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Daasyochid- the way I was taught to be tznious for example. I grew up frum and dressed however I wanted because thats the standard of the community my family is in. I always wanted to follow what the other girls were doing. When I went to seminary I finnaly learned hilchos tznious for he first time. I sat down with my teacher and cried how if I started coverig my knees id be totally frowned upon in my community bacj home. If I wanted to cover my elbows and bH when I was married cover all my hair and not show that whole front area like many ladies I know do, people wpulecall me names. It was a matruity and growth experiance but I learned the basics of halacha what needs to be covered and I started from the bottom seeing how it made me feel. Giving it a chance and learning in the side the beauty of tznious. Its not simply the fact that my body was now being covered its that I knew for a fact that when I walked the steeets people werent looking at me for my body. I was able to start growing in the indide because I felt beautiful and I felt that my outside was becoming who I was. It is a total body experiance but it really starts back at the basics. Its not something that can be forced because then you end up with girls who say “at least were wearing stockings” when there skirts r barley covering their knees. Or on the other hand you get girls who have no care for tznious because they are following the trends and trying to keep up with the stars in hollywood.
arent all puzzles interlocking???
thanks bochur. would you say your parents are more accepting of you? Baruch Hashem my changes have given me a greater love and appreciaition for every Jew! thank you for the chizuk!
Oomis! Thank you for taking the time to share your wise advice! My story in short goes like this. I became more frum in seminary because my eyes had been opened to a whole new side of life id just never been exposed to. I tested the waters and have found a comfertable niche. BAruch Hashem I continue to grow, and learn from every Jew. My parents ovbiously love me but it is extremly hard for them to understand “whwre rhey went wrong”. When parents r relgious and raise you relgiously and then you change from that religious course they set you on its very hard for then to understand why. Thank God like you said time has done wonders but still its been veey challenging trying to get hem to understand the type of boy I want to marry and the lifestyle I want to lead.
I so look at it as such a bracha though. Often when we change because we are inspired it is hard to keep it. But thank God since I have stuck with my beleifs and happily so throughout this tough time I have been lucky enough to now have deep strong roots and bezras Hashem pass on the ahavas yisroel and ahavas and yiras Hashem I have been building and continue to build. I know my parents are older and wiser. But I know that I need to do what is right between Hashem and I and how I can become closer to Hashem. Yes you can say wait and give that time. But every minute that im not being myself im missing out on growth, ability to do mitzvos and chessed and tikkun olam. I wont just drop halacha just because my parents arent happy with who I am. I am respectful and happy and show them that I am still me in my essence just with personal bein adam lemakom changes.
bochur- can u share with us what changed over the past two years that now you are wearing a black hat, in comperiason to your post two years ago, when you could barley talk to your parents.. im going through something similar, i am a girl though, (i read your story in your post from two years ago) and could use your advice.chizuk.
awww 29!!!! You do lots of good youself by being an awesome mod and helping maintain peace! many people don’t think when they write (including me sometimes!) and you take the time to make sure only appropriate posts get posted!! thank you!!!
I wanted to compliment little froggie and starting a thread that is going to make such a kiddush Hashem! I hope you continue to do Massim tovim for Am Yisroel!!!
29- r we still buddies???
My great grandfather was born in Meah Shearim in the early 1920’s and moved to Brooklyn and ultimatly ended up in canada! The other three are all polish and survied the war in different ways! My great great great grandfather lived in Galicia and was the Beis Ephraim (Rav Ephraim Zalman Margolis)
does this apply to the same name as father. What if its his english name? Isnt the problem that you will be saying your parents name every time you call your husband?
which camp was it?
i know of a chasuna that happened yesturday. you are allowed as long as youve counted 33 days which is lag baomer!
mw13- so beautifully said! I think we can always prod at ways people are doing things the wrong way. At the end of the day, everyone is quite opinionated and wants whats best for Hashem, and very often what is best for one group isn’t best for the other and therefore they focus on the disagreement and then the world hears about it. This is where it becomes a chilul Hashem. If only we were more judgmental of ourselves and less judgmental of others..the world would be a much better place!
mw13- I really appreicate your insight. That was my second thoguht. What I was trying to say though, is the first step is learing to love one another. The only way we can be like Beis Hillel and Beis Shammai is first love each other. there is no discussion when both sides are so close minded all they will do is yell and point fingers. Do you know what I’m saying?
But I definitly agree with you. I wish we could “fight” it out and wrestle out the material of the torah, but in the proper ways
is anyone gonna go to sleep tonight and feel good about how they are talking to each other. your clearly hurting each other.
DY- your right, there are definitly others who know the perspectives well. This is just how I feel coming from my understanding. I want to hear others perspectives, Im well aware mine is one in 7 billion!
wow. I wish that every comment wasn’t so hostile one towards another. Beis Hillel and Beis shammai disagreed over and over but at the end of the day they were friends. They simply disagreed and rightfully so. Everyone needs to love and fear Hashem in the best way possible.
Our purpose is to take all these challenges and make the most of them, by doing so learning about our kochos and bring ourselves to IyH a newer spiritual level.
You don’t have to listen to anything I’m saying, but as someone who grew up exactly the way you are describing. I have true insight into the modern orthodox community, if we are going to put titles on it. I know there way of thought. I feel that as someone who understands both ends of the spectrum I’m trying to fill the gap. There are many flaws in both, but there are beatiful things in both as well. And im sorry everyone on this planet fails to see beauty in one another. But at the end of the day, even if the beauty is simply, they are doing what they know best to make Hashem happy, and so are we. wow we have something in common. amazing. and if you think that what they are doing is wrong, then intolerance, hating, spitting, talking badly (and i;m talking to bboth sides of the spectrum-everyone is at fault)are no going to change anything.
Hashem might not want them serving him the way they are. maybe they are wrong. but if you beleive that they are wrong and simply want to excommunicate them, then you are wrong too. Hashem doesn’t want that- Hashem doesn’t want sinas Chinam. It says in the Torah, something both sides of the spectrum understand VEAHATVA LERAYACHA CAMOCHA. everyone gets that. so start from there. If we learn to love each other, we will not only have more tolerance for one another, but we might have a hashpaa on people who need it.
again, please mochel me if you took what i was saying the wrong way.
daasyochid- im not being intolerant of squeak. C”V. I’m intolerant of intolerance. that is not only referring to squeak. its referring to anyone who is intolerant.
Like i said before, I am proud of who I am, I am proud of squeak. I dont know him and I dont know how he conducts his life, but I know he cares enough about his standpoint that he is willing to be intolerant of others. Which in the beginning is fine. You should be strong about who you are. but there is a fine line between passion and solidarity, and hurting people around you.
squeak- I wish you would open your heart a little more and not be so selfish. Im not asking you to xhange your views to listen to them etc. if you truley had ahava for your fellow jew, you would give them the benfit of the doubt and love them and attempt to draw then in. of course many people are not serving Hashem the way you are, as strignently and beautifully as you are. but you are completly missing the point! to not tolerate someone because they dont serve Hashem the way you do. thats self centered. and if you truly beleive they are doing almost avodah zara- help them!!!!!! dont be intolerant. becuase im sorry to say being closed off from jews who are unlike u is not veahavta leraycha camocha. its having a bad feeling in your heart for the other. Hashem doesn’t want this from us.
macklemore- so im assuming it was my team that pummled your team! go jays!!
I dont see why this is a fight at all…
one rabbi says yes to baseball…one rabbi says no… follow your rabbi and cool your jets.
squeak- no one here is saying move towards being less machmir, or not following charedi lifesytle etc. We are not saying adopt MO tradaiton. You should feel proud to be where you are. Trust me, I always look around at girls who grew up in bais yaakov homes, at how much they love tehillim. How much they recognize their role as a Jeiwsh woman in the world. How wonderfully diverese they are, but how important halcha, mitzvos and Hashem is to them.
I look at myself, Baruch Hashem, I am so proud of who I am. But i didnt grow up like that. This was a ecent change of my own personal choices and trust me it has not been easy.
No one in any community should be excommunicated. We are all Jewish. Most people do not know. They are “tinok sheaino yodeia”. Im post seminary and I only found out many things about halacha and life in my recent years. Not everyone is as fortunate the be in the places you are: At such a high level of fearing and loving Hashem.
This is why i PLEA to you, to hakatan, to damoshe, to the people here who speak so so highly of the Torah to STOP hating on people who call themselves MO, who conform to Zionistic ideas, who wear this type of black hat and not that, who work all day and learn in their limited spare time. I plea from the bottom of my heart, that you open yourselves up just a little bit more, to being kinder, to drawing people like the above in and showing them that your way of life is beautiful, and not judgemental. If you are not strong enough to do this, and you are aftraid you will be influenced the wrong way, then fine I respect that. But dont write posts here about why they are wrong wrong wrong wrong. Give them the benfit of the doubt. Take the hate out of your heart.
LOVE YOUR FELLOW JEW, BECAUSE THEY ARE A JEW. And if they dont know…TELL THEM!!!
macklemore what would you consider appropriste for chok hamoed? meaning if its a way to have fun with your friends and your on break then go for it. but if you think you should be doing meaningful things then maybe choose somethig wth more meaning?
shkoacyh damoshe on the post!
hakatan: do the gedolim also condem the greaest zionest in our history as jewish eople Moshe rabbeinu!?!?!?!
(just saying im not a zionist myself but im just curious!)
Taom- I think the most challenging thing with tznious today is the inspiration for it!. I grew up MO so tznious was not strict and I have a very close friend who went to Bais Yaakov and she said tznious was so strict but no on really ever explained why.
I think the beauty in what you are doing is that you are looking for your own inspirstion becaise this mitzva is important to you (not to mention comes with so many brachos iYH for your bayis neeman byisroel) but you will iyH be able to inspire your children!
my inspiration was the way I felt about myself. I used to dress in very immodest clothing and when I learned the real halahos of tznious I began changing one thing at a time and seeing how it felt. it was truley a life changing experiance. the day I finnaly decided to wear tights and cover my legs all the time I felt like a new person. I felt like there was me and there was my body and they were two connected beings. it wasnt like I was walking around anymore and worrying if people were starig at me because of my tight skirts. I gained a new respect for myself because I knew everyone who I spoke to and who wanted to be friends with me had nothing to do with the way I was dressed ( and if it did then I knew I was only havig good hashpa on them!)
dressing tzniously has allowed me to really get to know my inner self and find my true happiness because I dont care if boys dint notice me. I frankly dont want them to notice me. my family day in day out make fun of the way I dress and trust me its been the greatest bracha. ive only strengthened my emunah in Hashem through this because I know how happy it has made me as a person in olam hazeh!
sorry if that was so no helpful, but I thoght id give you some chizuk since youve always been such a good friend to me 🙂
yeshivaguy- I feel like ur being under attack here!! im not here to attack you as I understand where your Rebbi is coming from. I understand and repect your descions to stay away from sporting events. although I do have a question:
how did your Rebbi explain to you to interact with goyim in apositive way. if not going out and being your frum self, showing the world that frum jews are amazing people! I understand if you yourself arenot prepared to go out into the world, but you dont know how many people around you are acctualy jews who are simply not frum anymore and what a hashpa you cab have kn them.
I go to secular collage. YES EVERYONE SHUN ME lol. but its really because A There is a huge frum community in teh school and B I come from a vey modern home and my parents want me there.
yeshiva guy- you wanna see pritzus (no you dont) come to my school! what do I do about it? I make a kiddush Hashem. each and everyday of my life. I dress bAruch Hashem tzniously, my teachers are always impressed by how respectful I am and my classmates who many are Jewish but not frum are always asking me questions.
is it comfertable? not always! but I really think that you dont need to be so ignorant of the fact that pritzus is out there. its in lakewood. its in brooklyn. its in ur backyard. you cant escape it. you need to learn about to deal wih it properly. I think by doing so you will live a much more God fearing life. not only that but side point- I love my collage more than I thoguht I would, simply cuz BH I am very strong in who I am, and the contrast betwee. the goyim and I makes me love Hashem that much more.
no prob hodu!!
When we reach shomayim, Hashem will not say oh here comes the earner/learner. Who are we to put titles on anyone.
Hodulahashem- dont put a title on a guy ur lookijg for. If your looking seriously your not going to want a guy with a title. If you want to give him one it shud go like this “BEST GUY EVER”. When your asking the shadchan what you want simply describe your situation. And if your giving him a title thst should be it not “learner” “eaener”. Then we are making assumions about someones job in life/ connection to Hashem/ yearning for Torah, when simply we just do not know.
Shopping- you are a special person. There arent many people who are trying to bridge the gap like you.
Its funny because its so scary for people who are very frum to see people from their community say well maybe we shud try to become more connected to other types of jews. As it is with the MO community. Hey dont like when people become too machmir. I know these are general statments so dont take then oht of context but in general this is causing an even farther push to either end of the spectrum to get as far away from the other group as possible. But neither of these lifstyles are sustainable.
Apushtayid thats exactly what im saying! I was sitting in the car with someone once and the car in front of us kept making lane changes without warning. She said something like “that guy is so stupid” and started honking. I stoped her and said look, what he is doing isnt proper, he could get someone into an accident but you never know why hes doing it. Maybe his mother is vey sick and hes rushing to see her. Therefore his actions are to blame not him himself.
Its easy to judge others than it is to judge ourselves but the farther we tell ourself that jews are sinners if they don’t act like us the worse off our ahavas yisroel is going to be!!
shalavim for women- its halahic modern orthodox and many of the teachers are charedi. ts is a great mix of dtaff anf allows you to grow and feel comfertable where you want to grow to.
apushtayid- I completly agree. but dont you guys want peace with people who arent like you. I still live in the community I grew up in as I am not married but I have plently to do with the charedi community. you must hear how both communties speak of each other. its so sad.
im not suggesting you shrug off when someone is doing something wrong. im saying watch how you speak about them. watch how u feel about them. if your goig to end up wih negative views you will treat them negativly.
you think im able to tell my parents they are living sheker. no. chas veshalom I would never do that. you set by example. if you show that you love each jew but you hold certain beliefs very seriously people will want to be more like you. not if you harden your shell and keep yourself in a closed minded box and tell people they are sinning because hey simply never learned your side of the spectrum. is that heir fault? its just as much their fault is your fault for not learning their side of he spectrum.
hakatan are you telling me that before I became more frum I was a sinner? you know its people like you that almost turned me away from becoming this frum.
when I was baruch Hashem in a growth phase I had a friend who told me I was not frum enough because I had not started wearing tights. meanwhile she was wearing very tight revaeling clothes with tights. i was almost turned off from becoming as frum as I am by being looked down upon and being told I was simply not doing things right.
please look at the other perspective.
shopping- first of all, shkoyach to you on noticing these ideas at an age where your heart and mind are open to so many new ideas. This is something that is important and missing in many people because as we age, we simply become hardned to what we belive in and think “its too late to change”. It is neevr to late to change.
Keep these ideas through your life, because this is whtat Hashem is looking for, people with baseless love-AHAVAS CHINAM.
That being said- to all you haters on shopping, I speak from personal experiance. Just today I was sitting with a friend who is struggling to with hilchos tznious, in the case of wearing pants or skirts. And Simply, you cannot just say “your not frum” or “Your not doing the right thing”. The ONLY way to solving our disagreements is through love. Everyone has their challenges. Everyone. You cannot say that someone is modern orthodox is less frum than you because you dont have a TV in your house and they do. It could very well be that when he learns his torah, it is much more serious than when you learn yours. CHAS VESHALOM i am not assuming, im only saying that we do not know “who has richer blood” therefore who are we to hate. Yes we disagree, but at the end of the day, since we do not know who H|ashem thinks is wrothy and who Hashem doesn’t think is worthy, it is baseless hatred. We are learning the same Torah.
shivim panim leTorah.
i will forever be a seminary girl <3
TAOM- how are you!
if you marry for money you might as well rephrase that to ” you marry THE money”
shopping shkoyach! once again my inspiration!
I have learned that it is a majour issues..you should probably ask your LOR/posek on this one! Hatzlacha
rebyidd- as much as thats true, I think the message is something that is true and powerful, and can give alot of chizuk where it’s needed!
amen! you too!!!
if I had a son, id want him to marry you!!!! You are one amazing and growth orietned girl!! keep it up!
there is going to be a production by the seminary in a few weeks! come see it and see for yourself!