pet peeve

bp totty

i feel personally stood up for. thanks for your post.

wolf i really liked ur post. practical, down to earth, and realistic.

perhaps your reasonings is why there are so many “fast broken marriages” lately. no good, opt out instead of stick it out. just speculating, it could be a thousand reasons, but your logic is right on.

thanks.

i actually always thought Moq = mock.

as long as there is Torah learning, there will be people to support it. i don’t know what will happen to the “system”, only time will tell, but i do know that even today, we still have far more jews in the workforce than we do in the learning force. it doesnt seem that way, but it is true.

system and politics aside, i think it would be a shame to discourage Torah learning as a way of life. as the generations continue to be yored, i would think that we need as much of a shmira from Torah as possilbe. i am not saying that people should continue to be encouraged to shnorr off their parents, something that i personally find quite distasteful, but i think it is a frightening thing to suggest that people discourage today’s generation (or next generation) from learning for extended periods of time to strengthen themselves in Torah.

it is not our place to worry about a whole system and who will take care of supporting Torah in the next dor. that is the cheshbon of Hashem. our job is to ensure that Torah learning, and subsequently a Torah lifestyle, does not slowly disappear in our quest to “fix a system”. let us teach the next generation be RESPONSIBLE about the way they choose to live their Torah lifestyle, without compromising on their idealistic values. we need Torah learning desperately in the world, lets not forget that.

“man cannot discover new oceans unless he has courage to lose sight of the shore”

apushuteyid: I will try to explain my own experience. its hard for me to capture it in written words, so a) if anything is unclear, i will try to clarify if you need b) i dont know if i can adequately explain my year, so i hope this is sufficient for you.

first, please understand that each person’s experience will be different. it is entirely dependent on the seminary a person went to in discussing what/how they gained. further, not everyone who goes to sem does so for the right purposes, so the responses you get may be varied.

I am a few years out of sem, not on the “straight back from sem” high, so I am not speaking from 9 miles up in the air:

in my own experience, going to EY for seminary was life changing. i am not saying this to be dramatic, (as in: some sem girls are known for saying their sem experience was AMAZING!!!!!!!!) there were a number if contributing factors to my experience:

being in EY is a huge deal: first of all, being away from home, and spending a solid 10 months independently, is a huge tool for growing up. learning coping skills are a must: dorming is not easy, necessarily, and you learn real fast how to get along with others in a forced environment (great middos opp!) it is also tremendously liberating to be away from the environment in which you grew up. even in “open minded” homes, the fact is, that for most girls, for 18 years,sh has been in a stationary setting. moving out into something different gives her the chance to view lifestyles that may be different than what she is used to, weather that be the simplicity of life in EY, or just even stepping back to view her lifestlye in a more objective way (i am NOT discussing here the negative sides to being away from home in a “liberating” environment. thats for a diff. discussion).

also, there is no denying that living in EY for a whole year enables a person to develop a profound connection to it. the fact that there is kedusha, which she is hopefully tapping into, and special mekomos that enhance tefilla (i.e. kosel, etc), literally strengthened my year. living in EY, spending shabbasos in various cities/locations in Yerushalayim, actually seeing all the proverbial chassidim running as the shabbos siren goes off, sensing the neis of rain, etc, all the small things, are massive benefits and contributed in huge ways to my year. i would not have gotten these special advantages anywhere in the states. i think that being in EY at the same time as being in a full time learning environment, gives the dual benefit of really immersing oneself in a positive, growing environment.

my school: i went to a seminary with a whole different style of teaching and learning than i was used to. the approach of the staff, presentation of the classes, open-ness and warmth of the administration, the depth of the material i was learning, were all different than my high school experience. i developed kesharim with some of the teachers, and the things i learned from them individually (not only in the classroom, but also on a personal level) have literally set me on a derech for life. i was given the opportunity to question, and i was forced, in a way, to question myself and my place in everything i was learning. i learned to take the lessons, and apply them directly to my own life. i was forced to take some real close looks at myself and answer tough questions about my identity, my commitment, my relationship to Hashem, as well as to others, and what i want for myself in the future. i remember seeing somewhere on this forum, i think in a thread about baalei teshuvah, that at some point in life, we all need to make a choice of what we want: my turning point, where i actually felt myself in a position of choice making, was in seminary.

i learned what true growth (both personal and in Torah life–or are they one and the same?–means, i was presented with a Torah hashkafa that enabled me to clarify key points in yiddishkeit and learn what that means for myself; i learned so so much about middos, both from my peers and the staff; i was set on a “growing path”, inspired and encouraged to keep growing on my own and to constantly reach higher; i was in an environment where i felt comfortable to ask questions, and received answers that i was satisfied with…..etc. i walked away feeling empowered in my yiddishkeit, and motivated to keep learning and growing in a certain direction. i am still in touch with several teachers: i value these relationships, as i can continue to seek guidance with various aspects of my present life circumstances, and it is really meschazek me to speak with them when i need to.

note: for all you people who will say “im not the type to get close to teachers”: neither was i!! but at a certain point, i needed to swallow my pride, all of it, and get the hadracha that i knew i would need and appreciate for the rest of my life. i am still so thankful that i had this opportunity. i learned how to think for myself, not to live according to assumptions, to develop and strengthen my sense of self….etc.

everyone knows sem is different than hs (even text based ones). hs is for the sake of education (at least thats how mine seemed), while i viewed sem as a school that teaches you how to live. and thats what i did. there is something special to be said about going to school that is round the clock devoted to teaching and inspiring young women how to live b’derech Hatorah, in a way that will bring them happiness and fulfillment, weather that be learned inside from the text, or taken out and explained in class. the uninterrupted flow of the year helped me to stay focused, and it is because i was so far away from my “former” life that i was able to make such great strides in my growth, steps that have stayed with me.

peers: in personally think there is something important to be said of the fact that in sem in EY, there will be a mix of girls from all over the world. its a great opportunity to learn from all different kinds of people, with various backgrounds, and to learn from them. each sem will have a diff crowd, and you can for sure learn from the people in your environment in the states. in my personal experience, my peers and friends contributed tremendously to my year.

seminary is in no way the finishing touch: it is supposed to set a young women in a direction for life, but should in no way be viewed as the end product! if anything, i am more aware now of what i need to do, what i CAN do, and my potential, but i do not think that sem is the be all end all. its just the beginning. i am so so thankful that i had the opportunity to go to sem, and to learn what i did, from the people i learned from. i think i can honestly say that i am a very different person from before/after sem, and thats for the better.

i hope this made sense–if you need me to clarify, i’ll be happy to. hope this helps!

sac,

ok i hear you, not offended, just saying, please dont cast blanket statements in such a flippant manner.

yes, the BY system has a stereotype of producing blind sheep. we can all agree there are plenty exceptions to this rule. especially from my aforementioned list of sems.

sacrilege

i thought ur last statement was out of line.

its first of all, not entirely true, and while monotony in judaism is a topic to be discussed, possibly, your comment was very much a generalization and slightly offensive.

i do not think that WIY’s criteria contradict each other. such people do exist (yourself included :))

thanks.

mischeif is right: get a Water Safety Instructor (WSI) to teach you, someone who has experience. If possible, do it in private lessons (not group). It shouldn’t be a big deal, most instructors who are qualified to teach are able to work with hesitant/fearful learners. good luck!

i actually agree with popa on this–me’ohr sounds like a great choice. i would consider it. yes its a huge mix, socially–and you will find your crowd there. it sounds like you might really enjoy their derech and program.

if your looking for a bais yaakov seminary, it sounds like peninim might be great for you. average sized, warm and friendly staff, great classes, and while it is called a bais yaakov seminary, it is “open minded” and not brainwashy. not particularly academic–there are amazing classes, but not loads of work. i think they have a website….

hashemlovesme: true re middos, but when someone says “top middos” it could be they mean someone who is recognizes the importance of middos and is dedicated toward tikun hamiddos (not scared to confront his/her own flaws and correct them)

generally, flights are cheaper coming from EY to u.s than vice versa. i once got a flight from EY to atlanta for $750. would never happen the other way around.

moq: i love your posts, and this one is no exception. you just about summed it up……

according to the idea that one cannot hit out of anger, but should only potch out of the desire to be mechanech, one who hits his child should be able to IMMEDIATELY give him a hug/kiss and say I love you. this is to convey that the child did something dangerous/wrong, is not violence (since there is no force behind it–in the case of anger, there is force), and leaves the child still feeling loved and safe. this is the proper way to administer potches.

if one is too worked up and cannot bring himself to hug his child after potching him, he can be sure that he was not mechanech correctly. no one ever said its ok to take your annoyance out on your child.

sm29,

both of the things you mentioned in your first post about encouraging children are very valid. Rabbi Zecharya Greenwald discusses both of these things at length in his book “Preparing your Child for Success”. an interesting and worthwhile read.