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i had a similar incedent to zeeskite’s, on the web. It was when a user named zeeskite called me ‘the second son’ etc. not so long ago. I have still not recovered completely. maybe zeeskite can help here. thanks
i was in the barber shop, and i saw on tv that he wasn’t wearing a yarmulke. Of course this should be confirmed with a Rav, but i would say that it is a big mitzvah for him to not keep mitzvos now, when the scrutiny of the entire america is on this horrifying case.
if we would make our tallis katan in a way that can be worn as a shirt, without wearing another shirt underneath, than this whole thing would not be an issue. But we don’t, and i doubt that that is happening. Maybe if some very big machmirim see this thread, they will start to do this. But very big machmirim usually don’t go on the internet.
Maybe we should go around to rabbonim, getting signatures, like some people do for some of the wierdest issues. And i guess that this would also fall under that category. Stop wearing regular shirts, and wear tzitzis shirts.
But its amazing that this is so unheard of, since there is a well known limud from shatnez, and like someone pointed out, that limud is for everything, according to tosfos, and we don’t know of anyone who argues. But we have never heard of anyone who makes a tzitzis shirt and wears it, like would be required for shatnez.
If anything, this could be a reason why not to wear a tallis katan, since it could be a bracha levatalah. Which is really what this entire thread is about in the first place.
itche
“I saw the post about “day beged,” that was what prompted me to start posting in this thread again. My first response to that post was why a tallis katan is a ksus yom. It is a shirt, as evidenced by the fact that many people, Jewish and otherwise wore them as such for centuries and re-enactors still do today. Thus, it is a shirt whether we wear another one on top of it or not. I’m not sure where shatnez comes into it though.”
read some of the other posts on this page. There is a limud from shatnez to tzitzis.
As for the reenactors, i already told you that they are just wearing that garment, with nothing else. So for them, it functions like a shirt. But for us, it has zero function, and it is not even made to have any function (as a ‘day beged’).
“All the time people are saying that all these bad things that happen to us Frum Jews is because of women who aren’t tznius.”
Who can know the cheshbonos of hashem.
ItcheSrulik
i don’t know what you mean with “lmaaseh its a shirt”. For shatnez it needs to have function. And, another possible reason for it to have fuction, is because if not it wouldn’t be a day beged (see the third post on this page for more detail about that if you want).
I don’t know about your question from hilchos shabbos. maybe the halachos of a beged in regards to carrying have different guidelines.
shlishi, fine. i don’t think my family’s minhag is to be makpid on this.
i’m not getting excited. This has to be at least the eighth time in my life that i have heard something like this. but nothing happened.
A belt has a different function. But for shatnez at least, some function is needed. The question is, what about tzitzis.
I think that there is a limud from shatnez to tzitzis. But im not sure if we learn everything from one another, or just specific things. Its probably only for specific things.
josh i think that that would depend on how one understands the concept of a ‘day beged’
shlishi
“quark: Even if we don’t follow the quantification of the principle mentioned in Rambam, we still follow the premise and principle that women should be in the house as much as possible. It is also so stated in Shulchan Aruch itself.”
shlishi if you would provide a mekor for what you are saying (in halacha, not aggada), that would be nice. Because min hasvera, one can certainly argue and say a different pshat in the rambam.
Chacham, i explained what i meant with ‘no distinction’ in another post, but for some odd reason it got deleted. Perhaps i will try to post it again, later.
shlishi what is stated in shulchan aruch? What you said, or what the Rambam said?
midwesterner they aren’t in their houses, are they? They again, they don’t leave their houses either. Hmmm.
Anyway what i meant, is that when they were alive they didn’t keep this. But i think that you realized this 🙂
Those four words are synonyms, which means that they all mean the same thing, and are thus interchangable.
Rabbi is english.
Reb can sometimes be used for anyone, in more yeshivish circles, but can also be used for some gdolim, such as Reb Moshe
the Rambam says that a women should not leave her house more than once a month.
I have never heard of anyone who keeps this, whether alive or dead.
Someone mentioned earlier that it could be that this would not apply nowadays, for some reason.
btw it seems that the bach that haleivi referred to –
“As for your Stira in Rashi, the Bach has an approach that explains Rashi to hold that it goes by the Begged. Where he says, he might put it on at night, it means, he might use it as a night garment.”
addresses this ‘stirah’, so maybe i wasn’t so far off the mark.
But if you look at rashi on 25:, it is clear that he circumvents this potential contradiction
HaLeiVi now you have me wondering if i was answering anything with that pshat in the first place. Even if it is shev vi’al taaseh, it is still an issur of kilaim.
yitayningwut
The stirah in rashi – i looked at rashi there again. You’re right, its not a stirah. I understood the words “gzeirah mishum ksus lailah” to mean gzeirah that he might forget to take off the sdinin before nightfall, which would imply like the Rambam. But i checked again in rashi, and that is not the way he explains it.
About pajamas – in the first definition that i set out in the earlier post, i said that ksus lailah is anything that is ‘made’ to be worn at night. So then it could be that it doesn’t go by the individual, but rather by the maker.
This doesn’t have to do with hazmanah or lishmah or anything like that. It is just a sevara in the concept of ksus lailah itself.
But you can definitely argue and say that a ksus lailah is something that is worn by night, regardless of what kind of beged it really is.
do not confuse with ‘eat some lice’.
Because that is from another song.
Anyway, if you are being forced to serve Hashem, how much is it really worth already?
I have attended both kinds of yeshivos. The ones with lower pressure had a far higher standard of learning and hasmodah.
The cheshek to learn of the bochurim in the lower pressure yeshivos was so much greater. They really loved to learn. It was not a burden to them, but rather a privelege, like it should be. It was really something amazing.
wow, approved after like two hours of deliberation
josh that was exactly my original question. See the third post on this page, for more detail.
Also, i don’t understand your post. So you do think that the tallis katan worn by the majority of frum jews, in between their shirts and their undershirts, has a function?
(the rest of my serious query was not allowed by the mods, for some reason)
Also, Haleivi, what is the purpose that our tallis katan beged serves (aside to make one sweaty and uncomfortable in many cases)?
josh that was exactly my original question. See the third post on this page, for more detail.
Also, i don’t understand your post. So you do think that the tallis katan worn by the majority of frum jews, in between their shirts and their undershirts, has a function?
Or perhaps you aren’t familiar with this kind of tallis katan at all, and the kind that you wear also serves as an undershirt (which i still don’t know if it would be considered a ‘ksus yoim’ according to the second defintion set out above, and i am inclined to think not) which led you to ask your question.
Also, Haleivi, what is the purpose that our tallis katan beged serves (aside to make one sweaty and uncomfortable in many cases)?
Mods, it is ok to troll a troll. you should know that!
I would happily explain to you how i know for sure that he is trolling, if there would be some method of communicating with you privately.
Anyway, if there is anything that you want to say to me, you can head over to my thread “Question about the “no prying” rule” which has low traffic, and i have been using for this purpose.
Good night, and happy modding!
Hacham im looking forward to blasting it tomorrow, just for you! Doubly as loud, to make up for your loss of music (klal yisroel is all like one) :p
hacham save it for January. That’s when Troll Awards are. Your efforts are being wasted here, im afraid.
(“Bottom line”, “must admit”. LOL classic troll)
But maybe you can be commended for a good attempt at trolling?
Not sure how that works. Anyway, in the future, always keep in mind what i said – invert thrice, spin the dice, catch some mice, eat some rice.
You can put it to a tune, and sing it if you want.
Meanwhile i am looking forward to blasting it tomorrow…. catch ya later!
Hacham, you are forgetting that everything i say is supposed to be inverted thrice. Do that, and see if it helps any.
Good luck, and have a wonderful night!
Hacham –
i said that there is no distinction between the three weeks and the rest of the year. I worded it like this deliberately. Rav Moshe supports this.
If ywn plays music the rest of the year, this means that they for whatever reason do not take on the chumrah of Rav Moshe not to play music the whole year. Thus, it is possible to understand why ywn would continue to play music during the three weeks. Because there is no special issur on music during the three weeks. (again, this might only apply to sefirah. see the tshuvah to be sure)
(btw Hacham, why did you choose a name that is so easily confused with another user. Or were you first?)
ItcheSrulik
i also agree that function is not based on kavanah, and that the beged doesn’t need lishmah. But even so, our tallis katan has no function, since we do not wear them as a shirt, or as an undershirt.
But i’d agree with you that tzitzis that functions as an undershirt has a function, although i do not know if that is the function of a ksus yoim. That would be another shailah.
(i also do not know if there are other reasons why not to wear such a tallis katan. Apparently it is not widespread practice in the ‘yeshiva world’, to wear such a tallis katan. the reason for this, if any, i do not know.)
Chacham – rov haposkim? Rav Moshe in igros moshe says that there is no difference between sefirah and the rest of the year in regards to music.
It is possible that this posek was only talking about sefirah. Whereas all of your mekoros are for bein hametzarim. I can’t remember now.
btw, do you use otzar hachochmah?
Why are people upset about these teens, but not upset about the millions of jews in israel and all over the world, who do not keep shabbos at all? Are they all tinok shenishbah? Does it even matter?
They are jews, but they don’t have shabbos.
Veharayah, it wasn’t only jews who were upset about what happened. The goyim wanted to lynch him in the streets.
On the ball — don’t try to read reasons into halachos of the torah. Being mechalal shabbos is not wrong because there is something “morally wrong” with it. It is wrong because hashem said so, and only He knows why.
The outcry over the recent murder was because of the moral issue, not the halachic one. (X)
Chacham – Just know that there is a respected conteparary posek who argues with that aruch hashulchan.
Chacham i tried to answer, but i think that it got deleted. Oh well.
itchesrulik
You are right, that if our tallis katan would be made to have that function, then it would probably be a ksus yoim. But since our tallis katan has no function, i would say that it is neither a ksus yoim, or a ksus lailah, if you are going with the second definition that i said earlier.
yitayningwut
I touched on this earlier – is it a stirah in rashi, from 25: were ksus lailah goes by time, and elsewhere, where ksus lailah goes by the beged?
itchesrulik
i am pretty sure that the caf hachaim brings it down beshaim the arizal. (although it is possible that it is a machlokes amongst the arizals talmidim)
yitayningwut
nice. Rav Yehudah lishitaso, rayah from tosfos in yevamos, and everything else – amazing.
Quality, not quantity. If a bachur is learning ‘many hours’ a day, but the quality of his learning suffers, it is no good.
Better he should learn less, come to a deeper understanding of torah (though a bikius seder as well couldn’t hurt), and really enjoy his learning, so that he will stick to it his entire life, even after he becomes a “baal habus” (not sure if i spelled that one right :P)
The rest of the day can be spent doing creative/constructive things, that will add to his overall happiness, and make him not even ever consider leaving yiddeshkeit. That’s my take on all this.