seems like her husband is actually a long-term kollel fellow (8+ years?). That changes a lot
1. I think it is rare for parents to give support to children for the long term. It may be true that short term (1-4 years) many but not all kollel families receive parental support but long term is rare.
2. While indicated that it seems to me most couples should be able to make it in kollel without the need for parental support all the rules change once you start talking about long term kollel. Once you get into issues of multiple tuitions and a growing family it is a whole different ballpark
3. Yes you will find people even in the chareidi community who will be skeptical about long-term kollel families. Many of the families in these situations are there by accident not because it is part of a life plan. We don’t know the situation of the OP but don’t be surprised if people assume that you are part of that majority that just fell into it.
Amom kudos to you for living the kollel life for the right reasons and may Hashem support you and your husband.
I think an important question is if parental support is really necessary in today’s day and age. It seems to me that there are many jobs available for kollel wives that bring in a very respectable salary and kollelim themselves provide a much higher stipend than in the past.Let’s say the wife can earn $35-40 k and the husband can bring in another $12 K from a kollel check. Add in some nice donations from the government in the form of child tax credits, medical insurance, wic etc. how much more does a couple need to get by? Granted if they want to live the high life with late-model SUVs and high-end baby strollers and clothing it will cost more. But can’t a kollel couple get by very comfortably today if they live a modest lifestyle?
What am I missing?
Gadol Hadorah: There are very few cities in the US where rent for a 2 or 3 bedroom apt is more than $4,000 per month. In those rare cases, the schools pay much more than $4,000 per month.
Romain: The issue is more than asking for a liveable salary. The issue is that people are not choosing teaching as a profession. The hope is that if salaries are increased that will change things.
Comparing teachers’ salaries from one country to another is just silly without comparing all cost of living expenses in total.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting teachers should make $168k per year. When you throw out a number like that it means your post is not serious
There is a teacher shortage in the public schools too. It could be attributed to a lot of factors but the bottom line is that the issue of supply and demand is simply not raising the salaries for either Moros or Rabbeim. The schools feel like they can’t win. The parents scream bloody murder if tuitions go up and there is only so much cash in the pot. So the schools try to pay as little as they can get away with but the Rabbeim and Moros say that I still need a liveable salary. They don’t care if you tell them how much they get paid per hour. They need to pay their bills.
Soooo… the boys work selling on Amazon and the girls go into medical billing.
It used to be that there was something called idealism and people were willing to suffer with a lower wage because they lived for an ideal.
I dealsim is pretty much dead but hey, that should be a topic for a whole new thread.
edited
It sounds logical but guess what: it’s not working. Ask any school administrator anywhere in the country if there is a shortage from both Male and Female teachers.
Secondly your suggestion of hiring cheap labor means that you will get what you pay for. Perhaps in a factory in China it pays to hires unskilled labor to install widgets but if you wanted dedicated professionals to teach your kids and grandkids it will cost.
This leaves only two sources for the money, philanthropists, higher tuitions or both.