philosopher

I don’t think these tests are accurate. Besides for Africans, most people globally are descendents of immigrants and mixed races. How do they have markers to test these “races”? The Sephardi and Ashkenazi groups are only a few hundred years old, how can they test Ashkenazi and Sephardim ancestry (as opposed to Michzrachim that were a distinct group from hundreds of years longer)? Sephardim have lived in Europe, not only in the Middle East and Africa, since the Spanish Inquisition, so how can they tell apart people by their genes when they lived on the same continents and in the same countries? Are minhugim part of their genes?

Identical twins and triplets who took these DNA tests often had completely different results from one another and regardless of all these “scientific” explanations, I’m not buying it. Siblings, especially if they are identical, should have the same, or very similar, genes makeup.

The Netziv denies that men own their wives, as I assume Joseph is trying to “prove” with his continuously saying men are “masters” over their wives. And which point I refuted by showing that “masters” does not technically mean that others, whether they are wives, students or Yisroeilim are “subjegated” to the whims of their “masters” and obligated to biddings of their supposed their “masters” i.e. husband’s, Rabbis, and Cohanim, indiscriminately…The word “masters” is an English word. The original Loshen Hakodesh words that can translate to word “master” come in many forms, but the point is that these words define a PART of a relationship and doesn’t necessarily mean that the entire relationship revolves around a “master” subjegating his “servants” rather that within certain relationships there are certain rights one has, or certain rules that one must obey, to be able for the relationship to function correctly.

The Netziv says that proof that the husband does not own the wife is the fact that a husband is obligated to support a wife (Kesubos 58b) however a wife can opt out of this partnership by declaring herself independent (so that her wage will not have to go to her husband) and the husband is not obligated to support her anymore. This is in direct contrast to a slave who has no opt out options of declaring himself financially independent.

The Netziv says that a husband only owns SPECIFIC rights to his wife, these rights I will not bring up here, one can do their own research if they desire to do so. However, these rights have nothing in common with a women being “subservient” to her husband, as Joseph would like us to believe.

Many Rishonim state specifically that husband’s do not own their wives, for example see Rashba on kiddushin in 6b.

I am NOT a Torah scholar, nor do I have the time at this point in time to look up the MANY sources on this issue. However, I am simply bringing these sources now just to show that there are out there.

If I have more time, I will more research.

As I said, to quote pesukim and claim that one’s own view of the meaning of the posek translates into “halacha” is a dangerous view. According to the “translation” of masters or rulers in the Torah, a rebbi can be called a master over a student as could a Cohen be a master over a Yisroel. Does this give an halachik right to a rebbi or Cohen to use the student or the Yisroel as a servant ? Is the student or Yisroel a personal servant to their master or masters? It’s such a ridiculous insinuation that it is laughable, just as it is laughable that a husband is master over his wife or rules over his wife in a way that she is a servant to her husband. It’s despicable and ridiculous to think along those lines in terms of supposedly physical power the Torah supposedly gives for the “masters” over the “subservients”. That is not what the Torah means and anyone who has any understanding of Judaism understands the relationship of Rabbis and students and Cohanim and Yisreolim and anyone with a healthy mental capacity also understands that the relationship of a husband and wife in Judasim has no relation to a master and slave type of relationship.

The fact that it says in Bereishis 3:16 that the husband will rule over the wife is not any indication of any halacha that the wife must do her husband’s bidding discriminately, nor it is not any indication that a husband and wife relationship means that the wife is a servant to her husband. This posek means that women were cursed, after Chava convinced Adam to eat from the eitz hadas, that men will be a stronger force in marriage. Men were cursed as well to toil in the fields for their bread ( i.e. work hard for their parnasoh). It is a curse, not a halacha, that men are masters in marriage.

Bereishis 18:12 That Sara Imaeinu called her husband “master” is an indication of respect to her husband and not an indication that she was a servant or had a servant/master type of relationship with Abraham Avinu.

Chabadshlucha, what you write regarding women in general giving in (and everything else you wrote as well) is so true. Women generally do care more about their relationships. And usually women also care more how things affect the entire family as well and will therefore give in so that the family can function normally instead of being in a state of war or tension. And this is takeh a curse, as you write. There is no halacha stating that women must give in. But at the same time women are givers as Hashem is gives to us (as the Sages teach us this is what the bracha sheusani kirtzono means), so although it is a curse because it is not easy to give in, we still thank Hashem for creating us as givers.

Chabadshlucha, I am a woman and am not sufficiently learnt enough to bring down the exact sources that would point to the superiority of women. But as we know, in some places it is bought down that women are on a higher spiritual plane than me and therefore are exempt from many mitzvos because we don’t need these mitzvos to bring us closer to Hashem. But I’m too busy, especially now with cooking for Yom Tov meals, and honestly too lazy as well, to do all the research and post the relevant sources.

To Joseph I say, if I were to post these sources that state that women are superior and are smarter in certain ways because of our binah yesierah and bring the sources stating that men should listen to their wives and that women are superior spiritually to men, would it not be ridiculous of me to quote these sources and make a blanket statement in general are superior then men?

According to the Torah AND Rabbinical sources,men have strengths and weaknesses as separate genders AND as individuals. No one is superior or subservient based on their genetics. We build ourselves spiritually through our actions. Therefore, if a man is not acting the way he’s supposed to or making ridiculous and irrational demands of his wife, then a wife listening to such a husband and being subservient to him, then is nothing more than a chossid shoita. No person can be degraded because we are not suberservient to the other gender. We are only suberservient to Hashem!

In some frum communities, unfortunately, minding everyone’s business seems to be a way of life. I think this is because Jews are very curious and also opinionated. So if you combine that you have nosiness, which basically means you stick your nose into people’s lives and then salivate about it, chew it over, talk about it… It’s the Jewish kind of entertainment. If people get hurt in the process, well you only mean their good-they’ve got to hear the truth. The only people who don’t have a problem with this is are those that fit neatly in “THE FRUM BOX”. That’s because there is nothing to talk about them. And then everyone wonders why the frum oilim is basically dancing to the same tune, without independant talk or action (except on the web, of course).

The only way we need to be carbon copies of each other is in living l’shem shmayim. But as individuals we don’t need to be carbon copies in the way we live our frum lives. But if you move out of line, you’ll be fodder for the Jewish entertainment scene.

Do people honestly believe that mosherose truly feels, for example, that you are not allowed to look at one’s wife for an entire lifetime or other similiar comments that he made? Sorry, not me. I don’t believe that he is serious.

There have been numerous instances of BT’s or their children finding out problems regarding if they are 100% halachic Jews or not. I have been saying for the longest time that it’s a big mistake to have this massive BT movement in America (as of today, the Israeli scene is totally different and the BT movement there should be encouraged). I say we should work on ourselves to be better Jews and be a light unto the nations through our behavior. Non religious Jews who want to become frum should know clearly how they are truly Jewish, not assume so.

I am not saying this because I feel callous towards all our Jewish brethren who don’t have the Torah to guide them. I am saying this because I beleive that we CANNOT KNOW, in this 21st generation, who is truly a Jew or not, unless each case is totally investigated and you cannot do that by casting out a net (be it on campus or the streets of Manhattan) and catching every fish that swims through.

I believe mosherose is having fun posting stuff he does not believe in and seeing the reactions to his comments.

Whether he is off-the-derech, I can’t tell. I don’t beleive he is. But he is doing a good job as coming accross as genuine.

It’s normal that kids should fight.

Don’t blame yourself.

“Basically, evolutionary theory is successful at predictions.”

Charliehall, evolutionary THEORY is as succesful at predictions as it is unsuccessful. Nobody could PREDICT how things were before recorded history. Scientists can theorize and make assumptions, no matter how intelligent and smart and knowledgeable they are. But that’s where it ends. They do not KNOW what happened. Evolutionists adopted their theory as a scientific” FACT.

Evolutionary theory is ALL THEORY based on assumptions based on the personal ideoligy of the scientists coming to “scientific conclusions” all “supported” merely on “scientific” assumptions.

You are right though that believing in the process of slow evolution into what the world is today does not contradict believing in a Creator, or even in the fact that the world “as we know it” is 5771 years old. Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan writes about it in one of his books. I forgot how exactly he comes to his conclusion, (of course his ideas are all supported from accepted and revered sources, which he brings forth). I hope I find that book again, as I read it when I was a teenager and forgot exactly how he comes to the conclusion that evolution fits with the way the Torah states how old the world is.

Those scientists and people though who beleive that the world was created by itself, will eventually look as foolish as the ancient Egyptians who believed in their gods. For proof of a Creator we don’t need to go further than to acces our common sense. But as I read somewhere, common sense is very uncommon.

Dating longer is beneficial to avoiding divorce? Yeah can we surely need to learn something from the non-frum, secular society. Ahem. Sure, just look at the low divorce rates in the non-Jewish world. They are not changing spouses like hats, are they? That’s because they not only date for a very long time, but they also live together before marriage. Can you get to know a person better than that? Clearly the sholom bayis in the secular world is one we can learn from.

What exactly will you see when you date for longer? No human walking the face of this earth does not posess negative character traits. Which future spouse’s moral failings which you’ll definitely see more of the longer you date, can you live with? And people that seem nice on dates are not necassarily so. Just because a buchor is courteous to a waiter and says thank you is no indication that he will change the dirty daiper of your two year while your feeding your newborn.

Gumboree fan talking here. They have great quality clothing you can pass down for other kids. (Stains come out nicely with Tide booster).

You can get great prices on Gymboree clothes by signing up online for coupons and working with the gymbucks. Their styles are the cutest ever!

By the way, this is the old philosopher/clearheaded talking here.