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It surely made a lot of people angry and it didn’t benefit the world in any way whatsoever. I can’t think of any reason why they did that except to create the illusion that they deal with “important and sensitive” issues.
“That was not the topic here and was not mentioned here, so it did not belong here”
I suppose you are right.
“In any case, if someone tells you that you are speaking LH, the response should not be to ignore it. The response should either be to say, “you are right, thank you for pointing it out.” Or to say, “thank you for pointing it out, but I don’t think it is LH because of ____.”.
What if someone think it’s not LH but have no wish to get into an argument about that? In that case the best thing would be to say “thank you for caring. I don’t think it’s LH and I would like to carry on my conversation now” (I can see how “ignore” might not express this) If that was the approach taken by some posters here it would have saved a lot of fights and harsh words.
LU: “What really upsets me is that many people have “heard” him put me down and not one person has defended me. I am through with this place!!”
You said before thay you got a Heiter to be here only if you are Mochiach when there is Lashon Arah. You’ve kept it quite honourably. However no one likes to be told constantly that they are speaking lashon arah (me included) and so you have been and still are up for some fights.
If that’s any consolation, if you resigned from lashon arah squad, no one would put you down (except the borderline trolls hanging around. They’d still do it)
Regarding Sparkly and The Seven Usernames Mystery: I suppose if someone were so cunning as to change their entire writing style and polish up their vocabulary just to fake a personality, they would be smart enough not to use a name they have used before and one which has the usual “girly” connotations.
LU I guess this is how it works: When you connect to the site your ip address – a number that’s associated with your internet connection – is registered. It can be easilly set up that no one can open a second account from the same ip address, or that if they try to do so the mods will be notified.
You can still get around it if you use a different internet connection, say your smartphone. Also changing your ip is not that hard. I guess that’s what the mods had in mind when they said there was no confirmation.
Mods? did I get it right?
LF: “this is the dangerous, tempestuous, wild web”
You only had to finish with “and I’m saying this for your own good” to give the complete gangster movie vibe.
And seriously the internet is what you want it to be. You can focus on the uglyness or on the humanity in it. It’s your choice and no perspective is more legitimate.
“A chat site with zealous, devoted, untiring Mods who do a FANTASTIC job at keeping us safe” By this point I’m getting strong 1984 vibes. Do they do it all for the people’s good?
I happen to think the mods are doing good job, and I didn’t like it when LU criticized them for not censoring Lashon Arah. But please let’s not get overly patriotic. If anyone has disagreement with the mods it’s their right to express it.
“And most who come here, be it those who ‘live’ here or those who just chanced by (fell in), are looking to chill out. To unload. To upload. Share a good word, a quip, a smile. Brighten up someone’s life, one’s own life.
???? ?????? ?????? ????? That’s what it’s all about.”
So where do you classify all the mysoginism, dogmatism, personal attacks and incomprehensive drivel?
Regarding the main issue you have with LU:
1. I can see how it might be hard to have a conversation when someone keeps shouting “Lashon Arah” in the background. However all everyone had to do was to ignore it and keep going on with the conversation. It was their choice not to do it.
2. edited.
This thread has just won the “most constructive thread of the year award”
lightbrite there are two things I wanted to tell you:
1. That in my opinion when determining one’s level of yiras shomaim by a certain mitvah they donot do properly, we have to take into consideration how hard this mitvah is for them. Not that you should give up on the mitvah just because it’s hard for you, just so that you can evaluate how far you’ve come properly.
2. A little advice: you need to be smart in Avoidas Hashem. Often you can find ways to get around the yetzer ara without actually fighting it.
Tell me if you understand what I mean. If not I’ll try and think of some examples (The ones I could think of were too personal to share)
Joseph maybe you meant yiras shomaim is much more important than learning, on which I agree.
But it wouldn’t make sense to say yiras shomaim is more important than middos tovos, let alone “much” more important. Are you better off with a bycicle missing its front wheel or its back wheel?
“And if someone was faking, there is probably even more to be concerned about!”
Nice!
LU thanks for defending me, but I actually wasn’t responding to the topic under discussion. I was refering to Joseph eagearness at making sure everybody knows there is another group of people you are allowed to speak Lashon Hara about. Like people thinking that you can’t talk Lashon Ara about secular jews would be great ignorance on their part.
Some people try to widen the circle of people they love, and some try to widen the circle of people they hate.
(I wouldn’t comment normally but the moderators said they were counting on people responding to this kind of posts when they allow them)
I later realized they look at the ip address. Should have thought of that before…
How on earth are the moderators suppose to know whether a user used to have a different username?
I stopped getting angry by Joseph once I realized he doesn’t actually believe any of the horrible messages he seems to express by his posts.
The reason he keeps bringing all these provocative (not sure if that’s the word) quotes is simply because they are provocative. He think that if a quote by Chazal gets people angry it must be because these people are influenced by the secular world. I’m not sure he actually has any idea what everyone is upset about.
Golfish: “We can say the same of all the many, many men in previous generation who did not know how to read or learn. The ameratzim, the poshute yidden who served Hashem with full hearts but very little knowledge. What about them?”
While I appreciate the intention, this comparison doesn’t actually do women justice. There have been many women much greater than this ameratzim you mention.
Any man has Mitva of learning torah and if he is Ameratz either he has far bellow average intelligence, or he has made some bad choices. In any case no matter how much he is justified for being ameratz, he still lacks something that’s very important for every jewish man to have.
Women on the other hand don’t have mitzva of learning torah and so their lack of knowladge says nothing about their Madreiga in avodas hashem.
And sorry for nitpicking.
golfish she obviously quoted only two sentences from the shiur which is bound to sound superficial. Is “for boys learning Torah” not superficial? you don’t know who the shiur was aimed at or what the context was so there’s really no reason to get angry.
With that said I do think that to some extent NOT dressing tzniusly indicates a lack of yiras shomaim. How you dress is a choice like everything else you do.
I don’t see the point of your third post, unless you had a Hava Amina he was an unreasonable fanatic, which you you probably didn’t as he is considered Adam Gadol.
Also I’m curious what quotes do you believe were taken out of context. I’ll understand if you prefer not to bring this up here though.
(LU I was going to answer you right after I read it but then forgot and didn’t remember again until now)
Yes it was a complete knock-out. I didn’t expect you to come up with all this.
Seeing as I’ve never got any information from references that was half as critcal, I can just imagine what kind of girls I must have already gone out with lol.
About point 7, why on earth would they give that person as a reference? or what methods did you use to get this information out of them?
Humour and interesting theories aside for a moment, I just want to point out that the idea of getting Sachar (reward) for every good deed is much more importnat and prevalent in the Torah than the idea of learning Torah in Gan Eden. So everyone who reads this please remember that Hashem will give you everything you deserve for every mitzvah you’ve ever done in ways that you couldn’t possibly fathom now.
Joseph from your recent posts you sound like a very nice person. I should have been more respectful to you earlier. Sorry. (I still think your opinions are crazy though. No offense)
LU I’m curious could you give examples of critical information you got in research that you wouldn’t have found out on the firstsecond date?
Health: “I consider myself as being a mentch! Who says you are?!?”.
Do you have any idea how childish that sounds?
“If you’re Zocheh – you’ll end up with a guy like me!”
That’s great. We all should have good opinion of ourselves.
Honestly your responses are so irellevant I think you should get the troll treatment and be ignored.
LU have fun.
Golfer lol
As a side note, while it may seems there are many threads here about shiduchim, there are actually very few or none. The closest thing to a shiduch thread was the one about moving to Canada.
I had a few topics I considered posting about but I wasn’t sure if there was crowd for that.
LU you’re welcome. You clearly put a lot thought into your posts and I appreciate that.
Joseph let’s take the topic of divorce as an example.
Here’s what a discussion between us should look like:
You: 99% of divorces are avoidable. Most divorces happen because women are interested in romance which is a non-jewish concept.
Me: 1. Did you make a research? 2. How are they avoidable? Clearly most coupless try counsling so what else should they do? 3. How is the idea of romance different than the idea of “Mechabda Yoter Migufo”.
You: 1. No but I trust Arav Miller who had much wisdom and experience 2. Fixing marriage takes a lot of effort which the women aren’t willing to take 3. Romance is about excitement and fancy restaurants which has nothing to do with respect and live.
This wouldn’t end here as I wouldn’t agree with this imaginery you. But this is an discussion.
Instead it goes like this: everyone tries to think and explain their side, while you simply keep bringing quotes from various rabanim to enforce your original statement.
Unfortunately you manage to dumb down the entire discussion, and instead of arguing about CONTENT everyone tries to argue whether Arav Miller is 1. A godel 2. As godel as… 3. Can we even decide who is greater (all worthy issues but not the ONLY issues in the life of a jewish person)
You treat issues and psaks like black boxes. You don’t care what’s inside. You leave the thinking to Rav Miller. But how did Arav Miller get to what he got? By walking around with open eyes and thinking, and surely not by always looking for a quote that’s the closest match to the situation at hand.
LU while I I wouldn’t say that you’re wasting your time in this discussion – as your posts are of interest to me and probably other members – I do want to point out one thing.
Reading yours and Joseph’s posts in this discussion and others, it’s clear that you (and most other posters) are interested in the way Torah relates to your own life, while Joseph on the other hand is only interested in what the Torah says (The Torah and the various poskim)
Just read every one of his posts. He barely ever responds to an argument other than to say “yes but this Rav says so and so”. On the rare cases where he seems to express his own opinions and beliefs he is actually half-quoting some source.
An example of this is his recent claim that it could be beneficial to bring back polygamy. Unless He just arrived from space, the only way he could say such a thing without even considering why everyone else find it revolting is if he just don’t care at all what the Hlacha is about. He doesn’t understand that it’s meant to instruct human people in their lives, not an army of robots.
It’s a little pointless (just a little) to bring up brilliant arguments and analyze situations when arguing with someone who doesn’t care at all about content, only Asur and Mutar.
(Joseph obviously I have nothing against you as a person. I only have issue with your attitude when it comes to Halachic discussions)
Abba_S it’s the second time today you’ve offered LU dating advice she didn’t ask you for. I have to say that: You’re acting weird.
Meno I suppose that happens when you daven and your mind drifts off to yesterday’s date. You recreate it in your mind only now you say all the right things! That’s dating while davening.
I guess you could have have referred to when a guy remembers during the date that he didn’t daven Mincha, and so he apologizes nicely and steps aside to daven. That would be speed davening as well probably!
The opening post exemplify everything I hate about bad Chinuch.
You could explain what is the conception of romance, why is it wrong and what’s is the true meaning of marriage.
Instead you just make a vague statement (romance is bad) say that some Rav said it’s very bad, and that it also causes a lot of divorces. You also say that many women have these misconception (so that they can recognize the evil thoughts when they come and drive them away)
Children absorb all this nonsense and they grow up and think: “So if I want him to remember my birthday, is that romance? Am I risking our marriage by expecting him to call me from work once a day”? Because you never explained anything to them. You just scared them.
Joseph thank you for opening an interesting thread! I was afraid it was going to be Trump forever!
Meno:”I understand that it has become acceptable, but I don’t think it should be.
Some people work for a living, others learn for a living. The learning people should take learning as seriously as the working people take working.”
I’m not so sure about that. Maybe people can take learning seriously and still be late to Kolel. While surely it’s important to keep times, some people might have to be somewhere else, or they are just not punctual.
There are actually job places where it’s acceptable to come to work late. I hear programmers do this often. why not compare learners to them? Or to self-employed people who come and go as they please?
It could be a problem of Gezel though, if someone gets payed for full hours while not being there all the time…
Joseph: “Davening is part of the Avoda of a learning man”
Davening is part of the Avoda of every man or woman! It doesn’t take from the rest of what you said, but I just couldn’t read this sentence.
“So spending more time davening at the expense of an equal amount of time of less learning is not a problem and is, indeed, just as worthy as his learning.”
I’m not sure everyone would agree. Do you have sources for that?
What if you finish Shmone Esre in 1.5 minutes, but you daven at a minyan where they take 5 minutes to finish. Is davening there still worth the time?
To answer the question, I think it’s an individual matter. Everyone should be aware of where they are in Avodas Hashem and which Minyan is appropriate for them (But like many good things today, where you daven has become a matter of social status)
On a side note, i’m considering this new internet law: “As a frum online discussion grows longer, the probability of it becoming a learners-workers fight approaches 1”. I hope this thread refutes it (:
LU thank you! I was just going to suggest the same thing, because I know very little about the american goverment system.
So here’s my list. Please don’t be offended, these are just steryotypes and of course they don’t reflect your whole personality in real life or as it’s expressed here.
Ministry of Defense: Syag Lechochma (because we need someone strong).
Ministry of Education: lilmod ulelamaid.
Ministry of Religous Affairs: Joseph.
Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Meno (because he’ll be able to make fun of them without them knowing it)
I’ll try to think of more.
zahavasdad when someone tells me a story I’ll NEVER believe every word he says. I’ll ask him many question so that I know which parts he actually witnessed, which ones he heard and which ones he just made up. That’s very fundemantal about critical thinking.
Now that’s me, and I’m not an exceptionally smart guy. It takes a LOT of shrewdness to be a great Oived Hashem (real Oived Hashem and not just full of frumkeit). That’s why I think the story about Gdoylei Yisrael believing every word that some Batlen tells them without questioning is pure fiction.
Thank you for the interesting question.
What in particular gave you the impression the Haredi community disregards secular studies? If it’s because they are not taught at schools, that’s not because they are not valued, but because other things are valued much more. We believe it’s much much more important to raise the next R’ Akiva Eiger than the next Newton, but that doesn’t mean a Newton is worthless.
I’m not saying you won’t find Haredim who think all secular studies are worthless. But you’ll find people who say all sorts of things. Why they do that is a question for sociologists and I doubt the answers will uncover any important truth.
mw13 I did misunderstand you. Thank you for explaining.
Regarding your second question: I’ve met some charedi people who think moisdes chinuch in E”Y should have more secular studies than they do today. But they said so simply because they found it reasonable, not because they thought we have obligation to the medina.
If the Education Ministry made some demand that everyone could agree was unreasonable (for example that all schools must be co-ed) I doubt you’d find any charedi who’d say we should listen to them just because they give us money.
LU I’m very enthusiastic about hashokofe discussions myself, So I could identify with you.
And your presence is welcomed.
apushatayid at least this way it doesn’t disturb other people by ringing loudly.
Meno I felt the reasons given weren’t enough to explain the attitude.
What I think about the reasons:
It’s illeagal: that just make it impposible to carry out. It doesn’t make it a bad idea theoretically (And does anyone what the background for this law? Why was it necessery to make it?)
Dangerous: If there is an emergency you could use the landline. Some people have big homes. Do they carry their phone with them around the house in case there is an emergency?
I just think it’s ok to have it. I’m not saying every beit kneset should have it.
Seems like a pretty cool idea. Why is everyone against it? Don’t you at least see the pros?
Sparkly I guess there is just no discussions they found interested in. If you want to see them back I suggest that you post something on some haskafa matter.
american_yerushalmi: why are you getting so worked up? so akuperma thinks he and his friends are the only true chareidim. Let him think so.
To the OP: I find your question a little strange.
Question 1 is directed at people who think the Israeli state is so evil it’s immoral to take money from it. Than you ask whether it’s moral for The same evil state to take money from the US. Didn’t we agree it (the state) was immoral anyway?
Question 2: What does it mean if the US “should be able to” dictate? there are no ethics in politics. If they want to dictate, they can try. If they manage to, good for them.
It sounds like you’re trying to make a point but you think it’ll be clearer if you didn’t actually make it. Please do say what’s bothering you about the US giving money to Israel.
WinnieThePooh: Do you really think Sparkly is the one who needs Dan Lekaf Zchus? You exposed her for no reason accept to ammuse your buddies. You keep making fun of her and talking about her like she doesn’t read it. And now she has to explain herself to you?
I could stand all of that, but I really couldn’t stand you mentioning Elul.
I think everyone else is just amused.
Joseph didn’t you say halacha aside??
Isn’t there a midrash saying they killled the boys to prevent Moshe being born? If so it’s not really relevant.
Joseph what’s the correct answer about the Titanic? I’m curious.
Meno just google it.
Oh no.