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Joseph,
I’d rather send my kids to a home with a TV that’s off where there is peace and respect than to one with no TV where there is acrimony and disrespect.
If your primary method for parenting is regulation it’s not going to work for very long. I have no problem with the Rambam and Mechaber but you still didn’t answer the question about how often you let your isha out. Do you also beat her with a stick if you feel she’s not accepting your regulations? I’m sure you’re well versed in that Rambam also. Why did the Rambam write it if we’re not supposed to do so nowadays?
Someone such as yourself who is always making blanket pronouncements and judgements on entire groups of people he never met must be on a very high madrega indeed. Please, share with us the hanhagos you use to guide your home, which you’ve learned from the Gedolim you are so close to.
Joseph,
“Nitwit”? I must have really hit a nerve if you’re resorting to pejoratives!
We do not determine the homes our children visit based primarily upon whether they have TV or unfiltered internet (which we do not). We do so based primarily upon our familiarity with the parents and the home they have built. There are homes that have TV with parents who genuinely respect the fact that we don’t and keep it off. There are homes that don’t have TV which we will never let our children visit.
You seem to be focused on “regulating” your children. In reality, the most effective method of parenting is to be the kind of person you want your children to emulate. Regardless, you mentioned the Rambam and Mechaber and still didn’t answer the question. How often do you let your isha out of the house? Do you also regulate her?
“Rambam says a woman shouldn’t go outside more than once or twice a month.”
Joseph,
Does your isha go outside more than once or twice a month? How is “too much” defined in your home? I saw your other post about regulating who your children are friends with.
You also recently posted a request for a source that a person may not steal to support his Torah learning.
It’s rather disturbing to read what you believe literally and without question vs. what you need quoted chapter and verse. You have written about your relationship with various Gedolim and Roshei Yeshiva but your posts seem to indicate otherwise.
Are you a troll who wants to make those who take Torah seriously look bad or do you need counseling?
Charlie,
Chazal, including the Rambam, would cringe at how you pervert Judaism to support your warped liberal ideas.
Only a sick mah-yofis could comment so favorably about Obama and Carter, yet be so vile to fellow Jews.
“Jews can keep Shabat and Kashrut but have brains that function like gentile bigots. It is a Chilul HaShem.”
Charlie,
You’ve really gone off the deep end this time.
How dare you malign and criticize other Jews! You, who can do nothing but slavishly defend a failed political ideology. You, who considers Avi Weiss to be your spiritual adviser.
The way you twist Judaism to fit your sick, liberal world-view, now that’s a Chilul HaShem!
“Their bodies may be keeping mitzvot but their minds are not thinking the way a Jew thinks.”
Charlie,
You dare impugn the minds of other Jews? You, who can do nothing but slavishly defend a failed political ideology? You, who considers Avi Weiss to be your spiritual adviser?
Worry about the Jewishness of your own mind.
“You think Hillary is a sleaze ball? Find. Vote for the sleaze ball. Its important.”
Charlie,
There you go again, trying to sound like an expert when all you have is an irrational allegiance to a failed, outdated political philosophy. You never tire of shouting into the wind that Democrats adore Jews, Obama loves Israel and Carter should have a Refuah Sheleima. Just like the classic, self-hating mah-yafis of old.
Seven posts and counting, just on this thread? You’re becoming absolutely hysterical and have made a complete laughingstock of yourself.
Gavra,
Please look carefully in YD; it seems you skipped the word “lene’arim”. It’s tzedaka to support the Torah learning of children, which is incumbent upon their parents/community to provide. It’s not incumbent upon a community to support the Torah learning of able-bodied adults who choose to learn in kollel.
“Are you Chozer regarding Rav Heinemann’s Psak on ovens no longer being valid?”
Am I chozer on his psak no longer being valid? It’s for me to say his psak isn’t valid? Huh?
Gavra,
No Gadol anywhere said that contributions to “Adopt A Kollel” are mandatory, just as contributions to any kollelim over the past 70 years haven’t been mandatory. It’s a voluntary Yissachar-Zevulun partnership which is by definition hachzakas haTorah and not tzedaka.
Harav Heinemann’s views are most certainly mainstream and can’t be written-off merely based on his one position regarding ovens.
You seem to enjoy quoting things in the name of “Gedolim” a great deal, even though you can’t ever seem to back them up. After “work”, why not try learning a bit instead. You may want to start with Hilchos Tzedaka.
“Of Star K and Shabbos Oven fame? Puk Chazi that the Gedolim in EY disagree with him.”
What a childish red-herring, even from you. This is a simple question of the definition of tzedaka and nowhere do the Gedolim of E”Y disagree. Regarding the ovens, Harav Heinemann, shlita, told people to listen to the Gedolim.
Get back to work, gavra.
“The Gemorah Bava Basra and L’havdil, the Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel disagree with you.”
I personally asked Harav Moshe Heinemann, shlita, this very question. He replied that supporting able-bodied people who choose to learn in kollel, while laudable, is not considered tzedaka, which is mandatory. It’s considered hachzakas haTorah, which is completely voluntary.
The Gemara in Bava Basra is discussing tzedaka, which is mandatory and therefore ch”v taken by force if not given willingly. Tzedaka is to help those who can’t otherwise help themselves. Not to help those who choose not to help themselves, whatever the reason.
Hilchos Matanos Aniyim does not contain anything that can even be remotely misconstrued to support a generous welfare state. Even by the most creative Torah-twisters of the world like Charlie and his spiritual adviser, Avi Weiss.
To the contrary, based on the tzedaka parameters enumerated there, both regarding the giver and the recipient, the RAMBAM would be against such a system. Such sick “generosity” has taken trillions of dollars in income from the pockets of hard-working people and mostly wasted it on those who despise hard work. Worse, it has created an increasing cycle of dependency that has ruined generations.
Then there’s the silly idea of advocating a welfare state to support able-bodied people who decide to learn in kollel. That wouldn’t be considered tzedaka, which is mandatory. At best, for the actually deserving few, it would be considered hachzakas haTorah, which isn’t mandatory.
“only his support for a generous welfare state are certainly Torah-true. See for example Rambam Hilchot Matanot Aniyim. Note that all the Gedolim in Medinat Yisrael have consistently supported similar policies there.”
Charlie,
So an outlook that doesn’t support a generous welfare state in the U.S. isn’t Torah-true? Also, please name some of “all the Gedolim in Medinat Yisrael” that support it there as well as where they wrote this.
Our political expert, Charlie Hall, would tell us that Bernie Sanders is the most Torah-true candidate due to his ultra-liberal policies.
Right, Charlie?
Bubba21,
Is this a “troll” post? In the recent thread regarding YU Bochurim you decried the blanket rejection of YU and acceptance of Mir, a point on which many agree with you.
However, you also said, “I do have a chip on my shoulder” and I’m wondering if you’re trying to exacerbate things with this post.
Joseph,
Please seek professional help right away. You are not well.
Joseph,
Why are you in favor of it, as your original question still stands: How do we know that Yidden ought to be celebrating a wedding “anniversary” altogether? This word is not mentioned in Tanach, Mishna, Gemara or Poskim. Therefore, it should automatically qualify as Chukas Hagoyim.
Just like every other simple joy in life you have “questioned”.
Joseph,
As usual, you’re right. A much more appropriate way to celebrate an anniversary, if at all, is to sit on the floor, crying, in sackcloth and ashes. Just like in your house.
Good times.
Joseph,
If you have nothing to prove then what compels you to constantly make such holier-than-thou proclamations?
You come across as being extremely insecure.
On the contrary, you have just proven exactly what we presumed about you.
Joseph,
What a happy place your home must be.
Get help. Fast.
“For you perhaps I should expect less and still be happy at least you keep more than a Half Shabbos. 😉 Obviously I’d expect much more from the Rosh Yeshiva’s einekel.”
If you’re referring to me, I have always kept “Full Shabbos” and am not a Rosh Yeshiva’s einekel.
As Wolf wrote, he owes you no promises and it’s not his job, or that of anyone else, to make you happy.
Get help.
“Isn’t it proper to first ask the question whether Yidden ought to be celebrating a wedding “anniversary” altogether?”
“At least promise me that you will only celebrate on the Jewish date and not on the non-Jewish date.”
Joseph,
Why is it that no matter what anyone asks or writes, you can be counted on to find some chumradik-sounding fault with it? Are you such a perfect tzadik that you can now turn your attention to criticizing others?
You are either a troll or a sick individual. If you’re really being serious, please get professional help quickly before you destroy yourself and your relationships!
I’m sorry, Charlie can’t be reached right now. He’s on his knees, davening to his “Torah candidate”, Bernie Sanders.
“Obama isn’t anti-Israel.”
A person has to be a terribly sick, sad mah-yafis to actually write this after seven years!
“If we elect a bigot like Trump or a theocrat like Cruz we may have to leave.”
Charlie,
After seven years without a word against anti-Israel Obama you bash Trump and Cruz and then call another Jew a fool?
Sick.
Others are Rochelle Goldberg, Mashe Katz, Keren Traub, Michelle Mond and Shulamit Gartenhaus
Try whitepages.com for contact info.
To all those who are the slightest bit critical of the questioner, perhaps you’d like to contact the mods and arrange to generously assist him financially.
No?
Then shut up.
newbee,
To sum it up a different way:
Daas Yochid = agreed with you
Other people = didn’t agree with you
In regards to “literal fascism” and “passionate responses”, interestingly, the most glaring examples were posted by you –
on Page 1 of this thread:
“it was probably geared towards very wealthy MO BTs who love expensive food and Rov Joseph Ber Soloveitchik (in that order)”
and on this page:
“completely hypocritical RIDICULOUS and BLATANTLY GLUTTONIS”
newbee,
“A previous dinner similar to this was titled ‘An Education with Every Bite!’ Another one was titled ‘A dinner of extreme halachic importance!'”
R. Meir Soloveichik, whom you named when you began this thread, did not promote it that way.
DY,
“calling it ‘halachic’ makes it sound like a mitzvah.”
Maybe in your mind it does but for those who read the actual promotion, it doesn’t. So this entire thread was started to criticize unknown Jews over what one word may or may not convey and what a group of people should or should not be eating?
Perhaps we all need to concentrate a bit more on judging ourselves than on judging others.
Once again, aside from newbee, nobody idealized the meal.
The promotion merely stated, “Rabbi Soloveichik will entertain and enlighten with a special lecture over dinner. We’ll learn about some far out there kosher foods, and we’ll eat a few of them too.”
It’s called a “Halakhic Dinner” because halachos are taught about what is eaten.
newbee,
So now you’re calling an entire group of Jews you never met, “gluttons”?
The words “?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ???” do not refer to someone who eats a single, sumptuous meal but to someone who makes a regular practice of doing so.
Although perhaps, for someone on your high level a single, sumptuous meal would qualify as “nivul”. The panel will decide once you post what you have consumed over the past week.
newbee,
“PS, make sure to come because there will be a shiur given! So its all good”
I’m not disagreeing that it was an elegant dinner but nobody, aside from you, ever billed it as a ruchniyus event. And ubiquitin is correct, for one person eating steak every day may be nivul birshus hatorah, while for another it may be putting butter on his bread. If we picked apart your entire menu (still waiting for it), I’m sure we could find items that would be considered nivul for some, even if you decide that they’re not nivul for you. Kedoshim Tihyu is a personal standard that individual Jews must set for themselves without criticism from others.
oyyoyyoy,
“Btw being the great nephew of a big person is by no means a haskamah”
I never claimed that R. Meir Soloveichik’s being a great nephew was a haskamah. My point was that he, a talmid chacham and yorei shamayim in his own right, would never use his great uncle to “push liberal agendas that are detrimental to authentic Jewish practice”.
newbee,
“My point is simple: the idea of indulging in gashmius in the name of ruchnuius is wrong. Period. End of story.”
Aside from you, nobody claimed that the purpose of the dinner was to indulge in gashmius in the name of ruchnius.
oyyoyyoy,
I never claimed the mitzva of kedoshim tihyu doesn’t exist and I personally would never attend this kind of event, in part for that very reason. But that’s my personal view and I defend the choice of any Jew who wishes to attend such an event without being rebuked for it.
The spiritual level of R. Meir Soloveichik’s following is his business and while he doesn’t need anyone’s approval, he also doesn’t deserve criticism. Especially from those who don’t come anywhere near him in learning and yiras shamaim.
newbee,
You’re the only person claiming that it was billed as a “dinner of kedusha and tahara”.
The promotion merely stated, “Rabbi Soloveichik will entertain and enlighten with a special lecture over dinner. We’ll learn about some far out there kosher foods, and we’ll eat a few of them too.”
It’s called a “Halakhic Dinner” because halachos are taught about what is eaten.
Was this entire thread just a straw-man argument for you to criticize other Jews and thereby feel good about yourself?
newbee,
The organizer of this event was R. Meir Soloveichik, great nephew of Rov Yoseph Ber Soloveichik. So now you are accusing him of using “Rov Yoseph Ber to push liberal agendas that are detrimental to authentic Jewish practice i.e the masorah”? And of “particularly disregarding the concept of ‘nuval bereshus hatorah’ and glorifying the idea of ‘elevating gashmius'”?
Nice.
newbee,
You could have limited yourself to pointing out that the glorification of indulgence is not a Torah value.
Instead, you chose to start a thread in order to mock a group of Jews you never even met. You labeled them as “very wealthy MO BTs who love expensive food and Rov Joseph Ber Soloveitchik (in that order)”.
We’re still waiting for you to account for everything you ate and drank over the past week.
oyyoyyoy,
“I am definitely someone who is severely lacking in the midah of not being a behaimah”
Then keep working on yourself. But are you really suggesting that Rabbi Meir Soloveichik, a huge talmid chacham and yorei shamayim, spat upon the truth? He has an absolute right to decide what is proper for his following and I have a feeling that your learning and yiras shamayim is nowhere near his. It would take a true gadol to say such a thing.
The problem is not with the words of the gedolim. The problem is the way you are using those words to criticize and label Jews you never met for not having attained a certain level of perishus.
Let’s see if you are truly worthy of rebuking others. Once again, please post a complete accounting of _everything_ you ate and drank over the past week, to include breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, etc., along with precise measurements. Not just, “I generally eat chicken and rice. Sometimes hamburgers and rice.”
What are you afraid of?
newbee,
I’m sorry, I didn’t realize what a holy individual you are.
Please post a complete accounting of _everything_ you ate and drank over the past week, to include breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, etc., along with precise measurements. Not just, “I generally eat chicken and rice. Sometimes hamburgers and rice.”
As a true ba’al mussar, you certainly have this list already compiled and will welcome the opportunity to ensure that you are not chas v’shalom a menuval birshus hatorah in the slightest way.
newbee,
A group of people attended a dinner where they were served exotic dishes that aren’t usually eaten along with halachic explanations of what they were eating and why. They came together for an event of learning and enjoyment, and did not violate any Torah or Rabbinic laws.
You chose to start a thread in order to mock a group of people you never even met. You labeled them as “very wealthy MO BTs who love expensive food and Rov Joseph Ber Soloveitchik (in that order)”. You criticized them for not having attained a level of perishus that you read about in a mussar sefer.
You think you’re a ba’al mussar? You feel like a high school rebbe? Get off your high horse and realize that mussar is a tool for self-improvement, not a weapon with which to find fault with others while making yourself feel superior.
You missed the entire point of Mesillas Yesharim. You may want to begin with something easier, perhaps Rabbi Baruch Chait’s excellent Good Middos Series for children. It has plenty of pictures and easy words.
newbee,
There is very little emes and zero ahavas yisrael in your posts. You used Mesillas Yesharim to criticize an entire group of people that you don’t even know.
What a shame that you twisted the words of your rebbe into a weapon with which to attack others!
mentsch1,
Here’s a simple example of how one is supposed to worry more about the gashmius of others than their ruchnius: When inviting guests, one should not say, “It would be wrong of me to serve them a sumptuous meal because that would encourage teivah and physical pleasure”. One can limit the foods he or she eats and thereby minimize their own physical pleasure but one should not do so to others.
A true baal musar works on himself and isn’t so focused on giving tochacha to others, especially in matters where he is weak.
mentsch1,
As ubiquitin wrote, you should show your children that you are genuinely happy for others and teach them your derech which emphasizes the spiritual over the physical wherever possible.
Learning and musar are not about improving others, they’re about improving ourselves. Learning and musar help us improve our own ruchnius while improving the gashmius of others.
newbee,
A profound point, but not really relevant to this discussion.
Please include a comprehensive list of everything you have eaten over the past week in your next post. We’re still waiting.
mentsch1,
That’s beautiful!
But what do you tell them about the neighbors living in mansions who did have a yeshiva background like you?
My point is, you’re not going to change anyone by criticizing their choices on YWN or any other forum. You also won’t teach your children the proper lessons by doing so.
newbee,
I have no problem with your saying whatever you want, nor am I trying to silence you. Please continue, it’s quite entertaining!
Since you are so keen to judge others for what they eat, please include a detailed accounting of everything you have eaten in the past week, so that we can judge you. I’m sure you’ve been keeping this list, as all good baalei mussar do.
mentsch1,
Then don’t live in a mansion. You still have no right to point your own fingers at anyone else, nor will you impart the proper chinuch to your children by doing so.
You’ll simply teach them to point fingers, just like tatty did.
newbee,
The purpose of learning Mesilas Yesharim and other musar works is not to improve others, it’s to improve yourself. If you want to go through life “pas bamelech”, that’s your business. While it may make you feel holy and superior, you are not a Rav or a Manhig and have no right whatsoever to criticize others, especially if they are not violating any Torah or Rabbinic laws. As the musar giants have noted, one should worry about improving their own ruchnius while improving the gashmius of others.
mentsch1,
Rabbi Frand’s point is very timely and relevant but it’s meant for each person to internalize on their level, not as a platform to rebuke others. Rabbi Frand himself will be leading a luxury tour of Europe this summer, just as he has done previously. The itinerary will not include musar sessions on why the participants are wrong to be on such a luxurious tour. In regards to chinuch, one cannot influence their children’s choices by criticizing the choices other people make. One can only do so by showing their children through example how rich their lives are regardless of designer labels.