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PBA: Yeah, but what if their way of life comes at the cost of my life? That’s what I strongly disagree with. It’s okay for you to say that you’ll follow your Poskim and Hashem will take care of you. But about when you following your Poskim is taking away from someone else?
??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??
I’d like you to answer that question, please. What do you think I would answer.
You see Bikur Cholim, the secular see Back of the Bus and the Zip Lock bag
Thank you zdad. As you can see, the issues are not just Back of the Bus, which is a chareidi thing, but also Zip Lock bag, which is plain simple halacha which any frum jew needs to do.
Chassidish customs are to build respect for women? How so? Please explain how the following build respect:
Women not allowed to be out on the streets at night.
Woman only allowed to ride in the back of the bus.
When there are guests over, the women must eat in the kitchen instead of at the table with their family.
Women are not allowed to drive.
Well Feif, the question was not addressed to me, but I’d like to respond.
Before I do though, I’d like you to first answer the questions I posed to your way of life earlier.
You claim to respect women? Please explain how the following build respect:
Women are not allowed to show any of the skin of their torso in front of men.
Women are not allowed to touch men.
Women are not allowed to sit with men in shul.
Women are not accepted as witnesses.
Women are not acceptable as judges.
Women are considered unclean for half the month.
Women are not allowed to sing in front of men.
Women are not able to divorce their husband unilaterally, but can be divorced unilaterally.
Women are “purchased” by their husband for gold.
Women do not count for a minyan.
Women whose husbands die childless are allowed to be married by their brother in law unilaterally, and are held hostage until he decides one way or the other unilaterally.
I am not just trying to shtuch you here. I am trying to show you that we only differ in degree, not in kind. I am trying to show you that you cannot approach this question with Western liberal morals, since those morals would clearly cause you to reject your own way as well.
While we’re at it, we can discuss other ways in which you need to reject Judaism if you come from an approach of Western liberal morals. Like how a yids life is worth more than a goy.
Also, if anything, this book disproves your point. She says it did not bother her to sit in the back of the bus. She does not say in the article that she felt inferior to men, or that men degraded her for being female.
To all of you who are against organ donation, be true to yourselves, if a loved one was in need of an organ donation would you not accept it?
What kind of question is that? If I needed an organ, I would follow the halacha there also. Whatever the halacha is. (I’m pretty sure most poskim hold you can accept an organ, but I don’t know that.)
And if you think I would take the organ even if it was against halacha, does that mean I should also break halacha now?
Look, if your rav says it is muttar, I commend you for following him and doing it. I am aware of very learned poskim who do hold it is muttar. But I cannot understand why you think it is wrong for me to follow the majority of poskim–including my poskim–who say it is assur. You really should have a little more respect for other people, and their way of life (and death).
The fact is that some people are so eager to appear more and more frum that they lose sight of the big picture. Some of these chumros have no real basis, and they create a huge chillul Hashem, and drive people off the derech.
I don’t really feel like talking about chumros again, but I do want to make this point.
I don’t think you should be jumping on this chumros make us look bad bandwagon. The things that you do make us look just as bad. The MO community is not at all insulated from modern critique that they discriminate and hide women.
For example:
You require women to dress modestly, to always cover their torso, to not go swimming in public, etc. Seems to me that if your men have a problem, they should deal with it themselves.
You don’t allow your women to be witnesses in court, or to be judges in court. Seems to me that you are locking women out of the authority and communal leadership.
You don’t allow women to divorce their husbands, a man marries a woman by “buying” her. Seems to me like you think men own their wives.
You consider a woman to be dirty and unclean for half the month, you say you aren’t allowed to touch women. Seems to me like you think women are an underclass of “untouchables”.
You see what I mean? The goyim have plenty enough to make fun of which is actual halacha. Don’t think that it is just our chumrah’s that they look down on- it’s you also. The only reason they are focusing on chareidim recently, is because the other frum people are calling attention to it.
“First they came for the chareidim, but I did not care, because I was not chareidi.” Just look at what’s going on in the army in Israel, they’re coming for you.
DY: That’s precisely what I mean. Thanks for elaborating it.
I haven’t read the book- just the article in the post. (Which I don’t know why this link was allowed).
But, I think it reflects rather positively on us. She very notably doesn’t say anything bad about the community. She doesn’t say that she felt abused or made inferior by the men in her life. She doesn’t say that it was repressive or controlling.
She was able to leave, and even get custody of her kid, and nobody bothered her. She sees her ex to share the kid, and he doesn’t spit on her.
She is a bit scared about publishing the book- but we have no idea if those fears have any basis, nor does she.
I’m feelin’ pretty good to be frum today.
Ha. All 732 calls go to voice mail – I don’t know anyone in Lakewood, so they’re always robocalls.
I don’t know anyone outside lakewood.
Saying Hashem can heal is nonsense
Should one not take Medicine, because HASHEM CAN HEAL?
Are you talking to me? I’m not exactly sure how you are responding.
All I said was that we should follow halacha, and not worry about the consequences, because the same G-d who told us to follow halacha also runs the world, He can work it out for us however He wants.
If you disagree with that, there is nothing more I can say. I don’t like to debate the ikarim of Judaism, on this site. (On other sites, I do. I get a kick out of making fools of people. Especially since they think they are so intellectual by virtue of being anti-frum, and that we are simpletons. Oh, I get such nice kicks. But I’m nice on this site.)
There is a valid chassidish opinion to do this. The theory is that the shiur is based on what is a normal chashuv amount to drink. With whiskey, that is the normal amount to drink.
However, litvaks should not do this.
“I am sure Hashem has enough kidneys in his bank account for me.”
Tell that to the scores of Yidden who have been anxiously waiting for many months and longer for a compatible kidney donor. Time is running out for them.
What is that supposed to mean?
Hashem also has enough ability to heal them outright, and doesn’t do so.
My point was that if we aren’t suppose to donate organs, then we can safely assume that Hashem isn’t going to cause more of us to die for that. We can safely assume Hashem runs the world and can make those who He wants to live, live; and those who He wants to die, die; regardless of whether we decide to donate organs.
I am confident that Hashem will not punish me for listening to my rebbeim and rov poskim on this matter. I am sure Hashem has enough kidneys in his bank account for me.
PBA: I have spoken personally to many leading Poskim about this. I feel it is a tremendous Pikuach Nefesh and that any Posek who refuses to let people do this is Machshil es Harabbim and Gorem Sakanas Nefashos for many Jews, especially those in Eretz Yisrael where European countries won’t send organs because a very high percentage of Israelis (mostly the communities whose Rabbis won’t let them donate organs) refuse to be organ donors.
Sam: I am going to blast you. It doesn’t mean I don’t respect you; it just means I’d like to impress you with how wrong you are here.
I get that some poskim hold it is muttar, and even a mitzva. And that according to those poskim it is sakanas nefashos perhaps.
That does not mean that the rov poskim who hold it is assur are being machshil people. This is a valid machlokes- you will not find poskim holding that the other side is illegitimate, as you make it out to be.
You really should have more respect for poskim who disagree with poskim who you agree with. Particularly since your agreement or disagreement is really just a matter of liking the outcome in the case. (Sorry, I know you know a lot of torah, but you are not competent to take sides in this, and that is just how it is.)
Organ donations after death should be a Chiyuv because of Pikuach Nefesh. And in a case where there is no Jew in need of a kidney or lung, it is still a Chiyuv of Pikuach Nefesh Mishum Eivah. Even now, many countries won’t send organs to Israel because too many Jews aren’t donors. It’s a complete Pikuach Nefesh. Hands down.
Hands down, huh?
Why would you make a statement like that, when you know very well that most poskim hold you should not?
My friends and I used to prank call his show. Is that funny or mean?
Yeah, shut up. I don’t care what you think it’s mean.
Seems to me that most poskim hold it is assur, but that there are some who hold it is muttar. I have seen a “halachic organ donor” something or another. But my rebbeim never said to do it.
People who get married before 20 have average marriage of 52 years, with the median being 58.
People who get married between 20 and 25 have average marriage of 55 years, with the median being 53.
First of all, they are pretty close.
Second of all, if you go by the average, then getting married 20-25 wins.
But that whole stat is not applicable today. That stat has to be dealing with people that are at least 70, usually well past that. When they got married divorce was not the staggering percent that it is today.
First, I made a mistake and the numbers should be reversed in the first category
Second, I made the whole thing up.
Agreed, from both the left and the right.
lol. Agreed as well, from both right and left.
The Zionists kidnapped Teimani children in order to shmad them.
Yes, this brings up an interesting point I have thought.
Most jews like having a state of Israel, because we feel safe that we have somewhere to go that will not kill as.
However, I personally feel safer in America than in Israel, because I think that Israel will not protect me from religious persecution as well as America will.
I feel like Israel is out to destroy Judaism, which America is not. So frankly, I think I’ll stay right here.
(Of course, I’m still glad to have Israel in case America ever decides to kill us. But I can always go Israel—->America, while you can’t always do the reverse.)
HolyMoe: To the contrary, please tell us which beis din.
Is it also ridiculous that a school nurse is paid for by the school/government? After all, shouldn’t the parent of the kid pay for each visit to the nurse – and if ots not worth it to them to pay, its not worth it to society?
These courts are in the public best interest. If you don’t have salaried judges, you have in effect established a threshhold for “kosher” theft, up to the point where the claim is worth more than the court costs. Court fees now are so low that this threshhold is irrelevant.
Well, here’s what I’m concerned about.
Suppose A injures B, and there is questionable liability. The injury is 100 dollars.
A can spend 30 dollars on legal fees, and think he will win with probability of 80%.
B can spend 25 on legal fees, and will think he has only a 20% chance of losing.
So A will sue, because he is spending 30 for .8(100), for a gain of 50
B will defend, because he is spending 25 also for a .8(100) for a expected savings of 55.
They will not settle, because A’s expected gains are 70, so he will need to receive at least 70 to settle. While B’s expected losses are 25+.2(100)=45, so B will refuse to pay more than 45.
Now suppose the court also has costs of 30. So the total costs on society to litigate this suit are 30+25+30=85. And the plaintiff only expects to get .8(100) from the suit.
So isn’t it a waste of society’s resources for them to fight this suit? The plaintiff expects to get less money from the suit than they are spending to get it. It is like planting corn for 85 dollars for an 80% chance of getting 100! Why should society want this to happen?
However, if the parties will bear all the costs, then they will only litigate when there is more value in the suit than it costs, which will not waste societal assets.
So in our case, suppose the plaintiff has to pay all the court costs. So his legal fees are 30+30=60, and his expected gain is only 20. Meanwhile, defendant’s legal fees are 25 for an expected loss of 45. So defendant will pay plaintiff some amount between 20 and 45, and everyone will be happy, and no social resources are wasted. This is like planting corn at cost of nothing and reaping between 20 and 45! Doesn’t that sound like a better world to live in?
This thread makes me mad.
I still don’t understand or get the assertion that working boys are less yeshivish that learning boys because this person has not defined “yeshivish”.
I think we can generalize and say that learning boys are more likely to identify with American chareidi judaism than working boys. So if that is what she is looking for, she may need to look for a learning boy.
In secular court, the government pays the judge’s salary.
Yes, and isn’t that ridiculous? Why should society have to pay for these two idiots to settle their dispute? And if it isn’t worth it to them to pay for the judges, why should it be worth it to society?
The Hungarian kanoim – Dushinsky, Toldos Aharon, Satmar, Pupa, Tosh and Erloi – are not really tied into the Baal Shem Tov (Satmar is connected to other Chassidus by marriage more than anything). They are closer to the Chasam Soifer in their hashkofoh, and the levush is more a way of showing they are sticking with the old ways.
He said popa. Look everyone, he said popa. I am popa.
Bumped for the Creedmoore Rov’s benefit.
I will now repeat the post I made on this thread:
This idiot was always a non-entity, and continues to be so. I didn’t read the book; I haven’t read his other books; I don’t intend to read his books. He is as irrelevant as NASI.
Which one? Do you mean the NK one?
I actually regretted getting involved in that one. Just debating gave them much more credence than they deserve.
I thought girls were not Jewish so how can they have a mitzva!
That’s true. Even the ??? ???? ??? ?? are only for Bnei noach, not for bnos noach.
ad kidei kach that i read a story about a gadol (cant remember who) who took his FIL to a din torah because he defaulted on kest and it affected his learning
You are probably referring to the Taz who sued his father in law the Bach. Their deal was that he was supposed to give him “meat,” but the Bach lost his money and started giving him lung. The shaila in contract interpretation was whether lung is meat.
There have been many studies on this, and they have concluded that it really works.
(Google “study placebo effect”).
It costs a good deal of money. Look on the website of any Beis Din.
The RCA website has their costs (google it). It ranges depending on the amount in controversy, but it ranges from 150 to 7500 in administrative fees, plus an hourly fee of 150 per side for a single dayan and 300 for 3 dayanim.
It is permitted for them to charge. Read the entire siman.
Also, you need to pay for your toen and your lawyer. You need both a toen to make the correct claims in beis din, as well as a lawyer to make sure you don’t do anything or say anything which will mess you up if you end up in the ?????? ????. I don’t know prices on this, but I can’t imagine it is less than 500 an hour for the two of those.
So you’re figuring at least 800 an hour during proceedings, and 500 an hour for outside work done.
(A get costs 500, on RCA website. I dunno what the lawyers charge.)
Popa- where’s the source to this?
The latest US Census from 2010.
People who get married before 20 have average marriage of 52 years, with the median being 58.
People who get married between 20 and 25 have average marriage of 55 years, with the median being 53.
On average, people who get married younger have longer lasting marriages. Go for it before it’s too late.
Good, we’ll try to bump up some of the good threads you missed.
I dont get it… to all those that the whole ‘support’ situation is making you nervous marry working boys. If you dont value having a son in law/husband in full time kollel than why are you even looking in that direction?? stop making problems for yourself, there is no reason to get all worked up…
This is the credited response.
sushe: You are picking a narrow subset of places and times. Most towns in most times were not rich enough to have anywhere to put them.
Consider the story of chatzkele l’kavod shabbos. He grew up on the street, late at night he came to the synagogue and said teach me something. So he knows how to read and recite the sounds. He knows the beginning, but he doesn’t know the end.
When will we go again to yerushalayim, and when will we sing again? In the holy temple, l’kavod shabbos, oy l’kavod shabbos, l’kavod shabbos, oy l’kaaavod shaaabooos.
Ok, new question.
If you could be any Harry Potter creature other than human, which would you be?
I’d be a troll.
Popa, Jewish orphans weren’t let to live in shul and beg for food in Europe.
Of course they let them sleep in shul and beg for food. It would have been downright cruel not to.
Before the invention of the printing press, most towns probably had no more than one or two gemarahs.
Pretty impressive that the french were able to find 24 wagonloads to burn. How many volumes fit on a wagon?
Now here is some popa history.
In europe, people sometimes owned chickens, which they let roam around in their houses.
In europe, people didn’t have running water- and if they had to go to the bathroom in the night, they had a chamber pot which they kept under their bed. and you were allowed to empty it on shabbos, even though you would think it is muktza.
In europe, people didn’t eat meat on shabbos unless they were outrageously wealthy. Maybe they ate chicken, if they were only regular wealthy.
In europe, people didn’t learn torah at night, unless they were rich and could afford candles and oil for lamps.
In europe, the whole town had only one lulav and esrog.
In europe, if there was an orphan, you would let him sleep in the shul and beg for food. but you certainly wouldn’t adopt him.
In europe, people had lice, and didn’t use stupid shampoos to try to wash them out.
You want to be Amish, or you want to be Jewish?
According to zichron Yaakov (grandfather of Rabbi Lipschitz of the American Yated and secretary of the Agudah) they did not keep glatt in Lita because it was “motziin mamon shel yisrael shelo k’halacha”
Hmm. But they did keep other chumros which cost money.
Maybe it has to do with balancing the chomer of the chumrah, and the cost. So if the cost changes, it could change.
Aside 1: A friend of mine whose father owns a small shlachthois told me his father makes more money selling the treifos to goyim than selling the ksheiros to jews.
Aside 2: I have heard, that the adoption of glatt in america, was in response to mafia involvement in shechita, and their unwillingness to allow cows to be called “not kosher” since they lost money. So we started keeping glatt and saying the cow was just not glatt. Maybe an enterprising YWN-er can google around and find this.
You need to study history a little better, Charedi Judaism as practiced today comes from the 1700’s between the followers of the Baal Shem Tov and the Followers of Vilna Gaon
What are your sources for this?
If you are looking at recent history books and articles, I’d like to know what they are basing themselves on. There isn’t much in the way of Jewish literature from before chassidus, and most of what we have is seforim. And there is nobody alive who was there.
Generally, I think that these sort of historical observations are pretty suspect.