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Where no bachur has gone before.
GAW, Now you are getting to the crux of the matter. Unfortunately the issue cannot be discussed further without getting somewhat more explicit and this is not the venue for that. But, you’ve hit the nail on the head.
There are two kinds of domestic cattle. cattle without shoulder humps like European cattle and humped cattle like the Zebu and other Indian and eastern breeds. both varieties are inter-fertile. Zebus and zebu crossbreeds relatively resistant to heat and so are more commonly raised in the southern U.S. and South America. Humped cattle are shown in Egyptian friezes and were undoubtedly known in ancient Israel and Bavel. When Abaye and Rava had a barbecue, the steaks came from a Zebu or related variety..
Bison, on the other hand, were never farmed until recently and while kosher, may very well be chayos. Other kosher wild animals that are currently farmed are deer, American Elk and Eland (a kind of big antelope) in South Africa.
Interestingly, besides the American bison that we all know, there is a European variety, called Wissent, that is found in eastern Poland and Belarus. The RAMAH must have been familiar with it.
How to make friends in the CR:
Be opinionated, unreasonable, condescending, snarky, insulting and hostile. Works for me.
WIY, I was a man last week, I think. At my age, my memory isn’t so good. Seriously, if you’re a man, you know from your own experience that what you say isn’t so. Certainly there are menuvalim in the world, but you’re not one of them. You know what feelings you have and you know how to control them. Why do you suppose the rest of us aren’t the same as you are?
P.S. I apologize for the harsh tone of my last response to you. The above is what I should have said.
JewishFem, while i’m sure that you are correct about attraction, there are different nuances, k’d”amri inshi, “An ugly, rich man is a rich man.”
Leeb W, I think that your analysis is correct except that you have the “some people” and “most people” reversed. Most folks go to casinos for entertainment and excitement and don’t gamble more than they can afford to lose. Some people can’t control themselves and get into trouble.
From a halachic perspective, my opinion is (and i’m sure some of you will be fighting to be the first to disagree with me) that recreational casino goers are not considered mesaseik bekuvya and are not pasul l’eidus.
Vogue, no parents, siblings, friends to turn to for comfort and support? Anyway, notwithstanding other posts, it’s perfectly okay to be angry. Sometimes, it’s anger that pulls you through when faith and prayer don’t seem to work. Get angry, stay angry and show that “someone” that nothing and no one is going to shut you down.
The difference between eating turkey and eating bison (beefalo) is that beheimos and chayos have explicit simanim clearly enunciated in the Torah. The Torah does not specify simanim of kosher ofos. the simanim for birds are from divrei sofrim. A better question would be is a bison/beefalo a beheima or a chayah requiring kisui.
I have seen bison meat with chashuva hechseirim. Bison is very lean and one must be careful not to overcook it. An overcooked bison burger very closely resembles a hockey puck both in appearance and texture.
Yeshivish, MO, Modern Yeshivish, Rationalist, mystic, chassidish, Black Hat, Grey Hat, Kippah Seruga, etc.
Can you say, “Lo Sizgodedu”?
TorahMom, I think you are confusing means and ends. What you, what all of us, want is zaarah chaya v’kayama. Zaarah d’lo yifsok v’lo yivsul mi pisgamei Oraisah. I think you would have a better chance of obtaining that result if you were to emulate Needs Seminary Help’s mom.
It’s not what’s on your head that means anything. It’s what’s in your head that counts.
Sanity, that only applies to animals.
Moi, my beracha to you is that you should continue to be happy and that you should find out why.
If anything, reading the posts and comments here has made me hold more firmly to the opinions I had to start out with. My hope and intent is to change the opinions of the others in the CR.
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Keepitcomming, you correctly differentiate between “wants” and “needs”. That’s Management 101. But you left out one very important, if not the most important, “need”. Chemistry. You’re not hiring an employee, you’re looking for your helpmeet, your ezer kenegdo, your life companion, the father of your children. “Emotionally healthy, good midos”, etc. are important but don’t leave out mutual attraction. Most married folks have occasions when they disappoint their spouse. Look at me. I’m no prize. I’m not always what my wife wishes I were (although I make an effort) and, truth be told, my wife has been known, on rare occasions, to disappoint me, but we’ve been married for 43 years and have, thank G-d, beautiful frum children and grandchildren and I couldn’t imagine not being married to her nor she to me. Whatever your “wants” and “needs” are, if you can find a shidduch like I did, you’ll be doing fine.
WIY, LAB’s RAMBAM quote might not be a psak, but it certainly is dais torah.
Akuperma has a point. I gave up smoking 35 years ago but I was quite a heavy smoker (started in yeshiva. Didn’t we all?). The odd thing was that not smoking on Shabbos never bothered me. Just act like the day after Shabbos is still Shabbos and the day after that and the day after that. Worked for me.
From the perspective of 43 years of successful marriage let me offer the following example:
Avrohom Avinu was among the greatest men who ever lived and the father of us all. Yet when it came to a major disagreement with Sarah, HaShem said, “listen to your wife”. And this wasn’t about tidying up the tent. It was about disowning Avrohom’s bechor.
You want a long, happy and successful marriage? Listen to your wife. Your success in life, in parnassa, in learning is through the zechuyos of your wife. do what she says.
WIY, You are speaking from ignorance and you are making my point for me. If what you say was as commonplace as you seem to think, it wouldn’t be news. I am sure that I have far more experience in the world than you do and I unequivocally maintain that the great majority of men, Jew and Gentile, are gentlemen. You’re at liberty to disagree but, basically, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
And that’s all I have to say about that.
WIY firstly, i disagree with your basic premise about instant desire. While I concede that men are more easily enticed than women, for most men in my experience, Jew and Gentile, admiration does not imply deep desire anymore than admiration of a beautiful house or car implies instant deep desire to possess same. Secondly, the thread is not about women dressing provocatively. It specifically refers to “technically” tznius attire. By definition, women’s attire that conforms to halacha is not provocative. It may be attractive but that’s okay. Halacha does not require women to dress like slobs or Muslim women in burqa.
MMS601, I read books. You should try it sometime. Snarkiness aside, Besides my Engineering degree, I have a minor in classical history. The literature from and about those times, and Georgian England, not to mention Elizabethan England (read some Shakespeare) Is widely available on line or at any public library. I don’t know who you are or what you are but if you’ve been taught, that America is in the 49th stage of tumeh, someone has filled your head with trash. The U.S. is fairly straight laced even by 21st century world standards.
WIY, are you a man? What’s your reaction? The fact is that noticing that a woman is attractive isn’t assur. otherwise Beis Yaakov meidlach wouldn’t make an effort to look attractive, get dressed up and made up, for shidduch dates. “Evil thoughts” are assur. Most men, Jew and Gentile, don’t entertain such thoughts. Unless you are a man and actually have such thoughts, what you were taught is nonsense.
The answer from Chazal is, Yes. He should wait until he has a parnassa before he gets married.
For those of you to young to know, in the old western movies and series, the bad guys always wore black hats and the good guys always wore white hats.
Need Seminary Help, my bracha to you is that you should grow to be the same kind of mother your mom is. You should thank the Eibishter every day that you have such wise parents (and I’d bet you do). And I’ll tell you something else. Any seminary that has a problem with the way you were raised is a seminary that doesn’t deserve to have you as a student.
Froggie, if you fight with your hands and not your head, another part of your anatomy is going to get kicked. in the ancient world, which includes includes Israel and Judea, different nations had different attitudes about waging war. Jews fought many wars, some defensive, some aggressive. the difference between us and the other Umos Haolam is that we always, even to the present day, understood that victory and defeat are in the Hands and Head (figuratively speaking) of the Borei Olam.
it’s “BORED” not “BOARD”
Ladies, the people and and sem teachers who are telling you how men think don’t, themselves, have a clue how men think. To hear them, and some of the posters here, tell it men apparently think of little else. I’m surprised that men remember to eat. The fact is that the great majority of men don’t have “evil thoughts” when they see women going about their business. You all just dress and behave in a way that conforms to normative halacha and don’t worry about what men may be thinking.
WIY, I’ve been a Consulting Engineer for over 40 years. I’ve been on construction sites in all 48 contiguous states and Alaska as well as 17 foreign countries on four continents. I’ve been around the world twice, been to two World’s Fairs and a Texas goat roping. I’ve dealt with CEOs of major corporations and with construction workers. I have a pretty good idea of what goes on the the “Goyishe Veldt”. The fact is that on a licentiousness scale of one to ten, modern American society is about a four and compared to some earlier societies like classical Greece and Rome, or even Georgian England, we’re not even on the chart. The fact that a men, be he CEO or Ironworker, finds a woman attractive (and vice versa) doesn’t make him a pig. It is his actions that determine whether or not he is a pig or a gentleman. The overwhelming majority of American men are the latter.
ain’t it a hoot? Downandin, I know what you’re talking about. As a self-employed head of household, I’m stuck. I can’t collect unemployment because i’m technically employed (by myself) even if I have no income,
Downandin, don’t worry! you’ll make it. I, Redleg, give you a beracha, not only for parnassa but also for yishuv hadaas, children who are shomrei mittza, and long and happy life.
TorahMom, it depends on what you mean by ‘accident” and “bad things”. Back in the early days of the internet it was relatively easy to accidentally get to an “inappropriate” site. Further, such sites would “mousetrap”you and the only way to get out of them was to shut down your browser (Webcrawler was the browser). Today, the way Internet providers run their servers, it’s almost impossible to get to such sites by accident.
On the other hand, if you do a Google search on a Torah topic, it is easily possible to get to a site with who’s hashgafa you disagree or find objectionable. So if that’s what you mean by “wrong place”, you’re right.
To my mind, social networking sites and chat rooms are a bigger danger to young minds than sites like, “FFFFF” and “DDDDD”. Mind you, not all networking sites are bad. Linkedin is useful but I doubt that a teenager would find it interesting.
Froggie, both Dovid haMelech and Shlomo haMelech fought wars of conquest as well as defensive wars., as did later Davidic and Hasmonean kings. These are what we refer to as milchemei reshus. Another interesting item is that none of the Books of Apocrypha cited above mention the neis of the menorah.
A couple of thoughts on this thread:
Krav Maga and similar styles are good because they are based on real world situations and not Bruce Lee movies. However, self defense isn’t really about technique, it’s about attitude and mind-set. Almost any technique or not technique at all is effective if the fighter acts quickly and violently. You’ve got to want to defeat your attacker and to do so by any means and at any cost. In the movie “The Shootist”, John Wayne’s character describes the fighting mind-set. Speaking of gunfighting he says,”it’s not being fast, or even accurate. I’t being willing.”
Marial Arts training is good exercise and fun. But real self-defense isn’t about executing a perfect Osoto Gari, It’s about attacking your attacker and keeping attacking until he either runs away or stops moving.
Unter das vigeleh
ligt a clohr vaiss tzigeleh
The song is a lullaby. I isn’t about anything
Here’s the key question to my mind. Do Jews have a chiyuv to prevent Goyim from sinning? As Jews we have a chiyuv to admonish other Jews who are over aveirah. SSM is clearly against the Sheva Mitzvos. Do we have the same obligation to admonish Gentiles for violating any of the Sheva Mitzvos?
Let’s take a less emotionally charged issue. The Constitution guarantees the free practice of religion and the U.S. Statutes prohibit discrimination on the basis of religion as well. The Law protects all religions including Hinduism which is clearly Avodas Zora and is also a violation of the Sheva Mitzvos. Are Jews obligated to protest laws protecting said Avodas Zora? Note that the penalty for Avodas Zora and Arayos is the same, both for Jews and Gentiles.
I wear a white hat because I’m a good guy.
It has been my custom on shabbos since youth to wear a dark felt hat in the winter and a light straw hat in the summer. One summer shabbos I was walking to shul in my whitish straw hat and one of the neighborhood kids saw me and asked why I was wearing a white hat. The answer that came to my mind instantly is the one, I’m sure, that would occur to anyone on this thread over, say, 60. What do you think I answered the kid?
Please note that Shabbos is over in E.Y. about seven hours before it’s over in New York.
Back in the shtetl, you were too busy trying to make a living to spend much time in the beis medrash. The reality of shtetl life doesn’t shtim with your romantic vision. For the vast majority of Jews in the Russian empire, formal Jewish education ended at bar mitzvah. Only the very few who either had wealth or were from rabbinic families were able to continue learning into young adulthood. Of course, informal learning continued. There were chaburos for Mishna, Gemorah, etc. but the idea that the the shtetl was some kind of idyllic Jewish refuge is nonsense. To paraphrase Dickens, life in the shtetl was “Like an English winter day. Dirty, dark and short.”
Getzel, while we don’t expect you to be an expert on Catholic religious practice, FYI, Catholics genuflect on both knees, not only one. Further, genuflection is not specifically a Christian practice. Moslems do it five times a day and no one thinks Islam is avodas zora. For goodness sake, WE do it on Yom Kippur in remembrance of the avodah in the Beis Hamkdash.. If anything, the Christians and the Moslems got it from us.
You know what? Maybe we are all to hasty with our posts. What do you want?
News flash! Some animals eat other animals (so do we, for that matter). HaShem made it that way. Anthropomorphizing cute little baby ducks and baby lambs (lamb chops) is not only juvenile, it is, in effect, telling G-d that you have a better way to run the universe.
P.S. If you think that “nature, red in tooth and claw”, is upsetting, I suggest a visit to a shlacht house.
Leave nature to the Author of Nature.
You know, Froggie has a point. If you think enough of someone that you value their advice and you find that you disagree with the advice offered, you need to carefully consider that they may be right and that you’re wrong.
The group in questions has extensive real estate holdings in Sullivan County. Gambling would significantly increase the value of those holdings.