philosopher

Reb Eliezer, absolutely wrong. Under oath they both testified that their was no quid pro quo. You did not listen to the hearings, I presume.

DassYochid, very well said.

Ubiquitin, ALL who testified said there’s NO quid pro quo. This impeachment process is as ridiculous as spending years on the “Russian investigation” which wasted millions of taxpayers dollars on nothing.

I think the Democrats want Trump to win the next election because many people are voting for him only because they see the stupidity and obvious Democrats political manuavers and shenanigans which people absolutely hate.

frumtd, if a higher divorce rate indicates less dysfunction then the secular society is very, very, very functional…

Creamnosugar, I grew up in a single parent home without being invited to others seudahs, my mother making Kiddush and havdalah, and we grew up fine, thank you very much. Sorry, but I don’t think it’s right to invite young divorced men or women, to Shabbos seudahs on a steady basis. Seudahs are not a place for informal mixing. Elderly people is a different issue, and you may critisize us for not inviting them, but I can think of many more things I can critisize the non-Chassisidishe communities buy of course I won’t, we should see th good in each other, every community has strengths and weaknesses. But I will say that inviting people who are not on our spiritual level to our family tables is a recipe for disaster, especially in these times. And I’ve personally seen disastrous results in many families of one kid after the next going OTD, or are halfway OTD because parents wanted to be inclusive and nice to everyone or make BTs.

And you won’t say how we are or we are not a light unto the nations, Hashem is the judge of that.

As for only voting for politicians whom I would invite to my house, that would mean I would vote for no one. That’s worse than not voting for those who will fight liberals and for conservative values which are closer to our values, so I think that suggestion is not the smartest.

Billywee, I’ve reread my post many times and don’t see any reference to Donald Trump… Just kidding, I didn’t reread my post because I know I wasn’t particularly thinking of Donald Trump and therefore didn’t mention him- I was thinking more of local politicians.

But if we are talking about Donald Trump, I think he’s a better option than the Demorats that promote an agenda of pro abortion, pro LGTB, pro everything that’s immoral. Trump however, not that he’s particularly pro-morality, (although he did sign into law that the army won’t provide medical care for “trans” crazies) but he’s not stupid and knows that his conservative supporters will drop him like a hot potato if he starts supporting liberal “values”. In fact, he got backlash from his supporters for holding up an LGTB sign. He needs to appeal to conservatives who are his strongest supporters and he knows it.

Mazel tov! All the best to you and your chosson!

Reb Eliezer, hachnosos orchim is a great mitzvah, I’m certainly not debating that. But there are prerquisites to this mitzvah. The first thing a person should look at when they do a mitzvah is if it will elevate them or lower them spiritually. Many have tried to “save” others while dragging down their family’s and their own ruchnius.

Now I’m not saying you can’t invite anyone because it lowers the spiritual level of the home since the guest will automatically be of the opposite gender of one of the spouses (or teenaged or adult children in the family…). Neither do I wish to make a blanket statement that one cannot speak to the opposite gender at seudahs, I’m not saying it’s wrong in all times. Everything should be within context. And I’m sorry that you are not invited into Chassidishe homes but I can see that happening. As I said previously, we weren’t invited to anyone’s home going back 25 years ago when we were a family with no father in the house. But I wouldn’t want it another way, there’s no way I’d agree to eat at other family’s seudahs just because we didn’t have a father…So I do get that Chassidishe families don’t invite you, not that I’m not agreeing that it’s right, I’m just stating that that’s the metzius…

But as for not inviting guests, all I said was that if one’s spouse is not comfortable with the guests they shouldn’t be invited. I did not say one shouldn’t invite guests at all, or that one cannot talk at all to guests of the opposite gender…

Billywee, indeed many Chassidim today are more machmir on gender separation than years ago and many non-Chassidim have relaxed their standards…Divorce rates have gone up in all circles and I don’t think all of it is bad- women and men will not stay in abusive relationships anymore. However, overall, the divorce rate is higher in circles where men and women have relaxed standards, that’s a fact. Of course, there are other factors involved, the relaxing of standards is according to how integrated one is in the secular world and how accepting one is of the secular culture, that goes hand in hand. Obviously, the more frum one is, whether they are Chassidish or not, the more formal one will be with the opposite gender. It doesn’t make a marriages automatically wonderful if one is more reserved towards the opposite gender, but certainly marriages dissolve more easily the more secular “values” are embraced.

Reb Eliezer, you may be an exception, there are always exceptions to the rules…but generally, the FACT is, that the more informality there is between genders, the more divorces and inappropriate behavior there will be.

“Reb” Eliezer, the Chassidishe communities don’t have to fix problems that don’t exist, even if it does in your mind…Your comment about luxuries is based on ignorance of our Chassidishe communities. There are definitely problems in certain Chassidishe communities regarding women and men having strong desire for luxuries and live on a higher standard than they can afford. In recent years some Rebbes have addressed the issue of lowering the standards for weddings and many have listened, but the everyday lifestyle standards were never addressed. Many Chassidishe people like nice cars, designer clothing and accessories and other things they can’t afford. I’m not saying it doesn’t create sholom bayis problems but because the divorce rate is generally low in the Chassidishe communities doesn’t mean these problems don’t exist within some Chassidishe communities.

Joseph, 90% or more of your posts are about womens’ obligations (or percieved obligations) to their husbands.

That is an obsession right there…Maybe you should think in the opposite direction and put forth some thought provoking questions of what husbands’ obligations are to their wives. It is healthy to be thinking not only of womans’ obligations to their husbands and but your brain should at least sometimes be thinking about husbands’ obligations to their wives if this is the generally the topic of your thought process.

Any rov will say that if the husband purchases for example, large properties for personal use, if the his family will live there, then the wife must be consulted. And of course, vice versa if the women makes such purchases. But if it is for business purposes where they have separate businesses, then this question is ridiculous because every normal husband wants his wife to be successful and automatically endorses substantial business transactions if she has a successful track record, and if the husband hampers a wife in any way, he’s obviously not fit for marriage. ( And good luck in court to the husband who tries to abolish large transactions made by his wife…)

Gadolhadorah, you are the one that read that theme when no one was implying that. Everyone who suported the OP simply said that a person needs to feel comfortable in the company of their guests, in a spiritual sense or otherwise, and it doesn’t matter if the guests are divorced or not.

Personally, I don’t get this inviting divorced women thing. In our Chassidishe community the women who are divorced eat at their own family’s Shabbos seudahs. Sometimes for Yom Tov divorced women do get invited out, but these women are already close friends to their hosts and their spouses are comfortable having them at their table. We used to have a divorced man over for some seudahs but he was my husband’s close friend and he almost never spoke to me or to my teenage daughters except saying “good Shabbos” in our general direction, saying “thank you” to me and inviting us all to his wedding. If the all guests behave like this, I’d say kol hakvod to hosting guests of the opposite gender…

My mother was divorced at a time when almost no one was in our community was and we ate by ourselves or at our grandparents’. It never occurred to us, and especially to my mother, to eat at other people seudahs and we would never have gone had we been invited out.

It is my mind-boggling that people accept this rumor without seeing any proof. It is not only mind-boggling, it rishus. And it’s against halacha. And what does it have to do with Satmer?! I’m anti anti-Zionism and I don’t accept such stories without proof on the basis of yapping tongues. Nor do I accept any other rumors floating around. Until there’s no proof that it was an “inside job” I take it as an act of anti-Semitism, regardless whether the Ramapo Police Department rejects that idea or not. I believe these rumors are floating around because the “mighty” RPD does not want to admit that it was an act of anti-Semitism and so every second person will jump to conclusions who the perpertrators were. We’ll see in a few days time, I hope. But for now, these rumors can ruin people’s lives…it’s unfair and immature to assume things.

Joseph, I want to ask mechila from you. I hope the 3 .oichel lochs include me as well. Although many of your posts bothered me, I don’t care anymore. I shouldn’t have gotten personal, I hope you forgive my harsh words to you.

And if I have hurt anyone else, please forgive me as well.

I say moichel loch, moichel loch, moichel loch as well.

Ah git gebentched your to all.

ubiquitin, did you marry off any kids? And if you did, did you do what you are advising others here to do?

rational, I agree. But at this point I’m not wearing a Shabbos dress to my kids’ weddings, I’m just trying to keep expenses “relatively” low… Don’t forget, a musician and singer costs money too- you can have mp3 players and do without them as well. Only close family like siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents, and first counsins should be invited to the meal, why invite neighbors, freinds, co-workers etc. ? There are expenses that cost way more than $800 for a dress. A bare-minimum, no extras wedding night costs about $10,000 excluding gowns, hairstyling, makeup, -I think the entire idea of spending this much for one night is a himmel geshrei.

The rosh yeshiva of Breslov yeshiva in Williamsburg is marrying off his own kids for $7,000, all wedding expenses included, including silver jewelry (not gold), cheap furniture, etc, mamesh everything is included for $7,000. Many of his talmidim have also done the $7000 wedding. The wedding night is celebrated in the yeshiva building, the meal is cooked by the yeshiva’s cook and served by the talmidim. They have an mp3 playing- no band. The women don’t rent dresses only wear their Shabbos clothing as the men do …

I personally wouldn’t give fake jewelry to a kallah and I do believe in buying strong furniture for young couples ( which costs $16,000-18,000). I just don’t think it’s right to spend over $10,000 for one night. That’s money flushed down the toilet in my opinion. I believe a wedding should cost nor more than $5,000 for both sides together with everything included and no extras like dress rentals.

Yossel Pupik, there were great tzaddikim who married early and our great Sages worked while learning. Starting shidduchim at 24 is ridiculous…And you didn’t answer me regarding Yeshivisha Israelis starting shidduchim at 21- are they weaker learners than all the groisse American talmidie chochomim who start dating at 24?

Joseph, Chassidishe boys marrying Yeshivishe girls is not a trend, they are exceptions, which will continue to happen but I can guarantee you it will not become a trend, certainly not in the next 100 years unless Moshiach comes before and things may be different. These kind of marriages are not new, “neutral” Chassidim CAN BE (but are not necessarily) similar to Yeshivisha/Litvishe but with shtreimlach and have “intermarried” for decades. Also, if people have what some consider “issues” that are hard to surmount within their communities they can “marry out” if they care more about shidduchim than others’ shittas. But most Chassidim are not neutral and would never make such a shidduch and vice versa- the average Yeshivishishe, no matter the age, will not be seeking to marry a Chassidishe person.

Also for some for whom this has worked are those who do not follow their parents derech and become more “modern” in levush and custom and they are more open to mixing with different types. But also this type of mixing is few and far in between, it is more common for these people to find their other “modern” half with backgrounds like their own.

Most Yeshivishe girls today don’t get engaged by 19 as they are in seminary or pursuing a degree and girls these days, many Chassidishe included, are generally more picky so it usually takes a longer time to find the right one. But still, 24 year old boys getting engaged to 20 year old girls is for sure contributing to the shidduch crisis.

In some Chassidishe circles girls are not in a rush to get married and they get engaged by 20 or 21 and oftentimes the boy is younger by a year or so. In my opinion if this trend continues, there will be a glut of “older bachurim” of age 21 and older years of age on the market. Its a Chassidishe shidduch crisis looming in some circles h”y if this trend continues. This upcoming trend excludes Sqvere, Monsey Viznitz, Satmer where the boys and girls generally go at a younger age of 17, 18 and 19 and they are generally not as picky and have “old-fashioned” ideals of kids marrying as soon as possible which has both pros and cons. Of course everything is bashert, but there are trends of thought patterns in each generation and I personally think that although going too quickly is not ideal ( although many are very successful with this shittah) girls going later age of 21+ in the Chassidishe oilim and Yeshivisha boys starting shidduchim at age 24 is playing with fire.

Although to be honest my daughter-in-law is a year older than my son, when I did the shidduch I had no clue that this is a new Chassidishe trend, but it she is the right girl for my son b”H. Shidduchim are bashert and the bottom line is that we don’t have much say even though we think we do, but it is also the truth that if this trend continues it is a shidduch crisis waiting to happen because by the time girls are ready to get married at age 21, there are boys years 18+ on the market so the pool of boys become bigger and the boys that are a year or two older than the girls have a smaller chance of finding a shidduch.

Again, everything is bashert and everyone should do what is right for them, but trends where everyone does the same thing is still dangerous.

Quayboardwarrior, that is not more than 10%, it’s just a different ten percent. Many people in those times dealt and traded wiith produce and herds, not necessarily coins, so that’s how they gave their ten percent of maaser.

And it’s ridiculous to mention challah, how much does that cost per batch of dough? Not even a few pennies per many dollars that comes in (if one sells baked goods). For the size of a half an egg of dough you take off you get 5 full sized challos and many bilkes, the loss of a few pennies is irrelevant according to money that comes in per batch, it’s WAY LESS than a percent.

Bringing up bikkurim is all irrelevant, a few fruits out of entire orchards does not prove your point of giving away more than ten percent. It just shows how little Hashem asked from us.

The bottom line is that a person gave away 10% of their income in whatever form it was, and a few fruits and an animal or bird, dough, etc. did not mean giving away more than 10% of one’s income.

Those living in Eretz Yisroel have other forms of maaser nowadays too besides giving away ten percent of one’s income to tzedaka and we all take challah too. If that affects in any way anyone’s net income then they are in very bad shape indeed. My point is that it has no affect, other than a few pennies or dollars, to our net income. It doesn’t make a dent in our net income but taxes nowadays could skin people alive.

The only time people were obligated to give away more than ten percent of their income was during shmitta. But only God can expect to make such demands of people because He promised to give back many times over what farmers lost.

heiliger yidele, what are you talking about? (Almost ) ALL Chassidishe women rent gowns ( in various lengths…) and for their kids too. Some Chassidishe people spend a bomb of money on gowns. Many of my friends, we’re all Chassidish, spent $3,000 on their gowns. I know there are Chassidishe women that can spend more ( and many spend less too). It doesn’t matter if it’s Chassidish or Yeshivish, we all rent or buy gowns.

Interesting, in the Chassidishe world boys are considered ready by 19, in some Chassidishe cirlces they even start shidduchim by 18. Most Chassidishe married men also start working at an earlier age than Yeshivishe men. Men starting shidduchim by 18-19 and working to support their families is more in line with what Chazal had in mind.

I really don’t get why Yeshivishe boys start shidduchim by 24. You don’t necessarily mature as you grow older, middos simply become more entrenched if one never worked on their middos at an earlier age. A boy or girls who is selfish by age 18 will most often be just as selfish, and sometimes even more, at age 24.

Reb Eliezer, besides I don’t get exactly whose “advice of the elders” you want me to follow… Maybe the one who supported Hillary the crook when she was running for president? Or other ones who support immorality pushing politicians?

In any case, I’m sure there will be a few Rabbonim supporting Trump, but most Rabbonim won’t give their support for any presidential candidate, certainly not the Rabbonim, I mean the elders, I listen to.

That may not be such good news for you who would love to see a kol korah banning voting for Trump. Sorry to dissapoint you but I can guarantee you that that will not be happpening. My elders, im not sure about yours, are not advising us regarding whom we should vote for in the presidential elections.

zahavasdad, I also can’t trace my ancestors further than my great-granparents:-) …it was second cousins and great uncles who are into yichus stuff who had the knowledge and abilities to trace our ancestors. I’m sure there are people who could trace the ancestors of your great-grandparents, it requires skill but I’m sure the knowledge is out there somewhere .

Anyway, my point is not how far back we can go but from where we shtam. If your great-granparents were frum Jews then they came from families whose ancestors were frum Jews or geirim… who also ended up marrying into frum families. Years ago you could rely on the fact that if your grandmother was Jewish she definitely came from Jewish ancestry. .. What ancestry are we creating today for our future generations? Safek Jewish ancestry, that’s what.

How about we focus all this energy and money on confused and struggling frum kids who don’t fit into the mold, on non-assimilated but not frum families and communities, on OTDs, etc. There are many ways where we need to strengthen our communities and help our own kids, I don’t see why kiruv needs to be done on safek Jews. Of course, for those who are searching and come to us for answers the door should always be open, but there’s no reason to run after people who intermarried for generations and it’s oftentimes impossible to know for certain where they shtam from. This secular generation is just the worst because the secular lifestyle today is simply crazy massive immorallity and besides for the Jewish ancestry question, we can’t take other stuff about people for granted today as well…