rabbiofberlin

Thsnks for all the posters..incidentally, i am pleased that the comments have to do with “halacha’ and custom matters…not some inane other subject…

feif un-I only drink cholov yisroel because i live in a place where it is easy to get cholov yisroel. If I would be living in montana (for ex) i would rely on R”moshe’s hetter. However, the matter of cholov yisroel is discussed very thoroughly in halacha amongst the early “baalei halacha”. The matter of RECORDED music is not.

Actually, even the fact of not having LIVE music is an ADDITION to the minhagim of sefirah. If you look in the shulchan aruch, all you find is a prohibiton to marry and cut one’s hair (it is not even clear if cutting one’s beard- i.e. shaving, is included). Everything else is an addition. Some would say that the prohibiton of live music is applicable all year round, hence there is no need to make a special issue on sefira.We have, by and large, ignored that prohibition (of live music all year round)but the late poskim have included this in sefira days.

My point is that it is a “klal” that you rule like the “meikel” in aveilus (check with your rabbi)and so, it seems that the early rulings on any matter of aveilus espoused the lenient view. I don’t see why we should no use the same approach in sefira days.

You will note (see some of the posters) that various yeshivos (and poskim,I may add) are lenient as far as shaving on certain days in the sefira- no doubt this is because of the same reasoning- you do not increase the aveilus aspect.

And, incidentally, who said that R’Moshe did not alllow any music in sefira? i have it, on good authority, that he did allow recorded music of chazanut for radio stations.

feif un, what are “sefira tapes” ???

in any case, i mentioend earlier R”yitzchok Hutner zz”l allowed non- live music during sefira and i know of R’Moshe zz’l psak that jewish music stations can play chazanut during sefira. I have no clue why a digitally enhanced tape should be ossur….so, you can be a machmir and go further and further into chumros (can you sing zemiros? can you sing at all?)…I prefer to take the logical way- there is absolutely no mention in shulchan aruch of an outright ban on music and i don’t see why we should add- be moisiff- chumro upon chumro in a time that isn’t even a time of real aveilus and never mentiond in the gemoro.

Sorry, guys, chumros in sefira don’t cut it for me. And remember- in hilchos aveilus- holchim achar hameikil!!! we “pasken’ like the one who is lenient.

reenmasheen….If you go according to words, it probably is shabbos but i also remember hearing the same as you about berochos. incidentally, the dafim in baba basra correspond to the pesukkim in kapittel 119 in tehillim.(8×22) although, in truth ,the daffim in any gemoro are artificial as it only became ‘dafim’ after the priting presses were invented.

a few words to jax,tzippi and yros and moishi1….jax, you may not agree with my views but you have to justify your strict prohibition on any music during sefira with some real surces…please provide them 1

to tzippi- If my memory serves me right, Yeshiva R’Chaim Berlin talmidim heard that opinion from the Rosh yeshiva ,Rav Hutner zz’l. It dovetails with the shulchan aruch and the mishne berura who, clearly, only prohibits live music.

to yors and moishi1, the question of shaving- in contrast to cutting hair- during sefira is complex. Cutting hair is clearly prohibited and there are no hetterim for that. For shaving, it is more complex because-unlike cutting hair- you do it every day and one looks terrbile of not shaven after a few days. Hence, there are various hetterim for shaving erev shabbos or at certain simchas. I’ll be happy to point to the sources.

thanks, areiveim-but i have been rather busy…only a glance or two to the coffee room in recent weeks…I thnk that david s. is right in the number of perokkim and i was pretty sure it was keilim because it took me an eternity to learn it…

I enjoyed the “big one”‘s “teshuvoh”. I do not have all the Igros Moshe handy so i cannot check the actual words used. However, I was always toaught that the hetter of milk that was not supervised by a jew originated much earlier than R”Moshe zz’L. It was the “Pri chodosh” ( not exactly a nobody)who was the first to use the hetter of the non- jew being afraid of getting caught by the authorities (“mirtses”)as the basis of allowing milk that is supervised by the authorities. If i have the time over shabbos IYH. I’ll try to find the original Prichodhs. I also remember a Chazon Ish who said the same thing.R” Moshe only popularized it here in the usa, but the hetter was around for two hundred years.

ujm—as i said, i will not discuss this matter anymore. Your feet are stuck in concrete.

ujm, mmmm…care to bring some reality in the debate? cantoresq may not be right in trying to censor debate but then you and all the others who espouse your view are fighting battles of the past….it is as you would fight today about “kemeyas” (the virulent machlokes beteen r’jonasan eibeshitz and his detractors). this is history and has absolutely no relevance today…I don’t believe that the ‘evil zionists’ were evil as you protray them and you have absoluteyl no hard proof either. But has it advanced yiddishkeit one iota?

this is why I prefer not to engage in arguments about the holocaust and about the medinah. It does not advance yiddishkeit one bit and only time will tell.

well, notpashut, you have just re-inforced what I said- you are doing a wonderful three monte crad trick.

But I say “naisai sefer venechze”. Let’s see what the FACTS say !!!! all the following numbers are from wikipedia- and , I imagine reliable,unless you want to make up other numbers, of course.

Firstly- in the first knesset there was a UNITED RELIGIOUS FRONT (so much for the evil religious zionists) 16 seats.

After this, for FIFTY YEARS the chareidim have had virtually unchanged numbers , five to six seats,with some rare exceptions.

You are disingenious in saying that the agudah had three in the beginning. Yes, true, but Poalei agudah, the OTHER chareidi party, also had three, for a total of six.

But the actual numbers voting sre more instructive. Here they are (rounded up), year by year, for all chareidi parties (agudah, degel hatorah and poalei agudah):

1951- 25,000, 1955- 40,000 1959 – 45,000 1961 – 57,000 1965- 61,000

1969 – 69,000 1973 – 60,000 1977 – 82,000 1981 – 72,000 1984 – 36,000

1988 – 136,000 1992 – 86,000 1996- 98,000 1999 – 125,000 2003- 135,000

A steady progression, for sure (except 1984- inexplicable to me,unless it is the emergence of shas) which, of course, reflects the increase in people B’H.

However, the PERCENTAGE of voters has barely changed since the beginning, regardless of the high birth rate or any other reasons.

so, when you say that the chareidim will be in the majoirty in 10-20 years, you are just spouting propaganda.

Shas is not a chareidi party, as it has many,many non-religious voters.

And- in response to your snide comments about the religious zionists, they have consistently garnered about nine=ten seats, whether as the old mafdal or a combination of the many different wings of the religious zionist camp.

so, dear notpashut, you can run around spreading a lot of propaganda but , in fact, your chareidi world has barely increased its representation in sixty years.

As far as all those quotations from “books”, I don’t take my rulings from “maaseh bichlech”

well, time to prove one’s point. I spent Shabbos and more looking for the famous “mekor” that jsopeh claims fro mthe Chassam Sofer. unless i am blind ,it sure is not in teshuvos Even Ho’ezer Chelek bais simon Yud alef (E’H 2; 11 ,as he writes) it is not even in chelek rishon teshuvo Yud alef. IF yo udoubt me that I looked it up. the teshuvo in chelek bais deals with a get in pest (hungary0 where a critical part was missing and the teshuva in chelek alef deals with a man who has a wife who r”l is mentally disabeld and what to do then. I read through most of these two teshuvos and nowhere did I see any reference to yiddish.

If you meant Shulchan Aruch Even Ho’ezer Siman bais, well there is no “hagohos chassam sofer’ on even ho’ezer.

so, pleasem joseph, can you tell us where that famous chassam is? (jothar, maybe you can find it)

por- a quick reply to your post. Rav Hutner’s words were about the Holocaust, not the medinah. He actually lived there the last years of his life.

As far as R’Elchonon goes, no one knows what he would have thought would he have remained alive, especially if he would have been able to go live in Eretz Yisroel and prosper there again. But, equally, you cannot bring an actula “rayoh’ from his words to the contrary. This is why I said that what he wrote is irrelevant to the actual facts of the medinah. There is no burden of proof on anyone. he said what he said way before the Holocaust and the founding of the medinah.

The fact that the Satmarer rebbe earned enormous respct is neither here nor there. Rav Kook and Rav Sonnenschein and the Gerrer rebbe were very respectful of each other. Neither agreed with the other’s hashkafa.

joseph – in another related posting (Eretz Yisroel) – I asked you to justify some of yoru assertions. When your quotes are actually correct- of course I acknowledge them- and do it gracefully -without being red-faced at all.Your quote of R’ Aharon was factual- at least according to the ones who wrote it down- although it does not mean I have to agree with it.

It is not sophistry to ask for real, written sources. It is just plain common sense. (and halachic to boot). If the Chassam Sofer you quote is the source of both quotations, I will readily acknowledge it, although I still fail to see what relevance it has about yiddish being a “holy” language. BTW, the Chassam Sofer spoke german on a everyday basis. Yiddish he called “jargon”

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when you accuse me of “insinuating something” about notpashut’s comments. Care to explain?

Lastly, your tone here in recent days has bordered on the hysterical and your comments have taken a very personal tone against anyone who dsputes your views. Is it because you are losing the argument on these postings?

to notpashut (and others too), I am not going to engage in a fruitless deabte about the medinah. Time wil ltell.

However, and this is addressed to all posters, you say “in the time of R ‘yaakov emden” and tell us a very good story. However, I see no source for this at all. In other words, mnay posters-including you- keep on writing stuff, “it is heard”, ” we konw’, etc…If you , and others, don’t show the actual source- it is meaningless. Hearsay and stories, if they are not authenticitated, mean little as no one knows its veracity.

joseph….same tired arguements and I will not enter into another long,fruitless dilaogue on this…

you write that the rambam writes that in the days of Ezra, there was a translator. mmmmmm….before the churban???? last time I looked, ezra lived in “Bovel” after the churban ( even if you attribute the novi malachi to him , it is still in “bovel’)

Clearly, in “bovel”, they spoke the local dialects (aramaic,persina and others)- as you can see from doniel.

You also quote the Chassam Sofer- ” in ancient times”. How ancient? middle ages? gemoro time? mishna time? second bayis?

No one denies that from “golus bovel” onwards, the jews started speaking aramaic and its many dialects for another thousand years. So what? does that make yiddish holy?Or hebrew a different language?

Your quote from the radak is neither here nor there. Of course, in his days hebrew was not a spoken language. But it is now. So what?

This is a sterile debate because the vast majority of Jews in Eretz Yisroel (including your beloved neturei karta) speaks hebrew on an everyday basis and will continue to do so. Yidish wil lbe used and it is a wonderful language but it does not make it holy.

notpashut, I am not going to regurgitate the opinions on this again….we have done that ad nauseum before…but it saddens me to see your comment about the medinah..

Not because these are your beliefs-you are entitled to them.. but because we have just seen what dangers all our brothers and sisters have been under in eretz yisroel and it was the army of that “treife medinah” , with many of its soldiers wrapped in talis utefilin, that went out to slay the mortal enemy and protect our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisroel. I thought that, at least now, you would refrain from this tired,discredited attack on our borthers and sisters in Eretz Hakodesh living, yes, in that ‘treife medinah”.

Nothing more discredited than monday morning quarterbacks and nothing more repulsive than opinions coming from people six thousand miles away, safely ensconced in the land that the gemoro calls : ‘ke-ilu oved avoidas chochovim”

gavra at work, as in another context (fifth vs third), you have corrected me and I thank you for the correction ! I did confuse the “maaseh pilegesh begivah’ with the massacre of the bnai efraim by gilead. (both were pretty gruesome massacres). Soon, I’ll be able to say- as with dovid hamelech= “rabbee’ to you!

I omly now was able to read the whole post on this matter. Whatever I think has been said by others but there are two items that have not been elucidated and I want to clarify this( I think gavra at work has been trying to show the way on this)

The story of “shiboleth’ or “ssiboleth’ is in Shoftim and is mentioned during the parshe of “pilegesh begivoh”,a woman who was abducted, raped and murdered by shevet binyomin. When the other shevotim waged war against the shevet and almost destroyed it, they barred the crossing of the jarden (mentioned earlier) and only allowed people to cross who could say “SH”, Apparently, shevet binyomim had a different pronunciation and could not say “sh” (just like litvaks) All those who could not say “sh” were killed. (this terrible story has a somewhat happy ending) This is the story of “shibboleth” and “ssiboleth”.

I am writing this down becaase a lot of silly comments have been written about “ivrit” and its sefardi pronunciation. You have to totally deaf, evil or stupid to pretend that “ivrit” is not descended from Loshon hakodesh. Clearly it is. Additionally, for over a thousand years, Hebrew – not aramaic- was the language of our ancestors. Do you think that the Nevi’im would have spoken and written in hebrew if no one spoke it? preposterous.

Only at the end of Bays rishon do we see aramaic seeping into our discourse (doniel, of course and some other parts),

From that time on- after the first churban- aramaic became the main spoken language of the jews for another thousand years. I say spoken because the mishnah was written in hebrew, our ancestral language, but the gemoro, reflecting a looser, less edited version of learning, was writen in aramaic dialects. Remember also that there was a “meturgamen’ (translator), present at both the “krias hatorah’ and also at various amoraic discourses.

After that, arabic actually became the main spoken language. Rav saadyah Gaon and the rambam and many others (Chovas halevoves)wrote in arabic.

Only when the jews started migrating to germany-well into the Middle Ages,around 1200 c.e.- did yiddish appear.

SO- yiddish is a spoken dialect that- in reality – has no more intrinsic kedusha than arabic or french (rashi’s language). It is indeed a wonderful language but certainly has no kedusah per se.

Ivrit is certainly the present manifestation of old hebrew and has the same kedushah- if you maintain that Hebrew has kedusha. How to pronounce it differs from place to place and country to country, as you saw from “shibboleth’ and also the aleph-ayin controversy. The yemenites probably are closest to the original (only they have a differcne between a gimmel and a gimmel degusho, for example)

It is also totally irrelevant that Ben jehuda brought it back in its modern form. So what?

Aramaic seems to be a little bit different because it is a cousin of old Hebrew and our alphabet is of aramaic origin too. It also is the most ancient one- note “jagar sahadosseh, at the end of Vayetzeh-

So, yiddish is wonderful but is surely a german dialect,with no intrinsic kedusha. And I know plenty of so-called “inappropriate’ words in yiddish.

I see that the issue of ‘daas torah’ rears its head every time. The posters who know me will know what my view is about this but I was truly astounded to read ‘tal’s words.

“My rabbonim are not wrong” she writes. NEVER???? Even Moshe rabbeinu was wrong at times…

“if you are true yrei elokim, it would not occur”. You mean to tell me that a Rov- or Godol, for that matter” never had a “takoloh’ ( failure) in his life???

To insist that the above two statements are truesmacks of another religion , not Judaism…..

And,BTW, many Gedolim supported Shabtai Zvi- did they not make a mistake? How about rabbi Akiva and Bar kochba?

My point in these forii has always been that we are all human-yes, human,tal- and only the Almighty is infallible. BTW- the gemoro that you quote has nothing to do with our discussion, It deals with the power of prayer and that the previous generations were alwyas better than us- a statement that I readily concur with.

Lastly, there are many rebbes (and the Chazon ish)who gave medical advice. I am pretty usre they were “anavim”.

Methinks- tal- that you are still ab it young!

I appreciate yankdownunder’s concern about Play-do, but the “cheshash” is so remote that I would not not worry about it.

First- it is pretty clear that whatever edible ingredient may have been added to the playdough, it is “nifsal me-achilas kelev” and is not considered food.

Second, it is not evern clear if whatever is collected from the bottom of the wine caskets comes under the heading of ‘stam jenom”.

Thirdly-even if all of the above is positive, the amount is so infinitesimal that it is bottul beshishim.

Fourthly,any soup spilled is not a kli rishon-because it is either from the plate (kli shlishi) and even if form the pot directly, it is “irui kli rishon’ that is only “mevashel k’dei klipah”.

Lastly, how can a table become treifa anyway? You don’t eat off it and , by the time you put any food on it, it is cold.

So, I thank yankdowunder for his great ‘zehirus’ but this will come under the heading of a “chumro” that is not incumbent upon others to adhere to.

Boy, I must be on “joseph’s mind these days….I have not “posted” much recently (some of us have jobs…) and I was idly leafing throught the new postings….and wonder above wonder, there is joseph, mentioning my name!

I think he is alluding to a remark made some time ago when I said (a bit facetiously) that I am ‘all of the above”. Actually, I am a mongrel, part galicianer, part hungarian, a pinch of yekkers and a dose of sefardim !

There are two fully kosher establishments in columbus. One is the Torah center (Lubavtich0 excelelnt food but not sitdown and the second is sammy’s bagels. i thin kthere is also a koshe bakery. Look in the white pages (google them) for Rabbi Weiss or Rabbi Zack. You cna call them to check on this news.

joseph, on a differnet thread, I agreed with a quotaiton you brought down from R”aharon Kotler zz’l, (see thread).

On this thread, I could not disgaree with you more. We just read , a few weeks ago, parshat Vajishlach and you know the Rashi as well as I. There are three ways to approach enemies and they include ALL. Doron- negotations, tefillah- prayer but ALSo milchomo. So, it is totally wrong to say that tefillah is the only way.

oomis, the gemoro is on berochas daf yud (ten) amud alef, on the story of Rav Meir, his wife and the evil people in their neighbourhood. It clearly states that you pray to eliminate the sin and, in such a way, bring the sinner back to teshuvo.

joseph – you are indeed right in asserting that “nesei sefer venechzei” (bring a sefer and let’s see what’s there”. IYH I’ll try to get hold fo these seforim and look into your mekoros.

intellegent-the point is that many posters actually denigrate the PEOPLE who espouse the confliecet views. that is clearly wrong.

To Joseph, simply,I do NOT believe you on what you wrote and I maintain that you have taken it totally out of context. You write that it was a hesped,hence – at best- it is something that was written down later by someone else and it is not a reliable source about anything.

Second- you are indeed correct in saying hat I consider ALL jews-including Reform and Conservative- Jews that must be embraced, not rejected. NOTE that I say “Jews’ and not shittas. In that I simply follow the gemoro that tells me to despise the “chet” (sin) and not the “choitim” (sinners). You can look it up in gemoro berochos.

Hence, I reject your artificial conjecture of “ROB vs. R’Aharon”. That is silly and you are only trying to avoid the actual question.

Lastly, it would be wrong for anyone to try to shove out of Klal Yisroel any Jew. In that, I follow the shittah of the Lubavitcher rebbbe and yes, Rav Kook.Two gedolim that you do not embrace but that I have the full right to follow.

So, yes, to talk about ORTHODOX Jews ,as if they were “Poshim” is offensive.