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LLW, so why is it ok for you to judge when people don’t act b’tznius? Dressing like a ptitza is ok but acting loud and coarse can be judged? We can discuss both. Yidden should act and dress b’tznius.
However, I will say that sometimes women don’t realize that they talk too loud. They can be made aware. However it’s very obvious to everyone including the women who wear it, that the short skirts that they are wearing is not covering their knees, which is totally against halacha.
Syag Lchochma, you are ok with you talking against those who dress pritzusdig but bashing others who are talking against immodestly dressed wome. Now I have no idea what you are talking about regarding judging these women. No one is judging immodest womens’ characters, nor judging any of their actions outside of the way they dress, no one is judging them in any way other than the way how they appear in the streets.
Funny, I thought the 5 Towns was in Brooklyn.
zahavasdad, I’m sure there are women who dress tzniusdig in the 5 Towns but when you walk down the streets they are full of pritzusdige looking frum women with very long wigs, tight clothing and short skirts. I’m from upstate, but sometimes I find myself in the city in certain frum areas in Brooklyn and the way frum women dress I find is repulsive and irresponsible, and brazenly and publicly trampling on halacha. We have it to a lesser extent where I live, it’s not so bad as certain frum communities in the city. The first time I saw a frum man with a kapl and beard and his wife walking next to him wore a mini skirt I was shocked. This is insanity.
Not dressing b’tznius is not only between a woman and Hashem, it negatively effects others as well.
Torah613ami, I’m sorry but your first comment was not so clear, it seems I misunderstood what you were trying to say. And neither am I sure I understand your second comment regarding kisui rosh. I assume you are asking whether the women in our family wear wigs. Yes we do. That is a separate issue from tznius issues. There are differences in opinions regarding peah nochri but I’m not sure why you think it is rellevent to this thread. We are discussing issues of tznius here, not whether wearing wigs are kosher or not.
torah613ami, I quit posting in the CR awhile ago because my comments to a anti-Semite who kept on sticking up for Fakestinians and bashing Jewish self-defense measures, who was likely Jewish himself, were censored. But now seeing people like you claiming to know halacha when you really don’t want to know basic halachas and you are misleading people, I will comment on that. According to numerous poskim showing the shape of a woman’s figure and showing skin that is ervah is absolutely against halacha.
Just by quoting two sources does not mean that you can ignore the rest of the halachas.
In any case, most of the women who wear tight clothing also wear clothing skirts that do not cover the knee, many wear mini skirts and more and more elbows are being exposed. And tight skirts, even when they cover the knee while standing, will expose the knee when sitting.
And then not everything needs to have a source. Where’s the common sense in people? Things like very long wigs or very long loose hair is pritzus. I’m not sure if there’s a source for that but women need to be b’tnius according to the Torah and need to act and dress accordingly. Does it say in the Torah that you have to brush your teeth every day and drive carefully? It’s common sense! It’s also common sense that if the Torah places such emphasis on tnius it means that even though modern, long wigs are a recent development and not written about in the Torah or other sources, a woman needs to use their head and not wear long wigs because we all know, and you’d be fooling yourself if you deny it, long wigs are not tzniusdig, period.
This horrible situation of frum women looking like prutzos came about precisely because of people like you quoting one or two sources as “proof” that those are the halachas of tznius that we have to be concerned about.
It’s a shanda how many frum women dress. It’s a churban.
And for those who claim it’s loshe hora – it’s not. Those who sin are public are allowed to be spoken about and to be mechazek ourselves and to clarify, these issues must be spoken about. A women who dresses like a frum prutzah is still dressing like a prutzah and causing others to sin.
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Modesty, it is not confusing at all. It is against halacha to expose skin that should be covered and to wear tight clothing. There are numerous sources of halachas on tznius and simply quoting 2 sources means nothing except deliberately choosing halachas that one wants to choose
Well, I have nothing to say anymore if YWN moderators edits my posts personally bashing, yes personally bashing, a terrorist supporter. 000646 lies continuously and is sticking up for a people in comment after comment who want to annihilate us. If I can’t say it as is, I will thank you for the platform you gave me till now and bid you goodbye.
Winnie the Pooh, I did correct my mistake regarding Dovid Hamelech. I usually write my posts in between work when I take a few seconds break and there are instances which I makes with spelling and fatcs which I correct later.
It is true that Am Yisroel started at Har Sinia, however Avraham Avinu was considered the first ger as he practiced the Torah.
I meant to write that Dovid Hamelech was a descendent of a geyoress
. 0002646 says Gaza is only surrounded by Israel and the sea, which is totally untrue. Gaza shares a border with Egypt too and it’s just as closed as Israel’s is. Egypt does not want Fakestinian terrorists and Muslim Brotherhood supporters, which a large percentage of Fakestinians are. But nobody is saying a word against Egypt, only against, drumroll please, Israel! And Israel does open the border (checking everyone going through of course) when the security situation “lightens”.
The Fakestinians make their evil intentions known on social media sites, through their media networks, and through the Hamas charter. That is the reason for the blockade, to prevent them importing arms for use in their “struggle”.
Everyone knows their true intentions
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עצי עצה וספר דברו דבר ולא יקון כי אמנו קל
000646, Gaza is sealed at the ISREALI BORDER as EVERY country seals their borders to the best of their abilities. Or do you have a double standard for Israel that they can’t seal their border? Maybe Egypt should open their border with Gaza?! Why do you think Israel should open their border and let hordes of terrorists cross over into Israel?!
And I couldn’t give a hoot and I never concerned myself whether the Fakestinians had or didn’t have citizenship because I totally understand the fact they didn’t did not have citizenship. The Fakestinians wouldn’t appreciate citizenship and it it would be a big problem like the Muslim Arabs in East Jerusalem, only a bigger security issue because more terrorists would be involved. So I certainly don’t shed any tears over the fact that they had no citizenship.
In any case, stop harping on what was, now they have their own government, including in the West Bank where Israel CANNOT do what they want, except in your mind.
000646, didn’t you see the bright red exit signs? You are repeating the same stupidity over and over again. The Fakestinians have their own governments that THEY ELECTED. Stop blaming Jews for the Fakestinian troubles.
5ish, yes, it’s a good idea to open a thread discussing if women can walk in the street. Especially if they may שפאטציר in the street.
And we should also discuss the issue of men leaving their houses because it’s impossible for men in chutz l’areretz not to see something Chazal asured…so maybe we should have a thread about that. Maybe we should discuss if they really have a need to go out, they should they wear blinders or perhaps carry a stick…we need to discuss these vital issues.
Bashalmuder, I’ve met many light-colored Sephardim in my life. I once went to a genuine Sephardishe shul in London and I was surprised that many people there were blond. From features you cannot see know whether one is Ashkenazi or Sephardi. Generally though, Middle Eastern people are darker. Even Ashkenazim living in Israel, living on kibbutzim and serving in the army, i.e. being out in the sun a lot, can make light people, and their descendents, darker.
You make it sound as if geirim are something bad. Avraham Avinu was a geir, The imuos were geirim, Dovid Hamelech was a geir, etc. So all of klal Yisroel are descendents of geirim.
These type of DNA tests, where one tests their ancestry, is totally inconclusive. Unlike testing against the blood of one’s close relative to see if they are related, ancestry testing is testing against whom? You obviously can’t compare your DNA with your ancestor’s DNA, so who are the markers that decide which group has which DNA? Immigrants, that’s who! If you study history you see that the world’s population has always migrated and mixed. DNA tests cannot prove one’s ancestry as a conclusive fact.
5ish, it doesn’t. And that’s my point. Many posts become derailed to the topic of women can’t do this and women can’t do that and women are subersvient to their husbands, etc. It is very annoying, not to mention hypocritical. And I can’t take hypocrasy and the need to be farfrum on yenems cheshbon.
Neville ChaimBerlin, +1
NevilleChaim, I honestly think judges should and COULD set bail accrording to a defendant’s records, not the news.
AviK, so what if prosecutors ask for more bail and defense attorneys for less? How does that make Friere’s decision ok? She should have set higher bail, he was a potential murderer and regardless if the charges bought forth didn’t say he was racist, the facts prove otherwise.
And as I said before, bail is set at according to judge’s whims and she should have a little decency to set bail higher for attempted murder than a mere $15,000. It shows a remarkable DISREGARD for the lives of Jews
Well, as we have seen “Joseph”, the greatest posek ever, whiling away his time in the Coffeeroom, while all Rishonim and Achronim whom he quotes constantly would asser his bitul Torah. ( He somehow doesn’t accept poskim of our time, he only accepts “sources” till the Shilchun Arach, every gadol after that is not relevant.) But he’s frum on womens’ cheshbon… Women can’t go on a שפאטציר …
Even I, the defender against calling him a troll, have to admit he’s a troll because I don’t believe he really holds of his far-out opinions, he just likes riling people up.
CTLawyer, what part of the fact that she asked for less than the recommended bail is not understood? And I’m not familiar with the law but I’ve heard of judges setting outrageous bail amounts for lesser offenses and for not particularly well off individuals. That would indicate to me that bail is set according the the judge’s discretion.
000646, that exactly what a lot of Jew haters say. I don’t hate Jews, I don’t condone terror, etc. It’s all a bunch of baloney when you support people who commit terror and are committed to engaging in terror. You are a Jew hater and terrorist supporter.
I mean a Chareidi murderer is troubling, not the headline.
00646, really now, it was the Arabs right to refuse the Partition Plan… because they were mostly immigrants and children of immigrants? Just exactly who decided they didn’t have to accept it? Are you also going to condone their starting a war against Jews?
Both are troubling but Mizrachi and secular spiritual decline is definitely worse, like a spreading cancer.
The fact that she changed the $30,000 recommended bail to $15,000 sends a terrible message to the terrorist and the world at large that we don’t care so much about our own brothers and sisters.
Loshenhora, don’t equate Jews fighting for survival to Muslims shedding of innocent blood.
Joseph, according to all shittas you are wasting your time in the CR instead of learning Torah every moment in your life.
You did mention that Sara Imeini stayed home all day and because of yeridas hadoros we women don’t stay home all day…
Now, since you are a big posek on women’s issues, while disregarding your obligations, according to all shittas, let’s hear how many times per month according to you the Rambam meant women can out.
000646, you are missing the fact that the Arabs attacked Jews and Jews won the war. You are missing the fact that Jews had to control the area because they needed to prevent it becoming bases for terrorists which is exactly what happened after Israel gave over control to the Arabs. Now there are constant fights on the border with these wild animals trying to come into Israel and ATTACK Jews. Now we have rockets coming in from Gaza and helium balloons which has destroyed half of Israel’s nature reserves and personal property of innocent people.
Joseph, Israel should annex Judea, Samaria, and Gaza and if the Arab Muslims accept Israel and live peacefully as other Arab minorities do, (which won’t happen in any case…) then I would grant them citizenship.
I would also initiate a program that would encourage Arab Muslims to emigrate to other Arab countries and encourage Jews to move to Judea, Samaria and Gaza to balance the Jewish and Muslim populations.
000646, lies again. The Fakestinians had a problem before Jews took control of the land. The Fakestinians had a problem when Jews started coming in large numbers, before and after WW2, during the times of the Ottoman and British rule.
And Jews did take take control of the land the Fakestinians LIVED ON, NOT GOVERNED, because they had no goverment at all untill the land was devided between Jews and Fakestinians so Jews did not control the Fakestinians at the time the Fakestinians attacked the Jews in an all-out war.
Joseph, you said women should stay home like Sarah Imeini. You didn’t say women should not go out much.
The fact is, today the most frum women, including Rebbetzins of big gedolim, go out shopping, to simchos, work, etc. “Much” is a relative term.
Every frum women should go out when she needs to go out, regardless if the greatest posek ever “Joseph in the YWN Coffeeroom” approves of her going out or not.
000646, of course, you conviently neglected to mention that Gaza, the terrorist entity that the Fakestinians set up, because I assume you won’t go that far with your lies, and you know good and well that Israel has no control in Gaza. So why are you blaming Israel now that the Fakestinians have a government? And in the West Bank, the Israelis go in and out of Fakestinian controlled areas only with the coordination of the PLO.
Of course the Fakestinians weren’t given an option of citizenship, since they they rejected Israel, why would they be given an option?!
And you neglect to respond to the fact that when Palestine was devided between Jews and Arabs, it was the Arabs who attacked Jews. It really seems like you’d love that to happen again. You care so much about the Fakestinians, you want them to have a state so they can do what they say they want to do, attack Jews and get them out of the entire Palestine.
You ignore the FACT that the majority of Fakestinians have not lived in Palestine for hundreds of years, most of them emigrated in the latecan20th and early 21 St centuries.
Anyways, my point that you are continously ignoring is how can a Jew support a people that overwhelmingly say they want to kill Jews?! How can a Jew support a people engaged in constant violence angainst other Jews? There’s no excuse ever for this violence,but particularly now that they have their own government and army, so how can a Jew side with such a people? Shame on you, traitor to your people.
000646, it is completely false that the Fakestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are under Israeli control. That is a lie. The Fakestinians are prohibited from entering Israel without permits, they are prohibited from tunneling and trying to force their way over the border like they are doing now, but they are absolutely not under direct Israeli control. The Israelis TRY to control Hamas from getting weapons ( it is helping only to a certain extent) and control what goes in and out of Israel. They cannot control what happens in Gaza or the West Bank. It is Hamas and the PLO who control Gaza and the West Bank.
Your concern over the plight of the plight of the “poor Fakestinians” make you lack reading comprehension. I wrote that if the they would be a peaceful people they would be given Israeli citizenship. It is the Fakestinians who rejected Israeli governship and therefore they did not get citizenship.
It is mind boggling that you over and over again repeat the same arguments in support of a people who continue to express their wish to kill Jews.
000646, you don’t even sound like someone with an anti-Zionist shittah. Anti-Zionists are focused on why Jews can’t have their own government and they unrealistically pedal the plan of goyim being the government of Palestine. As if Jews didn’t suffer enough from the Europeans and Muslims, they should now govern Israel. But that is basically what anti-Zonists are busy with.
But you are busy caring for the “plight” of the Fakestinians. You care about these “poor people” and you don’t give a damn hoot about the terror they are committing and the fact that they say outright that they want to kill Jews .
000646, you think Jews can’t be Jew haters? There were enough Jew haters , meshumadim who caused many tzuras for our people, and kapos and leftist liberals who always stuck up for our enemies. Even those in full Chassidish levush, the NK’s are Jew haters. If you care about those who want to destroy us and you don’t care about the the lives and safety of Jews then you are Jew hater, period.
Yes you DID say that they don’t have their own military. So they have a semi-military with their weapons aimed at Israel. They have their own governments, Hamas and PLO, they are not under Israeli control so what exactly do you want now?!
What exactly are you blaming Israel for now?If you are talking about Israeli Arabs, then learn some history and you will see many, many regions all over the world, don’t have the same government today as they had in the previous century. That doesn’t mean citizens can be terrorists and kill others because they want a government from the previous century . And btw, in the case of the Fakestinians, was the Ottomans or the British, they NEVER had their own government so they can’t even demand to get their “independence” back.
Now, just cause you are a Jew does not mean you are not a traitor to our people and that you are not a Jew hater. You want our enemies to have a military, which YOU DID write that earlier. Don’t you care that these are the people that continously say they want to wipe out the Jews? If you were not a Jew hater you wouldn’t be busy writing so many posts in favor of the “poor, opressed Fakestinians” who the majority of them are animals on two feet, full of violence and hate against Jews.
Joseph, now I get why people call you a troll. You somehow manage to fardrei all discussions into arguments of why “according to the Torah” women are subservient to men, why women should stay in their homes” and other such Muslim practices. You shlep together sources thinking you are smarter than all Chassisha, Litvisha and Sephardishe gedolim who pasken differently than the greatest posek ever alive “Jospeh in the YWN Coffeeroom”.
So either you are a troll and are just pretending to really believe in these ideas, or you are simply farikt. If you really believe in these ideas you need to join Lev Tahor ( who knows where they are now…) but they won’t let you have internet access. I can’t see you doing that. You’d rather women be deprived of their liberties than you of yours.
000646, Jew hater, you are repeating your garbage continously. The Arab Muslims had their chance of self-government when Palestine was devided in two, for Jews and Arab Muslims. But the Muslims ATTACKED the Jews and the Jews won the war. That is why Jews ended up governing these lands. And the Fakestinians still continuously attack Jews and are engaged in violence and the “struggle” to gain back ALL of Palestine and throw Jews into the sea. We don’t care about the “rights” of such a violent people , where land given to them turns into terrorist bases so they can continue their goal in killing Jews. But you don’t care about Jewish lives, all you care about is that the Fakestinians have a military. That makes you a Jew hater.
And these Fakestinians have a “government” that they voted in, corrupt, violent, terrorist officials. So stop being busy about them not having a government, they have the kind of government they voted for.
And you are ignoring the FACT that the Bedoiuns, Christians, Druze, Muslims and other non-Jewish minorities living in Israel have full citizenship and if the entire Arab Muslim population would be peaceful, those Arabs living Gaza and the West Bank under Israeli so-called “occupation” would be granted Israeli citizenship which you claim they hadn’t had. What is the problem now? They are under the PLO and Hamas governments and their responsibility now, not Israel’s. So stop harping on the citizenship and government issue. And the PLO is armed, as well as Hamas. So exactly what is your point of them “not having an army”? Do they need to defend themselves against Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt? No, it’s just that you wish they had more leverage to fight the Israelis so that they can fulfill their dreams of throwing Jews into the sea. Disgusting, filthy, Jew hater. You people chatter and plan and wish for our people’s destruction but God is greater and we will always be around.
000646, go back to where you came from, you Jew hater!
You ask how is it fair that the Fakestinians dont have their own military power and goverment?! They need military power to kill more Jews?! Are you insane?!
You are a disgusting Jew hater! They are out to kill us! Whatever land the liberal crazies in Israel has been turned into hotbeds of terrorism! They can’t govern decently the “government” they already have! Are you going to blame Israel too for the subhuman government they have?
And stop with your stupidity that Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank can’t be under Israel’s control because THEY WERE ALREADY under Israel’s control. The problem is that these violent people were not controlled well enough.
Now go back into your hole, go visit the Jew hating, Fakestinian issue supporting forums ( they don’t care about the Fakestinians only the fact that it’s an anti-Jew platform to spewing hatred and lies) and be busy how these “poor Falestinians” don’t have military power and a state ( so that they can shoot more rockets at Jews and stockpile more weapons…)
We are also instructed by Chazal how to treat mechallel Shabbos and those who trample on halacha.
Nobody said anything about wishing anyone dead, only you are talking about such ridiculous things.
And it’s incredibly stupid ( sorry to be so blunt) that you ask if we should hold an OTD responsible for his actions…are you for real? WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS, INCLUDING OTDs.
The little I know, the majority of OTDs are self-centered, chutzpadig, flaunt rules, etc. The behavior bein adam l’chveirah is sorely lacking for most OTDs. Of course, there are exceptions, there are nice OTDs too, but they are not the majority. And that they were all abused is a myth. Only a small percentage was abused, many come from wonderful families and nobody abused them. And many people are in pain, that gives no excuse to abandon Yiddishkeit.
But that’s beside the point. What does it matter about bein adam l’chveirah vs l’makom? Converting to Christianity is also bein adam l’makom, and this is what we are discussing, which is worse.
You write in your comments about “exacting revenge” which nobody was talking about. What in the world are you talking about?!
AviK, sorry I thought you compared them to Native Americans. I see it was actually 000646 who loves the Fakestinians so much that she made them “natives” of the land…
AviK, so you can’t compare them to the Native Americans…
AviK, most Fakestinians have not been living there for hundreds. Read history books and you will see that the land was mostly unhabitated.
Don’t compare the Fakestinians to Native Americans. Fakestinians are not native to Palestine. The people called Palestinians were Jews, Christians, other minorities and ALSO Muslims living in Palestine. Muslim Arab “Palestinians” are a made up nation.
000646, Israel doesn’t have to absorb anybody. They are already living on the land which Israel should not have given away. Only the Israeli government should have governed Gaza and the West Bank AS THEY DID BEFORE the Oslo “Peace” Accords instead of the Hamas and PLO terrorists and Jews should be able to live on those lands AS THEY DID BEFORE the Oslo “Peace” Accords.
Whether the Fakestinians had representatives in the Israeli government or not, I’m not sure about that, I assumed were citizens like the Israeli Muslims living in Israel today. Whatever their status was, they should have representatives. But what is for sure is if they would not have a culture of violence and hatred towards Jews and would be good citizens like the Druze, Christian, and Bedouin Arabs, they would have citizenship as well. It’s their own problem that they want to “reclaim” land that was never theirs to begin with. The census in pre-Israel days show very little inhabitants in Palestine in general, it was a very neglected land. That they came from surrounding countries in the late 20th and early 2st century, and that they were earlier were invaders to the region from the Arabian lands, does not mean that they actually owned these lands. And would they not have started wars with the Jews, in the pre-Israel days and lived in peace with them, there wouldn’t be any issues of who owns what because the land was devided between Jews and Arabs but they didn’t want to accept that. They started the war and the victor get the spoils. Today, they have a choice to stop their “struggle” and start living like human beings not like chayos that they are who need to be contained.
000646, the Fakestinians were Israeli citizens until the “Oslo “Peace” Accord…where land was given over to these terrorists. It could be a fully Jewish state even with Gaza and the West Bank being part of Israel.
The little I know, my life was not a bowl of cherries, to put it mildly. I always tell my kids I had all the reasons to go OTD, but you have to do what Hashem put you in this world for. Hashem gives trials for everyone and He gives the stregnth to o ercome it. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.
Do you think that murderers don’t have good excuses? They were also abused, neglected, etc. Anyone can have excuse for doing evil. This is the 21st century liberal corruptness where we take no responsibility for our actions. This is not the Torah way that clearly says that we have bechira.
Doing my best, no peace with the Arab Muslims living in Israel will not be acheived, certainly not the way the Isrealis government is acting with always being on the defensive. The only way to deal with the Arabs is forcing them into “peace” by showing them that there’s severe consequences for their actions, not one day there’s a “peace plan” and the other day they are slapped on the wrist.
Joseph, what difference does it make that Jews defended themselves against the Arabs who kept on making the Jews’ lives miserable in the early 20th century? The Jews won the wars and that’s only because Hashem wanted it that way and it’s a huge chesed from the Aibishter. If Jews would not gain independence, they would not be able to live in todays’ current atmosphere of Arab violence, regardless if the government would also have representatives of the European and Russian anti-Semites. It is for certain that the Jewsish communities in Eretz Israel would look like the Jewsish communities in Arab countries today, dwindling and shrinking because it would be impossible because of physical safety and mental strain, to live as Jews currently do in most Muslim countries.
akuperma, give me a break, these Muslim Arabs can be part of Israel as other Arabs are. No one is keeping them stateless but their own actions. Jews live in Muslim countries too, the Fakestinians can live as citizens in Israel. And while I would like every Jew to live like a Jew, I fail to see how peace would be acheived if all Isrealis become frum. The Fakestinians live in a culture of violence, many Arabs are busy killing each other today, certainly they have no issue doing that to Jews, so how exactly will peace be acheived if all Jews in Israel are frum?
The little I know, making bad choices is not a mental health issue rather a yetzer hora/tavah issue. Making bad choices is as much a mental issue as all choices we make in life are.
Being self-centered, having bad middos and a weak, undeveloped character, are usually the cause of a person going OTD. Going OTD is in the majority of times not a mental issue.
Sure, I think the bloodthirsty, Jew hating liars from Europe and the Islamic fundamentalists who killed hundreds of thousands in recent years, would make an excellent government for the Jews in Israel … The fact that a huge percentage of goyim have a problem with Jews defending our lives from vicious terrorists and they always stick up for the “poor” Fakestinians, and turn a blind eye to the genuine hatred that exists in those who continue to do terror, would make them fantastic rulers over the Jews, they would certainly care about us…NOT!
Hateful, anti-Semitic people, make up at least 70% of the European, Russian, and Arab Muslim populations. They are descendents, especially Europeans and Russians of the most viscous murderers who murdered and persecuted our ancestors for over 2 millennium and they wouldn’t give a damn if the Arab Muslims, who have been persecuting and killing hundreds of thousands of their own people in recent years, and they have a most violent history too, decide to “take care” of the infidel Jews, c”v.
The Zionists, even the secular ones, are my brothers and sisters. I feel safe walking the streets in Israel while I wouldn’t want to put my pinky over the Gazan border so I don’t think it’s a good idea to make “peace” with such a “peaceloving” people. I hope and daven that the secular Jews should return to the Torah. I also think the majority of Israeli Jews believe in Hashem. I’d rather they govern Israel, I feel much safer (an understatement) with a Jewish government. Please don’t preach to me how Hashem is protecting us and not the Israeli government and IDF. You can say the same about the government in the USA and the American army…Hashem is protecting us so we don’t need the government…it’s stupid argument, we have to do hishtadlus, and this is the most REALISTIC situation for the SAFETY of Jews in Israel, to have a Jewish government. Of course, only Hashem can guarantee our safety, that doesn’t mean we can be stupid.