philosopher

And let me modify my last comment-i am not talking about the Lubavitche and pro-Lubavitche bringing sources that moshiach can come from the dead, my point in my last post is that they are arguing on Ramban and Ramban who said that moshiach can’t come from dead.

RightJew, exactly. We see how many Jews are becoming weakened in the face of the onslaught of Chabad missionaries sounding very knowledgeable and dropping meforshim left right and center despite it proving nothing to support their avodah zora. But people become confused easily because they “sound like talmidie chachomim”. Meanwhile, you have one of their “talmud chuchem rabbis” like Manis Friedman claiming that Hashem has “needs” like a human being has needs and that is why He created humans to serve his needs and that there’s no gehinom and gan eden we should only do mitzvas because Hashem “needs” that…he’s just one of their crazy “rabbis” spouting kefira mamesh.

B’kitzer, their Chabadianity ideology is version #2 of Christianity which in summary is to upgrade the rebbe with the “atzmus emehus mlebush haguf” line to deity level and at the same time to downgrade the greatness of Hashem so that for them they pretty much even out in the end. Total and complete avodah zora.

The danger is that non-Chabad people can become confused by these Lubavitche looking so frum (the men at least) and even being “so knowledgeable in Torah” and they don’t chap that they spout non-sense by using pesukim, Chazal and meforshim to prove absolutely nothing because nothing in the Torah supports their ideology.

Arso, so did you clarify yet with a talmid chuchem if “Yacov lo mes” means that Yacov’s guf is physically alive? Because as I’ve said, I have never heard a rav or talmid chuchem say that it means that his guf is alive and ive listened to many of them speaking on the subject. I’ve only heard it from Lubavitche and you. Don’t calk me an apikorus when I’m saying what I heard from talmidei chachumim. Perhaps you are the apikorus. You should clear that up with a reputable, non-Chabad, rabbi.

As I’ve said, if you have a Rabbi or talmud chuchem saying that Yacov lo mes means that Yacov’s guf is alive n his kever then post the rabbi’s name on this thread or the other one. (Still) Awaiting your response.

Neville, first of all, to make it clear, i never pretended to be an “authority” on anything. Ive made it abundantly clear who i am. The mistake you make is that you think Menachem Shmei is an authority when he is regurgitating Lubavitche talking points which I’ve seen all of them in many of articles on many Lubavitche websites. You get scared of the noise he makes.

Now here’s the thing you write that absolutely disgusts me. You write “Case and point, davar Torahs are inherently less likely to take a literal approach on anything since anyone could just go and read the Rashi or pshat for themselves” . Eexcuse me. It is Menachem Shmei who keeps on writing that Rashi says “Yacov lo mes” literally! He believes that Yacov Avinu is PHYSICALLY alive simply because of the words that Rashi writes “Yacov lo mes”. And yet you give him a pass because hes a man. But since I’m a woman, when i say that Rashi is not contradicting a b’fesrishe posuk in Veyechi which proves that Yacov mes and Rashi saying that Yacov lo mes can mean that he is spiritually alive or like the Gemorah is saying that he is alive through his descendants, that is “not interesting” “dvar Torah” because I’m a woman who didn’t learn in yeshiva”. Unbelievable.

Arso, I forgot to mention in my previous comment that the rabbi you ask about Yaacov lo mes should not be a Lubavitche rabbi as i will not take their response as valid. The question again is: is Yaacov Avinu alive physically, is his guf alive mamesh, and if yes, what does that mean? Is his gif breathing while being comatose? Eagerly awaiting your answer, the philosopher.

And your point is?

I’ve listened to many shuirim from talmidei chachomim on the subject of Yaacov lo mes and NONE said that Yaacov Avinu is physically alive.

So what’s your point in opening this thread? You want to “prove” as well that Yaacov Avinu is physically alive?

Ozempic is a worldwide obsession. It’s the new bandaid to compensate for the West’s overprocessed, sugary and fatty diet. It is not only the “new grift in the heimishe world”, but all the overweight celebrities are using it and literally millions of overweight and obese people globally are using Ozempic, Wegovy and similar drugs help to lose weight.

Coffee addict, I hear you, but I not starting a new thread about “my feelings”. The fact is that Shmei was upset at the mods for letting through “personal attacks” and he shouldn’t be the one complaining about it when he does that to others, that’s all I’m saying.

Qwerty, you are totally right.

Arso, I dont make fun of Rashi because Rashi says Yaacov lo mes (which could mean many things like he is spiritually alive, for example), he does not say that his body physically stayed alive; that is yours and Menachem Shmei’s and the Lubavitchers interpretation.

Gadolhadorah, what questions am i asking that you claim i deem to be intellectually sound? I am simply asking if what is said and shown in the videos are believed by Lubavitche in general and by the Lubavitche posters here specifically. These are not intellectual questions. They are very simple questions. What does Chodesh Elul have to do with stopping to ask whether the Lubavitche posters, and the Lubavitche in general, believe that their rebbe runs the world, believe that they can pray to their rebbe, that he’s everywhere, that he’s physically alive, and that he never makes mistakes? What is intellectual about asking if it is ok to give an aliyeh to a dead rabbi, to write a letter 30 year after his death that hes not available for the next few days because hes not feeling well, to pray to their rebbe’s chair and other such behavior? These are not intellectual questions, they are simple questions from Lubavitche about their beliefs and behavior.

Why pinkt in choidesh elul should we not ask these questions?

Are you talking about my video links to two Lubavitche rabbis speeches? Are you saying that showing what they say is an attack on you? Or the other link to the video that show Chabad behavior that was posted briefly and then taken down? How can you say they are “cheap means to attack other posters” when you agree with what is said and done in the videos? If you don’t think there’s anything wrong with the speeches and behavior of these Lubavitche how are these videos an attack against you? If you do think the speeches and behavior is wrong why don’t you say so? I’ve asked you numerous times if you agree to what they say and do.

These links are not attacks, these links are simply show the ideology of Chabad by showing what Lubavitche say and do between each other. If you percieve these links showing what Lubavitche really believe in to be an attacks on Lubavitche posters then you are embarrassed by the content because, despite being brainwashed with this ideology, you know that it’s wrong.

Stop being hypocritical. You ignore my questions regarding what Lubavitche believe. I post these videos to show what Lubavitche believe. If you disagree with the content of the videos then it should be embarrassing to you. If you don’t disagree with the content you cannot take it as a personal attack.

Qwerty, they know deep down that their worship of their rebbe is wrong and that is exactly why can’t stop “defending” their beliefs that Yaacov is buried alive, that it’s “sinas chinum” to fight against Chabad idolatry, and all other deliberately skewed beliefs they use it to “prove them right” because that is the blanket they hide under under. If the blanket is ripped away they have to face their idolatrous beliefs. They are not looking for the truth, they are dishonest. Therefore, I checked out. I’m ignoring all their arguments that are covers for their idolatrous beliefs and I’m repeating the same core questions about their beliefs that they refuse to answer.

You were the one that advised me not to engage in conversation with the snake like Chava, I suggest you do the same. Just like all who engage and engaged in idol worship throughout history, they cling to their beliefs regardless. You said yours, just let it go. We can and should talk about it their idolotry but it’s a waste of time to continue arguing with them, it is their choice to believe what they believe in.

I find it incomprehensible how any “frum” person can vote for a Democrat/liberal when they support everything that is an abomination to Hashem. In addition, they have no plans to secure the border and of course,

Gigi, do you believe that the Lubavitche rebbe is running the world, that you can pray to him, that he’s everywhere, that he’s buried alive, that he never makes mistakes?

Yankel berel, you are waiting for answers you won’t get.

Regarding Yaacov Avinu being physically alive Menachem Shmei can argue non-stop. But Menachem Shmei is eerily quiet about the Lubavitche beliefs that the rebbe is running the world, that they can pray to him, that he’s everywhere, that he never made/makes mistakes (remember he’s still physically alive so he is still not making mistakes)…

Just the same, Menachem Shmei will not answer on the Ramban’s and Rambam’s psak on a moshiach sheker not fullfilling the prophecies during their lifetimes and how it applies to their moshiach sheker because he’s afraid to tell you that he believes that his rebbe is still physically alive. He knows when he will “sound like a legitimate talmud chachum” and when he will come off looking stupid…

This is a crucial part why Lubavitche NEED their rebbe to have been buried alive because if he is still physically alive his “nevuah” can still come true.

Arso, you seem very excited to constantly be busy that I’m a woman and I’m not a talmud chuchem, i should ask a talmud chuchem, i dont know how to learn, and you are a man and you went to yeshiva… again and again. It seems like you have an inferiority complex that makes you feel good if you repeat something you think will “put the other person in their place…”

Anyway, talking about talmidei chachumim, I’ve heard different shuirim on Rashi on Yaacov lo meis by talmidei chachmim and they gave different explanations, not that his body is alive but that a part of his soul lives dormant in his body, that he lives through his descendants and other explanations. So perhaps you will pasken that those who gave these shuirim are amei haratzim and apikorsim c”v because they said that “not that it means that Yaacov is physically alive” but that it means something else?

Perhaps you should be the one asking talmidei chachumim if Yaacov was buried alive.

BTW, my reference to Safaria is not my endorsement of them. I have read somewhere that they mistranslated a word with a woke translation. I don’t remember what the word is and I haven’t come across it.

Qwerty, you wrote:
“I spoke to a Rav yesterday and he clarified the position I took last week. As stated Rambam’s approach is to eschew the phantasmagoric. Therefore we are enjoined to look for Hashem in the rational world. This Rabbi added the following, Hashem can and has transcended natural law, however we only say that this happened when we have clear-cut proof to that effect. Therefore if a Rishon said the following, “For Yaakov to be alive after 2000 years plus violates natural law, but I have definite proof that it is factually true then if no other equal authority challenges this we would have to accept it” If however, Rishonim are making ambiguous statements then no, we don’t dismiss Rambam. And, of course, adding to the equation is that Chabad has a Negias in the matter. If they can con people into believing that Yaakov is actually alive it allows them to sell the garbage that the Kofer is also alive. Any way you slice it, the question is closed unless you’re a lying, psychotic Lubavicher”

Indeed, ambiguous verses are part of Tanach too. All these thousands of years klal Yiroel knew how to study Torah. But some groups and individuals try to use Torah to give legitimacy to their idolatrous ideology so they’ll ignore when the posuk or chazal say things clearly and misinterpret things that seem ambiguous to “prove” their claims even though their beliefs clearly contradicts the Torah. It is easy to misinterpret things when its taken out of context. Within context it cannot be misinterpreted. Because, for example, when we read the entire parshas vayechi, how Yaacov took his last breath, the brothers of Yosef saw that their father died” etc. you know when the Rashi says Yaacov lo mes that it could mean many things but not that Yaacov is physically alive…but the Lubavitche disregard that it clearly says that Yaacov died because it doesn’t serve their purpose just like Christians will point to a verse out of context and claim that it proves that their religion is true even though every part of their religion, from Yoshke being the messiah to believing that God can be a physical being, their entire religion contradicts the Torah and yet they try to use Tanach as “proof” that their religion is legitimate…

Menachem shmei and arso thought that I didn’t know the difference from the rif and the rif on iyin yaacov and that made them feel like they won the debate. I clearly said in one of my previous posts which they missed and which I’m too lazy to look up now which number it is, that I do not have a copy of the iyin yaacov on me. I said that because i knew that it’s not in gemarah . What I was looking for in Gemara is if the rif’s (yes, the one from the 11th century) wrote on yaacov lo mes. Maybe my second post where i repeated a request if theres a link to the rif’s commentary on yaacov lo meis or the iyin yaacov’s commentary on yaacov lo mes was confusing and didnt differentiate the two, I don’t know and can’t can’t be bothered to look at it again, but whatever the case it’s irrelevent to the fact that neither Yaacov Avinu nor the Lubavitche rebbe is buried alive.

What is relevant is whether it was the Tzedoikim, the Early Christians who were Jews, or the Christians and Messianic “Jews” today, the Keruim, Shabsi Tzvi and his followers, and all kinds of groups in history who tried/try to prove from Torah sources that their beliefs are true but in reality are contradictory to Toras Moshe M’Sinai, they all veered off from True Path eventually and so will Chabadians who believe that their rebbe runs the world and you can pray to him and all kinds of a”z beliefs.

Menachem shmei and arso, I’ve said clearly, I’m not a talmud chochem, I’ve said clearly I’m a woman. So as I’ve said clearly, please link the iyin yaacov to yaacov lo mes from a different source. I’m not taking a source that partners with Chabad as valid. Don’t link it, just point to it if it’s not allowed on the yeshiva world. Safaria has the iyin yaacov and as I’ve said before, I wasn’t able to find it there. So refer the page where it says on Sefaria or anywhere else. I never, ever said it’s not written in at all, I asked for a link because i wanted to see it in context and its not readable on the link Shmei gave.

The fact is that with all the “I’m a woman and can’t learn”, it is Arso who claimed that it says in taanus 13 that yaacov laughed when eisov’s eye fell out. Which was wrong of course and me the not talmud chochem woman pointed you in the right direction where it written, in Sotah 13a. But more importantly, I wasn’t going to take from you an out of context quote just “because you are a male”, I’m not letting you tell me what it says and where it says because it’s false. Just as false as Shmei claiming that “Rashi said Yaacov lo meis literally” is false. Just like shmei claimed that taanis 5b “proves” that Yaacov was buried alive when it clearly says in taanus 5b that Rav Yitchak quoted a posuk from yermiyah , it does not say at all, in any way shape or form, that yaacov was buried alive.

I’m very open with the sources I quote from, where I quote it from. There are two meforshim, the rif and iyin yaacov on the page of menachem’s shmei’s link. I knew very well that the rif on the iyin yaacov was from the 17th century and the rif on the gemarah is the from the 11th century. However, despite your laughter, the rif from the 11th century is ALSO a commentary on the gemerah just not on taanis 5b. Seeing the seperate commentaries of rif and iyin yaacov on the same page the the Gemorah on page of Shmei’s link is what i wanted clarified and read in context, if there were such commentaries exist. And that is one of the reasons, besides that it’s not readable, that I asked for a different source. I still find it interesting, OK downgraded from suspicious, that I was not able to find it anywhere only on a non-readable copy from Shmei’s Chabad-affiliated link.

Just because you two are male does not give you two an excuse to ignore

1. a befereshe posuk in Vayechi that the brothers of Yosef saw that their father died.

2. Misinintrepret CLEAR words from the Chumash, gemarah and other meforshim

3. Ignore the fact that only Hashem runs the world, He is the only one you are allowed to pray to, He is the Only One who is every and never made nor never will make mistakes. To believe all this about the rebbe is idolatry.

Since you two are men and ou know better thna me, the non-talmud chuchem woman, you would think that you’d know better not to make your own misinterpretations on Chumash and Chazal.

Menachem Shmei’s response to my recap of Lubavitche beliefs (and his evasion to answering my direct questions to him on the other thread regarding his beliefs) is a response that dodges what he truly believes in.

If Lubavitche who believe the rebbe is running the world and believe in all other things I mentioned in my recap wouldn’t think deep down that there’s something wrong with those beliefs they’d be open about their believing in the things listed in my recap. On the other hand, if they actually don’t believe in what i wrote in my recap then they’d say that openly and also explain that whatever ive read in Chabad articles written for Lubavitche and videos ive seen by Lubavitche “rabbis” are fringe beliefs, not the mainstream. Instead, Menachem Shmei and the Lubavitche I spoke to on another site do not deny that they believe in these things, they don’t admit it either, they just try to divert attention from directly answering what their beliefs are and instead they try to manipulate Torah sources to make it seem as if the Torah sources support their beliefs, which they themselves can’t admit clearly to the public that they believe in, but the “sources (supposedly) admit it for them” …Very dishonest, but that’s the only way they can claim, at least to themselves, that their “beliefs are legitimate”.

To recap:
The Lubavitche believe that:
1. Their rebbe is physically alive
2. Their rebbe is running the world
3. Their rebbe is everywhere
4. They can pray to their rebbe and he’ll help them
5. Their rebbe never makes mistakes (I wrote it in present tense because they believe he’s still alive and so to this day he doesn’t make mistakes just like he never made mistakes when his physical body was still seen with their physical eyes in 770…Yes, even now when he’s buried alive and can’t move, or maybe he can move in his kever (it’s a very complicated situation, only a Lubavitche can understand it), he is still not making any mistakes.

Avodah zora, avodah zora, avodah zora. Shame on those who believe this ideology. Shame on those who don’t speak up against it. Shame on those who know the Lubavitche ideology but still eat food with their hechsher and daven in their shuls.

ויחי קאפיטל נ פסוק ט”ו: וַיִּרְא֤וּ אֲחֵֽי־יוֹסֵף֙ כִּי־מֵ֣ת אֲבִיהֶ֔ם וַיֹּ֣אמְר֔וּ ל֥וּ יִשְׂטְמֵ֖נוּ יוֹסֵ֑ף וְהָשֵׁ֤ב יָשִׁיב֙ לָ֔נוּ אֵ֚ת כׇּל־הָ֣רָעָ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר גָּמַ֖לְנוּ אֹתֽוֹ׃
It’s a mefureshe pasuk in the Torah that Yaakov Avinu meis. You cannot argue on a pasuk in the Torah. The Gemara is an agadata.

Qwerty, also, I forgot to mention in my previous post, I’m not a guy…I understand if people think I’m a male because I engage in these kinds of arguments, but I’m not.