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Hello99 wrote: “Also waiting 3 hours after meat has no basis in Halacha or minhag,”
Waiting 3 hours after meat is a chumra. It is a chumra on the Minhag of waiting 1 hour after meat, which does have a Mesora. In fact, many Rishonim in Ashkenaz held that no waiting is necessary at all. Therefore, 3 hours is certainly enough for members of those communities.
For personal reasons, I did not change from my six-hour wait, although I am not makpid on my children.
Hello99 wrote: “Not true. The community in Bavel even had yeshivos that were open consecutively from before the destruction of the First Beis HaMikdash until Saddam Hussein closed them. Similarly Egypt had a community during the time of the Bayis Sheini. Neither of them originated in Spain, but they are referred to as “sefardim”.”
I do not know where you got the idea about the Yeshivos of Bavel because it contradicts a Gemara in Sukka (see ?????? ???”? ????? ?’ ?”?). And there certainly have not been Gedolei HaPoskim all that time in Iraq. The fact that Egypt had a a community does not say anything about if they has Yeshivos.
Hello 99 wrote: “Actually there were “Ashkenazi” communities in France, Italy and Austria as far back in history as the ones in Germany. Anyways, there were established communities in Eastern Europe 500 years ago. Why should someone drop 5 centuries of minhagim because his ancestors may have briefly sojourned in Germany previously? And if you want to follow only “original” minhagim, go farther back to Bavel and EY???”
The Ashkenazi community of Germany (including Holland and Alsace-Lorraine) is a continuation of the communities of Italy. Rabbeinu Moshe ben Kalonymus of Lucca (passed away 4650) was brought by Emperor Charlemagne to Mainz to restart the Jewish settlement. Rabbeinu Tam (??”? ??? ???? ???? ??) voiced this sentiment about the two Torah-famous cities in Italy of Bari and Otranto. ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?’ ???????
In the Siddur of Rabbeinu Shlomo of Worms (lived during period of 1st Crusade-4856) he considers the customs of France and England to be inferior). It is no wonder that Rashi, who was born and served the community in France, nevertheless learned in Germany for there was the seat of Torah.
The Jewish community of Austria is relatively recent in these terms, having been started only after the expulsion of French Jewry in 5154 (the community in Germany was already established 500 years previously).
Regarding Bavel and E”Y, the Minhagim of Ashkenaz synthesize the Minhagim of Bavel and E”Y. The “Ashkenaz” community of Italy followed the Minhag E”Y exclusively until Abu Aharon came from Bavel to Italy and taught Rabbeinu Moshe of Lucca (mentioned above) the Kavanos of the Prayers. Thereafter, much of Minhag Bavel was incorporated. Nevertheless, many Minhagei E”Y were kept for special occasions. For example, the saying of ????? ???? ????? ????? instead of ?????? ?????? ????? was the Minhag E”Y for the whole year, regardless if there were Kohanim present or not. This Minhag was preserved for instances when there were Kohanim on Yom Tov. Saying ??? ??? ????? ?????? instead of ??? ????? in Maariv was said in E”Y every day. This is preserved for instances when the piyyutim of Maaravis are said.
Thus, Minhag Ashkenaz is certainly the most authentic and communities still exist that practise it.
Hello99 wrote: “I clarified with my Erloi neighbor the conduct in the Erloi Beis Medrash. In Erloi in Beitar tefillin are only put on at home before davening and not in shul at all. In Yerusholaim, the Rebbe has always worn tefillin in the Ezras Nashim or Sukka with a minyan of just 10 men accompanying him.”
However, the door between the Minyonim is always open (between the Sukka and the Beis Medrash) and the chazan (wearing Tefilin) for Shacharis and Hallel stands in the doorway as chazan for both Minyonim.
Hello99 to ME: “I am shocked by your rant against the “kabbalistic bandwagon”. Are you aware that the Magan Avraham and many other Gedolei HaAchronim quote extensively from kisvei haArizal and their words are nearly unanimously accepted by all Ashkenazi Jews and have been for many hundreds of years.”
Nowhere in those Acharonim is the stipulation that you must follow their words. Obviously, one who comprehends the spirit of the Kabbalistic suggestion, can then incorporate its practice in his daily life. But those who practise a mode of behaviour that has no explanation, except Kabbalistic, to which they are not privy, are merely fooling themselves into thinking that they are doing like the Ari HaKadosh.
Hello99 to ME “If your family was originally from Stolin then they were never Ashkenazim/German Jews, rather they were Litvaks. So you have not “returned my family to the way of Ashkenaz”, as minhag Lita has many significant differences from minhag Ashkenaz.”
Minhag Lita is a variation of Minhag Ostreich (or Minhag Polin as it is called today). If my family was from Stlolin, there is no way to know if my family was originally from Lita, Polin, Russia or Ashkenaz, because the chasidim changed the Nusach and a host of other minhagim along the way. My father observes a cholent of Minhagim from Stolin, Lita, Ashkenaz (because my mother is a Yekke). Therefore, he suggested to me to select a coordinated and consistent set of Minhagim from an established Kehilla in Klal Yisrael. After much research, I discovered that Minhag Ashkenaz is the best specimen. And so I adopted it.
If the Beitar KAJ mispallelim are returning to the true way of their ancestors, I bless them with success, and may all of the Jewish People follow in their footsteps and not just jump on the kabbalistic bandwagon without understanding why they’re doing what. The ikar of a kabbalistic practice is to solidify a kabbalistic idea in your soul. If the idea is lost, the action is largely wasted. In Ashkenaz, the shitah was to refrain from practising publicly any custom that has only kabbalistic explanations. Thus, the Sefaradic kabbalistic and chassidic eras had little or no effect on Minhag Ashkenaz, which is now returning slowly to the forefront of Jewish life, spearheaded by the indomitable Rabbi Hambuger of Bnei Brak.
Whether the fathers of mispallelim in Beitar’s KAJ wear Tefillin at all, should not be anybody’s concern, unless he needs to be motzi laaz on someone. Perhaps you should make this the topic of your next speech there, as well as a public apology.
In any case, my father wore Tefillin on CHM as well as my grandfather. But not because they were Ashkenazim, as I try to be. In fact, my great-grandfather and his father did not put Tefillin on CHM. They were Stoliner Chassidim. Rather my grandfather came to Canada in the mid-20s and decided that anybody who goes without Tefillin there for a whole week will become a goy. Thankfully, he remained a yid.
I have returned my family to the way of Ashkenaz which was the case for generations before Chassidus, for all its benefits and good sides, discontinued a lot of time-honoured and hallowed traditions.
K’hal Adas Yeshurun of Beitar is not largely Baalei Tshuva and Geirim. I think whoever made such a rash statement should visit there, as I have.
In the KAYJ of Ramot, one may wear Tefillin in the Ezras Nashim as I have seen visitors and members doing. And the reason has more to do with the shul not having its own building, but rather it is a bomb shelter in an apartment building, hardly separate from the general community. I should know, I have visited there frequently.
I have visited Erlau on CHM twice a year and everyone davens Nusach Ashkenaz. Most of the Tefillin-wearers are descendants of the Rav and the others (and it is more than ten) told the Rav at one time, that if it is good enough for the Rav, it is good enough for them. You may imagine if you like, but I would suggest visiting instead of imagining.
There are two Yekkishe minyanim in Kiryat Sefer. One of them, run by Rabbi Goldschmidt, one cannot wear Tefillin in the main shul. In the second, run by Rav Neumann, Tefillin on CHM is the norm and it is done in the shul itself.
Rav Scheinberg was not talking about Bnei Chu”l. He was talking about residents of Jerusalem.
I seriously doubt that Rav Ulman forbade Tefillin on CHM for the Goldschmidt shul in KS when he permitted it for the Viener shul in Jerusalem. It must have been someone else.
The Tshuvos of Rav Yitzchak Karo (there are only two) are at the end of the volume. Siman 1 discusses what to do when the poskim and the chachmei kabbalah are at odds with each other. Tefillin on CHM is used as an example. See the Sefer at: http://hebrewbooks.org/1838 on page 385 (page 404 of the PDF)
I have posted here the relevant T’shuva of R’ Moshe. I have put the words that we have been trying to draw attention to in brackets.
?’ ???? ?????? ????”? ??”? ????? ????? ?????? ????”? ???”? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????”? ?????? ???”? ?? ????? ?????? ????”?, ???? ???? ?????? ??”? ??? ???????? ?????? ???”? ??????? ????”? ????? ??”? ??”? ?? ?????? ?????? ????”? ????? ???? ???? ??”? ??? ????? ?????? ????”?, ??”? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?”? [??? ????] ????? ????? ????? ?”? ?? ???? ????? ????????, ??? ?? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ?”? ?”? ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ?”? ?”? ??????? ???? ????? ????????? ??? ?????. ??? ?”? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?”? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???, ??? ???? ???????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??????, [??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????] ???? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ?”? ?? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ????.
Whether practising a divergent custom from the prevalent view in a private minyan of your own is permitted or not, appears to be a machlokes between Rav Elyashiv and the Gra. Rav Elyashiv holds that wearing Tefillin in a private minyan is Assur. The Gra clearly held that it is not Lo Sisgodadu to hold a private Minyan of not-wearing Tefillin in a yes-wearing Tefillin city. Thus, the Gra held that a private Minyan is called B’tzin’a.
The Gaavad of Jerusalem was asked by someone if he may make a Minyan of Tefillin wearers on Chol HaMoed.
The Gaavad suggested not doing so but rather putting them on privately.
Thereupon the questioner asked if it was Osur to do so.
The Gaavad answered that he would not say that it is Osur, just that he recommends otherwise.
But as I pointed out before, that three big poskim of Bnei Brak have ruled that one may put on Tefillin on Chol Hamoed with a mniyan and so Rav Scheinberg rules as well.
Hello99,
It is not unheard of to have Tefillin worn in shul on Chol HaMoed. There are already three complete Kehillos that do so. One in Bnei Brak, Beitar and Jerusalem. And there is an additional Kehilla that has two minyonim, one with and one without, and the Rav davens with the one that does put on Tefillin. That Kehilla is the Erlauer Kehilla. The Erlauer Rav is a recognized Talmid Chacham and is a member of the Moetzes Gedolai HaTorah. He is a direct descendant of the Chasam Sofer and follows all of his minhagim.
Hello 99,
I think you need to read the Tsuva from R’ Moshe in OC 4:105.5 more carefully. He tells the questioner that he is permitted to desist from putting on Tefillin and is also permitted to continue doing so.
Hello99,
Shu”t Beis Yosef, published in Jerusalem 5720, T’shuvos Rav Yitzchak Karo, siman 1.
Rav Schach said (it is quoted in the Introduction to Shorshei Minhag Ashkenaz, vol. 1) that in Vilna, on Chol HaMoed, everyone put Tefillin on with a Bracha, except in the Gaon’s Kloiz. Also, in the time of the Vilna Gaon, he was the only one to run a Minyan that did not put on Tefillin, despite the local custom.
If the Gra could flaunt the local custom with a separate Minyan, this shows that running a separate Minyan, is not in violation of Lo Sisgodedu and is permitted. Thus, one can run a Minyan for Tefillin wearers in Israel without reservation. And don’t say that the Gra was an extremely holy man and thus he is permitted things that we are not, because that is a Christian concept and has nothing to do with Judaism.
ShlomoZalman,
The Minhagim of Eretz Yisroel are not of Minhagei HaGra.
First of all, there are dozens of Kehillos in Eretz Yisroel and they are all different from each other.
Secondly, Rav Scheinberg holds that there is no such thing as Minhag Eretz Yisroel, because of the first of all, because Eretz Yisroel is a big “melting pot” where every Rav and Rebbe that comes here does whatever he wants.
Thirdly, what people think is Minhag HaGra is more often a set of customs that the Talmidei HaGra established when they arrived in Yerusalayim. It was not totally Minhagei HaGra, but rather a hodgepodge of customs cooked up as a compromise between them and the Sefaradim. From the beginning of their settlement here, for at least 60 years, Ashkenazim could not have their own Kehilla or shul, due to the aftermath of the ill-conceived Messianic craze led by Rabbi Yehudah Chassid and Chaim Malach.
Fourth, people only follow Minhag HaGra (and Minhag Arizal too, for that matter) here when it is convenient. For example, I see a lot of Litvishe saying Tashlich for a long time. They don’t follow Minhag HaGra in that. Most people make two Brachos on their Tefillin, not like the Gra. Just go through Maasei Rav and you will see just how many Minhagei HaGra are not practised.
And lastly, there are more Sefaradim and Chassidim here than anyone else, so who established that Minhag HaGra is the rule?
This is a hotly contested topic in E”Y. Rav Elyashiv is quoted as saying (that does not imply that he said it) that someone who moves here should stop putting on Tefillin on Chol HaMoed.
However, Rav Tuvia Weiss, the head of the Eida Chareidis told me personally that he puts on Tefillin on Chol HaMoed privately and cannot believe that there is a Rav in the world that could tell someone whose Minhag is to put on Tefillin, to discontinue doing so. I told him that there are Rabbonim that so instruct and he said that in his opinion they have no Heter to so Pasken.
I myself have davened with the Erlauer Rav in Katamon in his Minyan of Tefillin wearers. I go there almost every 1st day of Chol HaMoed. The other days I daven with the Viener Minyan (they are a branch of the Schiff shul in New York) of Jerusalem. Their Kehillah wears Tefillin on Chol HaMoed and they have a Minyan for that purpose with the express permission of: Rav Shmuel Wosner (of Bnei Brak), Rav Nosson Gestetner (of Bnei Brak), Rav Ulman (of Bnei Brak), the Erlauer Rav (in Jerusalem), Rav Scheinberg (in Jerusalem).
Rav Binyomin Hamburger of Bnei Brak has a Minyan where they wear Tefillin on Chol HaMoed. There is also one in Beitar.
According to Rav Hamburger, anyone who is of Ashkenaz persuasion should at least put on Tefillin privately at least out of doubt, because it is a shaila of a Safek D’oraisa and according to many opinions, one who misses putting on Tefillin even one day may get the title of a Karkafta D’lo Manach Tefillin.
Anyone who is interested in joining such a Minyan in the future or is interested in organizing such a Minyan in his area is asked to write to <[email protected]>.
The Pupa Rav zt”l (a well-recognized Rav in Jerusalem at the time of Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld) has a Minyan of Tefillin wearers on Chol HaMoed.
Rav Gedaliah Eisemann (Mashgiach of Yeshivas Kol Torah) always put on Tefillin in the Ezras Nashim of the Yeshiva.
Rav Nosson Tzvi Finkel of the Mirrer Yeshiva instructs those bachurim with the Minhag to wear Tefillin on Chol HaMoed, to do so in the Ezras Nashim of the Yeshiva.
Rav Scheinberg goes on record to say that there is no such thing as Minhag E”Y or Minhag Yerushalayim today because it is today one huge “melting pot”.
In Toronto, Rav Shlomo Miller does not allow a non-Tefillin Minyan in his Kollel building.
The uncle of the Beis Yosef writes in a Tshuiva that in Spain, before the popularization of Kabbalah, the custom was to wear Tefillin on Chol HaMoed because they followed the Rosh in everything.
Therefore, no Ashkenazi should follow the cue of the Sefaradim, just as the Rosh did not, saying that his customs were more well-rooted that those of the Sefaradim, because his Torah was heritage from the Chachmei Ashkenaz and Tzorfas since the time of the destruction of the Beis HaMikdosh and that they had an uninterrupted established Yeshivos since then, a claim the Sefaradim could never replicate.
Have a Godd Yom Tov
SR