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To Always
By all means take your best shot at me, but at least let me understand your putdown.Yankel Berel
You’re a breath of fresh air for this thread. I’d like to piggy back on to some of your points. Shmuel Butman repeatedly announces on his programs that when Moshiach comes there won’t be any more Shnayim Ochzim Bitalis. Then he adds that tbere will only be the Kabbalistic understanding of the Gemara. Chabad views Nigleh as an enemy that must be eliminated C”V. As for the Rebbe’s popularity, a poster noted that many Gedolim were taken in by Shabbetai Tzvi.
To the groupOn Sunday mornings tha Chabad shul I attend has a breakfast and shiur after davenimg. In the last few months the class consists of reading letters from the Rebbe. In one such letter the Rebbe described the characteristics of a Nasi Chabad, and I’ll quote,”Every Nasi Chabad is a Baal Mofes, and he has Ruach Hakodesh. But the main thing to know is that the Nasi Chabad is the Nasi Hador.” In a different thread Sechel83 said he’ll accept the worst Snag as Moshiach if he fulfills Rambam’s criteria. But he’s lying. Every Lubavicher accepts that the Rebbe is a Novi and he declared that Moshiach must be a Lubavicher.
To CS
So every Jew that dies passes thru the Rebbe’s office at 770. I see so now the Rebbe is god and Malach Hamaves.To Menachem Shmei
Your latest commdnt is totally disingenuous. You can’t de y that you amd n0mesorah on numerous occasions told me and others to study the Sugya in question. In contrast, i clearly syated that I’m not endorsing TV watching and I’m not challenging the Psak. All I said is that the Psak is not absolute. As a moshol Rav Moshe was strict regarding Eruvin. Other Poskim allow making an Eruv in se areas that Rav Moshe forbids. I follow Rav Moshe but I would never question someone who takes tbe more lenient view. Checkmate. That one is on the house. Remember it’s not personal. It’s been fun sparrimg with you, necause I like you
Happy new year. Sorry I forgot your RH is in December. ByTo the group
In this thread too many of the participants try to impose their opinions on others. Obviously, we have the anti TV”ers who want me to admit that I’m not a legitimate Jew because I partake of that “vice.” Then we have n0mesorah and Menachem Shmei who want me to study the sugya which “proves” that the Rebbe is god. I harbor no delusions about getting anyone to change. Rather let’s simply accept the fact that the Lubavichers believe that the Rebbe is god and so there’s no point in continuing to argue.To Yankel Berel
Thank you so much for your comment. I really don’t understand the vitriol coming from the radical right wingers in this thread. At no time have I suggested that MO is the ideal, nor have I criticized any Kol Koreh against TV. I merely said that my Rov, who’s an enormous Talmid Chacham and he’s a Feinstein said it’s ok for me to watch. He didn’t give me a Heter that would mean it’s Asur but he made an exception. I think these Yeshivish extremists hate me because they’ve been brainwashed into believing that all MO’s are idiotic, Am Aratzim and apikorsim, Ifrighten them because I don’t fit their cookie cutter mold.
To ujm
Read what I wrote to yankel berel for your answer. If you have a problem go toTJ and ask the Feinsteins.
To the Lubavichers
Some years ago Rabbi Daniel Mechanic spoke in our Shul. Je had the opportunity to go to Hollywood and meet Kirk Dou
glas, Jason Alexandwr and Larry David. He told them
the following,”I can’t prove that there’s a G-d but if there is boy will you guys be in trouble.” I can’t prove that the Rebbe isn’t god, but if I’m right, boy are yoj guys in trouble.To ARSo
Could you tell me where the Hey Jude comment can be found? I will certainly admit my error.
To moderator
My apology. I had in mind to tell you not to edit or censor any defamatory remarks made against me, but I didn’t actually send that. My bad.
To Lostspark
I assume that your point is that Rav Moshe knew that the Rebbe declared himself god in 1962 and not only did he say nothing but he endorsed the idea when he accepted the Tefilin. Let me make this perfectly clear. Nobody that I’ve spoken to has ever heard about the 1962 sicha. And that most definitely includes the Feinsteins.I only became aware of it thanks to this thread.
To Always
I’d just make one point. My Rov didn’t give me a heter. What he said is that there’s no problem at all because I basically just watch sports. But if you don’t have a TV keep it that way. It can be addictive. But the CR can also be addictive.To Menachem
As I’ve clearly articulated, I will not get involved in any discussion about a dead Jew being god. I think you’re a dec
ent fellow so Hashem should have Rachmanus on you.To n0mesorah
I never said a word about hating Chabad. I am simply protesting its theology. As I see it, to believe that the Ribono Shel Olam is a dead Rabbi is idolatry. If I’m wrong time will tell. As I’ve made clear I daven with Lubavichers and get along great with them. By the way, I think you’re right about Menachem Shmei. He is a decent fellow. And thanks for backing me up on the TV issue. Did Avira compare my watching TV to using a phone on Shabbos, or did I misunderstand your reference? I really had no idea that Jews could have such intense, visceral hatred for other Jews, and for absolutely no reason. This is the epitome of Sinas Chinam, but haters, by definition, are irrational.
To Lostspark
If, as has been reported in this thread, the Rebbe announced that he was god in 1962, then he made himself an idol at that moment. Now go ahead and take your shot at me. I’ve told the moderators not to hold anything back.
Huh?
To Avira
I’d just make one slight but important correction to what you wrote morning. You said that the East Side is a community in which the MO’s associate with Torah Jews becuse of tje type of Rabbonim who are there. The Diyuk of your statement is that the MO’s arent Torah Jews. There are two types of MO’s in the neighborhood. Some are like me, fully observant the whole 9 yards ok take off a few inches for having a TV. Then there are MO’swho are Karov to irreligious. The Rabbonim get along with everyone even the open Mechallels but as for someone like me they treat us as equals. We don’t advocate hating Jews as you feiner Yidden do. Think about it. Of course you won’t.
I think I have a way to put a bow on this entire t
thread. The anti TV’ers are really no different than the Rebbe is goders. Each believes what they’ve been told by their Rabbis and they feel that they must defend that position at all costs. To Menachem Shmei’s credit, he’s able to understand that I have a healthy relationship with my Rabbonim in which we listen to each other and learn from each other. Unfortunately the black hatters are so dogmatic that anyone who veers from their concept of how a Jew must act is labeled off the derech. I’m resigned to fact that neither group will budge. Maybe the smartest person was Neville who bowed out early. I am glad that I
got involved because I never would have known that it was the Rebbe who declared that he’s god. R”L.To n0mesorah
I think Moshiach must be near because you just made a reasonable comment. There’s absolutely no reason to argue about this subject as you said.
To ARSo
As Rabbi Shmei noted, I do have an excellent relationship with my Rabbonim(LES and Brooklyn.) I definitely show them respect, because they’re Talmidei Chachamim and I’m not(not even close), but they also value my opinion. I write a weekly Dvar Torah which is very well accepted because I write well but also because I know how to use my Treif(rock music and sports) influences to flavor my work. I’m quite aware that I’m unconventional but I treat Yiddeishkeit with the utmost gravity. By the way, you never explained how you knew about my Hey Jude remark since that post wasn’t printed. My hunch is that you’re one of the moderators, but that’s just a guess. Here’s my new catchphrase, “You’re on the clock.” I think they used that during the Bobby Fischer Boris Spassky match.
To Rabbi Menachem Shmei
Every once in a while you say something that makes it hard for me to hate you. I’m just kidding. As noted I daven in a Chabad shul(I no longer live on the LES) and we get along great. You know why? Because they’re nice and I’m nice. And I sense that you’re also a good guy. I’m obligated to challenge you because I believe Chabad is idolatry, but there’s no personal animosity on my part. Sadly I can’t say the same for the Yeshivish lynch mob that wants to tar and feather me for doing something that I’ve proven is within the bounds of Halacha. I can’t resist taking this shot. If you want to have a relationship with a living Rabbi you know what you have to do. The truth will hurt at first, but ultimately the truth will set you free. FtTo Avira
The Rov who said it’s alright for me to watch TV is a respected .ember of the Feinstein family. I’m not at liberty to give any more information. He knows me for almost 60 years. He saw my transformation from basic nothingness religiously to who I am today. Why are you so obstinate? You’ve convinced yourself that you’re saving me, but the truth is that you can’t deal with the thought that a legitimate Torah Jew can watch TV. My assumption is that it violates Rabbi Miller’s doctrine.
To Avira and ARSo
I apologize for the incendiary time of my last post. I should know better it’s Elul. If you pay attention to my posts you’ll see that I never suggested that one should have a TV. I never challenged the Kol Koreh. The fact is that a significant percentage of obsevant Jews do watch TV. If you want to think that you’re a better Jew than me I couldn’t care less. I follow Halacha and I’ve been told unequivocally that watching TV is not in violation of the Torah. Let’s put an end to this dispute and focus on
the real issue, editedTo Avira
As you correctly stated the East Side has both a Yeshivish and modern element. The Yeshivish faction certainly doesn’t watch TV, but the modern does.And you know what? We all get along and respect each other. As for your suggestion that R Dovid was too humble to sign that’s a Doche answer and you know it. Rav .osne signed the original Kol Koreh and we’ll both agree that he was exceedingly humble.To ARSo
Rav Reuvein and I used to live on the same building, before he moved to SI. I consider him a friend as well as a Rov because he’s a beautiful person. Let me share an incident. Rav Reuvein used to daven at the 7,am minyan on Shabbos at the Bialystoker. I was coming downstairs to go to shul and he was ready to walk upstairs.He saw a mechallel Shabbos woman about to take the elevator. Did he give her Mussar? Did he shun her? No they
spoke cordially to each other for about five minutes. I know you guys feel the need to impose your Flatbush elitist attitude on me, but my approach to Yiddishkeit is within the bounds of Halacha. On the other hand you’ll have to answer to Hashem for the lies you invented when you tried to prove I’m a goy for having a TV. Remember Eilu VEilu Divrei Elokim Dude.To YWN moderator (s)
I was in shul yesterday and the Rov told me, “This is the most informative thread I’ve ever read in my life.” You guys are doing a great job of allowing both sides to present their positions.To Avira
Having reviewed the list of signatories I noticed a notable absence. That would be Rabbi Miller. This gives credence to my contention that he wasn’t regarded as a Godol. Now I certainly agree that he was a great man but Godol is special territory.To Rabbi Menachem Shmei
Now that you’re back on the Rebbe is god kick here’s my question.,”Do you believe that he’s the one who created the world or is he just the one who now runs the world? Don’t try your stock, study the Sicha answer on me. When I was a kid in MTJ I had my first farherrem. The Rabbi asked me a question and I told him that I know the answer but I can’t explain it He told me if you can’t explain it you don’t know it.To ujm
Since you’re still trying to prove that any Jew with a TV is an atheist I decided to read your posting in 2008 on the subject. You presented a proclamation signed by many Choshuv Rabbonim. One name that didn’t appear is that of Rav Dovid Feinstein.Need I remind you that I’m a Lower East Sider and I follow his authority. As I said, by all means you should follow your Gedolim, but the question of TV is not black and white as it’s opponents would like to believe. Also let make it clear, the Feinsteins don’t have TV’s, but many east siders do. I’ll just add one point to the discussion. I see that there’s an addiction problem in the frum world with regard to viewing inappropriate materials. Regular TV(ie not cable) isn’t the cause of this problem.
To ujm
Rav Yochanan said that every rule has an exception. By the way he was an Amora.That would be a Rabbi who expounds the Mishna. I never said I’m a Talmid Chacham A Ben Torah is someone who loves learning Torah. And I do.
To Coffee Addict
What a coward. Using a reference that’s unfamiliar to me as an insult so that I can’t respond. You should know by now that I can take anything you dish out and give it back in spades. You and the other supposedly religious Jews had no shortage of Issurei Doraysa to accuse me of when I said I watched TV. Of call the charges were baseless. But now I’ll tell you what you’re guilty of. Sinas Chinam. Hating another Jew in your heart. Insulting a Ben Torah. Insulting an orphan I could go on. The difference between my claims and yours is that mine are all absolutely ironclad. And just to add to your perfidy, you attack me on RC Elul. I’ll let Hashem checkmate you. You’re a bigger atheist than the Lubavichers
At least they believe in god. Only problem is that their god is dead.To Coffee Addict
Is that the best you can do? Use an insider’s reference to insult me. I thought sure you’d answer my MO challenge but your silence speaks volumes. You obviously agree that being MO is perfectly valid and Sunday you’ll go online to price 90 inch TV’s. Checkmate
To n0mesorah
I see. So what you’re saying is that my belief in one, all knowing and all powerful G-d is irrational. But to believe, as Chabad does, that a human being is god, or to believe in polytheism is rational. Maybe you’ve been studying too much Kabbalah or maybe you just enjoy being an annoying fool. Come on dude even your Rebbe, Menachem Shmei, conceded to my superiority. Checkmate and peace out.
To the group
What emerged from the TV discussion is that there’s a universal visceral hatred for MO in this thread. Given that R Akiva said that Veahavta Lerayecha Kamocha is the fundamental Mitzvah of the Torah, how do you justify this antipathy?To the group
All rst
Rabbi Menachem Shmei is correct that it takes me a very short time to write these posts and I’ll tell you why. First, writing is my avocation and, so Baruch Hashem it comes very easy to me. Second, and this is more important. Unlike most of the participants my message is consistent. The only reason I spend (waste) my time writing is to expose the flaws in Chabad. It’s amazing that I can’t even tell which side half the posters are on.One post they’re anti Chabad Then they do a 180. Then they decide to go after me. As for this last statement I’ll just make one comment. Rather than spending so much time trying to prove that I’m a goy or trying to teach me how to be a better Jew, you guys should spend time looking at yourselves. The Gemara says that Hashem’s seal is Emes. So many in the group have tried so hard to demonize me, but no has accused me of lying. But quite a number of the posters have lied through their teeth in the hope that they can win the debate. Life for a Jew is about currying Hashem’s favor. Remember it’s Elul.To Litvishe Fellow
Thanks for the support. This thread has run for almost two months. The reason it’s taking so long is because the posters speak out of three sides of their mouth. The case against Chabad is simple. As Litvishe Fellow said calling the Rebbe Moshiach Moshiach, and even moreso calling him god, is not up for discussion. It’s no different than debating with Christians. Look it’s a free country. If the Lubavichers want to continue worshipping the Rebbe that’s their right but we have to make it clear that despite the many good things that Chabad does this is a “One G-d world.”
To Lostspark
What does boomer confirmed mean?To the group
You should learn from Rabbi Menachem Shmei to defend me from these baseless attacks. Instead you join in and defend your calumny by arguing that it’s because I’m MO. But that’s not the real reason. The real reason is that you’re intimidated by my writing skills. It’s basic jealousy. Checkmate. ByTo the group
I think I should make another revelation. About thirty years ago I was a frequent contributor to the Jewish Press. One day I ran into a friend and he told me that I was the single most hated person in Brooklyn. Judging from this thread it’s obvious that I have this effect on people. That’s what happens when you tell the truth.
To lostspark
Mark Twain said, “When you keep your mouth shut you only appear stupid, when you open it you remove all doubt.” The nerve you have to insult my profession.Which grocery do you work in loser?
To Rabbi Menachem Shmei
I owe you an apology. You never said that the Rebbe is god. No what you actually said is that the Rebbe said he’s god. But you reject that out of hand. So Mazel Tov you finally accept what I’ve been saying that the Rebbe isn’t god and isn’t Moshiach. See how easy that was. Checkmate on the Rebbe. By
To lostspark
Duh. I’m so stupid. Must be all that TV I’ve been watching. By the way which medical school did you graduate from? I’m thinking we may have been in the same class. NOT!!!!To Rabbi Menachem Shmei
When I joined this discussion you made a distinction between crazy(Israeli) Lubavichers and normal (American) Lubavichers. I pressed you to explain what made the former crazy and you refused to answer. Instead you told me to look at your previous postings. This time I’ll return the favor and tell you to look at how many times you asserted that the Rebbe is god.
To n0mesorah
“Nobody is thinking that any human is god.”
Once of us needs new reading glasses. Shmei has consistently stated, in no uncertain terms, that the Rebbe is god. I can agree with you that the Rebbe didn’t mean this but that’s what his followers understood him to be saying and that’s a fact.As for my rushing to judgment against other posters. Because I was honest enough to admit that I watch TV I was accused of committing every sin imaginable. That’s not paranoia. it’s a fact. Obviously, I don’t care what they say because I checked with my Rov and he gave me the OK. This, of course, led one poster to malign that Rabbi who is Baki in Shas and Poskim.
To Rabbi Menachem Shmei
I think I’ve made my position quite clear but I’ll repeat it. I do not engage in discussion with anyone who asserts that a human is god. Chazal tell us that a judge who judges properly is a partner with Hashem in creation. Since you’re such a Maamin in these statements then you must believe that all honest judges throughout history worked in tandem 5783(or ~15 billion years ago remember I’m MO) with G-d. That would really be polytheism. How do I, a Torah Jew, understand this Chazal? We say in the davening that each day Hashem recreates the world and so an honest judge is a partner with Hashem because he acts according to Hashem’s wishes. This is a rational approach which does not tamper with the fundamental beliefs of Yiddishkeit. So for the last time don’t give me any more of your Christian proofs. I’m not buying it. Checkmate. And this time it’s final.
To ARSo
I don’t think my Hey Jude line got printed how do you know about it?
To ARSo
Yes you got it. I grew up minimally religious. Only went to shul on Shabbos mornings. At that time my life revolved around sports and music. At the age of thirty I began a journey towards legitimate Torah Judaism. For several years I went sans TV thinking that I had to exorcise my previous influences. Over time I found that I can still follow sports, listen to music yet still spend most of my time learning. I am not suggesting that this is the ideal. For those who want to follow the Chareidi model I say Kol Hakovod. Unfortunately a number of posters are so mean spirited that they refuse to read what I’m saying. I accept every expression of legitimate Torah Judaism. Chabad, of course, is excluded because, as Menachem Shmei has told us, they believe the Rebbe is god.
To Yserbius
Don’t waste your time asking Shmei any questions. He started this thread by stating that he wants to have an open exchange with Torah Jews, but in fact, in the last few days he’s demonstrated that his real goal is to convince us of his belief that the Rebbe is god.
To Lostspark
If Moshiach rules that TV is Assur, I’ll immediately throw mine out. You’re trying to portray me as obsessed with the boob tube. As I mentioned last week, I learn 7 hours a day and only watch about an hour. You should ask yourself why you’re so troubled by the fact that I have a TV. My suspicion is that you(and Coffee Addict) have been brainwashed into believing that anyone who watches TV, is a Kofer ain Lo Chelek Olam Habo. That we eat pork, cheat on our wives, what have you. It’s eating you up because you realize that I’m nothing like what you’d like to believe. Checkmate.
To Moderator
Am I being punished for my honesty? So many posters lie with impunity but they get printed and they refuse to admit that they’re lying. If I could just finish my point to 2scents. Checkmate was only meant for Shmei, but Coffee Addict attacked me so I applied it to him. I routinely praise other posters, but often those comments don’t get printed.
To 2scents
Glad you asked and I’m happy to answer. I entered the fray about 3 weeks ago. I immediately sized up Rabbi Menachem Shmei and nailed him with an unassailable argument against his Did you really think of this post as “civil responses”?To Rabbi Menachem Shmei,
You might take a moment to read what Coffee Addict said. He “praised” me for consulting my Rabbi, but then dismissed what my Rabbi said because it’s like a Lubavicher asking his Rabbi if the Rebbe is Moshiach etc.. So I guess you agree with Coffee Addict that Chabad Rabbis are Treif. Obviously. you’ll say and do anything to beat me. So why is that? The answer is simple. Unlike the others in the thread who are against Chabad, I alone, don’t fall for your tricks. As I’ve mentioned I’m a doctor and over the years some Christian patients have tried to discuss their religion with me. I immediately make it clear that the subject is off limits. In the same vein when you suggest that the Rebbe said or implied that he’s god, you’re swimming in Christian waters and no rational G-d fearing Jew will go there. I couldn’t care less what the Rebbe said. Any suggestion that a human being is god is completely repugnant. Therefore I reiterate, Checkmate.
To Rabbi Menachem Shmei
Boy do I get to you. Checkmate. UseTo Coffee Addict
I hope Moshiach turns out to be MO because a bigot like you won’t accept him and you’ll miss out on all the enjoyment of Geulah. As I’ve stated I am Lower East Side Orthodox which means I follow the Feinstein Mehalech. Rav Moshe made a Shidduch for his daughter with a YU product. I assume you think Rav Moshe was a Karaite who endorsed mixed swimming.
Hey Jude
You don’t write that often but when you do you really nail it. The Mishna on Avos warns Chachom to be careful with their words. Had the Rebbe issued clearcut statements this mess would have been avoided, but he chose not to do so.To coffee addict
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.” The fact that you stoley checkmate line demonstrates that you recognize my superior writing ability. So thank you. As for your commitment that I “outed myself” as MO. So what. In my opinion and in the opinion of my Rabbonim MO is an absolutely valid expression of Yiddishkeit. That you disagree shows that you’re a religious bigot who thinks that Yeshivish people are better than all other Jews.To ARSo
Don’t be surprised by any tactic that Rabbi Shmei uses. He has to defend his god and his false religion.
To Rabbi Menachem Shmei
You make a good point, to wit, how can Rabbi Schachter know to whom Lubavichers daven? The answer is simple. Because of his Talmudic genius, he has Ruach Hakodesh and Malachim revealed this information to him. Similarly, you can ask how Rav Shach knew what was going on in Brooklyn. So we know that he was the Godol Hador which means he was the Moshe Rabbeinu Hador and so he had the same level of Nevuah as Moshe and this allowed him to see what the Rebbe was doing.If you think that’s ridiculous then understand what Jews think when Lubavichers claim that the Rebbe is god. Checkmate.
edited
To the group
So now we have a Machlokes of Chabad Poskim, According to Sechel83 no Lubavicher refers to the Rebbe as god. While according to Rabbi Menachem Shmei every Lubavicher refers to the Rebbe as god because the Rebbe called himself god.To Rabbi Menachem Shmei
Before we began this thread I had no idea that the idea of the Rebbe as god clothed in human form came from the Rebbe himself. All I knew about this is that Rabbi Dr. Berger said that eight Rabbis from Oholei Torah said this. The point is that you can’t accuse me of lying since it was Sechel83 who introduced the Sicha. I have never looked at any of the Rebbe’s Sichos and I plan to keep it that way. Sechel83 said that the Rebbe called himself god clothed in human form. The anti Chabad side, not just me, called this Avoda Zarah. Sechel83 realized that heade a mistake and denied saying this. That’s the truth edited
To Coffee addict
Congratulations you’ve beaten me. You can tell all your Yeshivish friends that the enemy has been defeated. Had you been paying attention to the discussion the question was whether it’s prmissible to watch TV or not. As I stated the other day, my Rov told me it’s allowed. So I win and it’s checkmate. I don’t care what Yeshivish people do because I don’t generally associate with them.
To Sechel83
So now you’re backing off from your previous statement that the Rebbe himself stated that he’s god clothed in human form and all the Gedolim of that time, including Rav Moshe accepted this. Instead you’re saying that no Lubavicher holds like this and no Lubavicher davens to the Rebbe. Instead you’re blaming “some professor” for all the bad press Chabad receives. Let’s take a closer look at that “professor”. He is Rabbi Dr. David Berger. He has Semicha from YU where he graduated as valedictorian. Rabbi Dr. Berger named 8 senior Rabbis from the vaunted Oholei Torah who claimed that the Rebbe was god clothed in human form. Had he been lying he would have been sued for millions. As for your contention that no Lubavicher davens to the Rebbe, Rav Hershel Schachter, one of the world’s most respected Roshe Yeshivos stated on Dovid Lichtenstein radio program that many Lubavichers daven to the Rebbe instead of to Hashem and this is Avoda Zarah. Now I’ll ask you this, “Since you’ve backed off from your previous statements do you also agree that the Rebbe isn’t Moshiach?”
To n0mesorah
“I don’t see anybody here claiming that a human is god.”
We’ll reference you to subset #14 where Sechel83 writes, “The claim that hashem and the Rebbe are one was printed in Likkutei Sichos in 1962. All the gedolim and rebbe’s had no issue till rav shach started attacking Chabad in the 1980’s.” I wrote this exactly as Sechel83 did. If you’ll notice the only two words that we’re capitalized were Rebbe and Chabad, not even Hashem. Try to talk your way out of this one.To the group
I think that n0mesorah is right that this thread, which has been quite extraordinary has run it’s course and so it would seem that closing remarks are called for. On the Chabad side, Sechel83 articulated their view. The Rebbe, in 1962, declared that he is G-d clothed in human form. Neither Rav Moshe nor any of the other Gedolim protested and therefore we can conclude that they all agreed that the Rebbe was god. Everything was fine until that Berger fellow came along. On the anti Chabad side well nothing need be said.To mdd1
N0mesorah doesn’t believe that the Rebbe is G-d. He’s a contrarian and so he says anything to stir controversy. He’s so lost he probably doesn’t even know what he believes. On the other hand Lubavichers do believe that the Rebbe is G-d clothed in human form whatever that means. A Lubavicher once explained it to me as follows:Moshe Rabbeinu was equal to all the Jews of his time.The Rebbe was the Moshe Rabbeinu of our generation and so he was equal to all the Jews who ever lived and this made him G-d. And he was serious. And Rabbi Moshe Shmei knows that what I’m saying is true. Checkmate.
To Sechel83
While some or all of the participants aren’t members of the qwerty 613 fan club no one has questioned my writing ability. This said I think my last post was crystal clear. If the Lubavicher Rebbe actually stated, as you claim, that he is G-d clothed in human form then he is a self made Avoda Zarah. Moreover I will guarantee that Rav Moshe never heard of any such pronouncement or he would have put him in Cherem and ruled that Lubavichers can not be included in a minyan etc. To make it clearer I don’t believe the Rebbe ever said this and if he did Rav Moshe never heard it. Don’t you dare suggest that Rav Moshe would allow such heresy and idolatry.