Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
WIY
in direct response to your question: nope, it does not make me feel like a fraud. wearing makeup tastefully makes me feel wonderful–confident, beautiful, and feminine. all are qualities men such as yourself seem to seek in a spouse. wearing makeup does not mean someone doesn’t have natural beauty; all it means is that they know how to enhance and highlight that beauty to its best advantage.
Brony
+1
!!!!!!!
I don’t think class time is overwhelming….its really reasonable and manageable. plus, when classes are stimulating, interesting and applicable, they aren’t a drag but a pleasure!
As for the main reason: I don’think I can answer that, each person comes with their own goals. Both of the aspects you mentioned are big parts of the year. BUT the goal is for sure not to only gain lots of knowledge and just cover ground and have the girls be constantly studying and studying. Self development is a major part of the experience, but again, its how much you put into that, how invested you are in your own growth that makes the difference. No one can “make” you become something; they can guide you, offer you tools that will help your process, but the recognition, awareness, and eventual paradigm shift is internal. there is a tremendous focus on self development and growth as an individual. each person’s experience is different.
regarding text:
in most classes, that wont be a problem. there is one very textual meforshim class, but you shouldn’t have to worry about that–they will work with you and help, it certainly shouldn’t be a reason to not apply. if you are interested in the general idea/program, dont worry about the textual level. most people are fine. and if you’ve been in a mainstream bais yaakov school, you should be prepared just fine.
as for “new york” style: each year has a different flavor, but I’ve seen many years of Me’ohr, and I’ve never felt that it was overwhelmingly new yorkish. the staff AND the girls, largely, are very warm, friendly, accepting people. like any school, its a mixed bag, but meohr is a very diverse place; i think when i was there, there were 85 girls from 40 different schools! so there is certainly not one group that is more dominant and takes over. each year, im always blown away from the girls: they are solid, strong, vivacious and inspired people. they are warm, interested in growth, have tremendous depth and substance. its amazing to see how girls come in, and further develop over the year into very very special people. i’ve always said that in seminary, the learning experience is really divided 50-50: u learn as much from the dorms and the girls as you do from the teachers. being surrounded by good people is a HUGE part of the year!
if you have any other qs, ask away.
hi happy,
i’ll try to answer your quations:
its hard to classify what “type” of girl goes to a school. you could say that Me’ohr is a bais yaakov school and they are looking for solid bais yaakov girls who have depth, are interested in thinking and learning,and are ready to experience a very special year in EY. Me’ohr has a big mix of people, as it is not looking for stereotypes of cookie cuts, but for strong individuals who want to grow both personally and in yiddishkeit.
academia: different from any kind of learning you’ve had, if you are from the mainstream bais yaakov schools. there is more class time than there is “homework” time, and yes, there are assignments and tests, etc. But the work is not overwhelming by any means; it is completely manageable, and it isn’t the goal of the school to pile the students with work for the sake of work. Learning, not homework, is for sure the focus.
Teachers: very very special people! Like the students, there is a mix in the styles of the teachers. this is so that everyone has opportunity to connect with someone, there isn’t just one “type” or style amongst the teachers. what they have in common, though, is that they are a fantastic group of very special people; strong teachers, talmidei chachamim, incredible individuals. There is much to be learned from them by who they are and not just by what they teach!
size: it fluctuates, when I was there we were a group of about 80, now its hovering closer to 100.
meals: yep, all three 😉
there is a lot to say about Me’ohr; its easier if you ask specific questions, I’ll be happy to answer as much as I can.
often, its helpful to get the perspective that only the opposite gender can offer. each case is individual and needs to be considered from all angles,ask a shaila if needed for guidance, but there is what to be said for having an opposite perspective. can be very very helpful.
ummmm….my list of single girls over 23 is way over 10 or 15. its more like 40.
“I mean really there arent that many mitzvos asked of a girl to perform….
WIY you’ve just demonstrated zero understanding of the nature of tznius. While there are some aspects of the mitzvah that can be understood by “rules” and are non-negotiable, there are other aspects that are quite unclear, are grey areas, and different poskim hold different ways. Given the diversity in klal yisrael, one sefer/book of the “rules” is not necessarily going to satisfy everyone…there are in fact MANY books written on the topic, yet there continues to be discussion as to what the “obvious” halacha is…..tznius is a sensitive and delicate topic, and subtly cynical comments such as yours do not help women keep the mitzvah better.
yeah, i agree, its a no-no for either party to discuss former dates. simple dating etiquette
there is NOTHING like a good workout, followed by a good shower and then a good night’s sleep.
THATS what makes u feel like a mentch.
i think its weird for the guy to give that feedback to the shadchan, and even more unhelpful for her to pass it along to you. its very normal to be nervous on a first date, whats his hangup? and why do you need to know that he noticed? like its gonna make you calmer to know that. as you get more comfortable, you’ll naturally relax and warm up, you don’t need to freak out because after one date you showed some nerves. give yourself a break.
funnybone
+1
if you date a lot, though, how many games can you buy already???
😛
I too am a girl in shidduchim,going thru this crazy “system”– yet I do believe that we women do not realize to its fullest degree the way men operate. I will give them that, and in all fairness can appreciate their difficulty.
HOWEVER I do not think that a picture is an appropriate measure of attraction, and when trying to create a relationship that is built on numerous factors, the artificial impression of a picture does even beautiful girls a huge injustice.
both have a lot of work. both have wonderful girls and a warm staff.
based off your description, i’d personally recommend me’ohr and ateres.
Definitely Moq and Sacrilege. Also Dr. Pepper. The Wolf, although he is kind of here. and SJSinNYC
wiy
are you serious?
more–
regardless if she is married or single, it is certainly NONE of your business how much makeup a woman wears or how she wears it. don’t arrange for anyone to speak with her about how she looks–mind your own business!
in any case, he should for sure not limit himself to only dating talkative girls. Just because someone might be on the quieter side does not necessarily make them uncomfortable conversationalists or bad daters. besides, there is a huge balance between “talkative” and “quiet”.
changing a personality for the sake of dating is a mistake.
he needs to find someone compatible who appreciates his personality, and will draw out the best in him, not try to change himself for the sake of others. it is important, however, to be sure that he has good dating and communications skills–even if hes not talkative, he has to know how to carry conversation, and overall show that he knows how to treat a girl. it is important for him to know that girls need to see initiative in him, and a certain masculine strength/direction,etc…..a girl needs to feel taken care of, not that she has to be the leader of the two because he can’t get his act together. a person doesnt need to talk a lot to accomplish this, its a social nuance that most people can pick up on.
from personal experience, i’ve been out with guys who were quieter than me, and that didnt bother me per se, as long as what they did say was intelligible, intelligent, and made sense–i hate when guys act shy, mumble, and dont make eye contact. being quiet/thoughtful/introspective/or say things in few words is one thing; not having social skills is quite another.
classical music:
when it comes to facebook and dating, only you are going to have to decide if it inherently bothers you or not.
i think the general question is: how much TIME does s/he spend on it? you can argue from here till forever if its “safe”, all the pros and cons of facebook…..but no one wants someone who will be married to their virtual life instead of their real spouse. find out how addicted s/he is, how much time they spend online in general….that is a better indicator of where they are holding. ppl have facebook for many reasons….it might be worth your while to find out WHY someone has it. (unless of course you decide that you’d rather not date anyone with fb, as a general unmoving rule).
raphael kaufman: like
i am not defending or advocating zumba here, but i really think it is out of place for men to be commenting on this thread and telling women what is counted as tznius or not re: dancing. men just cannot understand all the aspects and sensitivities involved, and some people here are just coming across as judgmental.
check out classic.frumteens.com, and look in the seminary threads
lots of info discussed there. good luck
from the star-k website:
what exactly is the point of this thread….? sooooooo disturbing.
bpt:
i know this is off topic, but just wanted to say that i always look forward to your posts. i really like virtually all that you contribute, and the way in which you say it. a gut kvitel to you and your family, and thanks for all the wisdom that you share!
hate to break the news to you people, but its true. i know plenty of girls who fit all the “requirements” and still are not getting redt shidduchim. there is no explainable reason. fact is, there are lots of beautiful, slim, talented, capable bright girls with good middos and have what it takes to be a good wife and mother, and they are. not. getting. dates. and its not because they are not putting effort in to get their name out and around.
Me’ohr fits that description, but there are a lot of factors that need to come into account (your background, etc). I’d suggest checking out frumteens.com and looking in the seminary forum. Lots of good info on there. Good luck!
if this isn’t a troll, i’d be very very surprised.
I think that what people refer to as a top boy is one who: learns well and learns often; is a ben torah in and out of the bais medrash; has good middos; comes from a good family; has the right balance of personality (really serious about life, but also knows how to have a good time, etc); is probably going to stay in long term learning….
this is not necessarily a list that I would consider “top”, but what I think people refer to when they use that term.
personally, i hate the word “top” in reference to good boys who will be in learning for a while. as many others said here, middos are the most important thing when looking for a spouse. in my very humble opinion, it is not good middos to feel entitled to and demand from the girls side financial support–and expect to get it!!–just because someone is “top” in his learning. the sense of entitlement that sometimes accompanies guys who think that just because they are in yeshiva and know how to learn gives them the right to place all kinds of demands on the girls….that is not good middos and takes them off the “top” pedestal real fast IMO.
also, it is never a good idea to use a term like “top” or “best” because it takes away an important point: when looking for a spouse, one is looking for someone who will be best for THEM. not someone who is “top” by universal standards. this is a really big problem because we have people searching for illusions, and they think they sometimes get the “best/top/” out there, but whatever that is is totally wrong for them.
if there is no initial honesty/trust in the beginning, don’t expect it to come later. lying, under any circumstance, is risky business.
for particular situations, ask a shailah about what is necessary to disclose. under normal circumstances, honesty is the general rule.
i’d go out again. i know of several people who ended up marrying that way. you never know……don’t make it a pride issue, and not go out again, just b/c they said no the first time around.
yes, i did notice.
usually, if a yeshivish boy and girl “make their own shidduch”, it raises eyebrows, because people are skeptical that two frum adults who are of marriageable age could keep the non-shidduch-relationship appropriate.
there are going to be tons of differing opinions on this thread of what is considered appropriate, but in my view, I don’t see anything wrong with two people meeting and setting themselves up, or asking an outside party, in this case the boys mother, to do something about it to have them go out officially on a shidduch date. you can argue forevermore if its appropriate for frum singles to be working in mixed gender workplaces–that isn’t the point here.
if the couple are behaving in a mature, responsible, and appropriate fashion, I don’t see why it should be a problem. I’m sure there are plenty of excellent and yashar people on these boards, who belong to the yeshiva world, who have met their spouses without being formally introduced by a shadchan…….
if [frum] men were attracted to health, then there wouldnt be a problem with bais yaakov girls and eating diorders.
why can’t we just say:
Girls, try your absolute best to look healthy and attractive, including doing what is necessary to lose unhealthy and excessive weight. Guys, do your absolute best to look beyond the physical in its purest sense, and get to see and know the beauty that lies within–you just may be pleasantly surprised at what you find.
disclaimer: this is assuming both the girls and the guys are being reasonable and realistic in their perception of beauty/attraction, and there is an understanding of human tevah, especially in reference to males.
and then can we PLEASE stop discussing women like this. especially when they are so degradingly called “fat girls”. uuuggghh.
maynish,
I like to read the CR to hear opinions and thoughts of others in the frum world on all the contemporary issues that are brought up here. However, it is posts like yours that make me doubt the validity and seriousness of posters. If you are for real, then you need a serious reality check and a big dose of some guidance. If you were throwing that in to stir some people up and create debate material, please know that I’m sure your post was very hurtful to many. This is a very, very, sensitive issue for ALL girls and women, whether they are thin or not, and the way that you, and the others who posted in a similar way to you, discuss women and their weights/figures is so degrading and humiliating it actually makes me sick.
I am all for guys being attracted to their wives/wanting to date and marry pretty women, etc. But it is not ok to discuss women like this–Bnos Yisrael deserve to be treated with utmost respect and sensitivity. Further, this whole discussion is a breach of tznius, in my very humble opinion, for men and women alike–I find it highly inappropriate to discuss the details of women’s body shape, before or after pregnancies, or their overall structure.
This topic has been discussed many times on these boards, and as the threads go on, the posts from the males perspective become more and more “loose” in their tone, and in their implications of how they want their women to look. I’m actually sitting at my computer embarrassed from the way this discussion has turned–I can’t believe that this is going on on a website that calls itself “yeshiva world”. I am reiterating again that while DO believe that as shidduchim go, men need to be attracted to the women they date AND VICE VERSA, limiting women to their figures, and then having the chutzpah to discuss your taivos proudly with the whole world, is downright demeaning and, frankly, sickening. Please, please stop–you have no idea what you are doing to so many girls by promoting this kind of talk.
you know, not every single thread needs to be intensely heavy and full of depth and thoughtfulness. sometimes, its good and appropriate to have a little bit of chit chat……..
observe, im not really sure what was going on in the other threads because i did not read them through thoroughly, but i can basically figure out what the discussion was. i think that there are several points here, and one of them is that the fact of the matter is, jews often (not always) find identity with each other in the form of classification. i know everyone is scared of being accused of “labeling” and yes, its an awful thing to put people into a box, but with all the sects in judaism, and the fine lines between many of them, its inevitable that there will be some sort of classifying. with that said, there are different uniforms that people identify with. you and i might know that these uniforms are not Tora m’sinai and have nothing to do with halacha, etc. obviously, someone who wears a white shirt vs. a guy who wears a blue shirt is not a better jew based on that alone. however, it is an identity thing–if a guy wheres a white shirt and black hat, knowing that in the yeshivish world this is what it is acceptable to be wearing (on a usual basis) then he is making a statement that he is part of the yeshivish world. if a guy claims to be in the yeshivish world, and davka wears a blue shirt, then he is making a statement, too. not that its bad!!! im just saying, he is choosing to make a statement. even if he has the best self confidence in the world, and he is a “yeshivish” person, just likes to wear blue shirts, to the world, he is making a statement.
all these nuances of how people choose to dress do not define their level of yiddishkeit, but they do classify people into groups based on the uniform they choose to wear. i think we can all agree that a chasid is stating that he is a chasid by wearing the traditional levush. while the yshivish levush is not quite as much a mesorah as the levush by chasidim, a certain levush has become acceptable by litvish/yeshivish, and wearing it states that one is affiliated with that group.
i enjoy reading what many people here write. i would have to say, tho, that i like almost everything that bpt writes, and am often very impressed with the clear and yashar thoughts that come through in his writing/opinions. they are always full of substance, and have a great balance of humor. popa is also way up there–sometimes the posts are kind of outrageous, but the humor, and the serious content despite the humor, are great.very sharp, very witty. sac’s “one liner” posts speak volumes–also way up there on my ratings.
mod 80 and wolf also deserve honorable mention 🙂
dont mean to exclude anyone, im sure there are others, these are just the first few that stand out.
oh and i almost forgot WIY–he also would have gotten an honorable mention. if Moq were also around, he’d be in my top 3 list as well.
mind over chatter
i dont mean to be nit-picky; a thought just occurred to me. you said that inner beauty is what is important to you. what constitutes “inner beauty”? is it a person’s middos? their brains? personality?
obviously, i understand how a person’s essence and their character are what is the “ikar”–im just asking what is considered BEAUTY. everyone has flaws–if someone’s middos are less than perfect, does that mean they are not beautiful (internally)?
im directing this at you since you mentioned it, but anyone, please elaborate.
“living on G-d’s earth is expensive, but His retirement plan is outta this world”.
protein is very filling……..i find that scrambled eggs with a piece of toast always does the trick. maybe with a fruit also.
mischief: there is a book called something like “the life transforming diet” based on the teachings of Rambam’s health principles. it is an excellent read, and also a practical weight loss program. i also recommend trying Soveya’s program–you can find information about them on their website.
the bottom line is: to lose a lot of weight quickly is going to involve work, and a structured, careful system. if you are serious about it, get onto a program as fast as possible…….and then comes the hard part….sticking to it!!! lots of programs “work”, its just a matter of finding what works for you, but your own self control and motivation is the biggest determining factor.
yes, you and your mom need to be on the same page here. if shes telling people to look out for you, and you are telling them you are not interested, then they are getting mixed messages. you need to be clear in expressing your reasons to her, and hopefully she will understand and act according to your wishes. on the same note, explain to your friends that you need to be focusing on other aspects of your life right now that have “kadima”, and that you will let them know when you are ready to be involved in shidduchim again. just be gracious and appreciative of their efforts, and when the right time comes, suggestions will pour back in. hatzlacha 🙂
i gotta say that im impressed. it sounds like you are a responsible, thought out person, and you want to make the right choice. while i personally dont think that the cr should be a place to help you make major life decisions, ii’m going to chime in with my opinion anyway.
being ready to get married is not just about knowing who you are and what you want in life. you gotta really want it, and really be ready on an emotional level to enter into a new and challenging (albeit exciting) relationship. if you are changing yeshivos and need to devote time to that, and are in the middle of taking control of a potential parnassa, and you feel that this is taking up all your available energies right now, then i applaud you on the mature decision to wait. it is not fair to anyone to date them while you are in the middle of a few other very time consuming things. dating cannot be the bottom of your to do list, and it has to be the right time. if you are ready to date, you need to be prepared for the possibility of being married in a few months from that time! if you are not ready to do that, for whatever reason, do yourself and your potential date a favor and wait. i cant speak for others, but i have very little respect for men when they are dating because “hey why not, i want to get married, so yeah”. but they dont have their life together on many levels, and if they were married tomorrow, they wouldnt know how to take responsibility for themselves, let alone a wife (not to mention family!). few guys that i know speak like you do, from a place of responsibility and feeling of achrayus for their own life. kudos 🙂
yatzmich
agreed. i respect a guy who is able to express himself appropriately much more than a guy who is out to “impress” with his creativity. open, honest, and genuine communication holds a lot more weight for me than shtick, in this case.
cshapiro: bbubby wrote: “What about the people who do go outside with their leggings sticking out of their skirts. Or their hair sticking out of their Teichlach. The answer is ” I am just on the way back from the gym” Is that a heter for dressing not tzniusdik outside?”
and you responded: “ur rite bubbee…when im dripping in sweat i should put on a full face of make up and a suit with 5 inch slingbacks.!??”
so i said that bubby is not telling you to glam up to go out of the gym, but to be tznius. she clearly thinks that wearing pants under your skirt is not a tznius look. it might not cross any halachic boundaries, but I can see how someone would feel that it is a sensitivity–the look is not so refined. plus, showing hair is not ok….
cshapiro–bbubby didnt say you need to look glamorous coming out of the gym, she said you are still required to be tzanua.
first of all, mazal tov on your acceptances! how exciting 🙂
i recommend going to frumteens.com and doing a search on each of the sems. there is a ton of info on there, and lots of questions answered. if you have specific questions, then maybe people can answer you better.
i have no clue what popa is talking about, me’ohr is no where near the number 2 bus.