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Jent,
1) Can you please cite one thing that renders me an apikorus?
2) Can you please show me where I did not display ahavas yisroel unless I was defending somebody who was attacked by a kannai?
3) Regarding the Talibanization issue, here is a chakira for you. Do you hold that A) the methods of the Taliban of physically forcing their religious views on other people via beatings and the like, are completely correct, and that wearing burkas is a praiseworthy halacha or kiyum in tznius, except that by an accident of birth they were simply born into the wrong religion. Had they been born Jewish, and done exactly the same things they do now, they would be tzaddikim gemurim; or do you hold B) that their methods are completely unacceptable, because yiddishkeit is a religion of darchei noam and their use of force to promote their views of tznius means that they are reshaim? Which is it Jent A) or B)? Please explain in detail.
Bogen, can you please cite your source in 21,7? Sorry, but Sh”O mentions yeshainim bkiruv basar as a problem for a gedolah, but not one word about the issue at hand.
I never said the Sh”O is not applicable. The Sh”O only said it was recommended that women not go outside, but there is no halacha, only a recommendation, just as he recommeds one use bathroom in morning before going away. If there was an issur, 99% of all chareidi women would be in violation of a halacha, which is not possible, as pok chazi mai ama dvar.
Bogen, you worship a very angry g-d. His name is Allah.
The Jewish G-d is an Av Harachaman.
A beautiful minhag that parents do for their daughters you need to denigrate based on zero sources? As Jent says, it is only be because the sefarim say lav hakol bkiin bkrovav, not everybody knows one’s relatives, and they might suspect him. Here everynody knows these are the fathers.
Not only are you not sticking up for the Torah, you are turning people off by the boatload.
Hi intellegent. Best advice is to go to bed earlier. Even if you are in the middle of something important, it is better to get the extra sleep, and have a better day the whole next day. Sacrifice one hour for an extra 16 good hours tomorrow.
Ben Franklin was right, that early to bed and early to rise makes one healthy wealthy and wise. Even if it is the same amount of hours, but when you go to bed early, you sleep better because you are not as afraid of oversleeping and missing something important, and then naturally you will get up earlier, and be on time and not so rushed, and more refreshed.
I also need this mussar, but I know from experience that late nights are very bad for general productivity.
Joseph, why not research the matter of the wars of the State of Israel before making gradiose proclamations that are not backed up. You may want to start with Rabbi J.D. Bleich’s Contemporary Halakhic Problems, vols. 1 and 2, who cites numerous sources that the wars were justified. I don’t think he is a knitted-yarmulka Zionist, just a big Talmid Chacham.
Saythatagain, you make some good and valid points. This is how I would respond:
It is true that their is a mailah in being machmir. Chazal say that the RBSH is nosei ponim lyisroel because although he said you must eat a kdei sviah to have to bench, they are medakdek down to a kzayis or kbeyah.
Nevertheless, one must always balance the positive versus the negative. Everything has a tradeoff. There is a story of Reb Chaim Brisker making kiddush in shul on Yom Kippur because of a fear of the plague. When they asked him why he was meikil on YK, he said, adrabah, I am machmir on pikuach nefesh.
Today we have lost 90% of all Jews to yiddishkeit. Our retention rate is very poor. If we add chumrahs today, we run the risk of losing even more. The loshon in the shulchan oruch that a women should be margil herslef not to go out too much is comparable to the loshon in shulchan oruch that a person should be margil himself to use the bathroom in the morning, so he won’t have to find one at night. This is an eitzah tova, but clearly not a halacha. In those days, they had no bathrooms in the home, and the closest one could have been many blocks away. What a pain to have to go out late at night on a long walk. In our times, while it is still good advice, clearly it is much less critical then it was back then. So times do change, and we must do what is best for our situation.
Today, since women’s income is necesary for many homes to subsist, it would be near impossible to adopt a practice of women staying home. ALso, in those days in a small shtetl, everything was probably close by. Today, the supermarket may be a few miles, and you can’t just walk, so you need to drive and make an outing out of it. Life has changed. It is not halacha which has changed, the situation has changed. If we told women to stay home, then people may not be able to afford tuition, and have to send to public school.
Life is one big shikul hadaas. If we are too machmir on one inyan, we may entirely blow another more important inyan. I doubt any posek would say it is better to send kids to public school than for a wife to earn money towards tuition. This is why we say times have changed. We have a different set of circumstances which requires different emphasis. There are pluses and minuses in everything. If I spend too much on my esrog, I may not have anything for a yontof meal, and have to avoid inviting guests and forego that mitzvah, which may be more important.
My personal opinion is we need to stress ahavas yisroel above all else these days. One must pick and choose very carefully what mitzvos to emphasize and what to deemphasize at any given time, since it is impossible to be mekayem every one in the best possible way. That is simply the metzius. I previously gave another example if you see an old lady struggling with packages when you are on the way to shul, and you can only do one of these mitzvos, which should you do? You will not have time to do both, as you will miss the minyan if you help the lady, and vice versa.
Mariner, while I agree with everything you say, I think you were a bit too harsh on Joseph. I have trouble understanding his thought process, as well, since when I expect a long post, he often gives a very short one, and other times vice versa. Nevertheless, he is a sincere yid with a very different hashkafa than mine. However, we should all refrain from name calling. I think your terminology was too harsh.
Joseph, we have shifted into this digression in response to my question which you never answered. I asked can you show me any mekor that women must dress ugly when they go out and cannot look attractive in public. I asked about the chiyuv to buy them a new dress for yontof, and how the gemara discusses their jewelry in rehsus harabaim on Shabbos. You then changed the subject to saying they are not allowed to go out at all. Please get back to my original question about whether women are supposed to have two sets of clothes; an ugly set for outside, and a pretty set for inside.
Joseph, what you are saying is wrong and a chillul hashem. We have a road map which teaches us how to act, called the Torah. The Torah values anivus, as our Avos said Anochi tolaas vlo ish (I am a worm, and not a man), and Anochi afar vaefer (I am dirt and ashes). The second we do not act like our road map calls for and like our avos did, and if we become gaivadig, then neveilah tova heimenu. What you are saying is pure arrogance and racism. All the nations believe that their religion makes them better than everybody else. The chiddush of Judaism is that we believe that any fine non-Jew can become as holy as the kohen gadol, as the Rambam says.
Some people only see the good; and some people only see the bad.
Joseph, I am glad to see you finally changed your views of the Zionists.
Zalman, my post was sent before yours appeared hours later.
But nevertheless, I will break it to you gently, depite all your sources, it is not at all clear that it is a halacha, rather than a hanhaga tova. They all say it is the derech of a woman not to go out much, etc., but not any clear issur. It is a matter of judgment.
Your quote that the SHulchan Oruch E”H 73 says Kol Kevudah is actually a quote from Hagahos R. Zalman. The mechaber doesn’t say it, nor does the Rama. The Rama says Isha lo sargil atzma laztzeis harbeh. She should not get into the habit of going out a lot (or excessively) she’ain yofi l’isha ella laishev bzavyos beisa. It is the beauty of a woman to stay in the confines of her home. This is a matter of beauty, not any clear cut prohibition. If it were, no women would be allowed to work, yet ruba dreuba of all chareidi kollel wives work a whole day.
Sorry, you did a lot of beautiful research, but did not succeed in any kind of a proof. (There is none, so don’t soend any more time looking.)
Don’t have time to check now, but believe kol kevudah is a hanhaga tova, but not a halacha. I think the gemara even applies it to non-Jews, and since non-Jewish women did not usually go out, there was no taynah on the bnos amon and moav why they did not greet the yidden with food and water, so as a result we have the halacha of amon vlo amonis. Please check before quoting me on this.
Zalman, do you think your language is permissible in halacha? Why not become a kanai in the ikar which is menschlachkeit.
Jewel, Welcome to the fold. All you need to know is that all of Judaism is merely about loving one’s fellow man as oneself. All other things are secondary details. This is what Hillel taught us in Talmud Shabbos p. 31.
Do not get sidetracked by trying to talk the same way as X Y or Z, or copy the mannerisms of so and so, thinking there is any importance to it. There is not. Gradually you will learn the details of the mitzvos. Your relationship is directly with G-d. You need no intermediaries.
Best wishes.
MdLevine, I reread the article, and found the phrases you mention which were indeed a bit stronger than I remembered the tone to be, but still totally disagree with you. Rav Belsky initiated an attack on Chabad saying they deify the Rebbe. A representative of Chabad with kids in their schools responds by saying that he has never encountered such a thing in any Chabad institution. If that is true, he has every right to say that it is sheker, and by implication, motzee shem ra. I am totally confused why you think a person has no right to defend himself or his movement against an accusation that he believes is totally false. Especially, since the movement was headed by someone who was at least as big a godol as Rav Belsky.
If Rav Belsky accused you of stealing a thousand dollars from your shul, I guarantee you would use the same words in your defense. “I never did such a thing, the evidence is totally false, whoever told you that is being motzee shem ra on me, etc. etc. etc.” And you would have every right to do so.
I can see your point about what is the proper venue for his complaint, but Rav Belsky made a public accusation, and therefore the writer felt a need for a public defense. Why he chose YW instead of the original publication I don’t know, and possibly he should have and maybe did try to contact Rav Belsky directly. Nevertheless, a public accusation certainly invites a public defense.
MDlevine, having reread the original letter now, the letter writer expresses the greatest possible derech eretz to Rav Belsky. All he does is defend chabad which is the chinuch and hadracha he received from his own Godol, the Rebbe ZT”L. What in the world is wrong with what he wrote? Halevai others who disagree with some position on any other matter would write with such derech eretz and respect as the shliach did. He had every right to do so. What is the hava amina that his own rebbe was less of a godol than Rav Belsky?
MDLevine, when you say that the original letter writer was not allowed to call into question the opinion of a gadol batorah, are you referring to the chabad shliach who wrote the letter? Are you saying that the chabad shliach has no right to follow his own godol and Rov, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, and must instead listen to Rabbi Belsky who disagrees with Chabad??? Are you saying that the shliach had no right to defend his viewpoint from Rabbi Belsky’s attack? Did the shliach attack Rabbi Belsky or his haskafah in any way? All he did was to defend the good work of chabad from R. Belsky’s attack. What in the world is wrong with that? You can’t be serious, can you?
Teenager, the fact that you come here means that you still feel a strong connection to Judaism and the friendship of other Jews (even though everybody fights here all the time like brothers and sisters do). That is a positive thing. You must know that in the goyishe world, there is not this same feeling of closeness, and sometimes the taunting gets very cruel, much worse than here even where the worst that can happen is that people call each other an apikores.
Therefore, there is still much hope for you to return. In addition, when you think about it, there can’t really be much of an attraction for drugs, because people who never used them don’t ever miss them, and don’t even know what the attraction is. When we are without food on the other hand, we all feel real hunger pains. All the drugs do is to fry your brain. It will make it much harder for you to function in the future, and will be a bad stain on your record for future jobs, etc. It is for your own good that people tell you to stay clean. It has nothing to do with yiddishkeit (except that yiddishkeit is really all about living the happiest and healthiest way). I think that deep down you really don’t feel so happy about your lifestyle, and even though yiddishkeit appears very difficult and a big drag, for some mysterious reason, it makes us happier, despite all the zillions of difficult rules. Why not just keep a few of the rules, and see how it goes.
Joseph, can you bring any mekor that women had two sets of clothes, one for inside the house, and the other for the outside. Have you ever seen a minhag where when the woman comes home, she immediately changes into something much nicer than what she was wearing all day? I am not familiar, but please tell me if this is true.
When the gemara says that before yontof one is supposed to get his wife a nice dress, is that only for in the house and she is not allowed to wear it outside? Also, why does gemara talk about all the jewelry women had and how they were likely to take it off to show their friends in the reshus harabim, if they should not have been wearing it in the reshus harabim in the first place?
Do you really believe women must dress ugly when they go out?
Average means to get on YW and fight with everybody else there.
Normal also means to get on YW and fight with everybody else there.
Rabbi Dr. Norman Lamm has a nice diyuk in a Rashi in his book Faith and Doubt, I believe. In gemara Shabbos 31a about the geirim who came to Hillel, Rashi D”H Gaiyreh says shelo haya kofer batorah shb’al peh, ella shelo haya maamin shehi mipi hagvurah. We see from this that having some doubts does not make one an apikores or kofer. If the Rebbe will patiently listen and try his best to explain, then maybe the child will eventually develop a strong emunah.
Intellegent, Sorry but you have not defined bright colors. White is the brightest of all. Are you saying it is assur for kallahs to wear white dresses any more? Is this a new halacha or minhag in the Jewish marriage ceremony now?
Since you can’t define it, better not to and leave it to people’s good tastes, rather than legislating some brand new arbitrary guidelines that somebody just made up on the spot and calling it yiddishkeit.
There is no halacha against looking nice or attractive (even niddos are obligated to do so), and the downside is that if frum women are forced to look shlumpy, then their husbands may look elsewhere and cause shalom bayis problems, as gemara says over and over shelo tisganeh al baalah.
In my house we call it a snoop.
Note the gemara says that the woman performs certain serveices for her husband, but does not mention what happens if she doesn’t. We know there is a klal takinu mezonoseha tachas maiseh yadeha (outside work). If these things are considered maiseh yadeha although they are internal work, then the Rayvad makes a lot of sense. SInce she is reneging on the deal, we decrease her mezonos accordingly.
However, the source for the Rambam is shver. (Have not looked up the nosei keilim.) The mechaber or rama does bring somewhere that a woman who curses her husband’s parents can be hit. It seems that this is because she would be considered some kind of moredes. Maybe that would apply here as well, because of moredes. (I don’t know what the mechaber’s source is there either, since normally a moredes is just forced to get divorced, but is not given any corporal punishment.) I haven’t looked inside, so don’t rely on this. Need to check.
Bogen, you must have totally misunderstood me. I was giving a sarcastic response to a poster here who said that the Zionists were Nazi collaborators. I said that makes as much sense as saying that 9/11 was caused by the USA, (as some kooks believe). I asked rhetorically whether the pure and holy Merkaz boys who were clearly zionists are also nazi collaborators, by that definition. I also asked whether the wonderful Sderot boys who are rebuiling and giving chizuk to a depressed and frightened town are also nazi collaborators, since they are zionists, as well.
I was pointing out how ludicrous it is to say that zionists were in cahoots with the nazis.
It seems more than one person here interpreted my words totally the opposite of their intended sarcastic meaning. I thought they were clear, but will try to double-check next time. Again, I do not believe that zionists are nazi collaborators, and think that is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.
Was zocheh to be at the Yankees-Red Sox game Thurs 8/28 between these gedolei oilam. The most amazing thing is that Kevin Youkilis, the Red Sox first-baseman and a proud yid, has become so frum that he wears a hat the entire time. He mamash doesn’t walk four amos with an uncovered head. He sets an example for the entire generation.
Doc, my son has not yet started high school. I send him to a chareidi yeshiva because yiras shomayim and stress on learning is essential for the younger years. I insist that he wear a hat altz minhag hamakom.
However, I am ever-present to filter any negativity that he might hear against any other yidden. That includes Zionists, YU, Chabad, Hesder or whatever. The other day we were at a chasuna, and had the privilege to see Rav Mordechai Willig from YU. I took my son over and showed him how he is an ehrlich talmid chochom muvhak, surely a godol by today’s standards, and behold, he talks and acts as refined as any other talmid chochom (but without any sinas chinam). I tried to get my son to speak in learning with him about anything he may have learned.
It confuses me terribly that I just received a tefillah for shmiras haloshon from the Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation, and it says (my translation from memory): I will resolve not to speak loshon hora against any individual, and certainly not the klal, or any part thereof. Yet unfortunately, you tell me, is this actually followed by the chareidi world as a whole? Please be honest, as I would really like to know.
But the truth is that there are many ehrlich chareidim who spend their days learning and doing chesed, and do not get involved in all these politics. It is really only a minority here who are extremely loud, that give the impression that all chareidim are crude extremists. As I had opportunity to hear from a few of my close chareidi friends recently, that the views expressed here do not represent chareidim as a whole. Most are sweet aidele anavim who sincerely want to make the world a better place through the zchus of their learning, and are not interested in knocking everything and anything that crosses their path. Unfortunately it is a few shady characters that get into the the news and make all the rest look bad.
Mariner, I was not saying the techeles people are wrong. I was trying to present some of the proofs both pro and con. The OU book has teshuvas from both camps, and they are so well-reasoned on both sides, that it is hard to be machria. It is really something you can sink your teeth into. Each tries to answer the kashyas of the other. The shakla vtarya is mamash geshmak.
Zalman, do you also believe the US was complicit in 9/11? Were the Merkaz boys HY”D complicit with Nazism, as well? What about the Hesder boys in Sderot, are they also Nazis?
You and the others here are nebach torturing yourselves to grasp at any straw to find fault with the State of Israel. It is so sad that your whole chiyus comes from a negative hashkafa and you can’t allow yourself the satisfaction of being modeh that it is the most wonderful thing that we have the state. I believe now, that most Chareidim are gradually moving over to that viewpoint, as well.
Keep on looking at everyting with an ayin ra. This is what the RBSH wants. He gets great nachas listening to you knock the state, despite the fact that it has enabled Torah learning on a scale not seen in hundreds of years.
The only people who think Israel is a murderous regime are Arabs and leftists. If this is the company you want to keep, so be it.
BTW, one very strong rayah the pro-techeiles camp has is that the fact that the gemara goes to great lengths to teach us how to differentiate between the plant dye and the real techeiles, but never warns us of another fraudulent animal dye means that there is no other such animal. Otherwise, why did the gemara not give simanim as to how to differentiate the two animal dyes, the fraudulent and the real techeiles, just as it gave simanim on how to differentiate the plant and animal dyes? The pro-techeiles camp therefore says that we must have the real thing, since there is only one possible animal that produces a blue dye.
At any rate, because of the kashyas listed in my previous post by the anti-techeiles group, Rav Perr is opposed to the use of the current mollusk dye because he feels it will then take on the status of a mesorah, when it is still a safek, and in the future, people may come to rely on the mesorah, although it hasn’t be proven 100%.
I highly recommed getting a copy of the OU sourcebook. The topic is fascinating.
For a very informative discussion, both pro and con, you should get a copy of the OU’s book, ASK (forgot what it stands for, volume 2). They have periodic conferences and compile source material.
It is a fascinating topic. The gemrara mentinos kala ilan as a fake dye that some used to sell instead of the real techeiles. The gemara gives a set of steps to differentiate the two by mixing various herbs and materials. If color fades, it is not techeles.
However, one of the big problems is that kala ilan which is indigo, is chemically identical to the indigo produced by the mollusk that is thought by the pro-techeles people to be the chilazon, after the processing they prescribe. So how could two identical dyes test differently?
Second problem is that the gemara says chilazon is a dag (fish), yet mollusks are called shavlul in mishnaic language. (Rav Perr’s kashya.)
Third problem is that this mollusk was commonly used to dye purple with a different process for many years up till recently, so how could such a common and well-known creature have been totally lost from our mesorah.
Fourth problem is that gemara talks about potzea chilazon being chayav on Shabbos. I forget the issue here, but something to do with how long they survive after the extraction process.
Also one final issue that it is supposed to appear once in seventy years, but the current one may not have such a cycle.
One halachic side-issue is whether one is mechuyav to do something which will still leave him in the same safek as when he began (not knowing if he has been mekayem techeles). Here Rav Shechter has a very strong rayah on some analogous case, where we do it anyway, even though we can’t be sure if we are doing it right. Don’t remember.
The whole topic is one of the most interesting I have ever studied at the time, just based on the OU book alone.
The worst thing is for some hotheads to politicize a purely halachic debate as if one’s camp has anything to do with this.
The worst thing is
Having been away for a while, I haven’t had time to read all these posts, but find the whole topic a bit silly.
Who cares about this guy Kastner and what he did or did not do? How in the world does that have anything to do with the merits of Zionism as a whole? How does it make me a better person or help me with my avodas hashem or limud Torah to track down 50-year-old testimony about somebody named Kastner. What could be more useless, except to a historian who needs this knowledge for some constructive purpose.
I guess this is a very holy precept. If it is so holy, how about adding it to kiddush.
Yom Hashishi, down with Kastner, vayechulu hashomayim vhaaretz vchol tzvaam, Kastner was a horrible guy, vayechal elokim bayom hashvii melachto asher asah, Kastner was a despicable man…
See how much holier my kiddush has become now.
The point is, what in the world does one guy named Kastner have to do with the Zionist enterprise as a whole? The accomplishments of the State of Israel and the quality of life, the furthering of Torah and Tefilah, the access to the mkomos hakedoshim, the binyan haaretz, the kibutz golyos, the scientific innovations, the fact that its citiziens are happy, the flowering of the desolate land (ein lcha ketz megulah mizeh) are nothing short of the biggest miracle in the last 2000 years. A downtrodden nation who lost almost everything in the holocaust was picked up by the RBSH and shown that he has not forsaken us, and allowed us to go back home to the land of the avos hakedoshim.
What one guy named Kastner did or did not do, which we will never know anyway, since people in the war often did not even know what happened to their own family members, let alone strangers like Kastner, is totally irrelevant to any discussion of the merits of the State of Israel.
Does the fact that some chareidim have been child molesters mean that all chareidim are treif? Should we get rabbonim to close all the yeshivas, since some of these guys may have learned in one?
Let’s stop already with this silly nonsense, as if anything hinges on what one man did or did not do in the middle of a terrible war and time of chaos.
Shmira halashon is very important unless you want to knock somebody not in your own group. Then loshon hora becomes the biggest mitzva, and you are a big tzaddik. The bigger the fight you make, the bigger the tzaddik. The RBSH is very proud of you.
Charlie Brown, I am not familiar with any special psak about Lubavitchers and Sukkah or Shalosh Seudos. I will try to ask a Lubavitcher directly. (BTW, doesn’t the reason you propose sound eerily like the reason the yeshivishe velt didn’t encourage the establishment of the State of Israel, because it was too holy.)
Matisyohu, your words insulting Norman Lamm are totally out of place. What ever happened to the Mishnah of Hamevazeh Talmidei Chachamim in Chelek? Why do you think you have a heter to insult a big Talmid Chochom who has semicha from one of the gedolei hador(Reb Yoshe Ber), just because you are from a different hashkafah? What is your hava amina that the gedolim from your circles are bigger than gedolim from other circles? WHy does giving respect to gedolim only apply to the ones who you hand pick, and not to others. Why do we not all have the right to hand pick gedolim and insult the ones we disagree?
This, my friend, is why we are still in golus. It is not like I made it up, it is in the gemara and called sinas chinom. The only aveirah of Rabbi Lamm and YU is that they teach secular knowledge. Sorry, but there is no halachic basis for any issur on learning secular knowledge. It is simply a frum (and meaningless) thing to knock it. Did you know that the Mishnah Brura paskens one can use a telescope on Shabbos to learn the chochma of astronomy? The gemara in Sanhedrin says one needed to know 70 languages to be appointed to Sanhedrin. The Rambam says that anything proven scientifically byond a doubt has the halachic status of divrei neviim.
The fact is that in the 20th century the world advanced, and one needs advanced secular knowledge to function and make a parnasa. I have much trouble and indeed it has affected my emunas chachamim in understanding the vehement opposition to secular knowledge by the gedolim of this generation. I think it is a major mistake, and is causing kids to go off the derech because of the vacuum. Mishnah in Kesuvos says even a wealthy wife with a gazillion servants still needs to do some work, or she will turn to immoral activities. Why did the mishnah not say she should join a tehillim group, or learn tanach with all her free time? The answer is that the pressure of work and deadlines, etc. in the real world does a person a lot of good in keeping him focused.
It is a new thing that we make fun of secular studies, and try to turn back the clock to the time we all rode on horses. I personally think the gedolim have made a huge mistake in judging the nature of this century by screaming aganst college. In Israel they scream against secualr studies past 8th grade! Yet I will never insult them. I have strong questions, but I treat them with derech eretz, and try my hardest to be dan them lchaf zchus and understand a rationale for what they say. I will be going to speak with my Rebbeim one of whom is mishpacha of Reb SHmuel Kamenetsky, and the oher is Talmid muvhak of Reb Leizer Silber and mechaber of 11 sefarim on shas to try to understand what to make of this sad situation. I personally can’t make heads or tails, and it seems so obvious that the current system is totally messed up. Why do I get letters from chareidi yungerleit asking for tzedaka which are signed by the very same rabbonim who assur college and prevent these people from making parnasa in the first place? Yet the biggest mitzvah is to insult YU because they teach secular studies.
Smartgal, the guy should of course pay, but right after the date he should send an itemized bill to the shver, to get reimbursed, since anyway the shver will be paying for everything happily ever after.
Bored, Bogen, Klmn, I am really sorry, but in my opinion, one who adds nonexistent issurim is just as bad as one who violates existing ones. Kol hamosif gorea. When you make yiddishkeit more difficult than it already is, you force kids off the derech. They say we can’t possibly keep all of this, so we will chuck the whole thing out the window. You may keep personal chumros yourself, but don’t ever dare insist that the masses have to follow them, or you will destroy much more than you will build.
CharlieBrown, as far as I remember, the not sleeping in the sukkah was even mentioned in the MB as being due to either too cold in those areas (teishvu k’ein taduru), or because a husband should be with his wife, and it is not tzniusdik outdoors (also teishvu k’ein taduru).
Not aware of any shalosh seudos psak. I am not a Lubavitcher, but will ask maybe they hold you can fulfill it with a bottle of schnaps. Just kidding.
Joseph, your kashya of why not the Baal Hatanya also bothered me, and why not any of many other gedolim who have long passed away. I am not endorsing their position, I am just being melamed zchus. I feel bad that they have lost such a great person, and have been having a very hard time getting over it. One can only feel bad for them. It is not something to insult them for. They do much good in the world.
UJM, not only are your completely wrong about opening a door and the like, but you make a chillul hashem in public when you talk with the tone of voice you do about AMerican customs. Anybody, frum or non-frum or not even Jewish can be reading this site. The kindness and customs of the USA are why you are in yeshiva. The Russians and Nazis weren’t so kind. Have a little hakaras hatov.
Please look up the gemara in Yuma 86 hechi domi chilul hashem, and see that when one doesn’t speak bnachas im habriyos, that is the greatest chillul hashem even if he is a great talmid chochiom. Talk with derech eretz about this wonderful country and the outstanding menschalchkeit and kindness that is the norm in the USA.
Second, as far as halacha, you are also totally wrong. The issur of walking behind a woman is because of histaklus. But on a date, histaklus is permitted (within reason), as the shulcham oruch says it is permitted to look over a woman to see if you find her suitable to marry. That is the whole point of a date, so if you are behind her for a minute to walk her to the door and protect her from any intruders, it is totally mutar. Even if it’s not a date, but just giving a ride to a stranger or a friend of your children, you should walk to the door.
Third, as far a chivalry is concerned, whatever happened to the gemara mechabda yoser migufo??? If you don’t like a gemara you cross it out with a big black magic marker?
Fourth, the gemara in kiddushin tells us that a certain amora didn’t want his mother to walk on rocky or hard ground, so he had her walk the whole way on his hands. Why would the kovod to a wife be different?
Fifth, The Meiri in Bava Kamma says that the reason whay many of the halachos of ovdei kochavim don’t apply today is because the other religions have nimusim (manners). There is no shame in learning from the manners of other cultures.
Sixth, what about the gemara in Brachos that certain tannaim said, oheiv ani es hamidayim, and oheiv ani es hkaldiyim (I recall), because they have certain nice practices,
Seventh, what about gemara that says we learn kibuid av vaem from dama ben nesina, an idol worshipper?
When the practice of a country in certain inyanim is positive, we appreciate it and imitate it and praise them for it. This is the way of chazal.
The ikar of Torah is menschlachkeit. You seem to use the Torah as a vehicle to validate your all-consuming anger. I believe you need to work out your issues, as they have nothing to do with the religion.
I can only try, the laima ktannai is not an insult, it is only a question as to why they didn’t simply say I hold like tanna A or tanna B, instead of making it seem like a new machlokes. But nevertheless, amoraim never argued on tannaim, because of niskatnu hadoros.
But what I find incredulous is, what in the world is your hava amina that the Rebbe was not as great as any of the other gedolim of his time or our time? Are you saying Rabbi Silberberg should not have followed his rebbe and godol, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, because others disagree? What is your hava amina?
Finally, I am sad to write that the psak from Bnei Brak was worse than shidduchim. When the Rebbe’s wife passed away, a psak was issued that nobody is allowed to be menachem avel to the Rebbe. Thankfully, Rav Pam and others were wise enough to come anyway, as a yid was in tzara.
Suraschier, Whereas your list is a very beautiful and meaningful set of guidelines, a valid question is whether it is the same as the Torah that Moshe gave us. Because there is a halacha that a slit above the knee is a problem, you have decided that a slit below the knee is also a problem. Because there is possibly an inyan that red color is a problem, you have decided that all bright colors are a problem. (BTW red may possibly be some sort of gnai for men, also. See Rambam hilchos tefillin who says that the back of the retzuos can be any color, but red is not recommended, since if it reverses, people will see the red and it is a gnai. However, I am puzzled by the fact that in Anim Zmiros [which the yeshivish don’t say] it says that the RBSH’s clothes are red.)
Let me ask you, is white also a problem? White is the brightest of all colors, as can be easily measured by a reflectometer.
Maybe since the Torah forbid pig, cow is also assur. They are both 4-legged animals. Maybe since wool and linen together are forbidden, wool alone should also be forbidden. The Torah doesn’t seem to like wool that much. But the way we pasken is according to the Torah that we have, not according to our own imagination.
Chazal were very careful not to add issurim which make things extra hard on people. One amora said that if the prices don’t come down, he will pasken that the hadas shoteh is ok (not meshulash).
You are totally allowed to wear a burka, and there is one type which has special mesh so even the eyes can’t be seen. But you cannot make up a halacha that all women are required to do so. The Torah did not require it. Nevertheless, there is a famous frum family that does wear burkas–their name is Berkowits.
Thinkfact, you need to look up the gemara in chelek which appears to allow for the possibility that Daniel could be moshiach, although he was already deceased at the time.
But the main difference is that Paul changed the religion totally, by abolishing all the mitzvos except for a few. (No kashrus, Yom kippur, shabbos, shatnez, sitting in a sukkah, etc.).
The Rebbe ZTL did not change anything, and tirelessly worked to further the observance of Torah and mitzvos his whole life.
UJM, Please provide sources that
1) Bright-colored clothing is not permitted.
2) Skirts may not have a slit even if below the knee.
3) Unmarried women’s hair must be short or tied back.
4) Makeup and perfume is intended to beautify a wife for her husband, beyond this it should be used scarcely if at all.
Also, please explain the gemara that says a father is mechuyav to buy his daughter clothing and accessories that will make everybody jump on her. (Marry her right away.)
Nameless, it may be just as well, since I have heard of times where it fell apart on the phone over narsihkeit, and they never even went out at all. Better they should at least meet so nobody is hurt even before it starts.
UJM, don’t take my word for it, look up Aroch Hashulchan OC 91. What is inetersting is that AHSH says that the guideline is how you would walk in the street, not how you would dress for an odom chashuv like MB. I wonder how the diference is explained.
UJM, a shanda, you mean to say you actually ride in a car with a girl without a mechitzah? Where did you grow up? Don’t you know you must have a mechitzah plus she must ride at least two rows behind you. You need a minivan or an SUV for a date. What is the world coming to? This is how yeshiva boys act?
UJM, you need some smiling lessons. Is there a smiling school near you?
Shindy, what you say is true. I believe there are two separate diseases called off the derech. In the yeshivishe world, it is caused by either assuring the mutar, or hypocracy. In the modern world it is caused by matiring the assur, and hefkeirus, i.e., free rein of TV, movies, and internet.
This is a symptom of the torn world we live in. There needs to be one standard that we all agree on. I have said countless times, the modern will never give up their movies if you tell then that college is also asur as well and you are supposed to hate the state of Israel. They look at you as being from another planet, and will not listen even when you are right (about movies).
While I will get hit for this, I believe that for the sake of kids who are off-the-derech, the klal must be prepared to make some major sacrifices. We must be prepared to jettison anything which is not based in halacha. That includes beaver hats, long black robes, white stockings, black and white clothes and black hats. How can you expect a cool, with-it American kid to want be part of a religion where you must dress like a freak? And the truth is our religion doesn’t require it. I believe the maamar of lo shinu es malbusham means they dressed bkovodig in whatever was the standard of that country. The gemara in A”Z says Rabban Gamliel was allowed to get a goyishe haircut because he interacted with govt (hitiru lsaper kumi). There was a need, and there was a heter.
The ikar of yiddishkeit is menschlachkeit, and becoming all you can be. We need to develop a yiddishkeit based on ahavas yisroel, rationality, and accomplishment in all areas. We must stop the voodoo-based approaches and cultlike behavior. We must let go of our overwhelming fear of secular knowledge and YU. We must stop the medieval superstitions regarding owning pets. Dogs show incredible affection to their owners and will play ball and anything else the owner likes. (Contrary to what someone posted here that dogs are the lowest animals, the medrash says because of lo yecheratz kelev lshono, they were given a tremendous reward.) We must show kids that they can develop into great people, each in their own way with their own talents, and be loved and respected for it.
We must stop talking about the terrible aveirah of loshon hora, and then proceed to viciously attack every other group “lshem shomayim”. Don’t you think kids see through this total hypocracy and sheker? We must intill a pride for Eretz Yisroel and Medinas Yisroel, and show the kids that they can be a part of building the state into a more frum and more advanced place. They can be a bridge between the frum and secular, and unite the klal. We must give them hope, and find and nurture their talents whether in art, science, literature, sports, or whatever.
Al t’hi baz lkchol adam. When we put others down, the kids see that the world is a place of hate. When we make fun of secular studies, the kids see that making fun is a proper thing, and will sure enough make fun of the Rebbes, as well. The gemara says they never appointed anyone to the Sanhedrin unless he was conversant in 70 languages. In some yeshivishe places, I am afraid to ask if they even know one language?
The world is open to them, and yiddishkeit makes their lives better. The Torah is called a tavlin. A tavlin imparts a pleasant taste into the food and makes it super-great, instead of bland. However, can you eat a tavlin directly? Try eating some salt or oregano or garlic tonite. When you tell a kid he can only learn and everything else is treif, that is the same thing. The Torah is a Toras Chaim, helps us with life. With Torah, we avoid the hurt feelings that public schools kids have because their classmates make fun of them, ruthlessly. We learn to speak with kindnesss to all. We avoid the problems of teen-pregnancy, and the messed up lives that result. Kashrus helps us curb our desires to do whatever feels good, even though it may be harmful. Fast days help us rememebr the poor. Niddah helps us remember those who need shidduchim, etc. etc. Every mitzvah has a positive. Let’s stop with the negative and the voodoo and the cult-stuff. Let’s start to focus on living normal productive lives filled with warmth and simcha and the greatst simcha which is accomplishment. Let us encourage them to cure cancer, or to become compassionate poskim, or whatever they dream.
The world is open to them, let’s not slam the door in their faces.
Just FYI, the Aroch Hashulchan says clearly based on gemara I quoted earlier about amora who took off jacket at eis tzara so as to appear more pashut, that the minhag yisroel is to daven without a jacket during week, but with a jacket on Shabbos, because we should not focus on tzaros on Shabbos. This is the minhag of a large portion of the klal today.
THere are many more categories, as heard from a friend. There is chareidi, yeshivish, heimish, modern from birth, modern heimeisher, heimish from birth, frum YU type. etc. etc. etc. By the heimisher we don’t do that. Nisht fun unzer. Not from our type.
This business about the X reminds me of the following story. A poor yid once had no job, and somebody got him an interview to be the Shamash in the shul in Minsk which at least paid a few pennies. He did well on the interview, until it was discovered that he was illiterate and couldn’t read or write a word.
He had no choice, but to move his family to the USA to try to find work. He opened up a businesss, and slowly it started to grow. After a while it became very successful. He became extremely wealthy. One day, he was at a bank, where he was working on a 10 million dollar business deal with the officers there. When it came time to sign, he wrote an X on the dotted line. When they asked him what it meant, he embarrassingly confessed that he couldn’t read or write.
The bank’s officer said in astonishment, if you’re so successful now, imagine what you could have become if you could read and write. The yid replied, if I could write, I’d be the shamash in Minsk.