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popa bar abba : I am.oh so happy, to see that you think it is idiotic for a kallah to go to the mikvah-regardless of her future intentions. Not to mention that she may appreciate this part of taharas hamishpacha and decide to keep doing this. Yup, very idiotic.
As I mentioned, the one good thing is that you are not in charge of weddings in Israel.
popa bar abba: As usual, your comments are reprehensible. So, going to the mikvah- even once- is not meritorious??? Quoting your words: “it is is idiotic and pandering”. so, going to the mikvah and having a fully kosher wedding is pandering???
Boruch Hashem thst you are not in charge of weddings in Eretz Yisroel.
Sam 2 and Charliehall: I am not aware of the “tzomet’ system but I do know that R”Moshe Feinstein zz’l (no MO for sure) clearly allows a megaphone that is not electrical to be used on shabbos. Check his teshuvos. Additionally, there were some Orthodox Poskim that allowed microphones-especially solid state ones- because it is not only “grama”, but ,in essence, the circuits are open all the time.
Elazar Valk and Moshe S : There are certain voice amplifiers -such as megaphones, that are muttar on Shabbos. Check R’Moshe Feinstein on that. So, your assumption is probably wrong, as there are systems that are fully permissible on Shabbos.
Avi K: Although I am philosophically aligned with you, your statement about the Chofetz Chaim and R”Elchonon does not ring true. The Chofetz Chaim died in 1933, I think, and I highly doubt that anyone in Europe had any inkling what would happen. Unless you produce an actual recording, this story is an invention
Sam2: You do realize that the Israeli Rabbanut and the vast majority of dati leumi Poskim disagree with the view you just mentioned? As a matter of fact, they maintain that on Jom jershalaim you should say hallel with a brocho-unlike Yom Ha-atazmaut where there are different opinions.
mw13: We also say hallel on 28 Iyar-the day of re-unification of Jerushalaim.As a matter of fact, there probably is more reason to say hallel on 28 iyar than Yom Ha-atzmaut.
Health: For once, you have a valid question and it deserves a logical answer. First of all, who says I would vote for Hillary? There is such a thing as abstaining and there are other choices on the ballot. Personally I hope they start a third-conservative- party.
However, if one is really angry, one votes against a party that is stupid enough to choose Mr. Drumpf. Such a party- and its voters- don’t deserve to be in power-ever.
Mr. Drumpf is the most unqualified and dangerous man to run for President. Check out what he said yesterday about the national debt and US Securities. If he ever gets o the White House,he will cost this nation trillions of dollars in extra interest costs and drive the reputation of the United States into the mud. We would be just like Greece.
dovrosembaum: Successful people are republicans….
Warren Buffett? Mark Zuckerberg? Bloomberg? Steve Jobs? Bill Gates? Howard Schulz ?
your other statements, this one was also ridiculous. By the way, you are totally wrong about my political leanings- I am a proud conservative and would have supported any CONSERVATIVE candidate. Mr . Drumpf is NOT a conservative. He is a genius at being a con man- conned the banks, conned the poor investors,conned his supporters and is trying to con the nation.
dovrosenbaum: Boy, that KOOL-AID must have tasted awfully good.Probably spiked with some illegal substance,
Mister Drumpf is a liar. He has always been a liberal. He is not even close to be a rich as he claims. See the refusal to produce tax returns,.Mr. Drumpf has stolen money from thousands of small people. See Trump University, failed casinos, employees who lost their jobs in the bankruptcies. Mr. Drumpf is a menace to the world- he wants to expand the nuclear club! Think if it! Mr. Drumpf spits on our allies-he wants to disband NATO. Mr. Drumpf even lies about his love for Israel-he wants to be “neutral” in that dispute…..
And the list goes on and on…….
Health: All we have to know about your ideas is YOUR statement: “we’d need a guy like Putin”. Right. Exactly what those angry Germans said in 1933. We need guy like Adolf! Enough said abut your ideas..
dbrim: Your insult of thousands of good jews calling them “self-hating jews’,because they oppose the charlatan Drumpf is offensive and deeply insulting.
Trump is absolutely and exactly what has been said about him. He IS liberal,nationalistic,and socialist…He has already changed his view about important matters, just hours after h became the presumptive nominee. He lies as he breathes and will continue lying. And, who are these vaunted pro-Israel advisers? Those who told him to be “neutral’ between israel and the Palestinians? Or those who advise him to be the most isolationist person since Lindbergh?
DaasYochid: “befar-esjeh” means before -at least- ten Jews. JFK is not exactly a place where frum jews will congregate on “yom tov sheni”
Health-and trump lovers: Someone who has “that” book by the last nationalist socialist as his bedside reading is indeed a follower of the heinous author……No ifs or buts….
And, last time I looked, it was Mr. Drumpf who was extolling the greatness of that great Democrat=Vladimir Putin.
And you accuse ME of being a Communist????? HaHahHah
dbrim-and others-Trump is a menace to society. he is a “national socialist”- proudly advertising his nationalism and his programs-trade tariffs, coercion of companies, protectionism-are pure socialist.
Remember who was the last “national socialist” leader…..Trump loves his book.
simcha613: -sigh- It is totally irrelevant that Eretz Yisroel is led by Zionists. The plain fact is that eight million people live there now, six and a half million are jews. Any change of sovereignty condemns these people to oppression and death. All you have to do is look at everyday news of what is happening in that part of the world EVERY DAY. To claim-as you seem to say- that “Zionist sovereignty is no different than Arab sovereignty” is dangerous and a blatant lie. And it is not a secular government. It has a great many frum jews amongst the leaders-including chareidim.
“groan”……..I always try to avoid these sterile discussions but one remark by “Joseph” had me choke on my morning coffee and impelled me to comment. He writes:
“sovereignty is not worth one jewish life”. This comment is nonsensical, flies in the face of all of jewish history and actually debases Am Yisroel and millions of jews who, throughout history have fought for the independence of Eretz Yisroel.
His comment will come as an affront to Jehoshua and the tribes, to Dovid Hamelech and all of the Melochim of Baiyt rishon, to the Chasmonoin,to Rabbi Akiva who believed in Bar Kochba, in all of the Rishonim who clearly believed in waging war,especially a defensive one…..and many other examples.
This kind of remark is truly dangerous as it will endanger and commit to destruction millions of jews. And it is a fabrication and a lie.
Health: your one comment disqualifies you from any reasonable discussion on anything.
“I want Turkey to take over the country”
FEH.
yekke2: My remarks were directed at the wish to write out of the jewish klal anyone who ever sins. And, yes, even a person who keeps very few mitzvos should never be excluded from klal yisroel. You may not call him “religious” but he is still part of the klal. Same with the government- even if it has failed to advance all of the halachic needs of the country-it still is a Jewish govt and should be treated as such, warts and all.
Health: As usual,your comments are nonsensical and totally unrealistic. You want the Israeli govt to ban driving on shabbos? You cannot even ban driving in Boro Park or Williamsburg- even by jews-and you want the Israeli govt to act like dictators? You do realize that the majority of Israelis are not religious, don’t you? Some things the govt can do, sone it cannot do. It cannot ban “bossor vecholov” in restaurants, it cannot ban driving on shabbos. You want to change this? Move to Israel and vote for the chareidim. At least, then, you would do some constructive things, rather than complaining from thousands of miles away.
DaasYochid: You know quite well that virtually through Shas and all halacha , all sinners are considered “letei-ovon” and not “le-hachis”. So, So, my point to Neuqiam is very valid.
Neutiqyam: My earlier responses were quite clear and only seem nonsensical to you but I digress.
To your main point-no, I do not agree with at all. Even if a person continues to transgress a specific “aveirah” it does not disqualify his “jewishness” Your reasoning is -again- an extreme example of the self-righteosness of chareidim today, without any understanding of human beings and their weaknesses.
Even your example is faulty. I have known a number of people who actually were in the specific situation that you describe yet they were not thrown out of the klal. Rather, they were nurtured until they re-entered the klal. To call everyone who commits an aveirah , even for a long time, a heretic and, by extension, throw that person out of the klal is the surest way of losing the bulk o our people.
Kal vachomer when we talk of a government that has to juggle many interests and pressure. It is always easy to criticize and throw the shells from the peanut gallery- it is quite different when having to tackle the concrete problems.
Neutiquam:Your extreme views on what i considered halacha and who follows it , is in total contradiction to hundreds of maamorei chazal. I am not going to engage into a debate on whether the laws of the State -of israel- are based on halacha or not- clearly many are- because you will never be satisfied with anything the govt dos. Do we need chazon shiur tzitsis? do we keep rabbeinu Tam’s zman? Do we need a Badatz hechsher? the fact is you will never be satisfied. But my beef with you is the fact that you Passel any jew who makes any aveirah. You condemn a jew who keeps shabbos but eats “pork”. How about loshon horah? How about mesirah? the ‘lav’ of “lo telech rochil beamechu’ is exactly as stringent as not eating chazir. According to you, virtually every jew is not considered religious. How about “kibud ov ve’em”. Do you even know stringent this is,according to the gemoro? We are probably all of us not doing that mitzvah. So, we are all not living according to halacha? Life is nt perfect and teshuva is all encompassing and yet it does not come easily. Try to be more humble and allow for human frailty.
yekke2: you did a lot more than just arguing about a name. Do re-read your posts and you will see that the hostility to Eretz Yisroel is palpable- you totally ignore the rel advances of yiddiskeit these past sixty years and you continue to denigrate the leaders-even those who have worked hard to advance Yiddishkeit in israel. I include the Agudah in those leaders.
yekke2: The standards of present day medinat yisroel are pretty good, even for a very frum jew. hilchos gittin ve kiddushin is al pi halacha. so is giyur and so is shabbos in many cities. So is the standards of kashrut and officialdom. is it perfect? no but life is never perfect.
yekke2 and nutiquam too: You are taking an absolutist view that is neither historically nor halachically correct. Virtually never was the whole klal Yisroel observant-maybe in chizkijohu’s time? Neither is it a requirement by the halocho to have a religious leader for the state to be legitimate.
Well, Avi k does not need my help as he is learned enough and erudite to defend his views but I thought I’d give him a hand. The religious Zionists are often accused of being blind to the failings of medinat israel but the blindness is more acute and more complete with the opponents of the medinah.
Neutiquam has a long entry that is only remarkable in its fallacies and misrepresentations. To write that the state’s halachic standards are not enough for any frum jew is a ridiculous argument and a false one. Since time immemorial, there have always been less than ideal regimes in eretz yisroel. Did that make the frum jews to leave and disavow the state? No, they tried to improve it by example and by exhortations. Never did they turn their back on other jews. And- to add insult to injury- the writer insults every jew who is not perfect. Keeping shabbos does not diminish that person even if he transgresses by eating pork r’l. More ridiculously, comparing that behavior to the Israeli government is just plain fantasy. Eretz yisroel is not-yet- a fully religious state but it is getting there. You may not have noticed but it has been pointed out that-for the first time- all three branches of the security apparatus in israel are shomre shabbos. Many other parts of the Israeli bureaucracies have been occupied by frum jews. That is a major achievement and things will continue to improve. Until the third bais hamikdosh, that will come down intact from the heavens, nothing can be built in one moment. It is indeed “aschalte de geulah” and only the obtuse refuse to see it in their blindness.
The total ignorance by yekke2 and many others of our history shows that their opposition to medinat Yiroel is blind to any reasoning. From yekke2’s words, you would have thought that there was never a bad king or regime in our history. Did they ever learned TeNach? Did they ever read the neviim? In Bays rishon, there was rampant idolatry and other sinful behavior- yet there was no question of denying the jewishness of the Kings on both sides. Same in the time of bayis sheni and the descendants o the Hasmoneans. Go learn some of that history and see that ,whatever the religious status of the leaders, there was no denying the validity of the jewish state.
We may not yet be in full accordance with halacha but it is a lot better that under any other regime-and that includes Western overlords. You can always peddle your fantasies in some Jewish quarters but do not think that it is the truth.
Nutiquam- I hav long ago already quit this kin of forum-because the vast majority of posters come to this with minds already made up. But I will give a very straight answer and it is :YES. In many spheres, the law of he land is based on halacha. The laws of marriage and divorce, in many towns the laws of shabbos , In all of official Israel the laws of kashrut, and many other instances. So your inference that it is not based on halacha is wrong.
But, why does this matter? There were plenty of non-religious kings in Baiys rishon and others in Bayis Sheni and yet it did not invalidate the legitimacy of Eretz Yisroel. Why should this matter now?
avi K: you are over 60 ? wow-puts you in my age group ! I admire your erudition but you do realize that you will not be able to change some people’s mind,even if you just said that the sun rises in the east -they will say that the sun rises in the west-especially if they find some “godol” to confirm this. This is why I have stopped posting-it ends up being a waste of time. Nonetheless- ‘yasher kochacho-you are doing a magnificent job !
HEALTH
What delicious irony: Invoking Ettinger for the purpose of attacking medinat Yisroel. Ettinger, whose whole family has fought and died for the Zionist ideal of medinat yisroel….Yup- he is whom you rely upon to support your twisted view of medinat yisroel.
newbee: You may be correct in your assessment that Trump-real name, Drumpf-will not be able to change the Constitution and the basic fabric of the nation-However, he will be Obama on steroids when it comes to “executive actions”-as Congress will not defer to him- and he will be Nixon-with is enemies list- on super steroids. He is a narcissist, a liar and a danger to the basic fabric of the Republic.
apukerma: You cannot have it both ways. If you think that he is such a practical person an that he is only telling people what they want to hear- then how can you trust him on anything??? Neither Eienhower not Nixon were ever that cynical. In my eyes-and many other people’s eyes- he is crass, crude and has no principles whatsoever. Not exactly the kind of person you want to become President. We may not like Hillary but she is a pretty constant figure- not mediocre at all -and sometimes you prefer the devil you know to the devil you don’t know.
theprof1: Where did you find that story about Jochanan Kohen Godol? I doubt if strawberries were even available in Eretz Yiroel on those days.
apukerma: There is not a scintilla of evidence that The Dumpster is anything else than what we see. He is a bully, a narcissist, a liar and he has already destroyed the Republican Party. If you doubt that, note what he said this morning on one of his favorite TV programs -I heard it on radio,btw-He was asked whom does he consult with on important matters. His answer? “Myself- I have a good brain”.
Narcissism on steroids and totally unsuitable to be President.
Schwartzy: see above. Not a scintilla of evidence that he is anything than what you see.
DaMoshe: sadly, you are another proof how the huckster is bamboozling the good citizens of our republic. Honest about things? Such as fooling gullible people to enroll in a fraudulent University? Such as having all of his crummy ties made in China yet claiming he is for the American worker? such as changing his stance on abortion more times than a windmill? Such as being a democrat all his life and becoming a republican because the democrats would have had the good sense to kick him out of their party? Yup- Honest Abe in person- after all, he says that the only President better than him is Abraham Lincoln…
He is much more dangerous than any other candidate running now- he is an extreme narcissist, an even bigger pathological liar than Ms. Clinton, a man with such thin skin that he would make Nixon’s list of enemies look like the Cliff notes for HIS list..I could go on and on. Trump is the absoluter last man on earth I would allow near the red button. And, of course, he has shown himself to be hostile to israel,regardless of his jewwish kin. Yeah, sure ,he is the “lesser evil” Hashem jishmereinu.
charliehall: Not only do I fully agree with you but this election cycle has turned me from being a conservative into a Democrat. The Republican Party deserves to be out of power for the next thirty years,in light of this horrendous primary season. Trump is , at best, a Dixiecrat and, at worse a Mussolini with bad hair.
health: well, I burst out laughing readng your response. Your comments are becoming the stuff of legends, you should try stand up comic!
squeak: writersoul and Sam2 clearly explained the similarities to Hitler and to these views, I suscribe fully. Allow me to add that the most dangerous part of a Trump Presidency is his thin skin and his impulsiveness. He would be Nixon on steroids with his list of enemies, he would be Obama on super steroids with executive orders when he could not get his way in Congress and, Heaven forbid, we don’t know what he would do to any nation that defies him-and that includes Israel where he wants to be “neutral” .The comparison to Hitler is not in actual facts -yet!- but in how he demagogues everything and how he demonizes minorities…If you can’t see the similarities to Hitler then you have forgotten how Hitler came to power-throught elections!
Actually, I think he is more like Mussolini than Hitler but that is scant consolation.And the most recent figure in the US to be compared to is George Wallace who had the exact same electoral success as Trump-in the Deep South and in the old Rust belt. Look it up.
Health: pray explain to us in your very erudite ways what “bechira” really is…..
And I trust that , according to our words,you will accept that “medinat Israel” is from Hashem too…Remember that when we argue about the medinah next time…..
Health: Trump popularity id from Hashem. So Hitler’s popularity was from Hashem too? Do you realize that there is such a thing as “bechirah”?
Joseph: you are spouting conventional wisdom and that has been upended all year long. If Rubio withdraws now, that opens the door wide to a trump victory. Rubio stays in and he has a chance-especially as I think that Cruz is going to syphon off many votes from trump.
Sam2- about the only thing that Trump has not done yet is having his brownshirts kill someone. Everything else has been done. Threatening people at his rallies, threatening The Speaker of the House, demonizing minorities and disabled people (remember the eugenic program of the Nazis?), ordering soldiers to commit war crimes….etc. So, Pray tell where the big difference is. Hitler also won elections.
squeak-Comparison to Hitler is hype? In recent rallies, Trump is asking for a show of hands and a pledge to support the “leader”. Nurnberg style. Here we come, Brownshirts and all. Yeah-sure- comparison to Hitler is hyped! HA!
health -an other Trump supporters! Just for those who think he is not a fascist an a Nazi- please not the Nazi salute-just like at Nurnberg-at Trump rallies. Started by the “Fuhrer” himself. Welcome to the brownshirts ! You don’t believe me? Check the newsclips!
health: He is NOT an accomplished businessman. He has had a very checkered career as a businessman. there are many.many business people who have had better business careers. And note that the last businessman who was President was herbert Hoover. Enough said.
health: you sound like someone who has no clue about the truth, like your favored candidate, Mr. Drumpf. Why would Mister Drumpf be a lesser evil??? He is liar and cannot be trusted on anything, he is emphatically NOT a conservative and he is certainly not pro-Israel. Te latter alone would disqualify him in my eyes but there is so much else, like his many scams, his bankruptcies, his avid support of Democrats and other things I could not even repeat here that makes him the most ill-suited candidate for President EVER. Go and get some information. Read some conservative websites-National Review,red state and others-and see how apoplectic real conservatives are about Mr. Drumpf. And, by the way if you doubt his fascist and nazi tendencies, see what he did a rally in Orlando yesterday, it looked just like Nurnberg and Hitler! Check it out!
dovrosenbaum: I don’t know who you are but you are just a pro-Drumpf plant and apologist.Donald Drumpf has lied so many times on so many subjects that he doesn’t know what the truth is anymore. Against illegal immigration!-yet, he employs illegal immigrants himself. Against China and Mexico, those dastardly nations who take away our jobs,yet, his own line of tacky ties and suits is manufactured in China ! He will make America great again, by bringing all those lost jobs back…Yet, he has four bankruptcies and numerous failed businesses , where the only person benefiting is Donald Drumpf,while thousands of little guys-that he claims to represent- lose their jobs and life savings..Give me a break-he is the biggest huckster yet!
dovrosenbaum: Mister Drumpf-his real name- is a racist and a fascist and maybe even a cryptoNazi.He declines to condemn the KKK, his brownshirts kick out number of black Americans-who were just sitting quietly- from one of his meetings, he declares he will be “neutral’ between Israel and the terrorists, he loves every dictator-Putin, Hussein, Mussolini-and he wants to gut the First Amendment. And this is YOUR candidate??
DaasYochid and others: “Jekum Purkon ” -mussaf- anyone? The “jehi rotzons’ on monday and Thursday anyone? The “Tosfos Yomtov” mi sheberach for non talkers in shul, anyone?? There are a multitude of prayers we do on weekdays and shabbos for various groups- and it would be very acceptable to include a “mi sheberach” for soldiers. It is only politics that prevent it and that is sad.
dovrosenbaum: you totally ignore history. Those Japanese that you refer to, as an example, were AMERICANS, born here and full citizens. Until today, their internment is a blemish on the US. And, Illegals,as per the Supreme Court, do have rights here. You may not like it, but that is the law. And, once you open the gates to cruel measures, there is no way to limit it only to illegals. What you have to do is close and protect the borders. Then, time will take its toll, as most of these illegals will ultimately die and leave their American kids as full citizens.
dovrosenbaum: your comments are despicable. You are a xenophobe and no Jew should ever,ever be a xenophobe. We suffered for two thousand years from that “machele” and now you want to inflict it upon others. Shame on you. Apart from this, the fact is that my gardener is Spanish, the cashier in my-kosher- supermarket is Spanish, my dry cleaner is Spanish and many more examples of law-abiding,hardwoking foreigners. Just as your grandparents were when they came to America.