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Apushatayid, What questions? The only question I asked was why can’t the IDF accomodate people who don’t want to attend the “entertainment” which does not appear to be a subject for piskei rabbanim. My comment concerning yeharog v’al ya’avor wasn’t a question, it was an opinion. you or anyone else is at liberty to disagree.
Ravshalem, I don’t think anyone, even Shmuely, is trying to, as you say, “kasher” what happened 2000 years ago, but your story does sound eerily familier.
Whether or not there are heteirim allowing listening to kol ishah in the case in question is beside the point. The issue is why the IDF cannot make a simple accomodation to those who feel that it violates religious practice. When I was in the service, one of our battaion officers was killed. Being that he was Catholic, the Battalion Chaplain held a Funeral Mass. All members of the battallion were expected to attend. I told my BC (Battery Commander) that I could not attend the Mass as I was Jewish (which, of course, he knew already) and it would violate my religion. I was excused, no problem. In fact, the Army went lifnim meshuras hadin to accomodate by occasionaly bizarre requirements. Of course, that was the U.S. Army. Why can’t the IDF be at least as accomodating.
Sam2, The Ma’amar mentioned was told over to our kehillah. I do not want to state the source of the citation. I personally had no knowledge of that ma’amer. Perhaps you are right that it shouldn’t be mentioned and I apparently violated my own warning about discussing the details of someone else’s religion. My comment about Boteach is still valid, however.
Boteach is completely full of himself (well, full of something). He loves controversy and the attention it gives him.
With regard to some of the other comments above, I think it is inappropriate to comment on who or what Jesus and the religion founded in his name is or isn’t or if he even actually existed. Our tafchid is to follow the ratzon HASHEM as laid down in his Torah, Shas and poskim. Our only interest in someone else’s religion is what it’s status is vis a vis avodas zorah as paskened by Chazal.
P.S. There are ma’amrei Chazal to the effect that Peter and Paul were actually shiluchei beis din with the mission to subvert the early Christian practice to separate it from Judaism.
Health, you seem to have missed an important nekudah of the mashul. You are correct that the bal agala is the main actor, but the horse and wagon are necessary and should also be shown “appreciation” in the form of care and maintenance. Horeses especially are living creatures with enough intelligence to understand extra care, a kind word and a pat on the neck. Soldiers deserve at least as much appreciation as one would give a faithful horse.
Another Item. Without disputing the issue, I take exception to the use of the term “yeharog v’al ya’avor” applied to issurim simply as an exclamation point. Yeharog v’al ya’avor is reserved for the most severe issurim, I.E. the Big Three (or any issurim b’shas hashmad). To apply the term to other issurim which, while serious, don’t really rise to the level of ultimate sacrifice does not so much reinforce the severity of the infraction as it deminishes the value of of that sacrifice. I am ready to lay down my life rather than allow myself to be forced to cross myself, or kill a fellow Jew (such cases actually happened in the Shoah), or commit incest. Should I really be ready to do the same to avoid hearing a woman sing, or use the internet, etc.?
P.S. Shoah is easier to type that holocaust.
Health, I liked your mashul, but surely the wagon driver needed the horse and wagon. He couldn’t have carried the fugitive to safety on his own back. Likewise, the zechusim of the lomdei Torah alone cannot defend Klal Yisroel. Klal Yisroel needs an army that the zechusim of the lomdei Torah can be mechazeik to be victorious.
A mashgiach is definitely an eid.
<of course I would like other traits too, but I have found that the men who have most of what i’m looking for have not been taught to treat women respectfully, and that is really hard for me to get over . . .>
Perhaps the probem is what you are looking for. Start at the other end. Look for guys who treat you and other women respectfully, then start thinking about what else you want in a husband.
RE Experience:
“The amount of experience gained is proportional to the amount of equipment destroyed.”
“Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you wanted.”
RE Committees:
“None of us is as dumb as all of us.”
Soliek, I don’t mean this derisively but are you writing from personal experience? Here’s a couple of my thoughts:
While we’re speaking of Thoreau, A more accurate description of the Human condition would be, “Most men lead lives of quiet desparation.” Most folks don’t escape, they just plod on.
Sometimes the path of least resistance is the right one. Challange isn’t always good.
What better and truer expression of appreciation could there be than paying a person more? If you boss didn’t appreciate you, he wouldn’t pay you anything. Businesses, particularly small businesses cannot afford to pay folks that they don’t appreciate.
You’d have to publicize that fact for about 80% of all Jewish music. There is absolutely no chet involved in using secular melodies for Jewish music, with the exception of recognizable Gentile religeous tunes like, for instance, “Silent Night”. Chill!
P.S. I’m sure that some (Health, for instance) will strongly disagree with me. They will be wrong.
This issue has always struck me as a Brisker kashea. Is the mitzvah of tzedakah a din in the cheftza or in the gavra? If the din is for latter, than one shoud give what one can and if the collector is a fraud, that’s his avlah. On the other hand, a din in the cheftza means that tzedaka money is mamon shel Heqdash and the donor acts as an apitrapos of Heqdash and must donate only to those peope or institutions that he (or she) is certain is worthy.
In practical application (not usually considered in Brisk), I think it’s a ittle of both. One should almost always give something, at least a minimum amount, and certainly never send anyone away from your door empty handed, but one shoud reserve one’s significant donations to people and institutions he knows are worthy.
You know, I’ve been following this thread on and off for the last couple of days and it seems to me that through all the discussion of sleeve length, hem line and hair covering, not to mention a few random rants from Health the main point is being missed. The unterste shura is that there can be no possible justification for cursing and physically assaulting an eight year old girl!
It doesn’t matter what she or her mother was or wasn’t wearing. The actions of those sub-human yahoos are irredeemable and I assure them and you that they cannot do teshuva for their monumental aveiros and that the have no cheilek in Olam Haba’a, and if they or anyone on this thread doubts my ability to make such a statement (that means you, Health), look me up in 120 years.
Chazal are clear that one should not issue a psak that will not be generally followed. when a ban on the internet or smart phones is generally ignored by the hamon am, it diminishes and engenders disrespect all piskei rabbanan.
Azolis, the thread seems to be perpetuating the LH and malbin pnai chaveiro, not preventing it.
The issue isn’t why kids go OTD, it’s why did this particular kid go OTD. However many reasons there may be for going OTD, the particular reason certainly matters to the individual OTD. And that particular reason has to be dealt with in that particular kiruv effort.
Why has this thread run on so long?
Zeeskeit, A technical point. A child simply born “out of wedlock” I.E. whose parents aren’t married, is not a mamzer. Only a child born of the arayos is a mamzer.
Jothar, Frodo was a wuss. Samwise was the greatest Hobbit who ever lived. P.S. Tolkien agrees.
Parve Ypachik – kugel with tofu
You know, the mussar sefarim and the popular literature on the subject usually instruct the reader to concetrate on those middos in which he (or she) is the weakest. Personally I think the approach should be that one should invest their efforts in their best characteristics to improve what they are best at and to avoid those situations where their weaknesses would be manifest. Just sayin’…
Bribery is usually given before the fact and a reward is usually given after the fact. Since the boy earns points and collects after reaching twenty, he is clearly being rewarded, not bribed.
As far as tweens going to shul, there are plenty of 10, 11 and 12 year old kids who go to shul on Shabbos with their fathers and spend there time out in the hall playing games. These kids need to learn to sit with their fathers and daven, not just go to shul.
NFGO3, you and BTGUY must be nearly as old as I am to remember Leo Gorcy!
Yeah, and what’s with the commonly sung tune? It is unlike any other Yiddishe niggun I’ve ever heard. My family does have an alternate niggun that sounds a good deal more, how shall I say, Jewish but where does the usual tune come from? (note that I don’t call it a niggun)
Drink of what? Water is probably okay.
In “der heim” it was quite common for older men to have young wives, often their second or third, because women’s life expectency was much lower than men’s. The reason was that it was not uncommon for women to die in childbirth, R’L, or from associated infections.
P.S. this might have been less of an issue in the Austro-Hungarian Empire where living conditions for Jews was better than in the Russian Empire.
Yenta, CBS stands for Columbia Broadcasting System
Only American Jews can criticize a U.S. President. If you are an Yisroeldike or British or European Jew, mind your own business!
Seriously, we’re Jews but we are also Americans with the same rights, protections and priviledges as any other American.
Pop , What are you so irked about? The school acted appropriately, having established raglayim l’davar. The Agudah’s position that only rabonim are quailfied to determine raglayim l’davar is fatally flawed. One, because most rabanim who are not in chinuch do not have the training, experience or insight to make an informed decision, two, mandated reporters generally do have the required knowledge, experience and insight, and three, raglayim l’davar is not a concept that is too technical for lay people to determine. Raglayim is simply reasonable suspicion and the mandated reporters in general, are simply better qualified to recognize signs of abuse than your rav, rebbe or rosh hayeshiva.
Please don’t confuse “Chanukah spirit” with the so called “Christmas spirit” that is all over the place at this time of year. The true Chanukah spirit is ” Mi laShem eilai”, the willingness to be moser nefesh for the RBSO and His Torah.
Health, the bottom line is that you say that nose rings are “probably assur” and I think that they are probably muttar (but disgusting). Let’s blayb by a teiku.
P.S. This machlokes only applies to nose and extra ear piercings (which are also revolting). Piercing other body parts, which has become somewhat popular in the general population, is, in my opinion, vadai assur as they are clearly related to pritzus.
I remember when the drinking age was 18 and the voting age was 21. The country was a lot better off then.
Really, under what possible circumstances would anyone offer alcohol to teenage guests? Kiddush wine? maybe. L’chaim? I don’t think so. Wine with the meal? Only in France.
Whether or not a violation of law occurs apparently depends on the individual State’s laws. (See post by yitayningwut above)
Also, try washing your kid’s clothes and bed clothes in HOT water. I heard a piece on the radio that the cold water detergents that allow the use of warm or cold water for laundry to prevent wrinkles just results in very clean lice.
One of the things that I find interesting by maskim megulim is that snake venom won’t hurt you if you swallow it (unless you have an bleeding ulcer or an open sore in your mouth). It has to be injected to work. Also, it is incorrect to say that snakes and reptiles, venomous or otherwise, are rarely found in populated areas, human habitation attracts rodents, and rats and mice are snakes favorite food. Just because you don’t see the snakes doesn’t mean that they aren’t there.
The difference would be this. If meat and fish is simply minhag and there no longer any real sakanah, then steak sauce containing anchovy,in which the fish content is not obvious and which is specifically intended for use with meat, should be perfectly fine.
<So, if the reason for the prohibition is inapplicable today (sakana) and the issur “falls to the wayside” (?), why then do we remove all fish related items before putting fleshing on the table on Shabbos? >
Why, indeed. Mommamania, that is precicely my question. Hakol modim that gilui is no longer a concern with liquids. Why, then, is fish and meat still assur mipnei sakana? Is it really a still sakana or simply minhag? If it is, as I suspect, simply a minhag (as it is in my house, by the way)why do we not still observe the issur mipnei sakana of drinking standing uncovered water?
Re clarinets sounding more “Yiddish”. That is completely true. The clarinet is usually the lead instrument in a Klezmer band. Klezmer is one of the few authentic Jewish musical forms developed since Churban Bayis Sheini. It is certainly more authentic than the Maccabeats.
Old Man, the issue of gilui is the same. The issur of drinking from an open container of standing water no longer applies because it is no longer recognized as a sakanah. Everyone else, why does fish and meat not follow the same principle?
Health, I didn’t say that pritzus couldn’t be an issur of chukas. I said that chukas hagoyim does not necessarily involve pritzus. Putting up a “Channukah bush” is assur als chukas hagoyim (not avodas zorah) but I fail to see any shemetz of pritzus in it.
Personally, I think nose rings are disgusting (ever see what happens when the wearer has a cold?) but to asser them based on personal oppinion is not a valid option. The standards of Jewish female adornment has always followed the general practice. For instance, hair coivering for married women was based on the societal standard in the zman hagemorah. Women cover their hair today because the Chachamim were gozer based on the above, notwithstanding that the custom is not followed today in the general population (vide Aruch haShulchan). No such gezeirah was issued on adornments so they continue to follow the general custom such as earings, necklaces, rings, brooches, etc. If nose rings are worn by the general population of women, they are muttar, disgusting, but muttar. Please also note that the general requirements of tznius still apply.
A practical vehicle is one that does what you want it to do. If you want a car that goes like stink, looks amazing and feels great to drive, and you have bags of money, then that’s a practical car for you. I want all those things. Alas, I’m missing the bags of money.
Kaufman’s Law: There is no automobile in the world that cannot be improved by the addition of 100 more horsepower.
Health, you are not only arrogant and opinionated, you are rude and insulting.
Mods, I think Health needs a time out.
To me an M-B AMG55 is a practical car. A Vauxhall Combo isn’t an automobile, it’s a “personal transportation module”.(Let’s not get into the “buying German” busines. I didn’t say I’d buy one, I said it was practical.)
<mdd -“Health, prust is not a halachic term. For chukos ha’goyim issur, it has to be pritsusdic. Red clothing causes reactions in men. To me something that is Prust is Pritzusdick! Even long hair and weird haircuts is Ossur from the S’A -this is even worse”>
Health, you appear to be paskening from your own Shulchan Aruch. The issur of chukas hagoyim is only tangentially related to pritzus. For instance, many hold that the custom of upsheren is based on Christian “breaching” ceremonies and is therefore assur als chukas hagoyim. Chukas hagoyim refers to all specific customs of the goyim not just pritzus.
The fact that you don’t like a particular style is just that, you don’t like it. Your likes and dislikes don’t constitute normative halacha.
P.S. The color read is frowned upon, not because it has any effect on men (maybe bulls) but because it is associated with ga’avah.
R.I. The punch line to that joke is, …by then you’ll be a mile away and you’ll have his shoes.” I think I heard that joke from Stephen Wright but it may be older.
Pop, As a kid, I remember seeing short features of folks skiing the old fashioned Nordic way. The women, not Jewish by the way, were skiing in long skirts. If you can find ski or travel magazines from the Thirties and Forties, you can see the pictures. However, I don’t believe that modern Alpine skiing can be done safely wearing a skirt.
1. What the woman said was not tochacha, it was pure lashon harah. Not only that, but the “friend” was over rechilus for repeating the lashon harah.
2. Rabbaim, since you could not possibly know what Ski was wearing, your comment was was pointless and mean spirited.
The major difference between a man’s shirt and a woman’s man-tailored (not fitted) shirt is the direction from which it is buttoned. The question then is, what’s the difference between a woman’s man-tailored shirt and a chassidishe shirt. It seems to me that the chassidim are the ones who are over lo silbash.
Gateshead is Lakewood with a Geordy accent. Also without the lake…or the wood.