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its shidduch dating, it is an interrogation
I have heard that music is one of those things that penetrates directly to the neshama, the singer and perhaps musician as well have a direct influence that we cannot filter out. In general that is the danger of “goyisha music”. The concern here is that at the time this particular artist had the machshavas that are now being expressed, if so then these underlying feelings will be conveyed in his music.
For whatever its worth, I stopped listening to his music after attending a concert of his. The crowd at the concert missed the message of the music, mixed dancing being the *least* of my objection. I had no expectation of him stopping the show or preventing a certain type of crowd, however, if his music had been of pure intent then perhaps the crowd would have filtered itself, by being affected by his music and message.
It saddens me that such a public figure, so well known for his yiddish appearance, would choose this path. I hope his family is strong and has the proper people around them to help support them. And for their sake and the sake of all am yisroel he finds his way back to where he needs to be.
Many of the kiruv organizations have people who donate either money or teffilin specifically for baalei tshuva, have him contact one of these groups and I’m sure someone will be able to help him out, he just needs to be proactive.
I would like to make an addendum to my previous comment. It should bother us that a Jew is going off the derech. But that reaction is not anger, that reaction is more like what soliek and others have done by reaching out to her with love and concern.
I have not read the book, nor do i plan to, but I believe the response should be, instead of bashing her and her decisions, to strengthening our own connection and devotion to yidishkite. I truly believe that we are only upset by something when we see that chesron in ourselves. If we strengthen ourselves and are comfortable with our relation to Hashem this type of shtus (which unfortunately happens all the time is as evident by numerous blogs) will not bother us.
Derech: Excellent!
There are a lot of people who used to post who have moved on… I wonder how many still check the site
I agree with soliek, we need to be proactive talk with our kids before it gets out of hand.
I was a big drinker and I for sure had my nights that if I could remember them I’d wish I could forget them. Kids mature, we just need to keep them safe until they do.
General rule: if you are emotionally invested in something you won’t act or think logically, so with all due respect to the OP this topic does not need to be addressed by mothers or daughters or shaddchanim, but rabbonim who have a all encompassing view (ie maintaining halacha and yiddish values)
and to the one mention of polygamy… a mormon could be your next president
Love and Strength. It’s all we can do sometimes. Show them as much love as you show your other kids. Be happy and secure in your own yiddishkiet. And you have to be strong when people attack you, or when you read things that say it’s your fault. Or worse when your kids are flagrantly dismissive in front of you.
There is no quick fix, anything built quick, will come down quick. Be patient. I hope who ever this original poster is has much hatzlocha and strength.
Isn’t this a discussion the mods (and maybe their friends) should have amongst themselves? It seems to me to be a pretty simple solution, if the mod sees that someone posted on Shabbos, don’t let the post go through.
For the sake of Shalom let’s take this in a different direction. Someone brings you food on Shabbos and there is no eiruv, do you use it? Do you tell them there is no eiruv? I think the best way is not to thank them, just explain what the halacha is in a seicheldica way.
When they ask you to take off your shoes at the security check in the airport I once asked how often these floors get clean and mentioned I really didn’t want to pick up someone’s athletes foot or anything like that. They were not amused.
did you ask them to define happy? because it doesnt sound like they’re happy
squeak made me laugh
is it an asei to only wear one type of fabric or a lo sasei not to wear denim?
Wooh! hold on there. The way we speak also effects who we are as a person. I am sure DenimGirl and all the other people out there wearing denim skirts are nice fine bas torahs. How can you possibly call them a tramp. And since when does wearing jeans, even if they are “sand blasted” a sign of a tramp? What does that quote have to do with anything?
Denim was originally made popular during the gold rush because it was cheap for Levi and Strauss to make and it didn’t show dirt as well.
While I agree that how one carries himself does have an effect on behavior, it is far from the determining factor. We should be much more concerned about whats on the inside than whats on the outside (insert colored shirt and kipa sruga comments here).
for sake of discussion, it sounds like you’re in oness, there’s nothing you can do, you want to daven and by all means keep trying to make zman but if you can’t you can’t, i would assume you would just do tashlumim at mincha. However this is a big question I would definitely consult a Rav.
Really hoping you have a quick and complete refuah shelaima.
nu? how was the date?
Somethings fishy here…
But I am curious about the OP did he ever make it to the chassana?
Unfortunately the Chashmonoim went off. As Kohanim they should have turned over the malchus to Beis Dovid as soon as they could, instead kinah taiva and kavod took over. Unable to maintain their rule they invited in the Romans to help wage their battles, along with inviting in the physical power of Rome they invited in the philosophy as well, which was and is an extension of Greek philosophy.
As for as the OP’s question and subsequent point. For every thousand on the battle field there have always been a thousand davening and learning for them. So those who learn are helping. Those in the field just need to learn to be somech on the system The Ribbono Shel Olam set in place.
This is a very very slippery slope. If you look at prominent cases of the day, Rubashkin and Pollard, they too committed a crime according to the laws of the land. However the kehilla is up in arms because we believe that they are getting too harsh penalties because they are Jewish. We cannot stand pat, or we will surely be reliving history. But at the same time to try to act as if we are above the law only brings more (if there were such a thing, perhaps more open) antisemitism upon us. Hashem Yishmor
Gavra and Old man, thank you for explaining your point(s).
I don’t understand. You are saying the choice is Gedolim or Parents. OK. But in your previous post it seemed to me as if you were saying it was teacher vs parents with rav. Is the teacher following gedolim and the parents/rav not?
I’m used to a small town community where the teachers and parents work together very closely (and are often the same people). That could be why I’m shocked by the comment.
a good friend, i believe, has a “go-go babyz” its good but heavy, a smaller person might not be able to lift it, he’s not the type to spend crazy amounts of money so I’m sure it’s affordable
“your teacher has ulterior motives into creating separation between you and your parents”
That is a pretty strong accusation care to elaborate?
Mayan davash,
I think you missunderstood his/her post. Scnorring three times a day is a remez to tefillah to HKBH. We may and should ask everything from him.
Baalsechel, while the analogy is a beutiful one there is a difference. We approach our benifactor with respect and anavo (at least we try). And when we take our three steps back we have already expressed our hakoras hatov for everything that is done for us. I believe the OP is refering to those individuals who stick their hand in between your fork and mouth and are already looking for the next target. There seems to be an expectation that tzedaka will be given. Once I forgot my wallet to davening and wasn’t able to give erev shabbos to a gentleman who regularly comes around, although I appologized the look I received was a look of such disdain I couldn’t believe it. Unfortunately I believe a culture of dependency has been created.
…. when you wear a shirt only once before washing it
one amendment: I am talking in generalities. Not intending to offend anyone in the CR.
I could be wrong (it happens regularly), 50 years ago, maybe even 25 years ago, no one needed training on how to be a good husband/wife. They had Torah. But I think that on a whole, they were were responsible and less selfish. People thought about others. I don’t know how to teach responsibility and lack of selfishness, but I know these are things I have had to overcome and in today’s children (yes 18 and 19 year olds and even older) it only gets worse.
i believe the cough drops are ok, but i’m not a rabbi, i would call one
The Shidduch “Crisis” is a constant discussion in my home as my wife has many friends (of various hashkofos) who are still searching for their husband. So many people and organizations want to help, but I’m not sure any of us know how.
I am sure we have all identified causes, but I wonder how many of these causes are actually symptoms of the problem. For example (I know some may not agree with the age gap but for sake of illustration I am going to use it): Age gap – guys only want to marry younger girls so there are more girls who ‘miss’ their prime age. But perhaps this is caused by the stigma that an older girl receives once she ‘misses’ the ‘ideal’ age. It becomes very circular. And I won’t begin to mention that in the secular world most marriages are also comprised of an older man and younger women. Using this as only one example I think it is very hard to identify causes and effects.
The next point that often graces our table is the labeling as a “crisis”. I have heard that certain rabbonim refuse to use the word “crisis”. They feel that calling it a crisis is merely admitting a lack in emuna. At the same time I know many rabbis who privately will refer to it as a crisis but publicly will not. Have there been any gedolim who have openly come out and declared it a crisis? Do we have reshus to call it a crisis if they have not?
My third and final idea that I would like the Olam to consider and comment on, what are acceptable courses of action. As I said before without knowing clearly what the causes are it is very difficult to treat the problem. So what can we do to manage the symptoms? A member of my family is of the very strong opinion the barriers (mechitzahs so to speak) should be brought down. Bochur tables and single girl tables at weddings should not be across the room from each other. Or more mixed Shabbos tables to help break down the lack of communication. I disagree on this point and if someone would like me to explain why I will be happy to. Does shidduch dating need to be completely revamped? Perhaps the ‘rules’ changed?
I hope klal yisroel can quickly get throw this. Grow in our emuna bitachon and hishtadlus, and everyone who is searching for their bashert find him/her quickly. And we as a people can, as we have before, rise from this adversity and become stronger and more united as we prepare for mashiach and binyan beis hamikdash.
i have two large gedolim pictures the GR”A and Rav Shach
for what its worth I also support Jothar
keep up the good work
Agreer, I am very sorry for your situation and I agree with the other posters that suggest you see someone professional and perhaps if there is no progress pursue other methods.
I had written a fairly lengthy response, in defense of ‘older’ men/boys. And defending Nasi’s approach as well intending in light of a bad problem. But I realized it wasn’t going to make a difference.
Agreer, I really do feel bad for you. And I hope that things get better quickly. The world is not always so dark and everyone has their different nisayonos to get through. May you get through yours quickly and once again be able to see Hashem’s Bria in a positive light.
one can change his own habits, one cannot change the habits of his spouse
maybe it was just bad tuna, how are you feeling today?
BTGuy,
I’m sorry you’re hurting. Dating is not easy. Let me tread cautiously and I hope not to offend you, but I really want to give you chizuk. I assume from your name you’re a baal teshuva, secular society (which also permeates frum society as well sometimes) indoctrinates us with a notion of romantic love [argue over who loves each other more]. In my opinion and from experience this merely infatuation and physical desire that often blinds us to real problems. Parents sometimes can see these. Or her parents just didn’t like you for whatever reason, clearly they’re wrong, and I hate to say there are biases against baalie teshuva, often unfounded. And I can guarantee you do not want inlaws that dislike you.
You will get through this, use it as a motivator in tefillah and bitachon.
I would suggest, although you may not want to, for your well being it might be best to break off contact, and that means not speaking through friends or being places where you could bump into each other. It will be must easier to move on the less you think about her.
Again I am sorry for your pain, but know gam zu ltova, and I really hope I didn’t offend you with my unsolicited advice, but I’ve been there.
It sounds like you might have an organization particularly in mind but I can’t quite tell.
A kiruv organization that I know goes after Jews thats it. Sometimes people, like you described who think they’re Jewish, will show up. Usually the Rabbi and Rebbitzen try to sort them out. Sometimes its much later down the line. The goal is not to convert them. However, after learning and living life as a frum Yid, then the go through the process. (Which I have heard is easier/shorter if a father is halachicaly Jewish but the mother is not)
I definitely hear what everyone is saying. However, we choose our involvement in a “story”. Another thread I didn’t even know who the person was that is being discussed (nor do I care to know). However, with the kletzkys we, all of klal yisroel, were heart broken, many people felt, and continue to feel, as if Leiby was their own. We see the same thing with Gilad Shalit as the family tries to balance normalcy and keeping the klal informed of progress. The media will be as savage as we want them to be. If we lack interest, the media will lack interest. It is just a matter of us (yes we are and must be responsible) choosing the proper “stories” to follow after and when to stop. As far as I know the media and individuals have given the requested time and space to both the Kletzkys and Shalits and I hope they will continue to do so.
Being labeled by an incident is another issue. But the reality is we are all labeled by what has happened to us or what we have done. For example Shlomo is Dovid’s son, or, he is the mechaber of xyz. To be labeled by a tragedy is unfortunate. But it happened, and now these two incredibly strong and inspirational families will continue, and they will acquire the status of people we can look up to because they weren’t destroyed by tragedy. We may think that the spotlight is on them, but really it is their light that can guide us.
I look forward to a day when klal yisroel knows no more tzarus.
i agree, this is getting a little out of hand
i girl i once dated told me her rabbonim had told her not to accept shalach manos from any boys as it could create a problem of sufek kiddushin.
I had never heard of such a thing so I went and gave her a nice big basket anyway… we got married a few months later
whats the starting salary for this rav you so desire, maybe i know someone if the price is right
42 – i believe it starts a week from today, rosh chodesh is friday-shabbos
There is a US phone number on their webpage
hatzlacha!
sure, why not?
I believe, and I could be wrong. The isser is eating while walking (in the shuk) because it is the derech of dogs to eat that way. As benei hamelech we hold ourselves to a higher standard. I believe it mentions it in brachos, but I don’t know the exact source.
Since it’s walking, I think sitting in a restaurant even if the tables are mamash outside onto the sidewalk would be ok.
gam zeh yaavor
Lately I have had great difficulty finding a shul to my liking. But I would never expect a shul to change just because I like something different. It seems a little self-centered to me.
As an aside, in my travels I have been to the shul the OP speaks of in Woodmere. And I agree there is something very special about it and the kehillah. But I am not sure how just by saying to duplicate it, it gets duplicated. And I remember hearing people there mention that they specifically moved to Woodmere for the shul, perhaps if that is the shul you are looking for perhaps *gasp* you should leave brooklyn.