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The people who try to pretend that university education is asur ignore the many gedolim over the past millennium who attended university and even earned advanced degrees…
Perhaps, but the people who pretend that college is a chiyuv are ignoring far more gedolim. Let’s agree it is proper under some circumstances.
theprof1:
I think you are contending that “seminaries” are really “teacher’s seminaries”. This will come as a surprise to the vast majority of their students; who do not intend to be teachers.
learn to drive before marriage?
they should learn to cook and clean. and bake.
D9:
Many people learn for many years even without a rich father or father in law. Certainly before they are married, there can be very little harm.
I think you need to let your sons develop into the people they wish to be; much as you developed into the person you wished to become, despite your parents intentions.
Everyone:
I am not saying there is anything wrong with anything. She mentioned she was going to stop wearing denim. I was simply commenting that if there is something wrong with denim, it is not a tznius issue, but a different issue.
A girl should never go so far from her house that there is any reason to drive.
Kashrus. A friend of mine went on an all male one this summer. He was basically only eating pudding. Not all the food was mehadrin, and even when it was, it was often heated in oven without mehadrin supervision.
I take no public position regarding different kashrus agencies in Israel. I am just raising the issue.
I’m more in favor of a gift after a “good try”, but only after the relationship ends. And certainly not a set amount.
AZ: How much should girls aged 17-19 pay?
Are there still “stay at home” moms? I thought there are only working moms and Starbucks moms.
SJS:
I think your approach is the most reasonable so far.
Use low fat mayo, and go easy on it.
But use seichel, if eating salads with lots of dressing prevents you from eating potato chips, it’s worth it.
(And never, ever, eat potato chips. They are perhaps the most unhealthy thing besides being beaten by your parents.)
Reasons to vote for:
Paladino- represents a much closer view to ours on issues of morality, foreign affairs, israel, taxes, safety, terrorism, law and order, religious freedom, immigration, and more.
Cuomo- will give us money, free health care, food stamps, etc.
Sacrilege:
If you marry someone with better middos than you, does that mean they are marrying someone with worse middos than them?
yitayningwut:
Did you find those answers satisfying?
mw13: I don’t know the answer. If I did, I’d have stated it upfront.
smartcookie:
A. if the reason is to work on our middos, it does not follow that we should marry someone with good middos. If anything, someone with bad middos will annoy us more and give us opportunity to work on our middos.
B. That may be the reason G-d created marriage. I don’t think that is why people get married.
Sacrilege:
I think there could be motives which are selfish and are still G rated. If the conversation was not G rated, it would be a big problem as well.
Sacrilege:
For starters, something a little bit more in touch with her human side.
Consider this:
You’re dating and you ask her why she wants to get married. She answers,
“To have kids.”
“To support someone.”
“So I can give everything I have to someone.”
“To do the ultimate kindness.”
Do you even consider another date?
ofcourse:
The most important thing in a tenant is that he will pay on time and not damage the property.
You don’t care if he beats his kids or gets angry at his wife.
The most important thing in a business partner is that he will be good at running the business.
You do care about getting along, but it is certainly not the most important factor. So, for instance if you have two potential business partners, one who scores an “80” on running the business, but a “60” on getting along, you will choose him over the candidate who scores “60” on running the business, and “80” on getting along.
myfriend:
I don’t mean to hijack the thread.
I am specifically maintaining that the question of the purpose of marriage is the most relevant in deciding what to look for. Accordingly, I am rejecting middos as an especially important factor.
BP totty: Do people really get married mainly to have kids? Don’t they get married to help themselves?
mw13: Do people get married in order to be a supportive spouse? Don’t more people get married to gain a supportive spouse? Do older singles “miss” the opportunity to be a supportive spouse?
Hey everyone! Why did you get married? Why do you want to get married?
Can everyone at least agree that is the first question to answer before making your checklist?
I’m trying to post this for the third time.
Shouldn’t we look to the purposes of marriage in determining what factors to look for?
What purpose of marriage does having middos serve?
It may be very helpful towards accomplishing some of the purposes, but should it really be a focal point?
looks
money
looks
money
looks
money
caps for sale!
I don’t usually take Mosherose seriously.
Do any of you think it is worth discussing whether married couples should have a relationship, or if they should only discuss where the towels are?
Also, you start spending most of your time with new kin (i.e. the new spouse), who is also presumably very happy.
Well, maybe not as happy after the weight is gained back.
Can a guy refuse to date unless the girls side agrees to pay all the costs?
That would solve this problem.
methinks:
Reminds me of the guy I know.
He told his wife, “Women, they spend their whole life on a diet. Men, they want to lose weight, they lose weight.” Then he lost weight.
I personally lost 25% of my weight and kept it off.
We have a diet in my family we call the “Tanta diet”. You just eat what you used to but only drink water. Ever.
We say that we don’t know if it works, but it worked for tanta.
Really, publicly criticizing a kiruv organization with no basis for the criticism, and no permission from a posed that it is muttar to criticize, is very likely lashon hara.
First, ask a rav if they are doing something wrong.
If the answer is yes, ask if it is something it is muttar to publicize.
anonym613:
Does your flipping the question back to us imply that you did not have a source for those halachos?
That is fine, but halachos which are not sourced should be identified as such.
I wish we would be able to discuss something on the mental illness spectrum which is less serious than Bipolar, yet more serious than a fear of public speaking.
It is in that gap that most people who are in therapy exist.
By suggesting that anything worse than a fear of public speaking is akin to Bipolar, I think we are contributing to the stigma.
(Well, of course you could argue that the suggestion is that anything less serious than Bipolar is on the level of public speaking, but that is equally absurd.)
Health: I find troubling the assumption that BTs don’t keep halacha and don’t ask shaalos.
This represents a very xenophobic view.
Anonym613:
Excellent.
Now, if these things you describe are indeed assur, then I don’t think anyone who really is a BT would do them. As I previously stated, the term BT is usually used to describe someone who keeps halacha.
I am really not convinced that all of them are assur.
1. You are allowed to attend a conservative wedding.
2. I don’t know if you can attend an intermarriage, (but again, let’s assume the BT will follow halacha).
3. One cannot daven in a conservative temple, but BTs don’t attend their non-frum family’s temple.
4. One is allowed to eat kosher food in a house where not kosher food is eaten.
5. I am not aware that it is assur to invite a relative to a simcha if they will dress untznius. In any event, the relatives are usually willing to “do in Rome”.
Why do you assume that BTs will do things which are assur?
What do you picture when you think BT?
I am finding this discussion somewhat troubling.
they can’t afford to live in brooklyn.
What about this thread is not lashon hara?
anonym613:
If you are talking about what the family does, how can you ask that question?
If my siblings will not accept not to attend a conservative shul, why should someone want to marry me? I don’t understand.
Maybe you can clarify your comment.
anonym613:
Are we talking about a BT or someone who is thinking about becoming one?
BTs don’t eat non kosher. They follow halacha.
aries:
I admire your son’s good sense.
Although it is obvious, I think it is important to spell out that you discussed it with your son, and these were his instructions.
All too often, parents represent their own wishes as those of their child’s.
The shidduchim crisis isn’t man-made, it’s real. But the basis for the crisis is man-made, and woman-made. The girls and boys who get engaged “on-time” are the ones who are reasonable and aren’t looking for a spouse with a shopping list of demands. The majority of our children do get married without major problems. Those who end up falling into the “crisis” are the ones who are etched in stone demanders of perfection.
This assertion is so absurd, I don’t think anyone will even find it hurtful.
If you’d said “some”, or even “many”, there could be a reasonable discussion on the merits.
I just think its ridiculous to complain about a “crisis” that is man-made.
Man made? I don’t think its fair to call it man made. People’s weight is controlled by many factors, and some of them are really out of one’s realm.
aries:
I am getting confused. Attraction of the type I thought we were talking about, cannot be changed to an attraction to something else other than what we are talking about. (Yes, I am being vague to get through the moderators)
If you do not think that attraction is necessary, we can debate that.
it is yeshivish to say video instead of movie.
chaimss:
I don’t think anyone is advocating putting it on your resume, or sending it along with your information like the name of your shul.
We are discussing whether you should mention it before you get engaged, or just pretend it doesn’t exist.
seriously, there is no way I am reading that whole post.
I’m sure it’s all good.
But since you brought up vegetarianism, I’ll throw in my thoughts on that.
Let’s say you watch a shechita and then you don’t want to eat meat that night, are you an apikores?
Let’s say you don’t want to shecht cows because it bothers you, are you an apikores?
Let’s say you don’t want to stone the mekoshesh eitzim because it bothers you, are you an apikores?
Let’s say you don’t want to eat meat because it bothers you, are you an apikores?
I’d say that as long as you don’t make it into a “value”, meaning you aren’t judging on it’s being wrong, you’re ok.
paschabchochma:
Well, I hope that all the posters who are ok with lying to your potential spouse are joking.
I don’t even know why you would want to. Do you really want to marry someone who you think would reject you if they really knew about you?
I’d rather not get married.
We’re talking about looks?
Well, you should certainly tell the guy before you get engaged if you have been lying about your looks.
I know someone who found out after 20 years and 10 children that his wife was actually fat. He divorced her on the spot. To be fair, he had been lying about his beer belly, kugel lips, and receded hairline (not to mention his age- he was 45!).
Josh31:
Eruvin 22a:
(My translation) Like the case of R’ Adda bar Ahava, he was going to the house of Rav. His wife said to him, “What shall I do regarding [feeding] your children?”. He said to her, “Are there no more vegetables in the swamp?”.
Box O’:
In most yeshivos, all you imbibe from shiur is Torah. There are very few roshei yeshiva who speak hashkafa during shiur.
To quote a certain well known mashgiach, “Why don’t we tell them? BECAUSE THEY DON’T LISTEN!”
I am trying to find more time to do all the things I need to do.
Looks like we may be able to make a deal.