rabbiofberlin

annon-sinple,if your problems can be solved by rebuilding the Baiys Hamikdosh- “bimehero bejmenu- you can make “alyah’ and move to eretz yisroel. That would be useful step,don’t you thin?

Well, as my name was mentioned as “making fun of…” (not sure about what), I add my puzzled comment to others. Halacha is clearly something we have to accept from Poskim (the recent controversy about KosherSwitch would be an example). Anything else, however, can only be categorized as advise, which is optional. I am confused by the “non straw man daastorah’ name and have don’t know how this translates into reality. There may be gray areas,such as voting for a party , some may say it is halacha and binding ,others will say it is advise but one can make up his own mind.

zahavasdad: that description of Kastner , as a “useful idiot” may come close to the truth. Nonetheless, he saved 1400 jews that-otherwise- might have been killed. All those harebrained schemes that some very well meaning people devised -trucks for jews, etc..- was never realistic. The Allies would never give the Nazis war material. That was a true pipe-dream. At best, only a few thousand could be saved by bribes or other machinations -like giving visas. Jews in Hungary knew that Jews were being killed in large numbers- Polish refugees all told this story. The sad part was that few listened.

zahavasdad: you are buying into anti -zionist propaganda. What you wrote about Kastner is false. On that train was R”Jonasan Shteiff (av bes din of pest and no zionist) and his whole family, on that train were people that I knew and know- with no ties to Kastnr at all. The people were chosen at random and very little favoritism was shown. And if there were family members -would you not have protected your own family in such a situation? Schindler -a gentile- is immortalized because he saved 1400 jews. Kastner did the same, at much greater peril to his life. I am not immortalizing Kastner, but many people in Hungary knew what was going on in those camps- Polish refugees came to Hungary and told the people to flee for their lives but no one listened. Read some of the war stories by survivors and you will see that it was plain that the Nazis were out to kill all Jews in Europe. To single out Kastner is a convenient anti-zionist propaganda ploy to deflect from their own culpability in this whole sordid story.

HaLeivi and DaasYochid: Actually, the hetter of “mitoch” could be all- encompassing. If memory serves me right,originally “mitoch” was an absolute hetter and it was tosefos that insisted you need “zorech ketzas” (maybe de-rabbonon”. The hetter was based on the fact that once the Torah permitted a specific “melocho” on yom tov- for ochel nefesh- then that “melocho” was basically “muttor me-ikro” (think of the contrast of Tumoh dechyo or hutro). That is why tosefos has a “hava aminah” to allow building a house (as I said, it means fixing as building as building could have been done me’erev yom tov). And tosefos has to assume another de-rabbonon ,such as “uvdo dechol”. The avnei nezer is a chiddush-that only with an av melocho yo usay “mitoch” and I wonder whether it holds up in all manners.

HaLeiVi: If -according to you-even Joseph admits that today we have to support the medinah because there are many millions of Jews that live there, why all the long comments against it? Does it really matter whether a hundred years ago, there were some legitimate reasons not to found a medinah? Right now, the medinah is alive (and well, B’H) so let us dispense with the sterile arguments of the past and make common cause to see that yiddiskeit flourishes in the medinah.

DaasYochid; on the larger picture, yes, I agree with you because-if you read the shmiras shabbos carefully-initiating an electic current is a “maase nolad” – akin to striking a match. although I am not sure whether that makes it a melocho d’oraisa on yom tov. He allows to use an electric stove but not to alter the current. However, this can be only be right if there is more than one coil-as cherrybim said- because if there is only one coil and you change the temperature by increasing the wattage ,why should it be “ossur”?

The question of electric currents was settled about a hundred years ago and ,regardless whether the science was correctly identified, “puk mo amo diber”. My only contribution was to say that ,on yom tov, the matter of electric currents is uniform-even if you believe it is boneh like the chazon ish. Of course, “mavir” and “mevashel ” are obviously allowed on yom tov. I quoted the tosefos to say that boneh,too, could be allowed on yom tov because of “mitoch”.

There may be questions on yom tov like, for example, a dimmer. Why should it be ossur to increase the strength of the light on yom tov? The electric current is already present, you are only increasing the wattage? I never heard a good answer on this. Maybe you can enlighten me. Decreasing the light is more complicated as it involves “kibui” and this is a discussion for another day.

DaasYochid: You re right in pointing out that the Rambam holds that building would be a d’oraisa-unlike the tosofes. However, this may be because- as I see it- the Rambam dos NOT hold “mitoch” on any other melocho, except “hotzaah and havoro”. see mishne 4. Actually, the more I read about this, the more interesting the subject becomes. By the ay, I never said that one can actually build house on yom tov- see tosefos. However, it may have applications as far as electric currents.

DaasYochid: It has noting to do with me. Tosafos on daf ninety five says it could be muttor on yom tov,except that this would be uvde dechol.

DaasYochid: I did some quick research on this matter and these are teh following salient points: the gemoro (shabbos 95A) says that it is a “melocho” to make cheese on shabbos (“chayiv”) because it is building something- and “boneh’ is a melocho. Tosefos deducts from this that “boneh” would NOT be a melocho that is prohibited on yomtov- because making cheese would be allowed on yom tov and hence so will this “melocho”. Tosefos prohibits,however, building a house because of “uvdo dechol”. Still ,it is clear taht making cheese on yom tov would be muttar!

The Rambam “paskens’ like this gemoro and says making cheese is a ‘melocho d’oraisa”. Interestingly ,neither the Rif, nor the Tur ,nor the Shulchan Aruch mentions this rambam and his psak. Why? Well, courtesy of Artscroll notes, it is pointed out that many Poskim hold that “boneh” is only a melocho when doing it on the ground (like a house), not on keilim and here with cheese it would be like making a kli-hence not a d’oraisa. In short, these are the rishonim on this matter.

Now, on to electricity. I checked the “SHmiras shabbos’. First of all, he clearly allows cooking on an electric burner (sima 3). However, he maintains, following the bulk of acharonim, that making an electric connection is ossur on yom tov- mainly because it is “Nolad’-starting from nothing (same as striking a match). Therefore, he also maintains that it owuld be ossur to increase or decrease an electric burner because , he says, this act either extinguishes or increases THE AMOUN OF ELECTRIC COILS.

I understand his reasoning , although I may say, that the burners I know DO NOT ADD OR EXTINGUISH individual burners- they only increase, or decrease, the ampage throught the same coils.

On to my comment about ‘boneh’ on yom tov. This was in reaction to a commenter who said that it was a mistake to say that electricty is muttar on yom tov. To which I replied that those who are mattir electricity on yom tov (and they were some pretty big Poskim)do not think it is a mistake- even if we accept the chazon ish that it is boneh! because- further to the tosefos (and the rambam), boneh would also be muttar on yom tov.

All of the above gives way to the issur on “Nolad’ on yom tov, which has nothing to do with the melocho.

DaasYochid: Can you cook on an electric stove on yom tov? if yes, then the tosafos clearly comes into play, If no, why?

DaasYochid: See tosfos shabbos 95, “Ve-hurode chalos”, and the maskonoh of tosfos on boneh in yom tov. And, if you don’t hold like the Chazon Ish on that, then the other alternatives-mavir and mevashel- are even easier to me mattir on yom tov. As far as “Tikun maneh”- what are you fixing?? (At least boneh means that you complete a circuit but there is no “maneh”here -utensil to fix).

Nisht- thst is a big question. What new fire are you creating? the electric circuit and its many components already exist. I do know that this matter of “nolad” has been used to prohibit the forming of an electric circuit but it is very problematic to consider this “nolad”.

And what do you do for “ochel nefesh’if you have an electric stove?

cherrybim: without getting involved in the actual halachic discussion on this newfangled item, I must point out that when you write “recognized Poskim mistakenly paskined using electric appliances on yom tov” is incorrect. Those Poskim still would maintain that electricity would be muttar to use on yom tov. No mistake on their part. However, the “olam’ has accepted differently. Puk mo amo diber. But it does not make the more lenient psak “a mistake”.

I decided long ago not to respond to “joseph”s rantings on zionism and eretz Yisroel. However, for once, let me point out his sophistry and twisted logic. He accuses the state for all the dead Jews in the last sixty years, maintaining that, if there would not be a medinah, the jews would live there peacefully, as it was in previous centuries (dubious but let us accept that). Does anyone with a smidgen of “sechel’ even believe that this would be the case today? When the X-ians in Lebanon were killed and exlied in droves decades ago , when the X-ians of Iraq are being murdered today wholesale and driven out of their ancestral home, when even within the Arab nations, they murder each other mercilessly, when all around Israel, hundreds of thousands of human beings are being slaughtered on both sides, do you, for one moment, believe that the jews in a so-called palestine would be spared? Maybe, just maybe, HKBH allowed the medinah to be formed because He knew what would happen in future years- like today- and that the jews of eretz Yisroel needed to be independent to defend themselves. That scenario is a lot more plausible than the fantasmagoric assertion that all is from the sitra achara.

Nisht: Hah! Of course, I included those because they clearly are the signs that we accept chumros all the time. I am not talking about actual bugs,of course. The problem of drinking water in Brooklyn has been debunked and strawberries- well, I have had this argument on another thread.

DaasYochid; hilchos taaruvos-HUH? The reasosn given for the minhag of kitnyos is pretty clear from the early rishonim, primarily ashkenazi rishonim. Why add to it? I understand that one has to make sure that ,whatever the product, it contains no chometz (hence, a hechsher for quinoa) but why add things to a gezeirah on our own? About the only item that predates the minhag is rice. As mentioned, I do not at kitnyos because I am respectful of minhagim -this is why I don’t eat “gebrocks”,although it is a minute “cheshash”. All the newfangled “chumros” show how far we have come in our prediliction for chumros.

DaasYochid: I am saddened to see your recent comments (if it is you!) because it puts you in unpleasant company.

I just noticed that my name is being used by mistake. I must be a Purim joke by the authorities. Not one of the many comments b ROB are from me.

147- if there are daughters, you have two choices: grandchildren or -if you follow many acharonim- the daughters themselves can say kaddish.

Lior: your point about pointing out a potential “aveirah” is valid and, indeed, if given with humor and humility , it is a commendable way. I only noted that it is not an overarching principle that one has to point out an ‘aveirah”.

Lor: the fact that this is d’oraisa is not relevant here. The Remo clearly writes that “mutov shejehi shoggegim” is applicable even to d’oraisas, except when it is explicitly written in the Torah. Example: making fire is written explicitly in the Torah and therefore one must point it out. Any other melocho is not written explicitly and we do say “muttov shejeh shoggegim”

LIor: actually it is more complciated because we say “mutov shejehei shoggegim mishejehei meizidim’ and if someone does not know the halocho , it is better not to tell him/her so as not to make him a “meizid” (only exception if it is explicitly written in the Torah)

DaasYochid: applying toohpaste with a brush is the normal way of doing,hence it is “kedarko”. and, indeed, as apashatuyid testified, his Rov allowed toothpaste to be rubbed on with the fingers- although I don’t know his reason, “kelachar jad’ is as good as any other.

Equally, lipstick is applied with a stick and, as far as I know, only in such a way-hence ,it is “kedarko” Balms and creams are applied more often with the fingers (vaseline,for example) and hence, with a “kli’ would be “kelachar jad”.

May I also point out thast R”Moshe’s shittah about toothpaste is not universally accepted. I don’t know about lipstick.

oomis-thank you.

nisht”: rather thn hurling personal insults- please stick to the actual subject. Why isn’t my explanation correct??? using a stick is certainly “kelachar jad” ij my nook. please tell me why it is not so.

mw13: no one is equating anyone to -G-d forbid- the Taliban in their savagery ! However, this attitude of new and illogical new ways is spreading like widlfire- whether like this instance, of erasing a woman from photos, or going overboard with checking fruits ,or learning for everyone all the time -all of this is a symptom of total ignorance of reality and real life. In that, this approach is much too close to Wahabism or Talibanism than I care for.There is a real world out there and that includes half the population known as women and that exists on a honest day’s work.

DaasYochid: I re-read your first comment and,indeed, you seem to diassociate yourself from this approach. Nonetheless,myextrapolation (kal vechomer)still stands for those who make up this policy for their newspapers.