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pba – “Really?” Yes
Do you care to defend that position? It sounds like right ????? to me.
whatever helps their self-image and allows them to feel more fulfilled in their service of Hashem.
Well, that’s a novel concept in halacha.
hey popa it sounds the same like my house!!! thats the way it REALLY goes!!!
No, Bar shattya and Sheep without a spleen are.
This is how we played in my house.
Nun- get nothing
Gimmel- get all
Hey- get half
Shin- Mess up the game and throw all the dreidels and coins everywhere.
Really? I think she has a real tayna even if they only negligently came late. When you tell someone you will do something, and they are relying on you- you make it your business to do it.
The music is a bit different. It sort of depends on what the norms are, what they were expecting, and what she was expecting. In any event, I think the main point here was the lateness, not the music.
Real-Brisker:
I disagree with you. I think mytake has a very valid complaint against the girls, and would have been right to chew them out.
Chessed is completely optional, but once you agree to do it, and the other person relies on you, it is an obligation. If they had simply refused to do it, or told Mytake they would be an hour and a half late, Mytake could have taken a cab or made other arrangements.
The key is that Mytake acted in reliance on them and foreclosed other options. Asking for what you were promised is not being ungrateful at all.
We always gambled on chanuka. We lit lots of oil lamps, close together, on tables covered in oil and flammable stuff. And left them unattended.
And then we gambled that the house or yeshiva wouldn’t burn down.
I’m not sure why you equate being materialistic with being greedy. I don’t think they are the same thing.
passfan:
I haven’t read Rabbi Twerski’s objection. But from yidperiod’s post, it sounded like he was objecting to public discussion of sexual issues. Which has nothing to do with providing legitimization, since there is nothing illegitimate about sex.
Besides, if the public gets the impression of legitimization when it wasn’t intended, that is not a substantive issue- that is external.
(Sorry about the bluntness. I don’t want to be misunderstood.)
yidperiod:
I see.
Now, I’d just like to point out, that both of those reasons are sort of “external” reasons. Meaning, that they don’t speak to the substantive issue, but whether it was a bad idea for a different reason.
I don’t know. Why don’t you tell me what their objections were, and then maybe I’ll understand.
I read the transcript of the event. I have no objections. (Maybe I missed something.)
I agree with mytake.
If you don’t offer to do chessed, fine. But once you do offer, and someone acts in reliance on your offer (like by not calling a cab, and instead waiting for you), you owe it to them to do it, and do it right.
I am completely serious.
I suspect American Express does this specifically because their merchant fees are higher than other cards, and this is the sort of thing that convinces small businesses to accept their cards. This logic really doesn’t apply to Yeshivas.
Maybe. That sounds pretty far-fetched though, that a one time deal will make businesses accept their card. It sounds even more far-fetched that you expect yeshivos to have to interpret that intent.
Even if that’s wrong, and we’re talking about a company, so there’s no reason to think that logic is any more wrong or right than any other, it’s really not for the Yeshiva to decide what American Express’ intention is.
I’m with you there. I don’t think anybody needs to care about what their intent in this was. We just need to follow the rules they set up.
This program was clearly meant to support small businesses. Yeshivas are not small businesses.
But you just said “it’s really not for the Yeshiva to decide what American Express’ intention is.”
See what I mean?
A yeshiva telling American Express that it is a small business is dishonest.
I don’t believe they told them they were small businesses. Nothing was hidden here. There was no hiding the ball- it was all out in the open.
American Express knows what each vendor is, and that is how they didn’t allow it to apply to chain stores. They apparently allowed it to apply to non-profits.
This thread is much ado about nothing.
If I found out that they were asking appropriate rabbonim, then I couldn’t criticize their decision, because I can’t ask more of them than to ask appropriate rabbonim.
I would still think it is not my hashkafa to do what they do.
It is unscrupulous and borders on stealing. the whole point of the program was to spur small business and the economy. Instead yeshivas and Tzedakas classed themselves as small businesses so that they would qualify when you “purchased” and item from them.
I disagree.
I think the point was to get people to use their American Express cards. And for people to think that American Express was a “good” company.
Besides, it really doesn’t make a difference what the point was. They said we would get a statement balance if we swiped the card at a classified small business. We did so, and got the statement balance. We have no obligation to try to fit into their intentions.
sof davar: The people who criticize are usually specifically criticizing the gedolim, to whom they impute all sorts of things. These issues aren’t remotely related.
apushatayid:
I think we are referring to different types of shadchanim.
HaLeivi:
The halachos do change with the circumstances, according to the rules set out in halacha. I’m not advocating any particular din, I happen to not know these halachos very well.
I was just saying that the halacha is the only thing that matters, and not some emotional argument. That’s it.
I’m pretty sure we agree.
No.
Or if it is, it certainly is not relevant to whether I trust gedolim or not.
I don’t know that any rav approves what they do.
No shadchan ever quoted me a fee. It would have been better if they had, because then I could have bargained.
Imagine if a shadchan tells me her fee. I would say, forget it. I’m only going out if its for free. And she would say yes, since she can just double the fee on the girls.
I would be happy. AZ would be happy. The CR would be sad.
So this question has two premises which I do not concur in.
Premise A. Oorah is run by people whom I consider rabbonim of mine that I need to be mevatel daas to.
Premise B. That I have not discussed this with any of my rabbonim.
Like it says in Atlas Shrugged: There are no contradictions. When you see an apparent contradiction, check your premises.
Look, I think some of the things they do is a bit odd at best. I don’t think it passuls the whole organization. I definitely don’t think it is a good idea to go forward with a conversation about what they do. I do think they should have some frank discussions with their rabbinic advisers, and perhaps introduce a certain NY Post article and this video as exhibits.
passfan: I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry.
passfan:
You are misunderstanding. I am saying that there is only such a requirement if it is indeed written in halacha. But that if there isn’t, then there is no such requirement. That’s it.
As far as when it is and isn’t required, I don’t really know.
The point is, that these horror stories prove nothing. If the hashgacha is following halacha, it doesn’t really matter whether you find a problem one day. Because you were following halacha, and that’s what G-d wants us to do.
Actually I’m just pointing out that the position that the OP claims that his Rav holds of has ramifications further than just dairy products.
And I’m just pointing out that you are incorrect about that. See, we’re both just pointing out.
I wouldn’t trust anyone that gave a hechsher on chalav akum mamish. There is a big difference between not using a kula and not accepting its existance.
Nice. So you are making up your own halachos about whom you trust as kosher for eidus.
I don’t think I would trust your kashrus- I only trust people who follow actual shittos, not people make up whatever floats their boat.
For my family, I think it is appropriate. If someone else wants to be more machmir than me, I can understand that. (Unless it is one of my siblings- then I bite off their head.)
He holds OU-D is cholov akum mamish.
In that case how can you trust the OU for anything?
That’s silly. Just because you disagree on a specific halacha, doesn’t mean you don’t trust them. Beis Hillel and Beis Shammai used to tell each other which people were mamzerim or pagum according to each other’s halacha.
popa, If when following halacha there still remains a vulnerability where people are known to be beating the system on kashrus matters, nothing should be done?
Correct. That is what halacha is. (Of course, if the known facts have halachic significance, it changes the halacha. But raw emotion is not halachicly significant.)
I don’t think the present system is 100% but it’s close enough.
More accurately, I would say the present system follows the halacha, so it is per se enough.
Once upon a time in a little town called Monsey, where everyone sanctimoniously didn’t trust the kashrus of the big national hashgachos that they use out of town…
How does this underscore the severity of kashrus?
I think its about a 1000 from each side.
I don’t think “docile” is a necessarily a positive attribute for adults
Agreed. Nor for children.
frumnotyeshivish:
I also include, for your enjoyment, a graph of the salary distribution for entry level legal positions. This graph shows that the salaries are bundled in two groups: One group makes 160, and the other group makes 40-65. There is basically nothing in between.
The consequence of this, is that if you are not in the 160 group, even if you just miss it, you are down by 40-65.
Feif: I apologize for going ape on you. I usually like what you say.
And I even agree with you, this is an example of exactly the way it should be done. Ask the rabbi, then go public. Police, prosecutors, the whole thing.
Looking back at your post, I’m not even sure you meant to imply what I was criticizing. So, sorry about that, if you didn’t.
The Agudah’s position that only rabonim are quailfied to determine raglayim l’davar is fatally flawed. One, because most rabanim who are not in chinuch do not have the training, experience or insight to make an informed decision, two, mandated reporters generally do have the required knowledge, experience and insight, and three, raglayim l’davar is not a concept that is too technical for lay people to determine.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Assuming, for purposes of this discussion, that you care about following halacha.
The question of when you can be moser someone is a halacha shaila. Of course, anyone can decide how an action fits into halacha by themselves (I do so every time I decide what bracha to make on a food), but people who care about halacha will consult with a halachic expert when they don’t know the halacha well enough to decide.
I personally don’t know these halachos well enough to decide. I don’t think you do either. I don’t think the administration of a school generally does either. Frankly, I have no idea what “raglaim l’davar” even means. (And, as I recall, most posters who seem to be such experts now, were complaining about just that- that they didn’t know what it meant- when it was first promulgated.)
And even if you arrogantly think you can decide it, maybe you should have just a tad of concern that you might be getting it wrong, before you go and ruin someone’s life and family.
(But soliek is correct- the thing that got me going here is the tone of this thread.)
Frumnotyeshivish:
That sounds closer. 35% (1/3) are making 75k. Another 12% have some law firm job.
I still don’t believe those numbers. There is no way over 10% of the class is getting 160 jobs post-2009. My friend knows lots of people, and knows of only 3 who have those jobs for this summer. Those numbers sound more like Fordham (also not worth attending except maybe on full scholarship.)
But, even if those numbers are true, you need to consider that against the debt these students are taking out. If you borrow 150 to go to school, and walk out making 75, that is not a good deal. And those numbers are the numbers only for the 47% who are getting jobs- what about the other half of the class?
RE: the scholarships. They are loose with them, but they attach strong conditions of grades. The way the grading system works, it is impossible for everyone to keep their scholarships.
I don’t know how you can attend a school for 3 years and pay 150 if there is even a 20% chance of not getting a job that will pay enough to make it worth it. Let alone a school with 80% chance of that.
If you are considering law school, I strongly urge you to read the site I mentioned earlier.
I can’t figure out if you’re calling me a liar. So I’ll let it pass.
Those numbers are a lie. There are not 25% of St. Johns graduates making 160. And there are certainly not 75% of them making 75. I know several people there, and one of them told me he is aware of only three people in his class who have a summer associate position for this coming summer.
There are only a few thousand biglaw jobs in the country every year. And they are not going to St. Johns grads. They are going to the top half of the class in the top 14 law schools, and the top 10% of the next 30 or so schools.
Sorry, that is just the way it is. Go to a website like top-law-schools dot com, and they will explain it well.
frumnotyeshivish:
In the US every year, 45,000 people graduate law school, and there are 30,000 entry level jobs available.
Most of those jobs pay 40-60k, but still require the same hours that the big firms do.
You do the math.
The Beacon thing says nothing about YU. Everyone knows that there are non-frum people at YU. What does someone posting that in a story add that we didn’t already know?
Because the author identified herself as Modern Orthodox.
I know a guy who insisted that girls get this surgery before he would date them. I think that’s extreme.
I think you need to go get help from a professional. It is completely confidential, and you will be able to do it without anyone knowing.
Just chop if off with a cleaver over the kitchen sink.
See Mommy! See how Daddy gives me a lolly pop when he takes me shopping! Daddy is such a better parent than you!
That is what you all sound like. A bunch of 2 year olds deciding you know better than your parents.
Not even like teenagers. Teenagers at least have some knowledge of the subject matter. Two year olds.
Get a life.