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I don’t understand your point. Why should Hatzolah take these kids to a din Torah? They don’t feel the need to. There was a need to warn the community of the danger of relying on an organization that doesn’t have the same training, experience and wherewithal when it comes to a life saving situation. The rabbonim have an obligation to speak out to warn the community of the dangers. Why should they care to take anyone to a din torah??
Rabbonim issue hadracha for the wider tzibbur when the issues call for it. A beis din issues a psak when there has been a hazmana and a din Torah.
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Establishment? These are choshove busy rabbonim that have better things to do with their time than play politics. R’ Chaim Meir Roth, Reb SB Cohen and the Skverer Dayan wrote a letter because they meant what they wrote, not because they are “the establishment”. I have no idea who the fellow that opened HN is but if he feels it’s worthy to fight with rabbonim, that honestly tells me all I need to know.
Does “establishment” make chosheve rabbonim ois rov? Ridiculous and shameful!!!!
One side has well known respected rabbonim (lit is hand chasidish) backing them and the other does not. I know nothing more about the issue but that’s all I need to know.
Very well said. This is a symptom of people forgetting that we are in golus. No other way to rationalize this.
Regarding “dumping on people not wearing masks “, below is the exact text of a letter written and signed by a senior prominent well known Rosh Yeshiva. Since I don’t know that he allows this to be posted on a public forum, he will remain unnamed.
Infection rates are rising in our community. Those who did not get infected during the spring are getting infected now.
Everyone MUST wear a mask otherwise others will find an excuse not to. Although you may feel well, you may still be carrying the coronavirus. And you must always obey all the rules of masking and distancing. Wearing a mask is not a minor aveirah.
If you do not comply with masking rules, you are responsible for the deaths of older relatives of those whom you infect.
Even if no one dies – you need a kaparah for the psheia itself.
If you’re victim only becomes sick, you will need a kaparah for the yissurim you brought upon them and their families.
If you do have zchusim you are lucky because you will suffer for what you have done while you’re alive.
If you don’t have zchusim, there’s a place of unimaginable yissurim waiting for you.
You have been told to wear a mask. So “but I didn’t mean it” will not be an excuse before the Beis Din Shel Maalah.
Protests are not ok and davening in a minyan that disregards social distancing and masking is not ok. But just because stupid politicians have messed up priorities, it DOESNT mean that we should be careless about our health. We would all be better off listening to our frum ehrliche doctors who have nothing to gain by publicizing their opinion except for getting nasty comments from people who have bad middos. And the doctors have been begging us to all do some simple things like wearing a mask.
It’s so unfortunate that we’ve reached this point. Had people done the simple things we could have avoided the current situation. But it’s just uncomfortable to G-d forbid put on a mask…. so here we are discussing another lockdown.
Joseph, I was responding to the original poster who stated that the consensus of Rabbonim & Roshei Yeshiva is that the Yeshivos should be reopening.
Joseph, I’m not debating anything. I’m pleading with people to please listen to medical advice and not rush to reopen things based on… google searches? Rush Limbaugh? Nobody’s dying? I don’t know what the mindset is. I haven’t heard a single local Lakewood doctor publicly say that it’s safe to reopen yeshivos. On the contrary, there have been many public letters urging caution.
Syag, your points are well taken. I do understand that there are many sides to this issue and I don’t claim to know the answers. My one point is simple: if the LOCAL doctors for our community are saying that this isn’t safe, how can we move ahead? Why is the hamon am rushing ahead and ignoring medical advice? The doctors have also taken all your above points in mind and are not convinced that this is the safe route… What’s happening in the rest of the country is not a good case study for our community which is much more intertwined.
Bochur, what is the risk? What is the danger to yourself and others that you have decided is now ok? Before purim we were all sure that everything was being overblown. We were wrong then and doctors are publicly saying that they have no way of knowing that it’s now safer (besides the many anonymous ones that you know about). If rabonim along with the doctors say it’s ok, then we follow. If bochur says it’s ok, we should ignore him.
Haimy, this last post is exactly what is perplexing to me in the hamon am reaction to rush back to the previous normal. You state that we may never know when we will be ready to open. Presumably that means that there is an element of unknown risk, ie a sofek sakana which is exactly the way my doctor feels. If that’s the case, all other points are moot. Who’s being matir a sofek pikuach nefesh? Be machmir when you have a sofek! Whatever the politicians say should have no bearing on us. We value life! We want everyone to live! Who’s taking achrayus in the world and the next for subjecting someone else to a sofek pikuach nefesh?!? Yes, it’s a terrible tragedy that the yeshivos and shuls were forced to close. We should all sit on the floor and cry to Hashem to accept our teshuva. The only thing that I can imagine a bigger tragedy is attending more levayas via zoom. I’ve had enough of that and I beg and plead with everyone out there to do their utmost that it doesn’t start again.
Listen to your rabonim and doctors (in my world they don’t disagree) and don’t make rash decisions on your own. If it’s safe after careful advice from rabonim and doctors then go ahead. But not before!!!
If doctors are saying it’s safe, great. I personally spoke to one of the renowned and popular frum doctors in Lakewood (who’s a yirei shomayim who always davened in shul and has his priorities straight) and he has no idea what people are relying on. But if rabonim have received information that’s it’s medically safe to reopen, great.
So please explain this. The doctor says there’s not enough medical evidence to consider it safe to reopen. What additional information does the Rav have to say that it should be opened anyway?
Personally, I have learned under a renowned Rosh Yeshiva who himself is proficient in medical knowledge, yet he always listened to his doctor. I truly feel like we’re in uncharted territory. I don’t remember ever seeing before so many people in our community advocating not listening in a situation that can be truly dangerous…
Midwesterner, all sarcasm aside, are you suggesting that medical advice be ignored?
Joseph, rabonim are deciding what’s considered medically safe? Are they disregarding medical advice? If so, which rabonim are you referring to?
Did anyone consult with medical professionals to find out if it’s medically safe? If yes, who? If not, on what basis is this “consensus of rabbonim” basing this on?
Has anyone heard of any local frum doctor that’s 100% sure that it’s safe to reopen?? These doctors are erliche yirei shomayim who love and respect limud hatorah. I don’t see what motivation they would have to express their uncertainty with all the rush to reopening except for deep concern for their fellow people. Why and on what basis are people ignoring their medical advice?
This video brings a larger issue to light, posting on social media.
People must realize the ramifications of putting things out in the public on social media. Everyone must ask themselves before posting something, am I being mikadish sheim shomyim or am I being michalel sheim shomyim. Please please don’t post something that can portray Klal Yisroel and by extension Hashem in a negative light. Chazal tell us that chilul Hashem is so serious an aveira that nothing is michaper until yom hamisa. It would be appropriate for us all to take stock of the ramifications of our actions and not chas vshalom thoughtlessly post something that can lead to chilul Hashem, lashon horah and motzei shem ra.