Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Ujm, you keep repeating the same mantras yourself.
1. Meanwhile you have nothing to remark about the Rambam’s declaration about the Muslims, the violent Muslim rampages on communities that did not accept their religion, the Arab/Muslims have always been violent, period. You have not responded to the fact Muslims committed hundreds of thousands murders of non-Jews in the last decade. Zionism has nothing to do with Arab/Muslim violence, period.
2. I bought you a link of the recording of Rabbi Miller regarding the Israeli elections, he did not say you cant vote, simply said hes leaving up to other Rabbis (many more Rabbis encouraged/encourage voting in the elections than the anti-Zionist rabbis). You wrote what Rabbi Miller and Rabbi Hutner wrote against the atheist Zionist LEADERS, it was not against the Zionist movement. You ignored the fact that Rabbi Hutner learned under Rav Kook so he couldn’t have been an anti-Zionist. I heard Rabbi Miller on a recording say he can’t answer a question about Zionism. I believe when he was younger he was anti-Zionist and in his later years, as the Chareidi communities became more and bigger he did not speak against Zionism.
3. I don’t have pride in the State. I am against the secular “education” the Israeli government provides for Jewish children. I am against the secular government giving citizenship for non-Jews, i was against the Israeli government giving away land “for peace” . I am against a lot of things the Israeli government does. But I’m also against Jews not defending themselves. I support Jews having an army and fighting their enemies.Ujm, so are you going to blame Muslim barbarism and bloodshed throughout all of history, throughout all the centuries, on Zionism? What about the fact that they killed hundreds of thousands of their own people and other minorities in the last decade? Is that also because of Zionism? All of their “holy wars” that they fight between themselves, the decapitation they do on their own people, the violence, etc. they only do that to other Muslims and other minorities but they wouldn’t dare harm Jews? Yes, I’m sure it was Zionism that made the bloodthirsty, violent, pereh adam kidnap and murder Jews…
Potato, no not only Chabad links are allowed. I posted on another thread a link to Rabbi Avigdor Miller’s shmuess on voting in the Israeli elections and the mods posted it.
Ujm, the strawman argument is that the Muslims became barbarians due to Zionism.
Coffee addict, you are so right that only a Lubavitche would argue that Rashi says one thing on the posuk and a different thing on the Gemarah as if Rashi is contradicting himself.
What dishonesty. I cannot take that.
I will not argue directly with Menachem Shmei anymore because when one is so dishonest that they do not seek out the truth only go in circles to defend their position to try to “prove” that the Torah supports his a”z, he is not worth my time anymore. Menachem Shmei is going back and forth, talking out of both sides of the mouth. He says that Rashi says Yaacov was buried (actually Rashi points to the word in the posuk saying that Yaacov expired but that it does not say he died, so he agrees that Yaacov expired) but at the same time Shmei says that Rashi says on the Gemorah that Yaacov is PHYSICALLY alive…never mind that that gemorah AND Rashi clearly state what being alive means and it is not that Yaacov is physically alive…to say that Rashi is saying on one hand that Yaacov was buried and on the other that he’s physically alive?! Rashi is not saying ” יעקב לא מת literally”. Does Rashi say the word “literally”? No, Menachem shmaya is saying that Rashi is saying the word “literally”. He tries to make it seem as if Rashi is arguing with himself and saying a different pshat on the Gemorah than the posuk! What a bezoyin haTorah to twist pesukim and meforshim to try to prove that his a”z worship is the truth! Menachem you can try to twist the Truth but the Torah cannot be twisted, regardless of your attempts.
Menachem Shmei, indeed I agree with you here. The Rambam himself wrote how evil they are. He knows the Muslims better than the anti-Zionists and even us Ashkenazim who always repeat that the Jews had it better under the Muslims. Jews also lived in peace under various Christian rulers too. I for one will not argue anymore that Jews suffered less under the Muslims. We see how they treat people today, they are not different today from the barbarism they displayed throughout history.
For all Lubavitche out there who believe things like the rebbe is running the world and other such idolatrous beliefs, I am posting the 13 principals of faith to remind us all what the Torah teaches us about belief in Hashem.
The 13 Principles of Faith by the Rambam:
Principle 1
I believe by complete faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, is the Creator and מנהיג for all created beings. He alone made, makes, and will make all that is created.Principle 2
I believe by complete faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, is a Unity, and there is no union in any way like Him. He alone is our God, Who was, Who is, and Who is to be.Principle 3
I believe by complete faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, is not a body, is not affected by physical matter, and nothing whatsoever can compare to Him [or be compared with Him].Principle 4
I believe by complete faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, is the first and is the last.Principle 5
I believe by complete faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, to Him alone is it fitting to make prayer and to another prayer shall not be made.Principle 6
I believe by complete faith that all the words of the prophets are true.Principle 7
I believe by complete faith that the prophesy of Moshe Rabbeinu, a”h, was true and that he was the father of all prophets that preceded him as well as all that came after him.Principle 8
I believe by complete faith that the whole Torah now found in our hands was the exact same one given to Moshe, a”hPrinciple 9
I believe by complete faith that this is the Torah, and it shall not be changed and it shall not be replaced with another from the Creator, blessed be His name.Principle 10
I believe by complete faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, knows every action done by each human being as well as all their thoughts.Principle 11
I believe by complete faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, rewards all who keep His commandments and punishes all those who transgress His commands.Principle 12
I believe by complete faith in the coming of the Messiach, and even though he tarry in waiting, in spite of that, I will still wait expectantly for him each day that he will comePrinciple 13
I believe by complete faith that there will be a resurrection of the dead at the time that will be pleasing before the Creator, blessed be His name, and the remembrance of Him will be exalted forever and for all eternity.Ujm, what you wrote about Rabbi Hutner zt”l is copy and paste from somewhere? What is the source? You did not bring me a source where it says that he says what you claim he did. Furthermore, I’m not an expert on Rabbi Hutner’s biography, but he was a talmud of Rabbi Kook zt”l who mentored him for years and I can’t believe that he was so anti-Zionist if his mentor was Rav Kook.
What you write Rabbi Avigdor Miller zt”l said about Zionist leaders I can’t confirm nor deny. However, I see nothing that you wrote where he blamed the Zionist movement on the Holocaust, rather he blamed the atheist Zionist leaders for failing to do more to save Jews from the Holocauset. Thats quite different than blaming the Holocaust on Zionism as a movement. (Same as what you claim Rabbi Hutner said) One thing I can tell you as a fact I that I listened to many of Rabbi Miller’s tapes and on one tape someone asked what he says about the State of Israel. He said he cannot comment on that. The questioner repeated his question but Rabbi Miller said he cannot again that answer on that.
Here’s an audio on what he answered on the topic of voting in the Israeli elections which is a similar to what I heard that he is not poskening on the issue of the state of Israel, he is leaving it to other gedolim.
Qwerty, menachem shmei knows a lot but he knows nothing because he, like others who are intent on proving their worship of their idols is legitimate, misconstrue and lie about what the sources really say. They don’t only lie to others, really they are try to convince themselves that they are not sinning against Hashem with their idolatry. They lie to the extent that they twist themselves into pretzels trying to get the sources to fit their narrative.
Menachem Shmei, now when your argument was proven to be false you are trying to save face and you are really trying hard to make it seem like you are on both sides of the fence on this argument. You say that Rashi says that Yaacov is physically alive and at the same time you say Rashi says that Yaacov was buried…
This is so ridiculous. It is just as ridiculous as believing your dead rebbe is buried in the ohel and yet physically alive at the same time….
You can’t argue with irrational people who make up answers on the go to fit their ideology. Dishonesty is the core of avodah zora, I see this over and over again.
Ujm, there are almost no Zionists today except for the religious right-wingers. The secular are not Zionists anymore. No one said we are not in golus anymore. If someone feels safer Israel, kol hakavod to them, but you feel more secure in the US which is an illusion just like the Jews who felt safe in Germany before the Holocaust.
Bring me a source that Rav aHutner and Rav Avigdor Miller said that the Zionists bear guilt for the Holocauset.
Yes, overall the Muslims were better to the Jews however they still murdered Jews and stole Jewish children, especially girls. They forced tens of thousands of Jews to convert to Islam which so many did because they still served One God under Islam so it was not like converting to Christianity which is pure a”z. If the scores of Jews in the Arabian lands who converted to Islam would refuse to be converted like the Ashkenazim refused to be converted to Christianity, and therefore killed, many more Jews would die at the hands of the Muslims.
It’s utterly ridiculous, and only the due to brainwashing, to think that Zionism is to blame for current Muslim violence. In the last decade, Muslims have killed hundreds of thousands of their own Muslim people, they killed Yazidis, Christians, and other minorities, they have displaced millions of people, but sure, if not for Zionism they wouldn’t hurt Jews…what planet are you living on to believe that?!
Menachem Shmei, my last comment to you was not so clearly written, therefore i am clarifying my answer to you in this post.
2. Here’s what you wrote: “(…Based on that hekesh he proves that just as they are alive, so too he is alive even though facts seem otherwise.) Rashi (on Gemara) explains that he was only buried because they thought he was dead, but really he was alive.” Do you really not see that you are totally contradicting yourself!!? You claimed the entire time that Rashi said the Yaacov Avinu was PHYSICALLY ALIVE and now you say that Rashi “explains that HE WAS ONLY BURIED because they thought he was dead, but really he was alive”. So now you are changing what you claimed Rashi says and now you are admiting what I had said all along that Rashi does not contradict the posuk that Yaacov’s body expired (and therefore he was buried) and he is not saying that Yaacov is physically alive!!! Over what exactly are you still arguing with me on this?!
Menachem Shmei,
1. You are arguing over nothing. I’m not even going to respond to your (non)rebuttal. This is what the Gemara says, its as clear as day that the Gemorah (and the meforshim say that it) means that Yaacov is alive through his seed. בָּתַר דִּסְעוּד אֲמַר לֵיהּ, הָכִי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: יַעֲקֹב אָבִינוּ לֹא מֵת. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְכִי בִּכְדִי סְפַדוּ סַפְדָּנַיָּא וַחֲנַטוּ חָנְטַיָּיא וּקְבַרוּ קַבָּרַיָּיא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִקְרָא אֲנִי דּוֹרֵשׁ, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וְאַתָּה אַל תִּירָא עַבְדִּי יַעֲקֹב נְאֻם ה׳ וְאַל תֵּחַת יִשְׂרָאֵל כִּי הִנְנִי מוֹשִׁיעֲךָ מֵרָחוֹק וְאֶת זַרְעֲךָ מֵאֶרֶץ שִׁבְיָם״, מַקִּישׁ הוּא לְזַרְעוֹ: מָה זַרְעוֹ בַּחַיִּים — אַף הוּא בַּחַיִּים.
2. Here’s what you wrote: “…Based on that hekesh he proves that just as they are alive, so too he is alive even though facts seem otherwise. Rashi (on Gemara) explains that he was only buried because they thought he was dead, but really he was alive.” Do you really not see that you are totally contradicting yourself!!? You claimed the entire time that Rashi said the Yaacov Avinu was PHYSICALLY ALIVE and now you say that Rashi “explains THAT HE WAS only BURIED because they thought he was dead, but really he was alive”. So now you are saying I said said all along that his body expired as the posek says and not physically alive!!! Over what exactly are you still arguing with me on this? Unbelievable!
Menachem Shmei, I asked you specific questions like “does Chabad believe the rebbe runs the world”, etc. These are specific questions of your beliefs which warranted specific yes or no answer answers .
If you would ask me if I think anyone besides for Hashem runs the world I’d answer you unequivocally, a one word answer “no”. However, you challenged me on HOW I can say that Hashem doesnt have partners when the Gemarah “clearly” says that He does. That needs an explanation for an answer, it is not a one word answer on my specific beliefs, but an explanation of what the Gemorah actually means because clearly tried to misconstrue the Gemorah to make it look as if the Gemorah says that Hashem has partners in running the world which is false, that is not what the Gemorah means.
Qwerty, I always get sucked into arguments because it disgusts me how they misnterpret our holy sources to fit their crazy, avodah zora narrative and i feel the need to dispute their absurd claims. This is what happened when I used to argue with Christians, but arguing with Lubavitchers who believe in their rebbe being a divinity is more problematic because they know more than Christians and their misinterpretations are more sophisticated and more subtle, and hence more dangerous for frum people.
Sechel, I’m glad to hear you dont believe in that. Im wondering what percentage of Chabad doee believe in that ideology. You cannot deny this about Chabad when I watched many videos of Chabad rabbis saying these things. I have posted 4 videos from Chabad rabbis saying these things about the the rebbe, that he runs the world, that he is physically alive, etc, etc and a video of Lubavitche praying to Rebbe’s chair, claiming he’s not feeling well 30 years after his death, calling him up for an aliyeh, etc. 2 of these videos were posted on the other thread, another one was not posted at all and the 4th one was deleted by the mods. But these are the facts that I see of what Chabad rabbis teach Chabad Chassidim and some of Chabad’s Chassidim own behavior.
Menachem Shmei, Rashi himself points to the word in the posuk ” ויגוע” that he expired, he never challenges that. This is what Rashi says: ויגוע ויאסף. וּמִיתָה לֹא נֶאֶמְרָה בוֹ, וְאָ”רַ יַעֲקֹב אָבִינוּ לֹא מֵת . Rashi never said that he did not expire and that Yaacov Avinu was PHYSICALLY alive after he expired. Rashi mentioning that the Torah does not say מות, does not mean that Rashi meant that Yaacov’s body did not expire. We have numerous meforshim explaining what Rashi meant and none of them, perhaps with the exception of “meforshim shel Chabad “, none of these meforshim claim that Yaacov Avinu’s body did not expire.
The “source you mention to prove your point”, Taanis 5B, you leave out the part where R’ Yitzchok, who is the one bringing up that Yaacov Avinu did not die, expands on that that Yaacov will be saved as his seed is alive and will be saved (from captivity). The classic understanding of this gemerah is that Yaacov Avinu is alive through his descendants. Never does the gemorah say that Yaacov Avinu is alive physically.
This is the power of avodah zora, to spin and misinterpret things so that supposedly there is “proof from the sources” in the validity of your worship of your idol.
Menachem shmei, absolutely Hashem doesn’t have partners in running the universe. Hashem created the world in a specific way that humans are the vehicles in the creation of other human beings, hence parents are called partners in the creation of their children, but do they actually create their children? Absolutely not. Humans can only be parents if Hashem wills it to be so, from the starting point until the finish, parents do not create their children, they are vehicles, and hence called partners, in the creation of their children.
This is the danger of Chabadianity. Just like Christianity, they mistranslate or misinterpret and take out of context a posuk in Tanach, Orin Chabad’s case, a Gemarah or another source, and that they warp into supporting their getchke.
Menachem Shmei, I was skimming through the thread again to search for something and I saw that I missed your response to me about a Chabad rabbi saying that Rashi said that Yaacov Avinu didn’t die physically and you said that that rabbi is saying the truth. That is not what Rashi said! Rashi said that Yaacov Avinu expired, but did not die. He never said that he is alive physically!!! He said he expired but did not die which meforshim have many explanations what it means (one mefoiresh is that he lives on through his children) But you have to be “not too smart” to even think that Rashi thought that Yaacov Avinu is still PHYSICALLY alive during his time…just as you have to be incredibly brainwashed to believe that your rebbe is physically alive today after he died 30 years ago…
I am asking these questions from all Lubavitche on here, please answer me. I asked these questions on the other thread from Menachem Shmei who thinks that by ignoring these questions the facts about Lubavitch can be ignored.
I’m asking all Lubavitche here to clarify what their beliefs are regarding their rebbe. Do you believe your rebbe runs the world, that he is everywhere, that you can pray to him anywhere and he’ll listen to your prayer and help, and that he never made mistakes? (These are the attributes omnipotence and omnipresence which are attributes of Hashem) Yes or no? It’s not an essay question. Just answer a simple, one word answer, yes or no.
You Lubavitche are trying to deflect these questions by bringing “sources”, stories and writing about everything and anything other than what you beliefs are regarding your rebbe. But the fact remains that you are being evasive, you are not being truthful about your beliefs. One has to be stupid to not see what you are doing.
Menachem Shmei, i have seen documentaries protraying Chareidim in a negative light. I have never attacked Chareidim based on any documentary and my opinions on Chareidim are not hinged on any documentary. In fact, if there were opportunities to defend Chareidim over a documentary that portrayed Chareidim in a false manner, i defended Chareidim and blasted the documentary. My opinions of individuals and groups and communities are based on their beliefs and actions, not on an edited false narrative.
I’m asking you to clarify your beliefs. Do you believe the Rebbe runs the world, that he is everywhere, that you can pray to him anywhere and he’ll listen to your prayer and help, and that he never made mistakes? (These are the attributes omnipotence and omnipresence which are attributes of Hashem) Yes or no? It’s not an essay question. Just answer a simple, one word answer, yes or no.
Gadolhadofi, your comment is hysterical 😀 the anti-Zionists blaming, among other things, hemorrhroids on Zionism 😂. But the truth is not too far from that. Anti-Zionists seriously blame the Holocaust on Zionism. That is absolutely disgusting, it’s a deliberate perversion of history. The blaming of terrorism on Zionism is disgustingas well. The Fakestenian terrorists EXCUSE is Zionism just like all the haters who have have killed Jews throughout history always had one excuse or another why they were “justified” to murder and persecute Jews.
I wondered what percentage of Lubavitche believe in the rebbe having divine powers. But all I see is that whenever Lubavitche attempt to defend Chabad (not only here on this site)they do not deny that they believe that the Rebbe runs the world, that he’s all over and that you can pray to him where you are, that he never made mistakes and all kinds of ideas and the worshiping behaviors they engage in worshipping their rebbe. They simply think that by throwing “shmutz” at those who are exposing their behavior and criticizing it, that it will blind people to the truth of what Chabad is and scare people off from criticizing them. So I can only assume at this point, when not one Lubavitche has said clearly that they themselves, and that mainstream Lubavitche, do not believe that the Rebbe runs the world and have all the other deity-like attributes they claim their rebbe has, that that is what they all believe in?
Ujm, did you forget you are still in golus? The assimilated Jews in Europe also thought they were safe…until the Holocauset happened. You think that just because within the span of years from the Holocaust until now most of the Jews who died were from Israel and we are safe in the US…that is very naive.
Potato, regardless if you bring sources that moshiach can come from the dead, the fact is that many Lubavitche rabbis claim that the Rebbe is PHYSICALLY alive. For moshiach to fulfill the prophecies he would have to be alive so if you believe your Rebbe is the moshiach he would have to have techius maysim first. Why don’t non-Chabad rabbunim protest the belief that the rebbe is moshiach?They dont care, and rightfully so, because its not a”z to believe that the Rebbe is moshiach.
The problem is, and I keep repeating this, is the a”z aspect of worshipping your rebbe. I have said that it’s a chillul Hashem that no one is speaking out against the avodah zora that goes on. However, I will be dan l’kaf zchus that like most frum people, gedolim have no clue that Lubavitche believe their rebbe is running the world, that they are are praying to the rebbe’s chair, that they believe they can pray to the lubavitche rebbe like to a god, that they make aliyahs for him like hes alive, that they make believe that he’s giving dollars to the oilim, that they say that the rebbe never made mistakes, etc, etc. The behavior of making believe that the rebbe is giving out dollars and l’chaims is like those who worship actual idols; they make as if their god is actually doing the physical work. The gedolim have no clue, like most frum people, that this is what Lubavitche believe in and actually do.
Rabbi Falk was not machmir. We can judge if he was machmir from seeing those those who disregard him as being too machmir and “pasken” for themselves “straight from the sources” look like these days. First it started with shorter skirts and leggings because “the knee is technically covered”. Then came the xl long hair and wigs till their b_____ because where does it say you can’t go with this (zoina) length hair? Then it progressed to uncovered legs, knees exposed and nowadays it’s mini skirts, no tights and bare elbows… there is no end to the pritzes because everyone decided they are poskim who know what the sources are…
gobrit, the argument at this point is not so much if the Rebbe is moshiach. If only the moshiach aspect would be the case no would care this much. The bigger issue is the worship of their rebbe. Would you be OK with Christian communities living amongst us, dressed as Chareidim, feeling like they are Chareidim, mingling with us? Would their hechsheirim be accepted as kosher? Would people buy from their sofrim? Would they daven in their sohuls? The early Christians were “frum” Jews, so this scenerio was the reality 2,000 years ago.
The bigger problem is not Chabad meshiachistens insistence that their dead rebbe is moshiach, that is the source of the problem but not the extent of the problem. The bigger problem is that Chabiadinity is not Judaism. It is a seperate religion of kofrim who believe the Rebbe runs the world, the Rebbe is everywhere, that one should pray to him, that he knows everything, that he never made mistakes and thar he is alive in a physical sense. The is a”z mamesh. That we have people from this religion giving hechsheirim and providing food, having minyanim all over the world where Jewish travelers daven and provide services and mingling with us is a huge, huge problem as well as a chillul shem shomayim.Ujm, do you actually believe that Hamas would nicely give back all the hostages, repress their killing instincts and give up their culture of war and death and stop their murderous rampages on Israelis if Israel if pull would out of Gaza?
I went to Satmer school. My family is not Satmer nor Satmer geshtimt. We read both, the Jewish Press and Der Yid, religiously every week. No one in my family had any pro or anti Zionist opinions. To them, it was what it was. For me, having an opinion on everything even as a young kid, I could not understand what the Satmere wanted the Yidden in Israel to do in the face of attacks by the Arabs. Learning the history of pre-independant Israel and the way the Arabs kept on attacking the Jews and cutting off food and supply routes, it was ridiculous to me that the anti-Zionists expected the Jews to sit with folded hands and not protect themselves. I also found it incredibly naive for anti-Zionists to believe the UN or an international body made up of non-Jews, as they used to propose an idea of who can govern Israel instead of the Zionists, would do anything to protect Jews.
Today however, I do realize the extent the secular Zionists have destroyed Israel with their own hands. There are today almost no secular Zionists, they are for the most part simply leftists. They have destroyed their own ideology and they are constantly putting Israel at security risk. Giving away land to the enemies, giving in to terrorist demands, cowering in the face of international pressure, imprisoning their soldiers, these are all the products of secular Zionist education that has left generations of secular empty shells due to their upbringing devoid of Yiddishkeit. Their entire ideology of secular Zionism has collapsed.
As for the rightwing Zionists, I support the frum ones who adhere to Rav Kook zt”l teachings, not the ones who put living in the land before halcha and end up trampling on halacha.
I still believe Jews not only have a right to defend themselves, but they have an obligation to do so, and I will always believe that.
Having said that, due to the tarivos and secular ideology that permeates the IDF, the secular have no right to draft the Chareidim into the army.My views my look paradoxical, but I think that it reflects the reality.
I hesitate to say this, but I have originally believed the Lubavitche Rebbe to have been innocent in this debacle but now I’m starting to get a different picture. I have shown someone the video that i posted on the other Lubavitche thread about Cunin saying that the Rebbe runs the world. The person I showed the video to was absolutely shocked but said somethung very profound. Being a Chosid he knew how Chassidim are and he said that the Rebbe must’ve wriiten and said things that brought his Chassiddim to believe what they believe in. That comment stayed with me and since my last post saying that I’m changing what i wrote that the “rebbe is an idol that you worship”, to “the Lubavitche believing that the Rebbe has divine powers” I’ve been doing more and more research into the Lubavitche Rebbe’s writings and I have to say I’m shocked.
From the writings of “Ah rebbe iz Atzmus uMahus vos hot zich areingeshtelt in a guf” to signing his name as moshiach, to accepting a tambourine a woman made for him “because he’s the moshiach”, to encouraging the saying of “yechi” in his last year of life, etc. The whole meshiachisten ideology and his Chassidim believing in him having divine powers did not happen in a vaccuum.
Potato and sechel, instead of answering my questions about your beliefs about the Lubavitche Rebbe you claim lies are being fed and people are taught to hate… B’kitzer, you think that by skirting the questions instead of being honest, and using the words “wild allegations, sinas chinum and machloikes” you can scare people off from shedding light onto your avoda zora worship. The videos and articles from Lubavitche “rabbis” are there and you ignore it. The questions are put forth and you ignore it. You think people are blind? You think you can hide under the cover of the words “sinas chinum and machloikes”?
Let me rephrase what I wrote in an earlier post. I wrote that the Lubavitche Rebbe “is an idol that you worship”. I would like to say instead that Lubavitche Chassidim who believe in the Rebbe’s divine powers are turning him into an idol. I have not done much research into the Rebbes writings and have not heard many recordings. I did watch a few videos of his speeches and I was impressed with what he had to say however lately I’ve been reading things he wrote and seeing videos that i didnt see until now and can conclude that in his later years he may have been sending his Chassidim mixed messages regarding him being moshiach. But I cannot say “he is an idol”, rather he is being made into an idol by those who worship him. The worshippers of the Rebbe are doing a tremendous disservice to the PERSON they so admire.
Yserbius, many women today supposedly need to know the sources of halacha of tznius and then proceed to trample on basic halacha because they think they can “pasken ” that rabbanim like Rabbi Falk was a “machmir”. Is it written anywhere in the Torah that you cant to go with a wig and hair till the waist? Does it say in the Torah that you can’t wear a bodysuit? It’s ridiculous that these women think they can pasken halacha because they supposedly know the sources which they then proceed to write off as “machmirim”. And how do you think these “female dayanim” go dressed? Bare elbows, short skirts, no stockings, hair and wigs length till their behinds, form fitting clothing, etc, etc. They brazenly disregard basic halachas they claim to be experts in.
Potato, where does the Vilna Gaon come into the picture?
So you don’t believe that the Rebbe is physically alive?
You dont believe the Lubavitche rabbis who say the Rebbe never made mistakes, that he’s all over and that you can pray to him wherever you are?
You dont believe that the Rebbe runs the world? Do you condemn Cunin for saying that the Rebbe runs the world?EchadHaemes, please state a source that says knowing Christian theology is assured. Many great Rabbis knew Christian theology. I’m not saying it’s for everyone to learn, some people get easily swayed by arguments even if those arguments are illogical. Many frum people like myself who know Christian history and theology well see the path Chabad is heading on with their belief in the Rebbe as moshiach and his divine powers eerily similar to Christianity. If Berger knows Christian history and theology then it is understandable that he sees the danger in the Chabad ideology of belief in the rebbe as Moshiach and having divine powers being that it is so similar to Christianity.
Potato, klal yisroel as a whole rejects the notion that the dead Lubavitche rebbe is moshiach, so that’s that. Let’s see him take you Lubavitche out of gulas first, then you can argue that he’s the moshiach. The bigger issue is that he is an idol that you worship. You pray to him, you believe he’s physically alive, you say he never made mistakes, that he’s everywhere and that he runs the world. This is avoideh zura mamesh.
sechel, there are meforshim that our great Rabbis wrote on the pesukim in Tanach, chazal, gemorah, etc, etc. that helps us understand things that would be hard to understand. It is Lubavitche like you who twist everything out of context. For example when Rashi says that Yaacov avinu did not die there are numerous mefarshim that explain what it means. There is no mefoiresh saying that he is here with us physically. And yet i heard a Chabad rabbi claim that Rashi said that Yaacov is with us physically; that is a lie. When chabad “rabbis” claim that the Rebbe is here with us physically and that he runs the world you know good and well that they mean it absolutely literally. In fact, everything they “teach” revolves around “proving” that the “rebbe is alive” and that “he can’t make mistakes” and that he’s everywhere” and that “he runs the world” and other such a”z teachings. And you know as well as everybody else that these “rabbis” mean it absolutely literally.
Menachem Shmei, all these things are irrelevent to the fact that Lubavitche say the Rebbe runs the world and you can pray to him anywhere because he is everywhere. It’s avoidah zora mamesh.
Qwerty, unbelievable that a “rabbi” can talk like that about Moshe Rabbeinu! They are not practicing Yiddishkeit but their own invented religion; they are seeing their Rebbe through the lens of their religion.
Qwerty, it’s amazing how Chabadianity, I’m borrowing the term someone used at the beginning of this thread, is going down the same path as Christianity with their choosing to believe in a trinity of deities. On another frum site a Lubavitzer claimed the Rebbe runs the world like Moshe Rabbeinu did so it seems like it’s a shtickel stira at this point who their third deity is in their trinity.
Lubavitche were brainwashed to believe in what they do but they know it’s wrong because they deny that they that they worship the Rebbe meanwhile between themselves they talk about the Rebbe running world and that you can pray to him whereever you are because he is all over. And if you ask if they believe the Rebbe is moshiach they won’t deny it but they’ll wiggle out of answering directly.
The question I have is if all, the majority or only a sizeable percentage of Lubavitche believe in this kefira. It’s hard to know. But at the rate it’s going, due to the brainwashing off the young children, this ideology seems to be becoming mainstream in Chabad, if it is not already.
Menachem Shmei, that’s why I don’t ask Lubavitche whether they worship their rebbe, because like you are doing, they all deny it. This is one of the reasons why I don’t have a clear view of the percentage of Lubavitche believe in the ideology that the Rebbe is alive and that he runs the world, because they all deny that they engage in idol worship.
The reason I say what I say about Lubavitch and I’m standing behind what I say is because I watch videos and read articles by Lubavitche “rabbis” for Lubavitche Chassidim. That’s how I know what they truly believe in.
Praying to a your human being rebbe, praying to his chair, praying to him in his synagogue 770, praying to him in his ohel, praying to him on the North Pole and down under in Austrlia, praying for him wherever you are because you believe he is all over and that he runs the world is IDOL WORSHIP.
Just heard the song. I agree with the OP. This is not chinuch.
Yankel berel, it is encouraging to see an haskama from Rabbi Feldman for Dr Berger’s book.
I think that most rabbonim do not know that there are Lubavitche that are engaged in idol worship. They just know that some Lubavitchers believe their rebbe is alive, but they have no clue that they worship him like an idol. Also, because it’s so bizarre to believe that a person who died is physically alive they believe it’s only a fringe group of Lubavitche that believe in that.
The real rabbonim I know do not watch Chabad youtube channels nor do read Chabad articles online. The modern “rabbis” who “love everyone” regardless of what they do and believe in, don’t care.
I hope rabbonim become aware of what is going on. I’d like to think they would care enough about kavod shamayim to protest the avodah zura that is going on.
Qwerty, I never read Dr. Berger’s books but it did puzzle me why no rabbonim spoke out against this kefira.
Yankel berel, you are so right. I used to argue with Christians when they tried to “quote” Tanach. Believing in human as a divinity is ridiculous, kol shekein trying to “prove” Christianity from Tanach that teaches us that belief in anyone other than our One True God is idolatry, and that God is not physical. So when Christians supposedly “quote” verses from Tanach to “prove that their religion is the truth” it is laughable. However, since I’m not Tovia Singer who knows pesukim from Tanach by heart, I always had to look up and to research the “verses” these Christians were “quoting” when arguing with them. Sometimes the verse they claimed was in Tanach was totally not there, sometimes it was mistranslated and sometimes they took the verse completely out of context. Every time I’d argue back and forth with a Christian they ALWAYS gave up in the end but till then they’d “quote” many “verses” and even though they mostly stopped responding to me in when I kept on proving them wrong, I do not believe I changed anyone’s mind because they are brainwashed from birth. To believe in a “trinity of 3 persons” as Catholics do that supposedly created and run the world you have to be pretty stupid. To believe that a divine “father” who is their god but needs help from an earthly son who supposedly has divine powers and became their 3rd god but who is killed by humans is stupid. And the poor “holy spirit” who is there as an afterthought and barely mentioned… But still, most of them wouldn’t change their mind but they’d “quote” more verses… So after awhile I stopped arguing with them and just wrote that Jews say every day the verse in the Torah, in Deuteronomy chapter 6, “hear Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is One”. According to Tanach, belief in a human being as a god is idol worship. Belief in gods other than the One Creator of the universe is paganism. That’s all I write because I won’t waste my time with brainwashed people. And they have nothing to answer me.
The same is with a Lubavitche who believes the Rebbe is physically alive and who runs the world. They are so brainwashed, they believe in something so bizarre that it’s a waste of time to argue with them. The Rebbe died, there was a lavayah, the rebbe was buried, there is a ohel they daven in, there is no physical Rebbe around anymore, and yet the STILL believe the Rebbe is PHYSICALLY alive! Can there be something more stupid than this? Apparently yes, because they also believe their (dead) Rebbe runs the world! Sometimes I will respond to Lubavitche when they say things like “Moshe Rabbeinu also ran the world” …but when they start “quoting” Gemorahs and Rashis I don’t bother because they are simply taking things out of context or openly making things up. Then I say, “shma Yisroel Hashem Elokienu Hashem Echaddddd!”
My last comment was on a video. I forgot to include the video or the moderator decided not to post it. I posted the video with my last comment again but YW didn’t post it. For anyone who is confused what my my last comment is about, I was commenting on a video from a Chabad “rabbi”.
I find that the insinuation that Hashem “changed His mind” to “demonstrate” how the Rebbe could’ve changed his mind to be absolutely revolting. Hashem revealed the Torah when he had a people to give to, when it was the right time in the creation for a nation to accept the Torah, He does not change His mind, the conditions change! Same as with anything else in the Torah where it may appear to humans that “Hashem changed His mind”; the conditions changed, not Hashem’s mind! The speaker could’ve used the argument that the conditions changed and therefore the Rebbe’s opinion changed regarding “yechi”, but he did not do so. Instead they are so used to deifying the Rebbe that they resort to actual kefira to try to in their mind “minimize” Hashem’s power and greatness so that they can “compare” their Rebbe’s actions to Hashem! Total idolatry!
Qwerty, that is true about people following the yetzer hora straight to shaul tachtis with their belief in a human being having divine powers.
But a bigger danger is that non-Chabad Chareidim do not realize and do not care what Lubavitchers believe in. The apathy of frum people to the fact that there is a new religion growing out of the Chareidi world is appalling to me, it is a chillul Hashem. There are also many people who refuse to believe that Lubavitchers believe this nonsense. I personally do not know Chabad well enough to say for a fact how much of a percentage believe in this ideology, but from what I’ve seen online and communicated with Chabad individuals over their beliefs, this ideology seems more like it is being taught in mainstream Chabad today.
Dear Chabad, I’d like to request a physical visit to your physically alive Rebbe that is here with us physically on Earth.
sechel, you are twisting yourself out of shape just like the Christians are. They are always “quoting” verses of Tanach, but mis-translating and misconstruing the meaning of the verses itself, as well taking them out of context.
The Tanach and Talmud consistently and continously teach us, over and over again, there is one consistent message, that Hashem is One, the only One, who runs the world. Nothing in Tanach or Gemorah, contadicts this basic fact. It is my conclusion, as someone who has studied the history and religion of Christianity (and other religions) and after having argued with Christians, that those Lubavitchers who believe that the Rebbe is alive and that he runs the world are absolutely going down the same route the Christians have gone. These Lubavitchers (who believe this ideology) and Christians first believed in someone as the moshiach. Then, when their moshiach died they “revived” him because moshiach can’t be dead, but for him to “live” after his death he needs to have some “divine” powers. So they attribute divine powers to him and in that way he becomes to them , in the early stages of developement of their false religion, an almost an “equal” to Hashem…after awhile their idol becomes, in their eyes, an equal to Hashem.
I have heard some of their “rabbis” talk and I’m utterly shocked at not only the nonsense, but the kefira that spouts from their mouths. If mainstream Lubavitchers do not believe in all of this kefira do they they protest this? Maybe they do. I don’t know Chabad well enough to know this.