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But today is not negative 40 days in the omer
Well, wouldn’t you tell her if she were wearing shaatnez?
What if you knew she was wearing shaatnez but it was an article of clothing which is not tznius to talk about?
All good questions. I don’t know the answer.
I would probably tell her if it was shaatnez. I probably wouldn’t if it was a tznius issue.
We’ll not make fun of bpt.
But shrek: As much as you could confuse Lakewood and Telse since they both standardly wear white shirts.
I like fish also.
I caught a fish.
A salmon.
In Alaska.
In a little stream.
On my fishing rod.
That I bought in Wal-Mart.
And I ate one of the eggs.
It was slimy.
And I ate the fish.
It was not as slimy.
But it was still fish.
I almost caught another one.
In the Bay.
But it broke the line.
And got away.
The second one was a silver.
Salmon.
But I caught some rockfish.
And ate them.
it’s just taking tznius to the logical extreme…
Rant: Tznius is a balance, it is not a black and white question. There is no logical extreme of tznius, since everything depends on the cost.
Of course it is more tznius to wear a burka. We don’t do it because the incremental cost to us does not balance the incremental benefit.
Of course it is more tznius not to wear a wedding dress. We do it anyway because it is important.
(As far as this issue, yes it happened, and they were condemned by all the gedolim.)
It is like aries says.
Since the boys get much more calls, the girls usually say yes after the boy does. But when a girl says yes first, she usually gets a no in response.
So people get hurt when you call the girl first.
Also, the boys often don’t get hurt. They just cross the name off and move on to the next one. There are always more (they think).
the one who studied at Harvard can, if he wants to, work in a job where he only has to work 25 hours a week
Which degree are we talking about that you can work 25 hours a week? Most jobs work closer to 25 hours a day.
I was always makpid to drink beer on dates, because the fountain sodas use unfiltered water.
I got around the problem Daas is raising by snorting it through my nose.
Why should I advise him based on what *I* want? I should advise him to do what is right for him and his family, whether it be Brisk or Harvard or anywhere else. What *I* want and what *I* would prefer is really irrelevant.
Amen brother.
If the parents aren’t encouraging the kids to pick the girls clothes, I’ll eat my hat.
I’d rather have a mentsch from Harvard than a rotten person from Brisk.
I’d also rather have a mentsch from Brisk than a rotten person from Harvard.
And if the choice is between two people who are both mentsches, one of whom went to Harvard and the other to Brisk, then my choice would be which ever one my daughter wants.
Well, I’d rather have the one my daughter wanted, even if it is the rotten person from Harvard.
It sounds like you are waiting for someone to say it is assur to own a dog.
I don’t know why you want that.
But I’ll humor you.
It is assur to own a dog. If you see a jew with a dog, you can’t eat at their house or drink their wine, or give them an aliya, or bury them in a jewish cemetery.
You have to bury them in a dog cemetery.
Depends who you are and who he is.
If you’d be ok with bowling, and ok with beer at bowling, you should be ok with this.
Bar Shattya is having a good Lag Baomer. He apparently has drunk a full Chai Rotel.
chaplaintzvi:
Do you think this is productive for you?
Do you think this is a good thing to teach your daughter?
Why don’t you just stop being so bitter, accept that other people can have valid opinions, even about things that will make them seem frummer than you, and enjoy that your daughter is graduating.
Your daughter will only graduate from high school once. It is a special time for her. You shouldn’t ruin it by getting mad at the school.
Tell her you are proud. Tell her how much you’d love to be there. Make a party for her. Maybe go out for pizza. Buy her a certificate to have her nails done or something.
Really. This is not a conspiracy. This is a very valid opinion. Look over my past posts; I am not a tznius radical. Or any sort of radical.
You want proof beyond a shadow of doubt? Who is being unreasonable here?
Maybe the principal is doing it to be frummer than thou. Who knows. Maybe you are protesting it to be righter than thou.
But so what. This is the standard they adopted, it isn’t crazy, live with it.
gefen: Don’t tell me about chutzpa. When you know a tenth of the torah I know, we can discuss chutzpa. I’m not your daughter.
Itche: Don’t join them. Like I said before, we shouldn’t go around trying to fit our rants into every problem facing our community.
Oh yes. Kids are going off the derech because their teachers misrepresent the obligation of a husband to support his wife as optional.
feif:
You should take that back.
Chazal did institute rules of yichud, but that doesn’t mean that everything which doesn’t violate a specific halacha is proper and lechatchila.
You know that.
It is probably because of whatever you would like changed in our communities.
That way, you can have a moral imperative to force your changes on everyone.
I saw that. Hee Hee Hee
Hmmm. It was illustrative.
Ok, agreed.
I just looked back at all my posts on this thread, and I think they are quite reasonable.
Hi, I am the author of Innocent Deceptions and Desperate Deceptions
So am I. :-))
Popa – I’ve decided to ignore you.
Please tell me you’re my Mother-in-law. :-))
Hmmm. I don’t particularly appreciate being lumped with other posters whose comments I take no responsibility for.
1) Our hashkafos ARE the same as that of our daughters’ school! Please do not be so quick to condemn us. Yes there are areas in which we disagree. That doesn’t mean we are so different. Our children are very careful about Tznius, lashon hara etc. They are B”H very much into their frumkeit. They NEVER mingle with the opposite gender!
So please do not suggest we send our children to MO schools. That is quite different from our hashkafos!!!
That’s nice. I don’t think you should send your kids to an MO school. Why should you punish your kids for your own mishigas?
2) WE REPEAT – IN CASE YOU MISSED IT THE FIRST FEW TIMES WE MENTIONED IT: The school did not have this graduation rule when our girls started there. In fact this is the first one of our daughters whose graduation is affected by this.
Also nice. So your contention is that a school is always wrong if they change any rule and don’t exempt current students.
3) I myself went to a very frum school in Brooklyn and our fathers were invited to the graduation. I have also spoken to friends who’s children are in different FRUM (not MO) schools here and in NY, NJ etc. and fathers do come to the graduations.
Not all very frum schools have the same rules. Why don’t you find a school that has more of the rules you like. Actually, why don’t you find a school that has education you like and just manage with the other stuff.
4) In fact there was a very well known Rav (I will not mention his name because I don’t want any loshon hara to start) who would probably not have had a problem with this. At the graduations from his yeshiva, there were a few times when women spoke. There was also mixed seating at their banquets. NO – THEY WERE NOT MO! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A VERY FRUM RIGHT WING GROUP.
Oh. So all school can’t have any standards which conflict with this rav’s.
5) I feel like we are being attacked by certain posters on here who obviously don’t even know us. But yet they are so ready to judge us and tell us where to send our kids. The CR is a place to express opinions – not attack or be attacked.
Hmmm. Valid point. You shouldn’t feel attacked on the CR. Sorry if I seem attacking.
But, you seem to feel attacked by the opinions, not by the tone. So no apology. “The CR is a place to express opinions…”
Look, the only point I recall making on this thread is that the schools standard is a valid opinion, which I can understand, and I think anyone should be able to understand.
I don’t think you can have a taana on the school for adopting a standard. If you don’t like it, switch schools. (No don’t, it isn’t your kids fault, like I said before.)
So yes, I am judging you. I think you are making a big deal out of nothing, and not being respectful towards other people’s standards in tznius. Tell your daughter you wish you could be there but you appreciate the schools stand on tznius. Then make a party for her that afternoon or afterward.
I know plenty of jews who have dogs.
Maybe you meant to ask why yeshivish jews often don’t have dogs. Probably because they have a lot of kids, and that takes up all the affection they would have wanted to give to a BLAZED DOG
Mods: Can you take my post down.
Not 150, 130.
And bottom line, I never had any problem because of it. Must be the bulging muscles. Or the muscle car.
(Is that your best punch? Originality? Do better.)
Yes, I suppose I did.
I really don’t mean to engage in schadenfreude,
It depends. If schadenfreude means using big foreign words that nobody knows, then you probably do mean to engage in it. :-))
I don’t know.
But on the topic of bonfires, I have a beef. I’m even opening a new thread to rant it.
Even if you don’t get to the goal, you should aim to reach as close as possible.
I was demonstrating that even you do not believe in that goal. And I am correct.
That is precisely why you should accept that an eidel yid dresses eidel. Even if you can’t “cite” a Chapter and Verse in S”A that mandates being eidel.
That is apikorsus. We don’t read our own morality into the torah.
Itche: Precisely.
No, because when I asked why we should dress like royalty, the only answer is that we are children of Hashem and should dress the part.
Well, how do children of Hashem dress? Did any chazal ever say that children of Hashem dress like royalty? I think not.
And do you really think we should dress like royalty? No, you don’t think so. You think we should wear your arbitrary dress code, which admittedly is more refined than ordinary dress, but is not even close to royalty.
Don’t make the torah into your source that you call upon whenever you want to justify what you want to do. Just do what the torah says to do.
Firstly, there was no case made. It was simply asserted.
Secondly, there was certainly no case made that you should instruct kids that they must dress a certain way, and call people who don’t “trashy”, and look down on them- which you do. (And be ???? on baal tosif by pretending it is halacha)
Ok, who said that we should dress like royalty?
Where are you getting that idea from?
One would think if it was important it might show up in at least one or two seforim.
If you want to loook like a lowlife that is fine, no one is stopping you.
Wearing denim skirts does not make one look like a lowlife, and if you look at people who do like lowlifes, you need a major attitude adjustment.
cucumber:
We’re supposed to dress like royalty? Who told you that?
Show me a source.
they are what the average American high school and college student wears all the time
Average is not lower class. Average is normal.
I’d love for you to sit in Fashion Marketing 101
That’s not what the course is called, troll.
Ok, here is the rant:
(adorable, I always like what you write, and it is a nice story, but I am going to blast it.)
Torah learning is hard. It is. Ask anyone.
I don’t think it is helpful to tell people who are struggling to do what is right, that they should be finding it easy. It cheapens what they are doing to be told it is easy.
I’m sure Edmund Hillary was well aware that what he was doing was really hard. And if you wanted to help someone climb Everest, you would tell them how hard it was going to be.
And learning torah is just not like climbing Everest. You don’t always feels that accomplished. It isn’t always that rewarding. Sometimes it is just a drag. Maybe that’s because we’re americans, maybe it is because we eat pizza, maybe its because of anything. But it isn’t our fault.
We were born and brought up this way. Our ????? in life is to make ourselves better than how we started, so the measuring point is from where we started. And this is where we started.
So I’m not very inspired when told that I should enjoy torah more than I do. Or that I’m “sick” if I don’t like torah.
Women: You should assume anything you were taught in seminary about learning is false. Because it usually is. The gra says that women have a taava for pritzus as strong as men have for bittul torah.
I don’t pretend to understand what you deal with as far as tznius (not to say I don’t have opinions about what is tznius).
Isn’t that the implication of the story?