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The first step is to recognize there’s a problem (which you just did.) And realize just cause others in the neighborhood aren’t acting right, doesn’t make it any less worse. I think the best approach is education; by reminding them what’s right and what’s wrong.
clearheaded, in my opinion you should start teaching them tznius from a young age, al pi chinuch. So I think its best to avoid that situation, so when they get a bit older, they can understand that it is wrong.
squeak, over HERE you seemed to be against giving much more to Rebbeim…
yitayningwut,
R.Y.H. Henkin is completely unreliable, including in his reporting of his grandfather Hagoen Hatzaddik Harav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin ZT”L’s positions — which he very frequently is completely at odds with himself. (This is aside from the fact he is not accepted for his positions and reliability in general in the Torah world.)
The only thing that footnote then shows is that Harav Schachter shlita said that Rav Soloveitchik zt’l allowed this only in dire circumstances (“of duress”).
Would you be as quick to suggest that if you see (through the glass wall) your frum neighbor in McDonald’s fressing a cheeseburger, that we be assume he has a heter?
Sounds like you’re suggesting that teachers work longer hours for no additional compensation. That is unacceptable, and if someone suggested that for whatever industry you’re in (i.e. computer programmers across the board be put to work another 5 hours a week at their current pay) you’d have close to a revolt and it wouldn’t fly.
Rebbeim are already paid less than most other professions as it is, while almost singlehandedly ensuring the future of our most precious gift — our children.
CY is not a chumra. CS is a heter. CY is l’chatchila.
yitayningwut, There is a difference between that (the example you cited of him going above and beyond the law) and eating Cholov Yisroel. CY is the default position and the l’chatchila. CS is a “heter”.
And anyone can work on himself becoming a Baal Nesfesh, even if he isn’t a Baal Nefesh yet. One thing towards that goal, is to only eat Cholov Yisroel.
It’s absolutely incorrect to say that those who only eat Cholov Yisroel are meikel in something else to compensate. In fact, Reb Moshe himself (amongst others) would only eat CY (Reb Moshe threw up once when someone told him something he just ate may have been CS) and he certainly did not become lax in another area of halacha as a result.
IVSA: Of course you’re allowed to be machmir. Especially if one is striving to be a Baalei Nefesh. Even if one is not yet a Baalei Nefesh, one can strive to be a Baalei Nefesh by acting as Reb Moshe says a Baalei Nefesh should act. Some people may not be a Baalei Nefesh yet… but they certainly can work on themselves becoming a Baalei Nefesh, and by eating Cholov Yisroel would be one step closer towards becoming a Baalei Nefesh.
Health, how does the internet affect sleep (more than say a newspaper)?
Reb Moshe did hold that CY is better. Reb Moshe said anyone who is a baal nefesh should only use CY.
Reb Moshe doesn’t hold they are equivalent, otherwise Reb Moshe wouldn’t have told people who are baalei nefesh to not eat CS.
Saddam was a threat to his own people. Saddam was a threat to regional peace. And Saddam was a threat to U.S. national interests, which was reason for the U.S. to take out Saddam.
Taking out Saddam was achievable. To compare that to taking out the regimes in Russia or China is absurd, as that would likely trigger WWIII.
It was known in the late 90’s that N. Korea possessed nukes. Clinton slept on the job in regards to N. Korea, Iraq, Al Quida, China (thanks to illegal campaign contributions to the Democrats) and just about every other U.S. national interest. His response to terrorism against the U.S. was pathetic, to put it mildly, which gave the terrorists license to think the U.S. could be attacked with impunity on 9/11, which occurred less than 8 months after Clinton left office, after years of terrorist planning.
Bill Clinton bears direct responsibility for 9/11 having occurred.
To rely on government regulation rather than a Jewish eyewitness (as described in the Gemorah) is a “heter”.
According to Reb Moshe, one must determine if they are a baalei nefesh before eating non-CY. If they are not a baalei nefesh they can eat non-CY; if they are a baalei nefesh, Reb Moshe tells them to not eat non-CY.
Cholov Yisroel is a gezeira from the Gemorah.
It makes sense if you present it correctly. “L’chatchila you shouldn’t eat CS, but if you ate it already b’dieved you were not over a lav.”
And I beg to differ with your closing. Au contraire. In fact, it happens to be that the term chumra evolved and now every l’chatchila people call a chumra.
You are mistaken. N. Korea already first possessed several nuclear bombs it developed during the Clinton Administration. Slick Willie was too busy with certain friends to do anything about it.
We know for a fact that Saddam had possesed WMD. In fact Saddam murdered his own countrymen with WMD. Whether he eliminated his WMD before the Iraq war was not something the U.S. could determine with any comfortable degree of certainty without forcibly entering into Iraq, considering that Saddam had previously expelled the U.N. nuclear watchdog from Iraq. As a result, there was every reason and right to be suspicious of Iraq’s WMD program. Saddam was at fault for these suspicions with his expulsion of the IAEA.
Perhaps it is debatable who we should have taken on first, N. Korea or Iraq. Perhaps, since Clinton allowed N. Korea to develop nukes before we did anything, N. Korea was a more difficult situation than Iraq (since it possesed nukes and is within easy reach of Seoul) so we took on Iraq first. This is a consideration for the NSC and the POTUS, not us who aren’t privy to relevant national secrets.
It is completely secondary that Iraq was not involved in 9/11. Iran wasn’t either. Should we do nothing about Iran now (including eliminating from the table the possibility of military action) since Iran wasn’t involved in 9/11?
Also, let us not forget Clinton’s utter failure to respond at all after the terrorists attacked the United States in 2000 with the USS Cole bombing killing 17 U.S. Navy sailors. Unlike in 1998 after the terrorists attacked the 2 U.S. embassies in Africa, when all Clinton could muster was a pre-announced attack on a Sudanese animal pharmaceutical plant for the murder of 12 Americans (and even that was merely to deflect attention from his philandering ways in the news), after the USS Cole Clinton did zilch to the terrorists.
That lack of response by Clinton is what gave Bin Laden the impetus to think he could get away with the 9/11 attacks with impunity and encouraged Al Quida to carry those attacks out directly on U.S. soil.
Well, if the majority of poskim hold CS is a b’dieved, than that still doesn’t make CS treif…
And, furthermore, if someone’s posek doesn’t hold like Rav Moshe’s heter for CS, for him CY is a l’chatchila even in America according to your explanation.
Assuming that’s correct that CY is really a l’chatchila – but becomes a chumra in America… What about Belgium? France? Other countries?
On what basis do you deny it is a l’chatchila? How did you differentiate between a l’chatchila and chumra, and why do you maintain in the case of CY it is not a l’chatchila?
Well said tomim tihye, well said.
Yasher Koach
(From a [non-chinuch] working stiff)
We *should* initiate regime change (with military action if necessary) in N. Korea, if that objective can be achieved. Yes to Iraq and yes to N. Korea. But I think Iraq was a greater priority and it was wise we eliminated Saddam first. America had a greater national interest in ridding the world of the Butcher of Baghdad than in Kim Jung mentally-Ill. Thank You President Bush 43!
And, indeed, President Bush 41 can be faulted for not finishing the job in Iraq when we had a beautiful chance to do so in 1991.
CY is a l’chatchila, not a chumra.
When my wife became a baalas teshuva and took on kosher, she was advised not to inform her parents of this switch and to continue eating treif in their home- i.e.- Kashrus is a big enough deal, but include the parents also?!
We continue to buy only Kosher, but when at my in-laws…as long as it looks kosher. Our children accept that we only eat McDonald’s burger’s and Tyson poultry at Grandpa’s…except once, at the grocery, when my 4-year old asked me to pretend I’m Grandpa…
To be honest I forget offhand what the answer was. I know it is answered. From the best I can recall, I believe it has something to do with Chazal referring to lice in a halachic sense, and some people asking the question assuming they were referring to it in a scientific sense. But again, that is just my vague recollection. I do know the answer is out there.
Btw, there is an answer to the lice question. We already know now they were *not* wrong. You just misunderstood what they said.
wolfishmusing – Just as “we know” they are wrong, you will one day “know” they are right, and what you “knew” (i.e. modern science’s viewpoint that shows “we know” they are wrong) was wrong!
chesedname said…
“all the rabbonim agree that wealth is a lot of money!”
Please name me a few Rabbonim that believe it is only that. Until then there is every reason to assume you are completely WRONG.
“whether wealth is a million or 4 million, doesn’t make a difference, ppl don’t have either one, so the main question still remains.”
But people do have 40, 50, 60 etc. thousand. That is wealth too. Because YOU don’t think so, doesn’t make it not so.
“and not one rav says that wealth means enough to pay your bills, so if that’s your understanding, it’s a daas yachid”
Many Rabbonim say exactly that! Your understanding is a daas tipish.
I agree… if there really are any rabbis that think tv is okay, lets hear who they are so we can see the list of pro-television rabbis (if they even exist) to the long long list of television is treif rabbonim.
I am so happy to see that people care enough about tznius that there is a discussion of Tznius Standards.
Thanks suraschier for starting this discussion and providing that handy guide we can printout as a constant reminded (its really needed!)
“Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and a horrible tempest, this shall be the portion of their cup.”
Tehilim
tizka lmitzvos
can women be part of being msayim mishnayos?
I see Mrs. YW-Moderator-72 is taking a mesechta!
Mrs. YW-Moderator is NOT learning Mishnayos. YW-Moderator-72 is learning the Mishnayos. The Women share in the Mishnayos by encouraging their husbands and sons to learn. – YW MODERATOR-72
Bais Yaakov maydel,
Thanks a lot for starting this. We need all the zchusim we can get in these troubling times.
I wish I knew where to find a group in flatbush. The lack of tznius situation is getting very out of hand. People are blindly following the latest trashy styles. We need constant reminders about this.
And what tzippy says is very true. Very often 4 inches is woefully insufficient. Like Bais Yaakov maydel mentioned when crossing legs or getting into a vehicle it uncovers the knee.
fem:
1. he now confirmed he wrote the post in question.
2. he responded affirmatively to “Are you in Lakewood?” (not do you live in Lakewood) that motzei shabbos immediately following the post.
3. he was using a NJ IP address on the post made on Shabbos.
We cry for his return to the Torah. His posts (most recently: “The orthodoxy we know is not true Judaism.”) make more than abundantly clear he is away from it. The purpose of pointing this out, is lest others fall sway to his blasphemous views.
And btw zevi, I am not thinking “i got him now”, as you assumed. I am crying for you.
Aha zevi, now your trying to weasel yourself out. I mentioned the possibility you were in the far east. Except that you were asked that motzei shabbos if you are in Lakewood. At night you ignored the question, but the next morning you were asked again specifically “Are you in Lakewood?” and you stated unequivocally, “Yes.” Not No, or even: I live in Lakewood but am currently away. But at least you are now moida that you made that post Shabbos morning.
Are you agreeable that we ask the site administrator to check your IP address and see if it originated from a U.S. ISP (and we can even determine which state the IP address was from), when you made that Shabbos morning post 10/25 10:30 am?
“zevi8”,
By golly! Even if they parade around Lakewood in pants and uncovered hair? How judgmental of you!
Well guess what.
When you first posted in in this Torah based forum with your pure apikorsus, making up false sources (as others here have ably pointed out already) to support your krumkeit, I wrote you off as another meshugana who nebech needed an outlet for their anti-Torah ideologies, as some others are known to have come here and have done (and still do) prior to your arrival.
But then last week Motzei Shabbos Kodesh I noticed a rather peculiar thing. You made a post in the PETA thread on early Shabbos morning. About 10:30 Shabbos morning in Lakewood. Considering the anti-Torah gist of every comment you made here (which you demonstrably continue right here), there was a strong chashad you were a Mechallel Shabbos as well. This would confirm that. But I thought, heilige Shabbos. Its hard to imagine a Yid who professes to believe in the Torah being a Mechallel Shabbos Kodesh, a capital offense. So I thought maybe he is in Eretz Yisroel. But checking the zmanim in Eretz Yisroel clearly indicated that it was well within zman Shabbos in Eretz Yisroel, 10:30 AM N.Y. time, when you made the incriminating post. That left only the possibility that perhaps perhaps you were in the far east, like Japan or Australia. We still wanted to give you all the benefit of the doubt. But then with your own words when asked last week, you said you were in the US. (And in fact looking through your comment history, I notice you stated previously as well that you are in Lakewood.)
So without any benefit of doubt left to offer, it is clear as all your comments indicated, with your posting on the heilige Shabbos that aside from being an apikoris, you are a Mechallel Shabbos. The importance of pointing this out, is so that the readers realize that posters of your ilk are not the frum person they claim to be. A without doubt this applies to ‘others’ of your class who post anti-Torah comments (all the while denying it), yet are careful enough not to make one of those posts on the helige Shabbos Kodesh.
zevi,
What about using the internet on Shabbos? Is that also permissible? And is such person still “shomer shabbos”?
zevi?
jewishfeminst, ok so let zevi answer it.
So far zevi is avoiding a simple yes or no to the question if he is fully shomer.
zevi,
I dunno, u tell me why not. All I asked was a question. Why are you being coy about it as if u have something to hide? What does “Why wouldnt i be Shomer Shabbos?” supposed to mean? R u, or r u not fully shomer?
pashutehyid, isn’t Sammy a she?
zevi, r u fully shomer shabbos?