popa_bar_abba

Should be fine. Perhaps even advisable.

Yes. The policy I endose is to never send anything by text unless you are comfortable with the whole world reading it.

In that context, I use Hashem and the Torah pretty interchangeably.

Sam, PBA’s comment was originally deleted, but I cannot fight with his super powers….

It was the funnies post I’ve posted in a while. Kudos to whomever approved it.

Its nice to see a thread asking if someone is crazy which isn’t attacking me. Sometimes its like I can’t log on without soliek molesting me.

maybe I agree with her. I would never go out with a girl who wanted me for my looks.

hee hee

1. If you’re the kind of parent who is disappointed in their kids when they do things that aren’t even their fault, I can pick up on that. Those are the kids who aren’t going to tell their parents about things that are bothering them for fear of disappointing them. And that’s who I molest.

Talking about it on the internet.

Another woman once said that to me. I noticed she was wearing Tzitzis out. I was curious about that and asked her, and she quoted the Mishnah B’rurah’s rant that Tzitzis should be worn out. I told her that it looks weird though and that people will think she’s Conservative. Her response was, “Is my Yiras Adam more important than my Yiras Shamayim?

Really? She thinks that she is just doing her yiras shamayim by wearing her tzitzis out?

Millions of women don’t wear tzitzis, and are fine frum people. Not a single gadol’s wife wears tzitzis out. But this woman has decided that because she is afraid of G-d, she needs to wear them out.

I don’t believe her.

Frankly, I often don’t even believe it when a guy tells me he wears tzitzis out because of Hashem; I often think he is doing it because he wants to look frum.

Hmmm. Ok. Well, tell me what they do and think that someone would label them as feminists.

So we’ll suppose they want to make a mezuman. Tell me the rest of the story: they already are keeping the rest of the torah?

Tell me why they want to make a mezuman–is it because they don’t want to be different than men, or because there is something spiritual they need about babbling some yiddish before benching in a group?

And tell me better: Tell me why they want to do it even though they will be perceived as belonging to the group that is attacking Hashem? If I was being confused with the apikorsim for doing something completely voluntary, I would stop doing it instead of joining together with them in the same groups.

I’ll somewhat agree though; I do know someone who is like how you describe. And I don’t really understand her answers to these questions.

1. I don’t know why you are equating making a psak of daas torah, with going against halacha. The Chazon Ish does not say that, and that is not the case.

2. I still think you are understanding this in a funny way. As I noted earlier, I am not going against the shulchan aruch. I agree that in dinei mezuman a woman can make a mezuman, and I also say that a woman who does so because she feels that otherwise women don’t have an equal opportunity in Judiasm is a rashanta and is attacking Hashem. There is no contradiction, and I am curious where you see one.

3. Who is making gzeiros? I am not. I am not making any issur–I am merely saying that having an ideology where one tries to fit the Torah into one’s own thinking instead of trying to fit one’s own thinking into the Torah, is apikorsus and an attack on the Torah. It simply follows that the actions one does in furtherance of that are maaseh rishus. That is quite different from making a gzeira.

4. I was making assumptions about you, I don’t recall specific instances where you espoused that opinion. And since you disavow it, you should in this instance follow the opinion of rubam k’kulam of the gedolim that these practices are pure rishus and a chillul Hashem. And if any rav disagrees, you should disavow him as well.

Oh. You’ll want to clarify the comment which starts PBA: You’re forgetting…

I think you don’t. You just denied the entire notion of daas torah.

This is what the Chazon Ish says about that:

Rough translation: The distinguishing between psak of issur and psak of guidelines and decrees, is displaying novelty in the Torah, and is desecrating Talmidei Chachomim; and those who do so have no share in the World to Come, and are passul as witnesses.

Source: A private letter entitled ????? ?????, which is has been published. Just google the words and it’ll come up.

???? ???!!!!!!

Oh I hope they try. What fun it will be to watch them back off with their tail between their legs.

PBA: That is my definition of Orthodox as well. Hence, a woman who wants to do something that Hashem wants (or permits and wants as an Einah Metzuvah V’osah) should be allowed to do it and should not be stopped by society. That is the extent and entirety of my “feminism”.

….If that is what Hashem wants, I assume you mean.

Now, I’m a bit wondering what you are aiming at here. You seem to be conflating what is muttar in certain sugyos with what is muttar in other sugyos.

Meaning, just because something is muttar in denei lulav, does not mean it is muttar in dinei shabbos. Just because in dinei mezuman women are allowed to make a mezuman, does not mean that in hashkafa they are allowed to. And that is the case here.

But more importantly, just because they are allowed to in halacha, does not mean that the ones who do it for reasons of challenging Hashem, are not being reshaim. They are.

Why don’t you tell me what you are referring to?

Do you think that rabbonim are making up halacha and saying that things are assur which are not? I have never heard of this.

Do you think that rabbonim are saying something is assur for hashkafic reasons when it is muttar in halacha? That is happening, and it sounds pretty normal to me–I don’t understand your objection.

I got a ticket today for failure to display the muni meter receipt properly.

Thing is, there was no muni meter on that block, it had regular meters. And I had paid it.

But, I can’t prove that, because the meter mamzer also made a mistake on the ticket and wrote an address two blocks away. And I can’t prove that either.

Thing is, that the address two blocks away also doesn’t have muni meters.

Hmmmm.

Sorry, I have been busy.

Your main Ta’ana is that most girls who want to learn want to learn for feminist reasons and that it could lead them to bad things down the line. My line of thinking is Chas V’shalom to make girls give up Mitzvos just because some Apikorsim misused them. Do we stop wearing Tztitzis just because many Js for J wear them?

I think I would say it differently; my main tayna is connected to feminism, but I don’t think it is that it will lead to bad things down the line.

I don’t oppose feminism as applied to Judaism because it will lead to taking down the mechitza, or to anything else actually assur. If that was the only concern, I don’t know what my stance would be.

I oppose feminism as applied to Judaism, because it is wrong itself. The entire premise of a girl wanting to apply feminism to Jewish practice, is that Jewish practice otherwise treats women inappropriately. Saying that, is a serious chillul Hashem, and is literally an attack on Hashem and on the Torah. That is what I oppose.

Now look at the difference in focus, between what I’m talking about and what you’re talking about. You’re talking about issurim, and what we need to do, and what we don’t need to do, and what we can get around, and what we can’t get around, and what there is a shitta to rely on, and what there is no shitta to rely on.

My Judaism is not like that. My Judaism is about doing what Hashem wants us to do–that is, what we should

do. And how we should feel, and think. Hashem does not want women to learn gemara–chazal were clear about that. Hashem does not want us to pursue value systems which conflict with the Torah–Hashem wants us to pursue the value system of the Torah.

So you see, that while orthodox religions are usually criticized for making religion into a formalistic system divorced from its values, it is actually the opposite here. The chareidim are the ones trying to live the values of the torah, while I sometimes feel that others are trying to live their own values, and align the Torah with that.

I need to go again, but I’ll think about what your answer would be, and I post again before you do, I’ll try to write one up.