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Chocolate.
I also like the sugar, but it’s just too much.
Next thread: Should single boys be allowed to walk in the street? It is quite dangerous spiritually.
(OTOH, the alternative may not be so safe – a friend of mine’s brother almost got run over, he was learning a sefer while walking.)
WIY: Just to clarify – I don’t want to be a stay at home mom, I’m a VERY high energy person and would be miserable. What I want is to be relaxed about parnasa – that I have the flexibility to work the number of hours I thrive on, and not be stressed that if I work less we will have parnasa issues.
This thread is making me crave a delicious, cream-filled, bakery doughnut…. yummm… all I have at home are Franczoz-type donuts, that will have to do.
No. I don’t drive, and I find that it is much more modest to ask for rides and taking public transportation. (/joking)
Also, it makes it easier to only leave the house once a month.
“WIY: why not look for a guy who has a degree who is serious about learning, that way you get everything you want (granted he may not be as externally “yeshivish” as a full learne)?”
The person said what they did because I do need a Talmid Chacham (at least someone who can say over divrei Torah easily), due to my family background and love of learning. OTOH I feel like I’m asking to much to ask for someone who is both a Talmid Chacham and has a parnasa. It’s important to me to be a good wife and mother, I don’t think I can do that if parnasa is on my shoulders.
charliehall: yes but they mean well, and there may be a kernel of truth to what he’s saying, or it wouldn’t bother me.
pba: Yes there are 🙂
oomis: thanks but when you are raised that the best way is to be in learning, it’s hard to face another option.
One shadchan, a family friend, tried to convince me that I shouldn’t consider a guy not in learning… that’s why I’m nervous of saying that.
Riddle: What is the longest sentence Moderator 80 can compose out of quadrisyllabic words, excluding nouns?
Hard work is more important that any degree. But the degree helps you get a foot in the door.
PS that is not the only thing, but comes after Yiras Shamayim and how he’ll treat me.
A little nervous about admitting this publicly, but…
I look specifically for a realistic form of financial support. I need the peace of mind to know I can stay home with my babies if I want to, and not worry about food on the table. Also, I don’t want to depend on charity from ANYONE – not my parents, not the gov’t, not a yeshiva (unless he’s working for them), not his parents. It just really bothers me to be a taker.
Am I the only one? I still have to figure out how to say this to shadchanim.
Myfriend: we can speculate why, but it was not because there was a shidduch crisis.
Depends how many generations were secular. For both my parents and many BTs, there was only one generation and despite being secular, both had kosher weddings. For someone from a long line of secular people, this is more of an issue.
mw13. Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding.
I still think that what the Gra said applies, but also see what you’re saying.
Thanks for posting the quote, and thanks everyone for your interpretations – this is a great topic
apushetayid: I’m sorry – I absolutely did NOT intend to imply that and actually know a number of extremely frum MO people. (right-wing YU girls who went to BYs)
I certainly hope that anyone who would think that I implied MO are not frum, would be bothered, and apologize if it sounded like that.
What I meant was, yeshivish/ chassidish women don’t generally wear hats. It’s generally an MO thing. So I am not aware of this problem since I am yeshivish and live in a yeshivish community. I don’t see anyone wearing hats and if they do wear hats they seem to be covered.
ckbshl: I see what she’s saying about maturity – there’s definitely an element of truth there. An immature girl will not have worked on her middos. While a mature girl may not be perfect, she generally has a strong awareness of priorities and has worked on herself. Most girls BH are mature by the time they enter shidduchim.
As for me… I look for middos, especially yiras Hashem, responsibility, love of work, a certain amount of simchas hachayim (basically, so we can have a happy home), and getting along with people.
(semi-jokingly)
In real life, I just look at yiras shamayim and how he will treat me. That sounds really selfish, but that’s the truth.
Mosherose: for your intents and purposes, please consider me an apikores and don’t post on any of my threads. Thank you.
HOT LIQUIDS. Soup, tea, milk, whatever you have.
Also, there is over the counter cold medication.
Feel better!!
mw13: How do you see that? The other wife wasn’t married for beauty. it shows that polygamy was first misused, since it easily lends itself to misuse, but it was found to be useful.
I was just noting who was the first polygamist. The GRA says that the first time something is mentioned in the Torah, it is in order to teach us something about the way it is viewed in the entire rest of the Torah.
soright: You’re right. I am not opposed to it in theory. I am opposed to it being misused as a response to the shidduch crisis. There is a need for it to exist, but it has to be l’shem shamayim, not just because men who are considered “good boys” have the power to do it, so they want to do it. I feel very uneasy about the willingness people are showing to consider it, since among other things it shows:
– girls have given up on finding an appropriate shidduch
– people have given up on having enough good boys
– “good” boys are feeling entitled – one wife to earn, the other to stay home – similar to Lemech in dor Hamabul, with everyone out for himself
– lack of understanding of what this means for our culture
– lack of emulating Gedolim, none of whom have ever in history done this (since the Churban – before the Churban perhaps we were on a level to do this)
– acharon acharon chaviv, lack of concern with women’s wishes.
Ofcourse: Is polygamy supposed to be mutually beneficial? I don’t see any source for that. Why WOULD any woman want to share the poor nebish? It’s him who wants it.
It’s clear how men can and would gain from it but why would women want to allow it? You said money, so I brought that statement to its logical conclusion.
I would have said that because women would rather live with anyone than as a widow, they would prefer to be married even in a less utopian situation.
Baruch Hashem, Women can’t be forced into marriage in Torah law.
Ok, so in addition to instituting polygamy, you also want a prenuptial agreement very much to your benefit. Sounds like a recipe for a happy marriage to me!!
What skills do you have to offer? What can you do?
Myfriend: I’m personally not opposed to it. It has its place in serving Hashem. I just don’t think it should be reinstated as a solution to the shidduch crisis. It’s like saying, most of our boys are bad, so let’s share the few good ones. What does that say about us as a community, as families?
Ofcourse: You’re single and desperate. Think harder – let’s say you did polygamy, you’d have to split his life insurance with the other wives and children, there’d be slim pickings left for you at the end.
Also, if you’re going to marry someone 90 years old, it’s not so hard find a single one. Just visit the nearest nursing home.
1. Haifa girl says she’s not sure men were designed to be monogamous. They were – see the first ones in Beraishis! More men are born than women, but by adulthood there are slightly fewer men due to higher fatility rates. Why would more men be born if not for monogamy? Men are meant to learn to control themselves.
Additionally, Haifagirl is not married and probably is very stressed out about the shidduch crisis. I would like to know how a married woman would feel if her husband said “Sweetie, I love you so much. I think I’ll get another wife that I’ll love as much as you. Don’t worry, I have enough love for both of you.” What woman wouldn’t be thrilled at this opportunity?
2. A man who wants polygamy for selfish reasons, is not going to treat either wife properly. Besides for trak (possibly) no one claims they want another wife in order to learn Torah l’shem shamayim – they seem to want it for financial aid, or for their urges – just like Lemech. That’s not impressive. Also, Minhag Yisrael Torah Hi, which is why the above Gedolim haven’t tried to re-instate it.
myfriend: I’d love to see the context of haifagirl’s statement.
trak: So you want another wife in order to be able to sit and learn and be supported. Why didn’t any of our Gedolim ever think of this idea in order to be able to not worry about anything?
myfriend: See Bereishis Perek 4 Pasuk 19:
??? ???? –
?? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????, ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??????.
?? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ??????? ??????, ?????? ????? ????? ??????, ???? ????? ???? (???? ?? ??) ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?????, ??? ?????? ????? ???
Translation for our purposes: [Lemech] had two wives: this was the way of the generation of the flood, one for having children and one for marriage.
Interesting how only men are interested in this. Hashem created Adam with one wife to be an eizer k’negdo. The first polygamist wasn’t someone we would want to emulate, iirc.
Feif un: in Brooklyn there’s the Kollel Store (or whatever it’s called now) and the prices are excellent. Goldberg’s is also good.
myfriend: so you sit with your back to it. as for improperly clad women, that’s anytime you step outside, unless you live in New Square or something.
I see I’ve had a name change…. thanks Moderator!
Get your makeup done by a professional, they can apply makeup to make you look slimmer. And make sure your clothes fit well.