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laskern,
Don’t listen to Joseph, he’s making up fake halacha again. Isn’t it interesting that he’s always machmir? Ask your LOR instead and you’ll see that Joseph is wrong as usual.
“But even so the heter is only to the extent absolutely necessary, and no more.”
Joseph,
So once a woman calculates that she’s earned enough to buy beans and rice for the day she should tell her boss she’s going home? That may be acceptable in the public school system where you spend your time but not in the real working world. Quoting general sources that are not applicable to practical, individual situations is just using fake halacha to find fault with other Jews. But I think you know that already.
“Throughout history until relatively not that long ago it was almost unheard of for them to work outside of their home.”
Joseph,
One of the primary reasons that women in our communities go out to work is to provide support so their husbands can learn long-term. This is especially true in larger families where it’s simply not possible for parents to finance this for all of their married children. Are you suggesting that this practice be discontinued or have you discovered some other method of paying for it?
Omer,
The Nitei Gavriel on Pesach (volume 3, 29:9) discusses the custom in some Sephardic communities to hold salt in one’s hand while making the bracha of Sefiras Haomer.
“who cares if the yeshiva bachorim dont learn english as long as they have good middos”
Cholent,
Nobody cares, until they grow up and have to support themselves by begging in shul or can’t resist opening their mouths when a microphone is put in front of it, like these fine examples:
ANOTHER GENIUS: Watch This Williamsburg Anti-Vaxxer “Community Activist” Give Media Interview
Breuer’s was one of the yeshivos that bochurim attended while going to college during the tenure of R. Schwab, zt”l,and a number of his grandchildren graduated from college.
“I have no problem, as long as the graduates refrain from applying for welfare benefits because they’re unqualified for anything but low paying teaching positions”
Anon,
Who says they are qualified to teach? There is another profession open to them; it’s a safe bet that very few of the able-bodied men who beg for tzedaka in shul have High School diplomas.
“Regarding High School, the only reasons it is allowed is either because education is mandated by State Law (in New York it is until age 17), or simply because if they did not have High School education in the Yeshivas, parents would simply send their kids to worse places to get it.”
Joseph,
More fake halacha from you and your aliases. About ten years ago at the Torah Umesorah convention, Harav Avraham Chaim Levin, zt”l spoke proudly about the secular High School education in his yeshiva. That as a matter of principle it has always been mandatory and that his alumni can match those of any Yeshiva in Torah and Yiras Shamayim, because of it and not in spite of it. He then mentioned his grandson-in-law, who excelled in secular High School studies and made a siyum on Shas before his wedding.
“Ari: That’s a load of bunk”
Joseph,
No, it’s not. Rabbi Pesach Krohn has been advocating publicly in his lectures for the past few years that people invite older single boys and girls to their Shabbos tables so that they can meet.
You may not like it but he actually consults regularly with Da’as Torah and truly loves every Jew. Can we say the same about you?
Yehudah,
The Star-K published a comprehensive article in their Fall 2018 issue of Kashrus Kurrents which discusses all of the Halachic challenges that can arise on a cruise. It’s available for free on their website; read it carefully to familiarize yourself with the issues and then consult with your LOR.
Uri22,
Please concentrate; the topic of this thread is whether corporal punishment is permitted nowadays in the classroom. We are talking about the children of this generation, not previous generations.
“However i am mature enough to understand that this is a result of growing up in a very sensitive culture that doesn’t reflect the Torah’s view on these issues.”
Uri22,
The Torah’s view on corporal punishment in the classroom has been clearly expressed by the gedolim of our generation and the overwhelming majority are against it.
“The concept of a total ban on petch by rebbeim is very very new; something that only developed during the last generation or two (or three – no more.)”
Joseph,
And that’s the topic at hand: should rabbeim be hitting children in our generation and contemporary gedolim tell us that it’s destructive to do so.
Uri22,
I assert that corporal punishment is never permitted nowadays in the classroom, period. Please concentrate, that’s the topic of this thread. So again, where did R. Ovadia Yosef, zt”l or any contemporary gadol write otherwise?
Uri22,
Rav Ovadia Yosef, zt”l allowed parents to hit children in certain instances but where did he write that rabbeim may do so? In addition, what might work in Sephardic culture is irrelevant to the non-Sephardic world. Any gadol will tell you that while hitting may have worked two thousand or even two hundred years ago, it can irreparably harm the children of our generation and drive them away from Torah.
“It’s a good thing Joseph works in the NYC Public Schools and can’t legally hit students. For those concerned about his children, don’t be. Joseph is all talk and no action.”
CT,
You assume that since Joseph works for the public schools and one of his children lived in your home for two summers that he’s not abusive. What if you’re wrong? I realize that Joseph is a nasty troll but plenty of red flags have been raised over the years and he clearly becomes most animated at the thought of violence against women and children. As an officer of the court, don’t you have an obligation to allow the authorities to investigate this matter as opposed to just assuming that he’s harmless? Could you live with yourself if your assumptions turned out to be wrong?
” I don’t advocate hitting children, but I can appreciate hearing arguments on both sides for the sake of discussion.”
Uri22,
Advocating for corporal punishment in school is not a legitimate view since our gedolim and chinuch experts have stated unequivocally that it’s counterproductive in our generation so therefore it’s assur. Hearing arguments on both sides for the sake of discussion makes as much sense as hearing arguments on the pros and cons of eating pork for the sake of discussion.
“Joseph is all talk and no action.”
CT,
Are you implying that Joseph is a troll? I’m shocked I tell you, shocked.
“Sometimes corporal punishment is the most effective teaching tool.”
Here we go again. After a brief hiatus, Joseph is back to advocate that we beat the stuffing out of defenseless children. Gedolim and educators of every stripe caution against doing so in our generation due to the destructive effect this has. How ever do we properly educate stubborn Joseph in this matter? Perhaps a good whipping will help.
“Stop for a minute and think.”
Avram,
A misogynist doesn’t think or care about the physical and emotional needs of mere females. Your sound arguments won’t sway his warped worldview that mandates women must remain confined to the harim.
“Meno, is it your contention that the Yidden in Eretz Yisroel today (let alone all the doros and doros of Yidden before America) don’t respect women?”
Joseph,
I think Meno’s contention might be that you don’t respect women; your hostility and disdain for them oozes forth every time you troll. Happy now?
Joseph,
“But I’m dealing with the metzius of our weak, sinful, generation”
Your own words.
“Phil: That’s false. I’ve never said that or anything resembling that.”
Joseph,
You sure did; on 8/7/17:
Sima commented at 2:17pm:
“Joseph and Yekke2 are both right so maybe the Chassidish way is better – just meet in the parents or the shadchan’s home. No deciding where to go etc and the girl is not expected to arrive as though she is a film star.”to which Joseph replied at 2:56pm:
“Of course this isn’t ideal. But I’m dealing with the metzius of our weak, sinful, generation. Ideally, of course, we should change how Sima, above, in her comment rightfully suggested. But until we reach that madreiga (may it be very soon) we need to deal with the facts on the ground that the non-Chasidish and super-Yeshivish oilem deals with this.”The best comment on that thread by far was from mylogic37:
“Joseph, I hope you are kidding and just trolling. If not you seriously need help.”to which the mods replied:
“You must be new here. Welcome”Joe, please try to keep better track of your offensive, judgmental comments from now on, okay?
Joseph,
What an odd question from someone who has called our generation “sinful” for not universally adopting Beshow dating, which takes place in the girl’s home.
“wouldnt it be ironic if “joseph” was female”
apushatayid,
Wouldn’t it be ironic if Joseph was lying about having 3 wives and 27 children, if in truth he’s never actually been married. That would explain his obvious cluelessness regarding females but not his disdain or hostility.
“Whereas guys might do the same with no justifiable reason, they don’t have a specific halacha or aveira against going out.”
Joseph,
So now you’re paskening that a properly dressed female who goes out of the house “with no justifiable reason” has committed an aveira? What is the source of this whopper of a fake halacha, aside from your sick disdain for girls and women?
“Do you agree that it is wrong for them to be out, such as שפּאַצירן or cavorting, when there’s really no justifiable reason to do so?”
Joseph,
Do you let your 3 wives and 27 children out of the house to take a relaxing walk or visit friends, or do you consider that “cavorting, when there’s really no justifiable reason to do so”?
DY,
Here’s one of many:
“CS – Aba Chilkiya’s wife stayed home the whole day. (The Gemorah mentions this when explaining why she gave more tzedaka than her husband.) Which, not so incidentally, aligns with the psak in both Shulchan Aruch and Rambam that a wife should not leave her home too much. Rambam specifies a specific limit on the number of times per month her husband should let her out whereas the Shulchan Aruch doesn’t put an actual number other than to pasken not to go out much.”
Joseph has repeatedly criticized our generation, calling what we have today a “travesty”, which no Posek or Rosh Yeshiva has done. Instead of finding fault with every single community, he should enlighten us as to how his own family lives up to his high standards. Otherwise, he simply enjoys criticizing other Jews for things he doesn’t keep, which is the textbook definition of a nasty troll.
BTW, the YWN moderators recently labeled Joseph as a troll and a stalker:
““Moderators Note: Not only is a he a troll on YWN in the comments section, but he a confirmed 100% real life stalker, who has stalked many people through YWN. And no, this is not a joke.”
“Not a single posek in the universe disagrees with the quoted Shulchan Aruch or any of the other poskim cited.”
Joseph,
Please enlighten our sinful generation as to how the females in your family of 3 wives and 27 children implement your interpretation of halacha. Do they leave the house to attend school, work or shul? Are they allowed to go shopping or visit friends? How frequently can they go out and do they wear burkas when doing so? Instead of always criticizing others for not maintaining your high standards, you should be discussing how to implement them. Unless of course you’re just a nasty troll.
” I have the Torah, Chazal and literally all the poskim on my side”
Joseph,
In your fevered mind, the entire Jewish world, including BP, Lakewood, Monsey, KJ, London, Manchester, Jerusalem and Bnei Brak, where females can be seen going to school, to work and walking in the street, are acting against your interpretation of Torah. Yet, the Gedolim, Poskim and Roshei Yeshiva aren’t constantly and publicly decrying this travesty. So what are you, the great zealot of our generation going to do about it, aside from trolling?
“What we have today is a travesty, not better than the past, and far from the ideal”
Joseph,
Aside from trolling the web, what do you intend to do about this travesty? Perhaps you should patrol the streets and threaten females with a club like your violent heroes, the self-appointed modesty police of Beit Shemesh. I’m sure that’s what the holy voices in your head are telling you to do and I know you’d really enjoy it. It would also make your 3 wives and 27 children very proud.
“I would think/hope also that would be the reaction of any never married man, besides Joseph I suppose”
CS,
Are you insinuating that Joseph has never been married? How can that be if he claimed on another thread that he has 3 wives and 27 children?
“When the great of the greatest are in a heated argument, the hamon hoam is best to keep their heads out of it. If they know what’s good for them.”
Joseph,
This must be what you tell your 27 children when they see you fighting with your 3 wives. So what consequences are you threatening against those who decry these violent bochurim imitating their violent elders? Are you going to get violent with them if they don’t cease and desist forthwith?
“Phil, you can continue to envy the Chareidi community considering your MO has a 25-50% off the derech rate.”
Joseph,
That’s your infantile defense of two incidents of attempted murder within the charedi camp? Not really surprising, given how animated you get when posting in favor of beating up children. No wonder that Syag called your worldview “the sadistic joseph style imaginary Torah life” on another thread. While I may not be an E”Y charedi and certainly don’t envy them in any way, I’m also not and have never been MO. Regardless, you’d be hard pressed to find similar incidents within their camp and there are good reasons for that.
“And those rare unfortunate occurrences that do transpire, the level of violence is relatively tiny.”
Joseph,
Do you really think that the two charedim committed “relatively tiny” acts of violence when they attempted to stab two other charedim to death? Enough of your crocodile tears about charedim being “despised for their piety”. These incidents demonstrate that their piety may not go any deeper than the white shirts they wear. The attraction to violence and rioting in their communities has only increased in recent years and this is where it has led. It doesn’t originate externally from books, movies or smartphones so something is horrendously broken within their camp.
“The everyday violence and fighting among the Zionists, daati, masorti and chiloni, is overwhelmingly more frequent than the rare unfortunate occurrence you refer to in the OP.”
Joseph,
What a ridiculous and shallow statement. In addition to the violent brawl in Ponovezh Yeshiva, YWN reported other incidents of one charedi stabbing another, in Bnei Brak and Kiryat Sefer. And all you have to say is, “charedim are still better than everyone else”? I don’t recall any similarly violent incidents amongst other frum groups, let alone three of them in one week. You always claim that charedim have some kind of exclusive ownership on Torah learning so how can they commit such violence? These incidents are tragic and real introspection is what’s needed, not glib dismissals.
Joseph,
How sad that you are incapable of responding to simple questions about the criticism you constantly hurl at others. You will be judged exactly as you judge others and treated the way you treat them. Yet, you fool yourself every year into thinking that Yom Kippur will go well for you. I’m sure there are people who forgive every Jew but specifically exclude you for your nasty, hurtful trolling.
“You should avoid them to the maximum extent possible.”
Joseph,
Will you now be avoiding the internet to the maximum extent possible or are you once again spewing rebuke for things you also do? You spend untold hours trolling under multiple identities with the goal of hurting other Jews. The internet would be a better place without your negative presence.
“A survivor, survived. He probably needs therapy but the hardest part is generally behind him. He can hope to look forward with the past being a bygone and the future one of potential bliss.”
Joseph,
Anyone who can troll such an insensitive and inane comment should not count on being forgiven by those who are hurt by it. Even if said troll is the first person to bump the CR’s “forgiveness” thread every year in a sad and futile attempt to check that box.
“If it’s full time and not BMG, it’s a waste of time.”
1,
Your comment is a waste of time. What are you, another Joseph-persona with nothing better to do than troll and spew divisiveness? Moshe wants a place for himself that’s smaller than BMG; don’t post if you can’t make a constructive suggestion.
Joseph,
You love bringing sources from the Rambam and Pirkei Avos in order to criticize others but you’re so reluctant to confirm that you’re not guilty of the same. Why is that?
Do you learn at least 8 hours per day? Do you live on bread, salt and water in a tiny apartment?
Joseph,
How many hours do you actually spend learning every day and how do you fit the 3 wives and 27 children you claim to have into a tiny apartment?
“The Rambam writes that a typical Baal Habayis works 3 hours a day and learns 8. This is what a “working person” is. Three hours a day. 8 hours learning.”
Joseph,
You love to admonish others and noted the number of “waking hours in a day” but do you learn for at least eight hours on a daily basis? If you think the vast amount of time you waste trolling the web in your various persona is learning, then you’re deluding yourself.
1,
Posing questions on this site elicits fake halacha from Joseph. Ask your LOR and find one if you don’t have one.
Truth,
My company and many others in the U.S. have hired veterans by the tens of thousands. They’re paid much more than $15 per hour because we owe it to them and they’re worth it. One thing I don’t do for the greater good of the country is paint job-creators as rich and greedy, then lecture them about their lack of moral responsibility. How about you? What have you done for your country, aside from criticizing it on the web?
Truth,
Sure, just like you’re parroting class warfare screed from “International Socialist Review”. So now you advocate raising the minimum wage on behalf of veterans? They have and deserve preferential hiring status in U.S. government employment and many U.S. companies go out of their way to hire them. Veterans are disciplined, skilled and dedicated employees but I have no idea what relevance your quotes from the U.K. have to the subject at hand. Do you know anything at all about the U.S. economy or are you just quoting from anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn’s website?
JJ2020,
Nowhere in the Constitution is there a guarantee that everyone will earn a minimum salary of $30K per year. It shouldn’t be an employers responsibility to pay that much to menial workers, many of whom couldn’t be bothered to finish public high school, aren’t qualified to do anything else and make zero effort to better themselves. There are plenty of Walmart employees who started out by sweeping floors, worked hard and eventually became store mangers. If you don’t like it, then find a minimum wage worker and pay them out of your own pocket but don’t lecture hard working, job-creating business owners about their supposed moral obligations.