PulsingFlower

Thank you patur.

Refua Shleima!

I was there. It ruined the entire kiddush.

The best thing to add to the serene environment of a bonfire kumzitz is a nice rant. There’s nothing like a good rant to keep people interested. Much better than any ghost story. Keeps the pulse going.

By the way, we should really toast some bananas. Absolutely delish.

RF- As I explained on this thread (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/for-pulsing-flower-to-rant-about-iyun), I am against the newer form of iyun. Ayin sham.

Thank you Patur for this platform.

The way I see things from my corner over here, iyun is way overemphasized. I do not mean to chas veshalom say that iyun is unimportant, but I do believe more emphasis should be placed on mastery of large amounts of material.

In my opinion, this is where the debate of iyun versus bekius comes into play. Bekius stresses the knowledge of large amounts of material, while iyun emphasized the depth of learning. The problem with iyun is that it is much harder to retain the knowledge one acquires due to the difficulty of remembering every diyuk. This is not the case with bekius. Although some gemaras are difficult even at a basic level, most gemaras are able to be grasped in a relatively short time.

I believe that there are two types of iyun. (Rant Ahead)

1) Asking logical questions on a certain peirush and questions on a peirush based on another text. I have nothing against this, and believe it to be very laudable and it gets the brain moving.

2)Trying to understand why each rishon/acharon had to use every step that he did and say each word that he did. This is the type of iyun that I believe is WAY overdone. This style of learning is very recent, only about 200 years old, and I don’t really believe it is emes. I have a very hard time believing the underlying assumption that the Rishonim are malachim* and every word they wrote contains a chidush. As far as I know, no rishonim thought that there predecessors wrote like this, and nor do rishonim think that the gemara writes like this. Rishonim tend to ask logical questions and questions based on other texts, NOT questions about why the gemara/other rishonim used word X.

Also, this approach completely takes away any validity of different writing styles. Do you people think that it is just a coincidence that the Tosfos Harosh often expresses the same idea as the regular tosfos, but more eloquently. I have heard way to many shiurim comparing the way tosfos and tosfos harosh present their shitas. The tosfos harosh is just a better writer than tosfos! There’s nothing wrong with saying that. Stop assuming things about the Rishonim which have no backing save for the past 200 years by Rabbonim who have never met the rishonim. Why in the world is it reasonable to assume that each Rishon has the same personality?

This is what I feel is the problem with the type of iyun prevalent in yeshivas today.

Bekius on the other hand is much easier to remember. I believe this has tremendous value, as the primary purpose of learning should be to lead to maaseh. (i.e aliba d’hilchasa). Knowing where dinim come from is tremendously valuable as well as imperative. One can be a baki on all of hilchos shoelaces and all of the reb chaims in the first perek of baba kama, and still not know the first thing about anything! Bekius ensures that you know at least everything decently well.

Contrary to popular belief, bekius does not only have to consist of gemara and rashi. I also learn tosfos bekius as well as many other mefarshim and sefarim.

*I have heard this quoted multiple times “Rishonim are malachim”.

My Response: Chas V’Shalom! That’s kefira! Hashem did not put malachim on this world. He put people in this world. Nobody is perfect. You think that Rishonim didn’t have yetzer haras?!?!?!

The FrumGuy- I am very pro kiddush clubs as they give members a chance to catch up on the hoc, which they don’t have time for during the rest of the week. They won’t see their friends for a week, but Hashem will still be there after every else finishes davening. It’s more logical to talk with friends and then Hashem, as opposed to just God with no chance for friends.

I was responding to her/his request. S/He didn’t ask for me to tell him about how hashem loves her/him. S/He asked for quotes and pesukim, so that’s what I gave her/him.

???????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ???????.

2 ????????? ??????? ????????????? ??? ??? ???????? ???????????.

3 ???????? ????????? ????????? ???????????? ????? ??????? ??????.

4 ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????? ?????? ???????????.

5 ????????? ??????? ???????? ????? ??????? ???????????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ???????.

6 ???? ???? ??????? ????????????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ??????

A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures; He leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul; He guideth me in straight paths for His name’s sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me; Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies; Thou hast anointed my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; And I shall dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Tehillim 23

Mercaz Hapizza in Beit Shemesh! SO yummy and chewy.

Have you tried divreiChizuk.com?

It is a little hard to be of help, as you haven’t mentioned what type of problems you are having. But believe me, whatever they are, I’ve been through all of them and more. It does take a lot of work to turn one’s mind around, but it is possible.

12 ???????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????? ????????? ???? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????????? ????? ????????? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????????. 13 ???????? ??? ???????? ?????? ????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ????. 14 ??? ??????? ????????? ??????????? ???????? ??????????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????. 15 ??? ???????????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ???????? ??????. 16 ?????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ???????????? ??? ???????? ????. 17 ???? ?????? ?????????? ???? ??????? ?????????? ????????? ?????????? ????? ???????? ????????? ??????????? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????. 18 ?????? ????????? ?????? ??????????? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??????????. 19 ???????????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ???????? ???????? ?????????. 20 ??? ?????? ????????? ??????? ????? ??????? ????? ???????? ?????????? ???????????. 21 ???? ??????????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????????? ????? ??????????? ???????? ?????? ????? ????????. 22 ???????????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ??????????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????????? ??????????? ?????.

Devarim perek yud.

rachman liba bae-hashem wants the heart

Try reading the tochacha in bechukosai. For me that is the strongest chizuk. I can never get through without bursting into tears.

???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ?????

Thy temples are like a pomegranate split open. What is meant by ‘Thy temples’ [rakothek] [rekanim] among thee are full of precepts like a pomegranate.

Berachos 57a

24 ??? ??? ????? 25 ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????”? ????? ????? ???’ (???? ?, ?) ????? ????? ???? ?? ?’ ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? 26 ??? ?? ???”? 27 ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ????? (???? ??, ?) ???? ??? ?????? 28 ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? 29 ???”? (??? ?????? ?, ?) ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? 30 ?”? ???”? 31 ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ????? (?????? ??, ??) ?? ?? ???? ??????

R. Berekiah said: The Congregation of Israel also made a thoughtless request, yet God granted

that request,14 as it is said, And let us know, eagerly strive to know the Lord. His going forth is sure

as the morning: and He shall come to us as the rain.15 The Holy One, blessed be He, said to her

[Israel]: My daughter, thou askest for something16 which at times is desirable and at other times is

not desirable, but I will be unto thee something which is desirable at all times, as it is said, I will be

as dew unto Israel.17 She further made another thoughtless request. She said before Him,: O God, Set

me as a seal upon thy heart,- as a seal upon thine arm.18 Thereupon the Holy One, blessed be He,

replied to her: My daughter, thou askest for something which at times can be seen and at other times

cannot be seen. I, however, will make of thee something which can be seen at all times, as it is said,

Behold I have graven thee upon the palms of My hands.19

taanis 4a

??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ????? 28 ???: ???? ?????? ??? ?????, ??? ?? ???? 29 ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????: ??? 30 ?????, ??????????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? 31 ?? ????? ???????? ???? ????? ?????:

R. Isaac b. Samuel says in the name of Rab: The night has three watches, and at each watch the Holy One, blessed be He, sits and roars like a lion and says: Woe to the children, on account of whose sins I destroyed My house and burnt My temple and exiled them among the nations of the world.

Berachos 3a

Hebrew text is from Sefaria.com. English text is from Soncino Talmud online.

I really feel what you are going through as I have also had similar feelings of emptiness and doubt. Believe me, it will get better. Once I began to realize that everything I do is written down, I found it so hard to look places I shouldn’t etc. Maybe this thought will also help you.

28 ???? ???? ??? 29 ?? ???? ?? 30 ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????? (????? ?, ??) ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? 31 ??? ??? ???? ???? 32 ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ????? (????? ??, ??) ?? ?????? ???? ?? 33 ??? ????? ???? 34 ????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ???? ????? (???? ?, ?) ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?????? 35 ????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????? (?????? ??, ?) ??? ??? ??? ?’ 36 (????? ??, ?) ?? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? 37 ???? ???? ??? (???? 38 ????) ?????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? (??????) ????? ??????? ?? 39 ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? (???) ??????? ?? 40 ???? 41 ????? ????? (???? ??, ?) ??? ?? ??? ????? 42 ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? 43 ??? ?????? ????? ?? ????? (????? ??, ?) ???? ???? ?????

even for the least meritorious act which they do, so too are the wicked rewarded in this world even

for the least meritorious act which they do. Just and right is He:17 They [the Rabbis]
Taanis 11a

Size 0. She needs a shidduch also.

That’s what makes it all the funner.

Have you been to BMG?

Yes. Ayin gemara rosh hashana 13a “kol midas chachomim kach hu”

There once was a man named bob

He liked corn on the cob

He liked it with salt and butter

Ans so he used to mutter

“For corn on the cob, a bank would I rob”

The 99 cent store near me has a big sign that says “Everything 99 cents or more or less”.