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Let’s take a step back and think about how this started. TU ran a fundraising campaign (translated as asking money from it’s stakeholders) and part of that campaign they proudly shared their expenses and also a video that was meant to clearly define what they do and why they need to exist. You could contribute without asking questions, not contribute and say I will give my money elsewhere, or ask legitimate questions AS RESPONSES to what TU proudly said about themselves.
We have discussed the discrepancy between the budget TU produced during the fundraising campaign and the 990s and I don’t see anyone offering a possible explanation. We have discussed clarity on the vague self-definition video that TU proudly sent out (more than once) and I have not seen anyone offer a translation. Let’s move on to the next question- the day schools
Rav Shraga Feivel Mendelowitz zt’l founded TU with a mission: to establish a day school in every community across the country with a population of over 5,000 Jews. While he was incredibly successful, I think it is accurate to say that this goal has been achieved by 85-90% ( a bit less if you count non-Orthodox schools as day schools). I think it is safe to say that his goal was not just to get a building up in these communities but also to maintain the schools with students, teachers, principals, curriculum, direction support, etc.
In the video that TU put out a few weeks ago , they essentially said that they have given up on the day schools. They have “shifted focus”. That sounds like they are only focused on the Yeshivishe schools. That essentially means they are no longer serving the Modern Orthodox schools (188 schools, 50,000 students), community schools 91 schools, 20,000 students), Chabad 78 schools 15,000 students)and Immigrant/Outreach schools 17 schools 2,300 students). I understand that TU never represented the reform and conservative schools but they are only about 40 schools with 10 k students and getting less each year. As long as everybody is OK with that shift, there is nothing to talk about. Just realize that although R Shraga Feievel was busy also helping establish and yeshivos and chadarim in NY, he placed a large focus on the day schools. He did not say “we need to focus on the chareidi population.”. He saw the spiritual holocaust that was happening in his time, and he addressed it with all his might. That spiritual holocaust is still going on. If R. Shraga Feivel was alive today would he say “the heck with the day schools, times are different”?
one last point to nisht-just because many yeshivos do not file a 990 because they claim they are a church/synagogue does not justify every Jewish organization the same loophole. No, they do not need to open their books to everyone, but they do so voluntarily. And to think “well some really smart business people are on the board so they must know what they are doing” is not a very logical argument. I could easily say that they are too busy with their own business and perhaps no one asked them any legitimate questions about the organization they support.
My information abouthe schools is from the census put out by Avi Chai in Aug 2020 and the classification of what type of school tye are is based on the schools own answers to the census. Almost all schools including Chassishe chadorim responded to the census. The video TU put out is called “Our Story, Unscripted” and can be found on the TU website and on Vimeo
Nisht-The way you are a point is to say, “I read the 990, and what you said they report as _____ is actually_______. When TU released their budget as _____ they actually said _______.
When they said they are a platform like Microsoft Excell, they meant ________
When they said they are the guardrails to keep schools in check, they meant ________
When they said they are the gas that is keeping the chinuch world going, they meant ________
Keep in mind that we are basing our questions on the messaging and the numbers that Torah Umesorah THEMSELVES are advertising! They say please give us money because we are ______ and our financials are ________. It is fair to question what that means and why your numbers do not match those reported to the IRS.
It is also fair to point out a blatant lie to say that 75% of all Rabbeim across the country were trained in Aish Dos. It’s a LIE! Why are they raising money based on sheker? If you want to say 75% of Rabbeim in Lakewood are trained in Aish Dos, we could examine the truth to that, but that is not what the head of TU said in their own promotional video!
If you respond with insults and just say “well I’m smarter than you, nah nah kish kish” that does not say much about you. Argue about substance not personal attacks
I understand that conferences are not free, so TU sent out an email on Dec. 23, detailing their expenses. That is where I got my figures from. It does not say if that is gross or net expenses after revenue.
Does anyone else find it strange that they would advertise total expenses of $11.8 million but their 990 says total expenses of $71M? That is not a small discrepancy. Also $17Mon foreign grants?
Another question: According to the Dec. 23 email that TU sent out it says they spent $3.5 M on conventions. There is another day school organization called Prizmah, which runs the largest conference for Jewish day schools (about 1100 people). It says the total expenses for conventions are $967k according to their audited financial statements. How does TU spend close to 4 times that amount in a cheaper venue with less people?
There are a lot of unanswered questions. Perhaps someone with some inside knowledge from TU can weigh in.
If anyone is interested in calling or emailing TU, here are some possible questions
1) When and why did TU officially give up on day schools? (as indicated in your self-defining video)
2) Is there another organization that has taken over your mandate to support Jewish day schools?
3) According to the last census on Jewish schools ( last updated 2019, release by Avi Chai) there are 906 schools. How many of these schools are serviced by TU.? Keep in mind that only 312 of these schools self-defined as Yeshivishe. (172 Chasidishe, 91 community, 138 as MO, 78 chabad etc.). According to your self-definition video it seems that you only service the Yeshivishe schools. Do you have numbers for which schools you service?
4) In December 2021, you ran a campaign to raise Morah and Rabbeim’s salaries. Has that fund been replenished to KEEP the salaries the same amount for this year ?
5) According to the latest budget that you publicized, it costs you $600,000 for a “Lakewood Shabbos+ retreat” “shabbos of chinuch” is $300k and a total of $3.5 million on conventions. Why so much? Why is it that other organizations can run larger, similar events for a fraction of the cost?
6) According to your video, it says you primarily exist as a platform like Microsoft Excel; you are guardrails for the schools and the gas that keep the school running well. What does all that that mean?
Crazy Kanoiy, that is not really a good way of fact checking. If the the figure is only referring to Yeshivishe schools in Lakewood that may be accurate. If you are a Chasidishe school in Wlliamsburg you will get a very different figure. A chabad school in New Orleans will give you something else.
The claim of TU was “all across the country”. My definition of “all across the country” includes schools outside of Lakewood
BTW, you don’t need to be a math genius if they also say there are 700 schools and 795 or 1,307 Aish Dos gardutes. That comes out to one or two Rabbeim per school (average)
Can anyone address the other statements from the video. What does all that mean? (Platform, guardrails, gas?) And why do they say they don’t care about day schools anymore? Have they just given up on them or have they handed the day schools over to another organization?
Haimy: Not sure if it indeed does fall under loshon hara. TU is a public mosad that just ran a big fundraising campaign. It is a valid question to ask “what do they do?” If people understand what they do and like it they will give more. If people disagree with their public statements as to what they do then the public should be aware of that perhaps they are making false statements to raise tzdaka money.
Take for example their claim that 75% of male Jewish educators in the US are Aish Dos (their training course) graduates. According to their website 596 graduates have taken positions as educators. According to another article in the Yated, 980 graduates are currently teaching. That means (depending on which number you take) there are a total of 795 or 1,307 total Rabbeim in the US. This includes Modern Orthodox schools, Chabad, community schools and chasidishe yeshivos, (and arguably Judiac teachers in less heimishe schools). That number seems a bit off. I would guess that Kiryas Yoel alone has over 100 Rabbeim and I doubt too many were trained in Aish Dos.
As far as their statement that they no longer are involved in day schools (i.e. they only service chareidi yeshivos), I think that is unfortunately a true statement.
I am a bit confused about the rest of their statements defining what they do (platform like Microsoft excel, guardrails, gas on the pedal, etc.)
Chaim 87 There are several problems with your suggestion
$1k per student would not solve the problem. It would be nice but it is not much of a help (ask middle income family paying $30k or more in tuition)
BMG is able to get a lot of money from pell grants, not all is fundraised. BMG also has a massive fundraising operation
If there are 400,000 children in schools and at least half would qualify, that still means raising $200 million every single year. If they had trouble raising $9 million for this last campaign how do you propose they do that
Most importantly, it does not help anyone to say “the OTHER guy should raise $100 miilion buck, no big whoop.” If you yourself said I will personaly raise $50 million, anyone out there to match me, now we are talking
My takeaways from the video is that today Torah Umesorah is
Not at all involved in day schools (i.e. they only service chareidi yeshivos)
It’s a platform for school to work on (like Microsoft excel)
75% of Rabbeim in all Jewish schools have been trained in Aish Dos
Providing curriculum to schools
A vaad Rosh Yeshivos that guides schools what they should be doing and what schools should not do
Guardrails to keep schools in check
The gas that is keeping the chinuch world going
Does anyone think that is correct, accurate and clear?
Anyone who wastes time trying to argue with somejewiknow is just wasting his time. This statement of his should be enough to prove to anyone that he is a crackpot beyond repair
“Anyone who hates arab terrorists more than IDF leaders is guilty of the heresy of zionism.”
Nuff said
The same reason why water has a hechsher. It does not need it but if someone feels it will sell more they pay for it.. What gets really meshuga is when these types of products have multiple hechsherim. Is there really anyone out there that says I don’t trust that guy for a a hechsher on my seltzer but him….
It all comes down to marketing
Realize that there is BIG money to be had from some of these productions. The longest standing video is done by the CCHF. Look at the number of donors and advertisers that they have. Do the math and you will see that they are raking it in with this video (which they still charge for). I don’t don’t know what the costs to produce it are but the profit margin on it must be HUGE!
Are you saying that Jews should not make a buck where they can.?
If someone has a valid point it is wrong to use ad hominin remarks to personally insult them. Your point about great people using a language says nothing about using bad grammar. Perhaps the great people you refer to actually spoke the language but used proper grammar when using Hebrew terms?
common saychel -I think you meant to write FFFFFF Fade awayyyyyyyyyy
AAQ- Do you really think that the printers lower the cost of the siddur because someone sponsored it? I would be shocked if that were true.
Consider the seforim put out by the Chofetz cChaim Heritage Foundation. They have sponsors on every page and multiple sponsors on top of that. The books cost as much as any other Artscroll sefer.
Consider the annual Tisha Bav video. They get a gazillion sponsors for everything you can imagine and still charge $20 admission fee.
Not sure what you mean. All the Litvaks are aware that it is the yartzheit of R’ Shnuer Kotler, the friediker Rosh Yeshiva of Lakewood.
Yes, I have always wondered about people who dedicate money to have the name of a loved one on a siddur. Pocket size? Another name, middle size with English instructions? Another name. The printing company is going to print it and make a profit; no matter what, all the donors are doing is giving the printer more money.
This is not like those who donate money to artscroll in order for them to research and produce seforim that otherwise would not be printed. For example, if Artscroll would charge the true cost of what it takes to produce one volume of a translated Yerushalmi, they would never sell a single copy. The donors in those cases are actually being marbitz Torah in a real way. But a siddur that the company already has? Nisht
I have been told that miluim recently increased the time required for reservist to serve. That indicates that yes more manpower is needed. How can anyone tell a family with a working father who leaves his business or employment for weeks on end (not to mention the extreme danger involved) that the army only wants him but not his neighbor? Apparently yes, if some element of the chareidim would join the army the burden would be less on other elements of society including the drum society. Arguments that the army is not a place suitable for a frum person so not negate the fact that the chareidim are needed.
Perhaps while we are at it someone can explain the why a rally to honor the BMG lomdei Torah needs to be a half music concert. Is it because otherwise no one would show? If so that is the answer to the op
Mazal tov from the entire YW Coffee room family (you know who you are). Before you take on a new persona two points
a) Many yeshivos are still called by they city of origin even though they are far from it (The Mir is no longer in Poland, Ponevitch is not in Lithuania etc.) You can always still be CTLAWYER wherever you are.
b) even after you take on a new name you will likely share the same issue as many other celebrities and will be known by ____, formerly known as _____ (think Prince, Kanye, Twitter……)
Clearly Rav AL Shteinman zt”l agreed that some young men would be better off in the army and that is why he backed the creation of Nachal Chareidi. Perhaps Rav Segal disagrees with Rav Shteinman? Apparently there is no consensus among the gedolim that anyone who claims to be a chareidi should be exempt.
I wonder if anyone has asked the “anti-draft Gedolim” the question “If Chareidim would constitute the overwhelming majority of the population, should there still be a draft? At what point do we say the Chareidim have overtaken the country and it is time to contribute to its defense in a physical way?”
UJM-My point exactly. The crux of the issues we are discussing is how to structure a system of army exemption. Israel is not currently a theocracy in which we will be able to create laws based on pesukim or statements of chazal. The value of ones learning, mitzvos, level of yiras shomayim etc. is totally irrelevant to this entire discussion. When eventually the entire country becomes shomrei Torah U mitzvos we can then start a whole new thread to discuss based on halacha who should be sent to war and in what capacity.
The issue now is how to handle the situation, given the facts on the ground and the history behind them. I believe these are some of the issues that come into play but please feel free to add or disagree with any of them
1) The country needs an army to exist. This is basic hishtadlus in pre-messianic times
2) The country is made up of a majority of people who either do not view Torah learning as a valid form of protecting the country or would like to see even those learning full-time contribute in some physical way (non-spritual) to the defense of the country
3) The current concept of exemption for full-time learners (i.e the status quo) was created as half-hearted concession at a time when the situation was totally different than today (400 vs 66,000)
4) There is no way of knowing numbers, but there are many chareidim who are gaming the system and not really learning full time but still take advantage of exemptions
5) There are many in the general Israeli population who have grown angrier and angrier at the Chareidi population because of issues 2,3 & 4 and also because of the money given to yeshivas. The war has exacerbated this anger and the PR response from the charedim has not helped.
Understandably, as more soldiers are killed or wounded, more children of soldiers are left orphaned, these feelings of resentment grow. Even soldiers who return alive, many have put their businesses and lives on hold and thousands have psychological scars. Everyone has friends or neighbors whose lives will never be the same.
If the response to these people (who like it or not are in power) is quoting chazal and calling people heretics if they don’t appreciate what you are doing does not seem to be an effective way of improving the situation. Refusing to negotiate in any way will only last for a short time.
So getting back to the topic of the OP, it seems like the chareidi world could use a much better PR system and if that means cutting short the vacation time (which is much longer than the rest of the working population), might be a good start. Even a well placed “thank you” would go a long way
Mnay within this same majority are resentful of the chareidim
UJM-I think you are confusing the issues. Your point about effort is true but only in regards to heavenly reward. Of course that is what will last for all eternity but that is a level that only G-D can judge and only G-D can reward. We have no way of becoming celestial accountants. Once we dip into that perhaps we should also give army exemptions to any Jew who will receive tremendous heavenly reward. What about someone who was raised secular and with superhuman strength becomes a shomer shabbos? Should his spiritual accomplishment translate into an army exemption?
We live in a world of reality where people need to work for a living and establish a functioning society. Like it or not, hishtadlus is still needed in all areas of life and society. As a society we need to come to an agreement on how we will function. I don’t think there is or ever was a single gadol that advocated for disbanding the army and said that no Jews should ever work for a living (including RaSHBI). There needs to be civil discourse and it is very possible that concessions will need to be made.
UJM-I am sorry that I overestimated your sense of logic and reason. Please correct me if I am wrong but you seem to imply that
1) The army is just a silly invention created by the chilinim and is not really necessary at all since the people who are learning are all the protection we need
2) The Chareidim owe zero hakoras hatov to those who are killed or wounded in the army because they had no business going into battle anyway (refer to point #1
3) Having an army is not really a form of hishtadlus or an at best it is overkill. After all who need more than one security guard to protect a bank vault?
4) Jews fighting in an army is just some 20th-century Zionist creation. We do not see anywhere in Jewish history that Jews fought in wars and if they did they were bad people who should have been in the Bais Medrash.
Please tell me if you disagree on any of these points
UJM_your logic highlights one major flaw in the message put out by the Chareidi world. Just because you have a certain belief and appreciation of the Torah, having an elitist and disconnected mentality will not draw the other person closer to your way of thinking. Your argument goes something like
“Why don’t the chilonom appreciate our Torah.? Don’t they know that Torah holds up the world?!
No, they don’t. They value learning gemara as much as a college student studying ancient Latin texts. Imagine one of these discussions.Reuven: My brother, who was a father of five, was just killed in the war, and his children will grow up orphans. My neighbors have similar tragedies. Shimon, why do you think you are better than us, and why can’t you also fight?”
Shimon: “Me fight? Soldiers are losers. Don’t you know that I study Latin! Try it sometime and you will see how difficult it is. ”
Reuven: “Maybe you can cut down on your extended vacation time and contribute in some way to the wat effort or at least show some appreciation to those who are laying down their lives for you?”
Shimon: Me show appreciation? You should appreciate how much Latin I study!. Latin students are so rare we need more of us!” Don’t you dare consider cutting off our funding1 The study of Latin is holding up the world!
Even for those who argue we can’t cancel bein Hazmanim, what about modifying it? Wouldn’t that also send a message to the chilonim that the Bnei Yeshivos are taking this war (and sharing the burden) seriously?
Yeshivos and Kollelim can’t have it both ways. You can’t say that you are the REAL protection for the country and then abandon your post for an entire month. Does that mean than if anyone is CV killed during bein Hazmanim that the Bnei Yeshivos will take the blame?
Those who are arguing that everyone needs a break is OK up until the point of comparing it to the rest of the world. How many other professions (other than teaching) give 10 weeks of vacation a year? Do the chayalim get that much vacation?
Lospsark_ You can’t be serious. Whatever effort you put into your boots, glasses and hat is ruined when the shirt is half way untucked, and the hat is smashed. Only Slabodka legacy yeshivos have the market on style.
Honestly, if you you want to check out what is in, just walk into any Mesivta in Lakewood, and take some notes. You will find eveyone wearing the exact same thing. If you are so bold you can say “hey dude, nice…. where did you get them?”
commonsaychel: I believe there were still telephones between 1900-1925.
Kuvult-just out of curiosity, did you listen?
If you are interested, I can send you pictures of myself each day so you can see what I am wearing. I have been told that I am the biggest trendsetter around.
For glasses, I recommend going on a site site like Zenni or googles4u and paying a fraction of the price. You could spend $500 to $1,000 for a piece of wire or you could spend $20-$50 but hey that’s up to you (Feel free to translate that in quid)
Mr. Klein, I hate to break it to you, but the Boston Jewish community is going downhill because of…. HOUSING PRICES! There are more affordable communities. The only hope we have is for people to get out of their head that they need to live in a community with tens of thousands of people just like them.
I am a bit curious what made you revive a four year old postingYou can’t really compare. 1967 was a total neis nigla from shomayim. 1973 was also a neis but in both wars we were fighting clear armies.
2008,2012, and 2014 were more like operations than wars. The objective in those Gaza wars was more to make a statement. The major difficulties here are the PR war that Israel is fighting and the fact that Hamas hides amongst civilians and the hostages. For all those who say “just turn Gaza into a parking lot”, that is not realistic. Even getting rid of Hamas is not a realistic objective. The most they can do is get through the skulls of all Palestinians that terrorism has a high price to pay so think about that next time you consider a massacre. If they could dump all the civilians somewhere it would be a whole different story. Problem is that no one wants them.
Avirah, your sytem does not work in the rischa deoraysa of yeshiva. Kol Hakovod to coffee addict for bringing back intelligent discussions to the YWN CR! And thank you, mods, for letting these discussions through.
When someone asks a good question, you can’t just say “Mesorah”! You need to back up your point from a source in shas and poskim. His whole question is how did that mesorah develop? We have always had women in Klal Yisrael who were not watching children.
To say it is not an ikar for women is also not an answer. No one said it is an ikar. The question is if there is not such a high level of difficulty why is not more commonly done? For a man to daven vasikin is also not an ikar but we don’t say “man should not daven vasikin bec. his ikar is learning Torah”
Hakatan_Do you have a source for that quote from Rav Schach? Rav Solovetchick was help in high regard by the American gedolim of his day. This includes Rav Aharon Kotler, Rav Moshe Feinstein, Rav Ruderman, Rav Hutner and Rav Gifter. Even though they disagreed with him on major issues they held him in high regard.
Several gedolim in EY may have used harsher language but for pipsqueaks to say he was not from among the gedolim of the 20th century is playing with fire.
I am curious UJM, do you also speak that way about Bais Shamai?
For those who question Rav Solvetchick on this issue and on nearly every other issue in which he was a daas yaachid, take into consideration the situation at the time. Orthodoxy was in danger of extinction, Conservative and reform Judaism were seen as the future of klal Yisrael, and the secular world was taking a nose dive in morals
The higher end brooks brothers usually do have shatnez. However, the question is completely irrelevant as any suit with wool or linen needs to be checked.
Troiling is a bigger avlah (Toisfos in A”Z 2b) That is lekulei alma
I received another doozy form the NY
“Analysis: Israel has made it deliberately hard to tell what is happening in its ground assault.”
Duhh. I can’t imagine why the IDF would not share their attack strategy with the NY Times. Even if the NYT would promise to keep a secret (between good friends) it is generally not wise to let the enemy know exactly what their plan is. What a bunch of idiots.
In order for this discussion to make any sense there needs to be consensus on the definition of Daas Torah. Is everyone OK with this
“Conferring with a Torah expert on matters that do not relate to halacha or hashkafa” An example would be asking a talmid chacham business advice.
Does anyone like that?
Thoughtful response: your explanation does not hold water for commodities that are shipped from elsewhere. All meat and most groceries and sold in Lakewood are not produced in Lakewood. The only difference would be the shipping costs to Lakewood which even if it is higher is minimal. It is the overall supply and demand on an INDUSTRY that will have that effect on prices.
I think prices are much more effected by attitudes and mindsets. If more people in Lakewood just buy items without concern for prices and don’t change spending habits, store owners will raise prices to what they can get away with. If Lakewood has become the Ir HaTorah Vehagashmius prices rise accordingly.
Check this out in a few weeks from now when people start buying arba minim. Compare the cheapest set (or average set) in Lakewood vs. Brooklyn. All of these goods are being shipped from elsewhere. I think that you will notice the prices are much higher in Lakewood than Brooklyn, Monsey, 5T, Passaic etc. You may say it is because people in Lakewood are more machshiv mitzvos or because the resident don’t think about it and just pay higher prices no matter what. The sellers will then adjust prices accordingly for the same exact sechora.
I do not live in Lakewood so I don’t know about all stores but I do occasionally visit. I have noticed that while I can often find some good deals on food in all the other major US east coast chariedi communities (Brooklyn, Monsey, 5 Towns etc.) it has been more rare to find good specials in Lakewood.
I assume babysitters is all based on a viscous cycle that as materialism goes up everyone needs to increase costs to keep up.
Ahhh! Nishtday, you and are the only one who understood my words. You are truly worthy of becoming my talmid. Gadol Hadorah and Ah yid will need to spend more time in hisbodedus until you are ready. Either that or I should choose my words more carefully next time.
Legend has it that the first time someone sang Lecha Dodi in Ner Israel in Baltimore, the mashgiach R. Dovid Kronglass Z”TL (an Alter Mirer) walked out in protest. For those interested I may even hint to you who that baal tefila was.
Back in slabodka we did not sing lecha dodi. This is an American invention in the litvishe kehilos and should be abolished
I had so much pleasure a few years when I called Geico to cancel my insurance because I found a better rate somewhere else. I told the operator “I have some great news! I just save over 15% by switching out of Geico!”
It could be that I was the only one in the conversation that was amused.