Majority/minority of published teshuvos/positions is irrelevant.

So why did your posek tell you that you cannot rely on the minority shitos?

Additionally, you haven’t addressed the last sentence in my first paragraph.

Based on your posts you obviously feel that the Shulchan Aruch/Rema/Mishna Berura have more weight than other poskim. So what’s your ????? Just follow the Rema’s opinion upon which the Mishna Berura says ??? ???? ?????.

For purposes of this discussion, let’s say the shittos requiring you to be drunk enough to be considered driving under the influence of alcohol

When you say “under the influence” I assume you mean legally – there is a range which is considered “driving impaired” yet has not yet reached the legal limit. Anyway, the legal limit is .08 BAC. For an average size man that would be somewhere around 4-5 drinks. For most people that is probably ???? ??????. It is certainly enough to be ????? ??? ?????. Is it enough to mix up gematrias/stanzas/greatness of salvations etc.? I don’t know. Is it enough to be ????? ?????? ??????? No.

DaasYochid:

I’ve been ???? ?????? on that ??? ???? for some time. Unless he has dozens of unpublished rishonim or a different view of what ?????? means, I don’t see how he can be correct.

Also see the ??? ??? who seems to imply that there might not be any shita that understands it ??????:

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=189&st=&pgnum=26

He is discussing whether one can exempt himself from paying for damage with the claim of ??? ?? ??”? ????? ??????. In support he quotes the Sha’arei Teshuva who quotes R’ Yaakov Emden that his father (the Chacham Tzvi) would be mekayeim it ?????? in his youth. Interesting how he didn’t simply quote all those who just quote Rava’s lashon, which would support my contention in my response to mw13. He then says that there’s no raya from the Chacham Tzvi because he was doing it as a personal chumra, ??? ?? ???? ????. If there were others who hold ???? ???? that it’s ?????? then his entire discussion of the Chacham Tzvi is pointless, and furthermore there would be no reason to assume that it was only a personal chumra.

mw13:

What I was saying is that the majority of rishonim/acharonim do not accept l’halacha the literal meaning of ?? ??? ???. This can either be because they hold that based on the subsequent story with Rabbah and R’ Zeira we don’t pasken like Rava, or it could be because they have some other interpretation of ?? ??? ???. I specifically noted, that among the sources I quoted there is variation in their positions. Some of them are more pro drinking than others.

Also, I’m not sure if we are on the same page regarding what is considered the literal meaning. I am including anything other than literally not knowing the difference between ???? ??? and ???? ????? So that includes anything to do with piyutim, stanzas, gematrias, etc.

As for the specific sources you quote, I would add to your list; however, I dispute it as I will explain following this list:

Ra’avan

Rid

Riaz

Itur

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37641&st=&pgnum=91&hilite=

Sefer Ha’orah

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8961&st=&pgnum=237&hilite=

All these sources, simply quote Rava’s statement. The Shulchan Aruch likewise quotes Rava’s statement. But I don’t think that proves that they agree l’halacha with the literal meaning of ?? ??? ???. Because Rava said the same words and according to many rishonim/acharonim it wasn’t meant literally.

Specifically when it comes to the Shulchan Aruch, I don’t see it as a stira at all. The Shulchan Aruch is meant to be a succinct summation of the halacha. So he quotes the lashon of the gemara, just like he does in many other places. He assumes that you are not just going to open a Shulchan Aruch and pasken the halacha based on a vague phrase. Obviously you would first go through the sugya, or at the very least read the Beit Yosef. See http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/paskening-from-the-shulchan-aruch-without-knowing-the-gemara-and-rishonim regarding this point.

How does your posek understand the normative psak of the Shulchan Aruch/Rema/Mishna Berura?

The reason I gave you a list of sources was to show that it is not “other minority shitos” but in fact the vast majority of rishonim and acharonim who (to varying degrees) don’t accept ?? ??? ??? literally.

From the Rishonim and Acharonim I’ve seen, it seems the vast majority do not accept ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????

in the simple, literal sense. (This does not mean that they totally reject drinking; see their comments for their exact positions.) For instance:

(links provided when available – not all of the sefarim are on hebrewbooks)

Tosafos

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=11&daf=7b&format=pdf

Rosh

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37957&st=&pgnum=474

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40708&st=&pgnum=14

Agudah

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9770&st=&pgnum=275&hilite=

Meiri

Sefer Ha’eshkol

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=31467&st=&pgnum=29&hilite=

Rambam

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/rambam.aspx?sefer=3&hilchos=21&perek=2&halocha=15&hilite=

Rokeach

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49371&st=&pgnum=113&hilite=

Ra’aviya

Ba’al Hamaor

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37957&st=&pgnum=513

Sefer Hame’oros

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=16144&st=&pgnum=11

Orchos Chaim

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40307&st=&pgnum=279&hilite=

Kol Bo

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=45043&st=&pgnum=102

Hagahos Maimonios

Maharil

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14721&st=&pgnum=118&hilite=

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1145&st=&pgnum=40

Ran

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37957&st=&pgnum=513

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=32293&st=&pgnum=13

Nemukei Yosef

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=16145&st=&pgnum=41

Leket Yosher

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49438&st=&pgnum=155&hilite=

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49438&st=&pgnum=156

Maharsha

Beit Yosef

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x2820

Rema in Darchei Moshe, Shulchan Aruch, and 2/3 explanations in Mechir Yayin

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x2821

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3075

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40161&st=&pgnum=78

Bach

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x2820

Yam Shel Shlomo

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40932&st=&pgnum=42&hilite=

R’ Yaakov Emden

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=22619&st=&pgnum=308&hilite=

(he specifically mentions people who are sick/weak)

R’ Tzvi Hirsch Levin

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=6380&st=&pgnum=176&hilite=

Levush

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9223&st=&pgnum=267

Taz

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3075

Magen Avraham

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3075

Pri Chadash

Chayei Adam

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9025&st=&pgnum=740

Kitzur Shulchan Aruch

Yad Ephraim

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3075

Pele Yoetz

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14116&st=&pgnum=89

Elya Rabba

Pri Megadim

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3200

Mishna Berura/Beiur Halacha

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14166&st=&pgnum=323

Aruch Hashulchan

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9102&st=&pgnum=473

Several of the Chachmas Manoach‘s explanations

Hagahos R’ Avraham Azulai

Gra

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3075

Korban Nesanel

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37957&st=&pgnum=474

Ba’er Heitev

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3075

Sha’arei Teshuva

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3075

I didn’t say that I don’t agree with it. I said that I agree with the part that you are happy, but I can’t know if your Jewishness is the cause of your happiness unless we have a theological discussion. (“Debate” was probably not the right word.) I wasn’t saying that we SHOULD have one (though if you want to, go ahead); I was just saying that I won’t be able to determine the cause of your happiness without having one.

popa:

While they might not be aligned with him, I don’t think you can prove it from “they would have done what you are advocating”, as I pointed out:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/2#post-532677

lesschumras:

Why do you assume they aren’t aware? Perhaps they hold that learning gemara is a bigger leap than starting Bais Yaakov and is unnecessary.

Apparently, my subtitle has reverted to the first one I had.

cozimjewish:

I definitely agree with the last three words, though we’d have to have a few theological debates in order for me to determine if I agree with the first two words as well.

It doesn’t count if I’m quoting someone. My only objection to emoticons is using them as my own words. Also see:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sem-and-security#post-534639

and

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sem-and-security/page/2#post-538772

I don’t think I usually leave out the emoticons when quoting; I think I leave them out if they serve no important purpose, or if I am deliberately attempting to make the quote mean something other than its original intended meaning.

I’m glad you’re not really apologizing.

Perhaps the summary writer got confused by:

Inside the ship is Twoflower, the Disc’s first tourist. He had recently spent some months exploring it and is now rapidly leaving it for reasons that are rather complicated but have to do with an attempt to escape from Krull.

Taken on its own, this sentence can easily lead one to believe that Twoflower is not from the Disc.

We know it’s not a Kohen or a Levi

What about Leviticus 4:3 which says:

??? ???????? ??????????? ??????? ?????????? ?????

Rambam Hilchos Melachim 12:2:

??? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??????

cozimjewish:

I’m not The Goq; I’m Patur Aval Assur.

Rambam Shemoneh Perakim Perek 5:

??? ?? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ????

Rambam Hilchos Teshuva 8:6:

??? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ????, ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???

My principal told us to apply to a bunch of seminaries to ensure that we get accepted somewhere. So I applied to BJJ, Mesoras Rochel, B’nos Sarah, Machon Ra’aya, B’nos Chava, and Michlala. The problem is that I got accepted to every single one and now I can’t decide which one to go to. And I’m afraid that no matter where I go I might get Popa as a roommate. But if I don’t go then I won’t be able to get a shidduch. Unless I use Popa’s shidduch service. But Popa might not provide services to someone who was afraid of being Popa’s roommate.

So I decided to check out Sam2’s (in)famous shul this past Shabbos. I got there right before Zachor and I saw a yeshiva guy and a modern girl by the bimah vociferously arguing about something. The girl was supposed to be the one to lain Zachor but the boy was claiming that it’s assur for a girl to lain. The girl responded by quoting Megilla 23a:

?”? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????

To which the guy said that no one actually holds l’maaseh that a woman can read the Torah. So the girl said “The Netiv Moshe on p. 24 in footnote 112 writes: ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????.”

The guy said that we obviously don’t pasken like the Netiv Moshe, but he couldn’t convince her, so then he came from a different angle. He told her that there’s a shitah that women are patur from Zachor and therefore she can’t be motzi the men, thus she must let him read it. She responded that aderabba, that’s the reason why she has to read it and he can’t. The guy apparently thought she was joking so she went to the shelf and got a Sefer Hachinuch and opened it to Mitzvah 603 and read aloud:

?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?????

She then explained:

“In my circles women serve in the army, so we are now obligated in Zachor as well. You’re a yeshiva guy so you are patur from the army; mimayla you are patur from Zachor as well. Therefore, I can be motzi you but you can’t be motzi me.”

Finally someone suggested that they just ask the Rabbi. But the shul had no Rabbi. Meanwhile some Teimani dude sauntered over and said “This argument is pointless. Neither of you can be motzi anyone because you ashkenazim don’t know how to pronounce Hebrew words.” So we had a Teimani Zachor.

Then I realized why Sam keeps on coming back to this shul. The entertainment is awesome.

Dorothy actually left the ir miklat twice. She left at the end, but she also left before that to kill the Wicked Witch of the West.

So we can say that she held like the Cheshek Shlomo that I quoted earlier, ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ?”? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? and leaving to kill the witch was obviously in the category of ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?? ????? (though according to the Cheshek Shlomo even stam ????? ????? would suffice). And that is why she had to return to the Emerald City

afterwards – ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????. And she apparently held like Moderator 80 that the wizard leaving was akin to dying, hence she was then allowed to leave. This also very nicely answers the Scarecrow’s kashya of why the Good Witch didn’t tell Dorothy how to get home via the Ruby Slippers the first time they met (without having to resort to the witch’s super dochek answer) – Dorothy wasn’t yet allowed to leave.