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There met be more than one community where you can accomplish your goal, but I would put Huntington high on the list. It is all baalei teshuva ranging from conservadox to frum for 20 years. The rabbi is a huge Talmud chochom. People there are generally looking to grow. It is in western suffiolk and commutable. Popa what do you think? I think you know the rabbi and some families.
see previous post.
Ayein noseh keilim on shulchan aruch who seem to learn that it is singing. Therefore above post was a joke 😉
It's not forbidden to talk to a female. SO why can't u read a book that a female wrote????
Well, is it more like talking or more like singing?what the heter to speak? Ayein the gemorah in kedushin whre it is clearly discussing speaking by “kol beisha erva”
I dont work for any agency. I have a friend on here with several aliases. You started to sound like him so I was curious. he knows my code name, and apparently isnt you.
Nice meeting you thought.
Rav HaMachshir,
What agency do you work with? And if the mods can put us in touch, maybe we can see. If not, I am always interested in meeting new people, especially people in klei kodesh.
Tznius dress is Talmudically conceived of as a function of geography, in many instances. For instance, in Boro Park, a woman probably shouldn't go with bare feet, while in other communities, this would be mutar.True. But the nosei kalim dont seem to apply that to 3 year old girls(who are yelados, not nashim, but whatever). I just checked.
if you read the rest of the seif, he goes on to discuss all the things that are assur with arayos. presumably he was just introducing the discussion about arayos.
RH: The Shulchan Aruch states, l'halacha, to -quote- "stay far far away from women."Reb Doniel, are you saying that in a place where it is normal that it is ok to do what some people here would say is not tzneus?
Also, Do I know you?
I imagine you wouldnt say the following-“The pesak should be its assur to learn in kollel if you need to be supported. Even if its muttal meikar hadin(Rav Moshe says if its the only way that its ok-as i recall), “Es pas nisht””
We dont just make up issurim because you decide its pass nisht
The psaq here should be that one should avoid any negiah with a niece of nephew of the opposite gender. Even if something may be ok mikar hadin, it's still "es past nisht."The shulchan aruch (well at least the gemorah and im sure its in the siman about yichud in EH~22)says you cant have yichud with her anyway. As for touching, I would tend to assume that its not appropriate, though I am subject to the same biases that you are. However do you have a source that anyone says its a problem? Its definitely NOT lo sikrevu. The structure of most of these prohibitions is Los Sikrevu.
RH: Suppose a 16 year old did go. Do you dispute that she is still forbidden to be touched by anyone?Same here. The police dont look at it too kindly either. However, it may or may not be a religious issue…
Maybe, but still, es past nisht. When I have kids, I wouldn't want them to be touched too much by aunts or uncles.16 yr olds dont go to the mikve. If they do we can discuss it then.
There is a special gezeira to make yichud with a penuya tehorah forbiden(Dovid hamelech was gozer). Was there a similar gezera on negiah??
Even if there was, was it on negia with a little girl or with a mature woman(12+)?
I’m not saying there isnt, but is there one?
RH: Why should it be different between an 8 year old and a 16 year old (who went to the mikva)? Are you suggesting that it is okay for anyone to touch the 16 year old girl?It could be the rambam thought it was gross to hug and kiss an erva. Who says he thought it was gross to kiss a 6 year old niece?
Note, the rambam doesnt say it is gross to kiss a sister, just an adult one. Maybe he things its gross to kiss an adult you cant marry. Maybe its ok to kiss a child(also maybe its a different kind of kissing than an adult)
If the Rambam goes to the extent of saying that Hammechabbek 'achat min ha'arayot she'ein libbo shella'adam nokefo 'aleihen, 'o shennishak 'achat --mehen-kegon 'achoto haggedolah, va'achot 'immo, vechaiyotze --bahen-'af 'al pi she'ein sham ta'avah velo hana'ah kelal, harei zeh megunneh beyoter. vedavar zeh 'asur hu, uma'aseh tippeshim --hu-she'ein kerevin le'ervah kelal, bein gedolah bein ketannah chutz meha'em livnah, veha'av levitto, how much more would it be distasteful and assur to have negiah with a niece. (Issurei Biah 21:6)Every 16 yr old girl you(and I) know is a nida, so bringing a proof from how we view things is a bit tough.
Dovid hamelech was gozer on Yichud with a penuyah. You tell me, hwas there any gezera ever about touching a penuya.
The torah discusses an issur of kereiva to arayos. Who extended it to non arayos(16 yr old non nidas and 3 yr old girls)?
There is a concept of not coming close to an aveira (asu seyag latorah) so lewd speech or behavior might get included as a seyag to
Lo tihyeh kadeish, but that would hardly be relevent to giving a 3 yr old niece a kiss or a pat on the back(whereas it might be relevent to your 16 yr old unmarried neighbor who you know goes to the mikva)RH: Why should it be different between an 8 year old and a 16 year old (who went to the mikva)? Are you suggesting that it is okay for anyone to touch the 16 year old girl?I think the discussion here is whether shomer negia applies to arayos (nida, another man’s wife, a relative you are not allowed to marry, such as sister in law etc) or to other woman/girls as well.
BTW, what is your source for shomer negia by non arayos?
RavHamachshir: Your point would indicate that you believe it permissible for men to touch girls (anytime he isn't davening). This is clearly incorrect. (Shomer Negiah.)Not really. You are not allowed to hold your moneybelt or shild while davening, but you are allowed to hold a moneybelt or child any other time.
You are not allowed to daven while in a bathroom, but you are allowed to be in a bathroom while not davening.
So, Maybe, you are not allowed to look at a little girl while davening, but are allowed to look or touch a girl(unless its creepy, cuz then you might scar her and you might end up in jail)while not davening
Sam2: Reading your two comments here, it seems you are under the impression that men may touch girls until they reach puberty even though they may not even look at the upper arms or legs of the same girl over age 3 (per the Chofetz Chaim) or 6 (per the Chazon Ish).
That would be counterintuitive, wouldn't it.I heard that it was ok since you view her as a daughter etc.(I believe it was quoted from Rav Moshe, but I have not seen this inside.)
Has anyone ever SEEN this shaalah discussed?
I challenge you to find a Rav or Posek who will admonish a father for hugging or kissing his adopted daughter.the only source we have for this presented for this was the Aruch hashulchan which was contested(due to the assertion(I dont have an aruch hashulchan in front of me) that it doesnt say you cant touch). The mishene berura in OC is probably discussing looking at an undressed girl.
So, what is the source for your statement? She may be no different, but why does that make them both forbidden. Maybe they are both permitted?
A neice is no different than any other strange girl is concerned, as far as the impermissibility to touch her.Source? (other than us law and international creep laws)
kfb: You're allowed to touch 11 year old girls?!? Absolutely not.Aunt is an erva. Neice is not. Hence, they probably are not the same.
yes
the same applies to an auntThe question was Does the mishne berura say that you may not touch your niece?
That the halacha is the same for any girl, related or not, may be true. Though the identical halacha may be that it is muttar. So does the MB say its Assur?
Siman 21 in EH discusses various things not to do with arayos, but niece or neighbors daughter are not arayos.
FYI if you touch your niece or any other girl, you may end up in jail, but that is a different discussion
The gemorah has stories of amoraim not judging cases after receiving even the most minute favor. What were the amoraim suspect of?
The basic pshat is that shochad blinds(for details, see Toras Moshe [the bible] and its Meforshim).
You can be a good person as still make a mistake. So that rabbis didn’t judge cases where there was even the most minute amount of potential bias. It would seem that to use someone with a huge bias (every son looks up toward his father and presumably he was chasidic himself) to bring proofs like this is weak. he is not suspect for anything. Its just not the strongest proof.
The chofetz chaim quotes the baal hatanya and the divrei chaim (rav chaim of sanz) frequently in the mishne berura
Simcha613,
I agree that
It's not always in the parent's control and sometimes the best eitzah is tefilah.,but in the case of the avos it would seem that the medrash was saying that they reacted incorrectly to what their children were doing(or something like that, I dont recall the exact details).
If the woman is married(and there is eidim and hasraah), the man gets killed. If she is single, he has to marry her and can never divorce her. If he is ashkenazi, he probably has to give her father 50 silver coins.
It could be he also get lashes for violating the “Lo tihie kedeisha,” though it may depend if thats what she was.
All this is in addition to kares, which he gets if she was a niddah.
If she was not a niddah, she was probably under age, which would be statuatory rape, and hell probably go to jail.
If she was not a niddah and not underage, she is probably about to get married, and her fiance will probably kill them both.
Cherrybim,
Take a look at the medrash rabbah(very beginning of brashis or shemos(or one of the other 3 chumashim)) where the parenting mistakes of the aforementioned avos are laid out. It doesn’t mention that they had split personalities, but as PBA mentioned, some children need special treatment without which they will end up in trouble. But, not every child of a parent who is unsuccessful at parenting will necessarily end up in trouble.
So, therefore, it could be that avreham and yitzchak made mistakes (dkei dakos ones for those with slabodka leanings) and contributed to their childrens eventual sins, while NOT having split personalities.
As was mentioned, when the source of a proof is nogea bedavar, the proof is suspect. At times there are several ways to see things, but the view of the son of the (potential) underdog (lets use the baal hatanya as a proxy for chasidim) that his father was not only correct, but that the dissenters were actually in agreement (save for other proofs which you had not yet furnished) seems a bit weak
RavHamachshir- I don't see how it's a week proof *at all*, and I never said its the only proof, and it isn't. Please explain what makes it a week proof. What are you suspecting, a lie or a misunderstanding? Why would you suspect that?Not comment on his opinion of chasidim, but using the son of the Baal Hatanya as the sole source of a nonchasisdic rabbi’s opinion of chasisidm leaves us with a pretty weak proof of his position
We can easily expect that women are created in a way that the way they reach shleimus is not through torah.
This addresses your question as well. If a woman learns torah, she will not become closer to Hashem through it. If she says she is, you know that it is not Hashem she is becoming closer to.Women can reach shleimus without lulav or shofar as well. But, don’t we have a concept of non-mechuyavim getting schar as well(gadol hametzuveh veoseh…so you see there is schar just a metzuveh is greater). I doubt you tell your mother these type of things about shofar lulav or davening. My understanding is that we consider it a good/nice thing to do.
As for learning, is it worse than sitting in a sukah(other than the feminist implications)?
You may answer tiflus, but that seems to be an issue with teaching and not with learning(though I imagine some may argue that point).
So, just like there is schar for shofar or sukah, why wouldn there be schar for torah study.
Also, as mentioned, why cant they have that exposure to hashem?
I guess if that is what it is, then it is no more of a waste of time than watching movies all day. But can’t they find something productive to do?
If you had no chiyuv limud hatorah would you never learn. Didnt they teach in the yeshiva you went to that torah helps a person get close to hashem and understand his ways? and that learning makes you a better person(in a different way than putting on tefilin or shiluach haken does)?
Why cant that be an asperation a woman as well(my question is only in a case where the woman is interested in these things. you were were that there could be a case when a woman was learning not for feminism, but indicated that it would be a total waste of time )
aren’t you allowed to cut bread you intend to eat with meat with a meat knife. and don’t we assume meat knife has meat on it?
How much bread did you cook?
Less than a days worth is probably fine(as I recall).
Also, Its probably not really issur. Its just something you cant have around, right?
Health,
Rav Yaakov’s son said that rav yaakov concluded based on that phenomenon that the given section of the rambam as based on the scientists of that time who apparently had a mistake.
He concluded that that part of the rambam was not torah.
However, something equaly troubling to some in today’s environment, the rambam wrote things which were science(and not torah) in his great book.
The speech he(Rav Noson) gave is available online(goggle “making of a ban” and “yu”)
YES i know i have to be dan l’kaf zechus but i need some help doing that. are there any reasons a person is allowed to do that? i’d really appreciate the help right now. Thanx!
Rav Moshe says that a person is allowed to take of his head covering to help him get or keep a job. thats a good dan lekaf zechus.
I could be this person feels that he needs to take it off even before reaching his office so that when he meets people in the street he wont make whatever impression he wants to avoid at the office
Learning in Kollel is the ideal for every religious Jew.
Huh? what about all(most) the Tanoim, Amoraim, Rashi, and others who worked for a living?
What about Rav AL Stienmean was for the creation of working and army opportunities for people who cant/dont want to learn all day forever.
With so much pressure from within the Jewish community shaped from outside influences against learning in Kollel, we must hold strong and continue the Mesorah of our forefathers.
A bit of historical honesty(or if your ignorant, then knowledge) would be in appropriate.
The mesorah from our forefathers is NOT to learn in kollel. The Kovnah kollel (created by the alter of slabodka {Rav Noson Tzvi Finkel}) had a limit on how long you could learn there(I think 3 years) and it was only for people planning on becoming rabbis rabeim etc.
Historically NO SUCH THING EVER EXISTED. To say it has become necessary is a statement worthy of discussion/ debate /stating outright etc. But to say
“we must hold strong and continue the Mesorah of our forefathers” is to lie and counterfeit the menorah that we have.
Tosfos(kesubos 4a) discusses a scenario where the husband of a dead woman proposes to her sister at the burial. Tosfos says that is called shiduchin. It is clear from context that there was no “shadchan”, and we can infer what the term shiduchin refers to.
POPA,
section 1983 can be exercised if you have your right to phone access denied(http://www.jailhouselaw.org/Chp2_Final.pdf), but I assume that is not what you are talking about. Which law is violated by a police man lying?
The only one I can come up with is depriving you of property(by making you pay a false claim), but thats in the declaration of independence, not the constitution.
is the answer sfek sfeka?
It is back south again. If anyone can lend me a pair of binoculars, I could tell you more about it.
If anyone has a pair, and figured out where I am, and is near me, please exchange information with me so we can look.
Near lake michigan. So, maybe wits guys can use this as their satan?
But what if they serve onions and you use your fork and knife that were in the dishwasher?
Hmmm.
even if you you use a knife on onion, the taam wont come out of the knife, but there is no treif taam in the knife, cuz where did it come from? – not he dishwasher which is more than a ben yomo. you could have a real problem if you cooked treif in the dishwasher and then used it to cut the onion
this year instead of sending a donation to the yeshiva as i always do i sent them shalach manos