rabbiofberlin

Think bIG, Thanks for the very wonderful vort. there is a tremedous amount of truth in that vort!

before I close this machine for shabbos, a quasi-final answer to Jospeh and Think BIg. Interesting that Think BIB is at variance to Joseph concerning Pharaoh and hitel JEMACH SHEMO. Indeed, if you deny that Hitler,jemahc shemo,, in an inscrutable way,was part of Hakodush boruch huh’s plan, then, chas vesholom, you deny Hakodehs Boruch huh’s all powerful and allknowing ways. I know, I know,there is controversy as to WHY it happened, but one must admit that it came from Hakodesh boruch huh.I am going to avoid the discussion as to the whys and wherefores and why was it “Oilam hanistar”, etc. The simple fact is that everything has its origin min hashomayim.

Think Big, as I said earlier, we are a lot closer than you may think. We did have bechira and there may very well have been mistakes on all sides and who knows what would have happened would we have chosen differently.I squarely look at today and today, we do have a medinah, as imperfect as it is and our duty and obligation is to make it the best place for Jews in the world. I generally eschew debate about the past because ,in the final analysis, we cannot do anything about it except learn from it. That goes for evacuating Jewish settlements to the utter lack of Jewish education in the mamlachti schools (on that I fully agree with you) to a host of other issues.

Well, I look forward to meet Joseph in jerushulaim next Wednesday. We migh both carry Melech hamoshiach on our shoulders.

think big, thank you for your reply.

Joseph,I will IY’H try to find the trascript of the trial. All I will say is that I know of “living proof”‘ that Kastner saved Jews. For now, this is enough for me not to demonize him. Indeed, if in the trial notes, I find that he protected nazis for his benefit, I will grant you that he is far from being the hero claimed by some.It still does not mean that he sold out Hungarian jewry, as many intimate,

Think Big, we shall have to agree to disagree, ESPECIALLY on your remark that the crux of the issue is not history or current events. I think this is where we part company. I deeply believe that we should look at history and what has happened to us us over the centuries, “bein letovah, bein lehefech”. History teaches us what to thinkl because this is the way hakodesh Boruch huh gives us a guide finder.

Allow me to give you an example. In the late seventeenth century, there was no more biiter fight than between the “misnagdim”,(talmidei hagro and the “chassidim”(talmidei ha besht). the chassidim were vilified everywhere, put in cherem…etc..

Any neutral observer would not have been able to decide who was right. As a matter of fact. there was probably much more right on the “misnagdim” side.Hence, you could have said then that the chassidim were against Torah,etc.and would disappear…How could one decide the truth?

Well ,history told us the truth, because the chassidim multiplied and prospered. I, for, one recognize Jad hashem in that, regardless of what is imputed to the chassidim.

I look at Zionism in the same way. Whatever you want to say about the early days of Zionism, the fact is that it was the instrument of Hakodesh boruch huh to bring us back to our homeland and prosper there again. You cannot make theoretical imputations, “what if…” (as Joseph says about Arab rule). This is a fallacious argument because we don’t KNOW what would have happened.You can only deal with facts and the present. If you continue to deny that Zionism was the instrument of Hakodesh boruch huh, then ,chas vesholom, I think you deny the guiding Hand of Hakodesh boruch hu. This is the way I look at it and, incidentally, plenty of Gedolim from all sides feel the sameway.

Anyway, I will not persuade you and I will continue to believe what I believe.

Where we truly can join hands in in seeing that Eretz hakodesh becomes just that, eretz HAKODESH. In that respect, I tip my (black) hat to all of those who live in Erretz Ysroel and continue to fight for an Israel imbued withb Torah and yiddishkeit. That includes virtually all religious jews.

Well, have a guten shabbos and let us welcome Moshiach Sunday afternoon….

Think big, I appreciate your replies. before I address yours, allow me to write a quick posting to joseph and wil lhill. I did write it earlier today but it seems not to have been posted.

I have to tell you both , in reference to Kastner, that I knew many yidden who absolutely did not agree with YOUR characterization of him as a collaborator….etc.

My own father, zichroinoi livrocho, knew him well in the war and clearly thought that his actions were lishmo. Additonally, here in Monsey, I personally know TODAY a grandson of one of the Poskei hador who , together with his brothers, was saved by Kastner and was on the train. So, it was not only his family but also many,many other people who were saved that day. I don’t want to dwell upon this matter too much because you will continue thinking yours and I will continue saying that no one knows the whole truth.

Concerning his postwar testimonies, I will try to find an exact description of this testimony in Nurnberg. If the transcripts of the Supremne Court have it, this will also suffice. I am saying this because Will hill’s question about postwar testimony is indeed a valid accusation and has more weight than questioning the very nebulous events of the war.

As far as think big’s questions. I will do “punk kapoir” and answer al acharon first.

As far as I know- and I grew up in an agudah environment- none of the Gedolim of the past dor -except the Satmarer Rov zz’l” thought that the medinah was “treif”. You surely know that Reb Itshe meir Levin z’l , the brother-in’law of the gerer rebbe zz’l signed the Declaration of Independence. You also know that the Ponevitzer Rav zz’l put up the Israeli flag on Yom ha-atazmaut. The kloisenburger Rebbe zz’l made alyah to Eretz yisroel to found kiryat Sanz because he wanted a better environment for his chassidim. The same goes for Vishnitz, Belz and others.None of them ever said that the medinah is treif. Their original argument was with secular Zionism which clearly had an idea of a Torah-less medinah, chas vesholom. On this, they united to fight it. Once the medinah was established, no one that I know ever claimed that it should be dismantled ,chas vesholom. Even today, the chareidim have problems with many of the things happening in Eretz Yisroel ( as i do,btw) but they sit in the Knesset or run towns like Bnai brak and Jerushulaim to try to better it.

I don’t know of a bigger proof that they tacitly agree to the medinah and would be aghast if anyone would call it treif. I am not going to address your contention that the founding of Israel was against halacha,due to the constrictions of space. Only the Satmarer rebbe felt that way and I can show you plenty of rebuttals to the question of sholosh shevuos.

IF the medinah would indeed be “treif’ then not one Godol or rebbe could participate in its leadership. Yet- the opposite is true. Quod est demonstrantum, the proof lies in the eating of pudding, you can only believe your own eyes..etc..meaning that the facts show otherwise. Once the medinah was established, the question of sholosh shebuos, of secular zionism ,all became moot. What was ,and is ,important is to build a land where ultimately “umoloh hooertz deah”.

As far as your other questions. I suspect that we will agree to disagree on the question whether it is ‘milchams hashem’ or not. I squarely believe that it is (check the Rambam on this)and because of this, I think that everyone should participate in the defense of Eretz Ysroel. As you might know, there is now a nachal charedi and I say to them, jasher kokachem. (This was tried by the Vishnizer rebbe zz’l fifty years ago but he was cowed by the roshey yeshiva in abandoning the plan. Check your history).

As far as kollelim go, as you know, under your influence , I have decided to be careful with my words, so all I will say is that kollel should be for the best and leave it at that.

Lastly, you and I look at the arab/jewish question from different perspectives. I don’t know if conditions were that much worse in Eretz yisroel than russia,etc. but whatever the facts, it was inevitable that Eretz ysroel would become independent from the ottoman empire, just like Syria, Iraq, Jordan, etc…If you espouse the view that without Zionism, there would now be a paradise-or at least a benign- regime in Eretz yisroel where Jews would prosper, then I beg to differ greatly. Look at saudia Arabia, where no Jews can live and it has nothing to do with Israel. Look at Syria, where the jews were oppressed from way before Zionism, and also others,including Yemen by the way.

MY point is that Hakodesh boruch huh sees the future and He made sure that we could live in our homeland under our own rule, because without us being ‘baalei batim” there we might not have a yishuv there at all. You may disagree with that but history is the only true emess, and it is so because it is guided by the Eibershter.

Pashute yid, you brought a big smile to my lips and real tears to my eyes. What a wonderful story! Shlomo zz’l was the real oihev yisroel par excellence. We miss his music, we miss his energy and we miss his Ahavas Yisroel. Yes, I know, soon this column will be populated by his detractors, but, before you write a line , look closely in the mirror and ask yourself if you ever brought back a yiddishe neshomo to its roots. And if you said yes to one or even ten such neshomos, remember that Shlomo z”l brought thousands of neshomos back to their roots. I cna be “mayid” personally to dozens of such people who today are part of oru Klal yisroel and are makpid on every mitzvah. Shlomo z’l still sings for us and his music is eternal.

OY, Hakodesh Boruch hu is great! All of a sudden,Joseph and I are best friends ! well,not quite but if you know of a wonderful mishpacha and a wonderful girl ,with jechoilos, let me know! In all seriousness, this particular boy that think big mentioned is an outstansding masmid and a baal chessed. When I asked him, why does he want to learn, he said: because he sees hatzlacha in his learning and hence, he wants to continue. Who am I to deny him this right?

well, in this week of tisha be-av, maybe the geulah is indeed closer if we can all come closer!

ujm, in brief, I am not from the TIDE school of thought ( I have no idea what TIDE means)and neither am I a member, old or new, of Kehillat Jeshurun. My own view on things is rather eclectic,chassidisch yet pro-zionist, yeshivish yet opposed to universal kollel, deeply understanding of mesoirah yet an ardent lover of Shlomo Carlebach…you see the picture…I did have a pulpit in Berlin some years ago. Hope this satisfies your curiosity.

Think Big, you make me blush, but thank you. My sons are truly metzuyonim and, regardless of my views, I am absolutely their proudest father.(My oldest is in Mir for six years now and, if G-d wills it, a future moreh beyisroel-but don’t tell him that!)

Incidentally, they both wear “gartlech” in honor of my father who gave it to them.My father, alov hashalom, was a big chossid and gave them these gartlech.

think big- As you said earlier, I feel very chassidisch, even if I don’t necessarily wear the begodim. All I can say is that, virtually always, I have found tremendous kavannah and indeed kedusha at mitzvah tenz. That, even when the one who danced BEFORE (not with) the kallah were family members. Somehow, it encapsulates the simcha and the reason for the wedding- to built a bays neeman. On a personal level, I have better kavonos during the mitzvah tenz than when the choosn kallah sit together and people dance before them-although this is the way of the gemoro. Whatever the reason, it always seems to me that during the mitzva tenz, the jetzer horah takes a break.

One quick note- why can’t you have no hefsek between chuppah and yichud? Unless, it is to be joitseh the rishonim that hold that the yichud is koneh. othwerwise, I don’t grasp the hefsek bit.

to think BIG…no need for mechillah, and if you want it, mochul lecho, mochul lecho,mochul lechu. This is an anonymous website and it is a fluke that you realized who I am. Nothing wrong in that, as I am pretty open about my shittos on Eretz ysroel, (less)chumros, emunas chachomim in modern times, so no need for hiding. Actually, I truly must thank YOU for bringing up the matter of name-calling. As I said in an earlier post, I truly am beating myself up for the term “sonei yisroel”. THis is and will always be an impardonable offense. EVERY good Yid is an oihev yisroel. Satmar – to whose philosophy I do not suscribe- has the most wonderful bikur cholim in the world. I have heard from many non-frum people how this has impressed them and helped them. Chabad- whom I like but is under attack by others- does unbelievable things throughout the world. The hesder yeshivos in Eretz Yisroel – regardless whether you suscirbe to zionism or not – have been at the forefront of defending Klal Yisroel with their bodies and sometimes- sadly- with their lifes.

So, I accept everyone, from so-called far-right to moderate left. The only people I will reject are the ones who are “noisen jad’ to our enemies, whether from the right (thank G-d, few) to the left, people who will bend over to accomodate our enemies. Everyone else, I welcome with open arms.Incidentally, that approach I have learned from such disparate people as my chassidische rebbe, who welcomes everyone to our shul, to the great R’Shlomo Carlebach, who was the oihev ysroel par excellence, if sometimes to excess, to the legendary Rav Grossman of Migdal Haemek, a true zaddik in our time. And, ultimately, this is our dor’s duty- to open our hearts to all. The great baal teshuvah movement in recent times is fully based on that concept and, boruch hashem, I think we are winning.

Earlier in my postings, I refused to address “joseph” because he called the medinah a nmae that only our enemies call it. Well, I’ll have to bend my rules a bit, otherwise it might be construed as ‘shetikah kehodoah” if I don’t answer his postings.Reb yid,your first paragraph (mass murder by the zionists during the holocaust)is so intemperate that I am tempted to revert to my earlier promise, but I’ll wait a bit.Your total obsession with the “genocidal zionists” (my characterization of your words)and poor Kastner borders on the pathological. Friend, get yourself to a doctor. No one has the full truth in that and most of what you read is an attempt at “whitewashing” one’s own shortcomings in the war. There was enough blame to go around for everyone, and sadly that includes our own Rabbonim, the leaders of American Jewry (mainly reform), FDR, even some of those “evil zionists”.No one came out of this catastrophic era in our history blameless. Some individuals did better than others (Rav Kalmanowicz comes to mind)and there were some real heroes , like the Japanese consul in Vilna (I think) who gave out thousands of visas, Wallenberg, of course, and many many individuals, both Yidden and gentiles, who saved some “seridim” form the all-consuming fire.The true “genocidal murderers” were the Nazis jemach shemom and the blame lies 99% with them. NO, one hundred percent, because they were the brutal criminals who murdered six million of our brothers and sisters and caused the world to go up in flames.So, dear friend, spare us your obsessive comments about the evil zionists and kastner. They serve no purpose except making you feel good. It will not change history one bit and only our G-d in heaven knows the truth.The other “cause’ you have espoused is that the “medinah” is illegitimate, “treif” and that everyone agrees with you.Sorry to say, but very few people agree with you. By the way, you say that satmar agrees with the ‘settling” of Eretz Ysroel. Check “Vajoel Moshe”, the Satmarer Rov zz’l did not agree with this statement but I digress.

To say that the Zaddikim of previous doros, or today, did not desire taking control from the Ottomans, the British (your words)flies in the face of reality. What do you think all the rebbes and roshei yeshiva today are doing? They vote, they participate in governmemnt, they pay and take taxes, they build in Judea and Samaria…Do you sincerely believe FOR ONE SOLITARY MOMENT that they wish they would be better off under Ottoman (arab) rule? Or even Britsh rule? What do you think the zaddik of jerushulaim, R’aryeh levin zz’l, was doing visiting the prisoners? agreeing to british rule??

One must be blind,,deaf and illiterate to think that all the leaders of Orthodox Jewry in Israel think we would be better off under a different rule.This is a fantasy and all you have to do is to be in Geulah for one Friday afternoon to see that the chareidim thrive under that so-called zionist rule as never before.

It is not a perfect world anywhere and there is still a lot to do in Eretz ysroel but to deny that ,boruch hashem, we are thriving in our own homeland as never before is to be totally blind to reality. And yes, if this is what you think, there is nothing I or the facts on the ground can do to open your eyes.

As far as the Gedolim of past years and their opinions. It all started with wanting to go back to eretz yisroel and indeed this was the catalyst. You cannot bring any “rayos” from the nineteenth century about independence because the big empires of the day were still in existence. If you know a bit of history , you will know that it took over 150 years for the many nations of the world to become independent. The British,Austrian, Russian, French, Ottoman empires (and other colonial states) lasted well into the twentieth century. Clearly, in due time, Eretz Ysroel would have become independent. The question was, would it be OURS or ,chas vesholom, under arab rule?

I think that Hakodesh boruch huh guided us in the right direction.

I kind of perused this site and I must say that I have absolutely no idea what jent 1150 writes. A lot of it is funny but I still do not know what he is writing! I think we’ll need rashi and toisefos!

However, I bow before his bekius, as he is the only one who was able to quote the Remo (Tof reish ches-608)who clearly writes that ONLY in something that is MEFUROSH in the torah -spelled out- are you obliged to be “mochiach”. On other mitzvos d’oraisa, you do NOT have to be mochiach! Even then ,only if you know that they will accept it, otherwise, it is “mutov shejehe shoggegim”.

An example, if you see someone light a fire on shabbos, this is mefurosh, However, other melochos would not come under this as they are not spelled out in the Torah. Please, all of you check out the remo.

Well, Think Big, you wrote two long answers to my posting. Thank you for your compliments but I must tell you that ,great, I am absolutely not. I do, however, feel, that civility in a debate is a must. The greatest zaddikim were always civil to everyone. R’Moshe Feinstein zz’l (to choose a litvishe godol) NEVER said a bad word about anyone. Check his teshuvos. Even when he excoriates other so-called “movements”, he couches it in moderate terms. My own rebbe,zol gezund zein, never says a bad word about people who do not go in the same ‘derech”. For example, I suspect he is not exactly a Zionist,as I may be(see other discussions),but I have never heard him say anything negative ,in a political sense, about the tzionim. So, let us heed the mmamar”divrei chachomim benachas nishmoim”.

As far as the comments you mentioned, if you “heard’ these words from me , then I know the occasion when it happened. I truly am pained about the words ‘sonei yisroel”. That one gives me palpitations because it was a throw-away line and I should never,never have used it. Al zeh, ani bochioh. The other term (elitist) we can argue about, but I will not use it again.

Concerning stories of all kind and the chassidische maasses,you are absolutley correct in saying that any story CAN happen,including the story of the coma.You may be familiar with the saying that anyone who believes that all the rebbeshe maasses actually happened is a “tipesh”. BUT anyone who says that they CANNOT happen, is an “apikorus”. In other words, the potential of a nes is always there, but it does not mean that it happens all the time. Hence, I do believe that Rav Kanievsky shelita said what he said about the non-decomposed state of the body, because that you can easily check if true or not. However, the story about the long coma has to be verified before accepting it. If it is verified, absolutely, I will believe it.

By the way, I can attest that I actually know of a coma of 35 years in my own community. On that, I can give chapter,name and verse. So, long comas can happen.

Well, I do have a day job to which I have to attend, so for now, I’ll have to postpone the discussion about emunas chachomim for another time.

Incidentally, if you live in Lakewood ( I think), then we are familiar with each other. A kleine velt.

well, will hill, we will have to agree to disagree. I think that Eretz Yisroel today is a manifestation of the hashgacha perotis and you think it is evil. The lines are drawn pretty starkly. As the years go by and Eretz Yisroel , IY’H, grows stronger and better, we shall see who has the correct opinion on this.

to bogen, as we don’t have a sanhedrin, there is no compulsion in counting the various views. You are fully entitled to your opinion and me to mine.The future, and actually the present,will prove one of us wrong. Right now, I am putting a small wager on Eretz yisroel being a manifestation of the Eibershter’s will.

I must add a few lines to me posting about nissim geluim….In the bais hamikdosh, there were also nissim geluim (see chanukkah) but again, these are few and very far in bewteen. In the general sense, we live now in the “oilam hanistor”, until the geulah shleimah, and till then, the ways of the world are guided in a hidden manner.

well, count me squarely on the side of Pashute Yid and his very reasoned comments. I have littel to add to these true sentiments. to will hill, these zaddikim may not be “tzyionim’ in howc you understand zionism, but they were fully zionists in my eyes. The Vishnitzer rebbe zz’l went to the ballot box to vote with shirah, the Ponevitzer Rva zz’l put up the Israeli flag up on Yom ha-atazmaut, R.Chaim Shmuelewitz zz’l called ALL those who died in the YOm Kippur war “kedoshim” and the gerrer rebbe zz’l, the “imrei emess” encouraged his chassidim to move to then-Palesine and so saved gerrer chassidus from oblivion. To me, they were all zionists because they saw the kedusha in Eretz ysorel and lived there, built it and saw the good in all Jews.

Chuck Schwab’s comments are so ridiculous that they do not even merit a reply. The “good” Arabs indeed! He must be smoking that illegal, hallucinating stuff.

well, as this is the week of tisha be-av (almost,as according to the sefardim ,there is no shevua shechal bo this year), I shall be very measured and reasonable in my comments.

to nameless, “bemechilas kevod toroshcho” ( i assume you are a male-apologies if this is a mistake- then it would be “toroseich”), I did not ask for an apology from you (on a different posting)because I “blatantly” called a story about a coma for seventy years a fairy tale. BTW, what does Rav Kaniesky have to do wit this ? As far as I reckon, there is no indication that he confirmed this story ,only that this woman’s non-decomposed state was due to the zechus of “no jealousy”, and on this I said, if there are witnesses that this is indeed the case, then indeed it is the case.

I called for an apology because you called me a “koifer”, without reason, without any basis and without understanding what that means in terms of motzi shem ra.

If you think that it is common practice to go around calling people “kofrim” without any reason, then,sadly, you are part of the biryonim of yore and the ultras of today who want to silence any debate by calling names.That is not how our Sages throughout the centuries have acted. See the letters of the “Imrei Emess” , the Gerrer Rebbe zz’l, gave Rav Kook zz’l all the kovod he deserved. I think it is advisable to refraim from callong anyone names and sticking to the debate at hand.

To Think Big,

I absolutely believe in “jeshuos” by rebbes and, may I add, by other righteous men like Roshei yeshiva. There are many. many stories, OF TODAY, that people were helped. This does not mean that miracles occur on a daily basis, certainly not “nissim geluim”. BUT, if someone gets cured from an illness or has a financial success afteer he asks for it from a rebbe, then I ,personally , believe that the tefillos have helped.

And, yes, I also believe in Eretz Yisreol being a “nes benistar”. SO, I may have a split personality but I recognize what der eibershter shows me and here, he has shown that jeshuos help and that Eretz Yisroel is a berocho to all Klal Yisroel.

think big, well thank you for the clarification that “recognized’ means actual physical recognition.

My point about the mishne was that jews have an inherent zechus to be Jewish, regardless of how they behave in life. This, obviously, makes every jew special, even if he is totally separated from Klal Yisroel. I guess that I am allergic to a sentence that says : “Jews by birth, who were raised without, behave just like goyim”. Maybe. But I sure would not say anything negative about any jew. This is ultimately the essence of “ahavas yisroel”, to love every single Jew, regardless of where he is spiritually or what he does in life. Ultimately,we are all responsible for vour Jewish brothers and sisters.

Concerning your remark about wisdom and its roots. If you believe that the Torah is the source of all wisdom , then all wisdom will emanate from it, wherever it lands. So Einstein and Freud indeed do receive their wisdom from the Torah. And maybe, just maybe, they being born Jewish gives them an extra edge. How else would you explain the absolute abundance of Jewish Nobel Prizes , especially in the sciences. Maybe it is the fact that they were born jewish and in their neshomo, they are Jewish?

well, I am kind of coming into this late, as I was not able to read most of these postings this past week but allow another member of the “pro’freikeit” brigade to add a few words to this argument. Pashute Yid gave such a wonderful original posting and another extraordinary rebuttal that I have little to add. History , fashioned by the Being who leads us all, the Bashefer, will prove which side isa right. For now, the ones who are on the side of those “terrible Tzionim” is winning hands down. As mentioned, we are back in our “Eretz Hakodesh”, being able to do mitzvos in a real, true Yiddish atmosphere. At least 25% of the Klal is fully observant and probably another 50% traditional. Not bad for a place that the extremists consider a place of “macharivei Torah”. I will not comment on the last posting, in reference to Kastner. Sheker has many legs and runs fast but ,ultimately, the Emess will come out.However, I do want to address “Hakatan”‘s mention of the sayings of some Zionists. btw,how about giving us some real sources for these quotations, rather than some imaginary anonymous quote?. I can remember some very offensive quotes by some people that you consider “gedolim”. Who said that Chabad is not part of Klal Yisroel and you cannot be “meshadech’ with them? (No prize for the name of this Gadol)

Who called good Jews kofrim because their “sin” was to believe that it was time to go back to our own homeland? (Again , no prize for his name).

Whose opposition to the medinah has brought some of his supporters to join hands with the most evil and dangerous sonei yisroel? (no prize there either)

If words and phrases would be so insulting, we can find plenty of terrible words on the extremist side too. Forget the words, look at the facts, and reality, being a sign from the Almighty, for now, is on our side , the Tzioni side.

joe schmo….simple. The Sefardim,led by the Mechaber never recognized the “three week period”. It is the Remo who introduced it as our custom and only we, the Ashkenazim are bound by it. Only the days from “shavua shechal bo’ (the week of Tisha be-av) and, in some instances, from Rosh Chodesh Av, is it “dine degemoro”. Hence, there are many kulos concerning shaving. Also, the “issur” of not shaving in the three weeks cannot be more “chomur’ (severe) that chol hamoed , which is really “dine degemoro”. You will find many kulos concerning shaving on chol hamoed. Lastly, “the three weeks” is akin to the sefirah and, again, there are many heterim for shaving during sefira.By the way, most of the kulos for shaving do not appy to having a haircut because you can easily pospone cutting your hair for a few weeks but not remaining unshaven (as zachw wrote) If you require chapter and verse, I’ll be happy to comply with the actual sources.

Yoshi’s comments are wonderful and “to the point”. Interesting, isn’t it, that virtually no one has commented on his words-positively or whatever. I wonder whether all those zealots, whose names I shall not mention and whose postings are everywhere but here , understand what yiddishkeit is all about? And, Pashute Yid, by quoting Shlomele zz’l , you have just written yourself out of the PC “yeshivish” crowd….Join the club and don’t worry, Shlomele zz’l is busy singing with Dovid Hamelech right now!

Amidst all the comments on this matter, funny and otherwise, the most distressing one are what “ujm” ,and people of his thinking, wrote. To call hundreds of thousands of Yidden “Sonei Yisroel” and “anti-semites” is not only a deep insult and first class rechilus but illuminates the reason why so many Orthodox Jews are disgusted and fed up with the ultra-chareidi view of Yiddishkeit, namely that there is no other Yiddishkeit in the world save the ultra- narrow, insular, elitist Lithuanian yeshivish world. This is not the view of the Chassidim or Chabad or the baal teshuva movement. It is the view of a very small, arrogant band of Jews and has infected us all and has direct consequences in all matters of halacha. (see the fight about giyur).

I havwe never seen any of the “other” Yidden call the yeshivish world “anti-semite” or “sonei Yisroel”, because we all feel that every Jew is a good jew. If you learned Perek yesterday, you will have learned the first mishna in “Chelek” and know what our chachomim thought about every Yid.