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Why is your Rav wasting Shiur time to talk about other religions if he holds you should learn on Nittul?”
Haleivi, your words sound a bit harsh, and almost even a little pompous. How do you refer to ANYTHING my rov speaks about as a waste of time? It was all in context of the shiur, and in fact, we were learning about malcontent Eiruv Rav among the Yidden who demanded “basar” after Hashem gave them the NEIS of the Mohn.
2,000 years ago, another Eiruv Rav followed after that man, who was (pun intended) basar and not who people made him out to be, because they, too wanted “basar,” and were not happy with the Torah they already had. In the context in which we were learning, “basar” equates with taivos. The taivos were a direct rejection of Hashem (as exemplified by their rejection of the Mohn). You reject Hashem’s Miracles, you are rejecting Him. Do you see the connection yet? It was WHOLLY appropriate to be learning that on Nital Nacht, symbolic of the BIGGEST rejection of hashem that ever was. If you disagree, that’s ok, too. So you DON’T have to learn on that particular night. I have no machlokess with your decision.
I don’t know about you, but these topics are usually not on my Top Ten Hit List of Conversation. You all must have some very interesting table discussions…
An interesting thing – to me, at least – my Rov mentioned that we call last night Nital nacht for more than one reason. Nital comes from natal, the so-called “birth” day, but some hold the opinion that it was on this day that he was nitleh (hung up) on the tzeilem. Since I don’t believe he was born at this time of year, which was the Pagan Winter Solstice, either of those ideas works as well as the other. I don’t give much import to any of it, regardless.
Thank you. BTW,I do eat gebrochts. (Oops, does that burt my kids’ shidduchim???)
I thought Pharaoh would not eat bread together with Yosef. (I knew about the other, from Yosef and his brothers).
OY – OK, it was LOSHON KODESH (which is Hebrew). Perhaps the Ivrit we speak is updated or slightly altered, but it is recognizably L”K.
LAB – what is that site you mentioned? Does it speak of the things about which I posted?
Maybe Adam spoke Lashon Hakodesh? Definitely seems like that. “
Hebrew was the language of Creation, and that is what Odom spoke. it was not until Migdal Bavel that language split into 70 different ones. There is a very interesting book, the name of which escapes me, that was brought to my attention by my Rov. Its thesis is that EVERY language spoken today can be traced back to Hebrew. Certainly, I have seen such evidence in many cognate words that clearly have Hebrew roots in them, and I do not mean English language words that have been Hebraicized when put into a modern Hebrew sentence.
Look in our davening at the language of the ingredients of the Ketores, for example. I don’t know if it is the same item, but Tziporen sounds very much like “saffron.” That is not an accident. How about Milchemes Gog U’Magog – Armaggedon? There are many such examples.
There is no Midrashic account of the famous “two straws, one glass, Jew-gets-water-Mitzri-gets-blood” which has been the inspiration for the ubiquitous kindergarten project seen this time of year”
I still am trying to wrap my mind around the idea that a Mitzri would even consider sharing a cup of water with a Jewish slave. When Yosef was the second in command, they would not even eat bread in the same room with him. Or am I confusing two different things?
I do get a little upset when people follow a “minhag” as if it were m’ikar haDin, when the reason for the minhag was a very specific, time-bound one, which doesn’t apply at all, and the minahg l’chatchilah was never something that we should be doing, i.e., ceasing learning Torah for one night, except for the direst reasons. It made sense for the sake of pikuach nefesh AT THAT TIME, but that is surely not the case in this country, and I fail to understand why some people still do that, when our Torah learning is what keeps us alive. If we were in a similar situation today ch”v, I would feel differently.
I did. And my Rov told over a story how a student came up to a teacher on Nital Nacht and complained, “But we can’t learn tonight. It’s assur on Nital Nacht.” To which his rebbie replied, “And what’s your excuse for the rest of the year?”
We had a great chumash shiur on a section of B’Haaloscha tonight. I am not afraid of the Goyim. If they want to chase me down the streets for learning Chumash tonight, let them just try (I carry pointy keys). When we stop learning out of fear, THEY win! This, we can never allow again. This is not Communist Russia, Nazi Germany, or Yerushalayim when Rome was in power.
I was always taught, i.e., that if a Jew and a Mitzri were to both drink from the same glass of water, the water in the Mitzri’s mouth turned to blood. I am not sure if this really happened, but it was the IDEA of that, that was being imparted to us.
Pizza, chess, what’s next DANCING???????
My children who live at home are all working tomorrow. My son is covering for people who ARE taking off. I am “working” as I do every day, babysitting my 18 month old ainekel. It’s a dirty job but SOMEBUBBY has to do it! Somehow I will muddle through 😉
Shadchanim probably have a gazillion people waiting for callbacks. I would call the shadchan myself. That said, can we start a movement to STOP calling personal info about a boy or girl their “resume?” IT IS NOT A JOB INTERVIEW. I don’t know why it bugs me so much, but it really does.
Furthermore, I do not do “research,” except when I am writing a term paper (which I have not done in about 40 years). I make inquiries about the family of the boy or girl that has been suggested. This terminology bugs me SO much. And though I know there are far more important thigs to worry about, I feel sometimes as though the entire Shidduch process has been boiled down to solely a business deal. Anyone else feel this way?
Zol zein mit mazel und bracha (as much Yiddish as I know!!!)
Popa, do not go swimming in the jury pool! 🙂
oomis, there is reason to assume the language of our forefathers was not Ivrit, but rather Aramaic. See Ramban Bereshis 45 12.13 “ki fi hamedaber aleichem. The mama loshen of the shvatim was the language of our mothers who came from Aram Naharim and thereabouts. “
I admit to being greatly perplexed by this at times. What if their language had always been IVRIT?
The Gemara in Megilla says Mordechai is hinted to in the Targum by the ketores to mor d’ror, which is mari dachya. “
Oh, I LIKE that!!!!!!!
I think we all would like to believe there is goodness in everyone. Esav had SOME goodness in him in Kibud Av, but Halacha is that Esav sonei es Yaakov. I am sure that Adolph Hitler was all warm and fuzzy with Eva Braun, but if he were standing in front of me today…
Some people cannot be redeemed. Drug dealers on the street,addicts, pimps,gang members, these are members of society who do what they do because they WANT to.
Serial killers WANT to murder. It gives them pleasure to do so, and they often take trophies from their victims, so they can relive that pleasure over and over. There is no saving them. Only STOPPING them. Would you ask a shark to do teshuvah as it eat a swimmer in the ocean? It does that because THAT’S what it does! A psychopath or sociopath cannot do anything else. And for those who argue, keep them locked up, give them meds… well they can get pretty smart at NOT taking their meds, and why endanger other people around them, even if they ARE locked up. Can we say “Hannibal Lecter?” (Yes, I KNOW he is a fictional character, but there are such people in the world, Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind). And who is to say they will STAY locked up????
LF: I thought it’s a clear Midrash that Moshe is Egyptian (or maybe a Hebraicized version of an Egyptian word). His Hebrew name is Toviah. Mordechai and Ester are also Persian names (or Hebraicized versions thereof). “
Yep. But “Moshe” is the Hebrew form of whatever she called him. Just as Judah is the English form of Yehudah (or vice versa is the better analogy in this particular instance). Mordechai seems to have come from the Persian god Marduk, and Esther from the goddess Ishtar. Or so they say…
However, there is precedent for Esther, as the words “Haster Aster” appear in the Torah, referring to Hashem, and Mordechai can also come from “Moreid,” that Mordechai rebelled against Haman (I don’t know if that’s anyone’s actual p’shat – it occurred to me as I was typing this, now).
There are very few genuinely Hebrew names. Most come from other cultures and languages. Avram, Sarai, MOSHE (comes from Egyptian, you know), Yenta (French), etc.
All names in the Torah are in Loshon Kodesh, whatever their origin. If Batya spoke only Egyptian, she obviously did not say ki min hamayim m’shiseehu, but rather the Egyptian form of that expression. Hashem told Moshe Rabeinu what to write in Sefer Shemos, when telling that over.
Chcham – I would tend to think that those Adolphs in the Jewish cemetery in Warsaw, were probably given those names BEFORE Hitler rose to power. How many Adolphs do you think are being thus named by Jews, since WWII? And what does “Bernard” have to do with anything? We acknowledge that many people have adopted secular names. So many Yiddish names are also secular, whether or not people want to admit that. They are often based in Germanic words.
rd: Do you think it would help to put it in a cast iron dutch oven’
If you get cast iron, it probably should not be enameled (do they enamel casr iron, anyway?). You want the iron content of the pot or pan to leach into your food. It upgrades the amount of iron you ingest. Seriously.
it was something like translating ?????? ????? to “your teeth should be white”. Obviously wrong, but once you look at it that way, impossible “
I would more quickly have fallen for the translation – “And you will sharpen your bricks.”
“Forget it Mammele! (Btw, I like your name!) We can have a (virtual) coffee together if you like, outside the Coffee Room, but if you continue to express your views here you will be persona non grata, and that’s just the sad reality.”
Why would you say that, Golfer? Chas v’sholom!
Mameleh, I am not arguing with you or anyone. I am expressing my personal feelings about L”K, and do not consider Yiddish to be that, though it obviously has a status among Jews. HEBREW was the Jewish unifying language both in ancient times and today, insofar as the Goyishe velt is concerned. I disagree with your view, albeit respectfully, and I can understand where you are coming from. I just do not subscribe to that particular belief. And FTR, I like your name, too. Mameleh is my favorite thing to say to my granddaughter, after Maideleh.
Regarding Motty/Mordechai, my point in mentioning it was that yes, the K. family gave L”K names, but DID in fact at times use Yiddish kinuyim where desired. My first name is a L”K name, but my parents always called me by the more Yiddish sounding nickname of it. Like giving the child the name Yehudah or Yehudah Aryeh, but calling him “Leibeleh.” I have absolutely no issue with that.
Oomis: You are also ignoring the fact that Yiddish names are written with L”K aleph Beis which we all agree is holy, most have an official accepted spelling and almost all have corresponding Psukim (with the first and last letter of the name matching the first and last letter of a possuk from Tanach) that are easily found to say at the end of Shemona esra. If one starts with English names he’s essentially starting from scratch with no mesorah on spelling and there might be no Posukim that match.”
I apologize, Mammale but what you said made absolutely no sense to me. So what if they are written with L”K letters? The name Adolph can be written Aleph,Daled,Vov,Lamed, Phey Sofis. THAT makes it a Jewish name??? I would tend to think that the secular words (like feigel or hersh or ber) that were used in lieu of actual Hebrew names Tzipporah, Tzvi Dov), did NOT have “pesukim” attached any more than an English name transliterated to L”K letters might.
You may find pesukim for virtually ANYTHING, if you really want to. One can find “proofs” that fit any theory, given the desire to do so. I am really not certain what point you were making, and that might be my own failing, but I don’t see it.
The Kaminetsky family, by the way, uses one name per child, and always Biblical. “
That may be so, but Rabbi Mordechai Kaminetzky was always known (at least as a child) as “Motty.” I know that personally.
SYAG, if what you say is so (and I totally accept that it could be the likely reason), kal v’chomer that Yiddish language names are not really appropriate today (for BUSINESS purposes????!!! Not even TORAH-related???)).
I had a relative with a VERY unfortunate-sounding Jewish name. It was actually a corrupted form of her ENGLISH name which was Bertha (which came fiorst, the chicken or the egg – I do not know). I doubt that any girl was ever named after her. And there is no Hebrew equivalent. The name simply had no real meaning.
If we remove our emotionalism from all this (but that was my Great-GRANDMOTHER, she was a tzadeikes!!! The Rebbie was a GAON!), and look honestly at the naming issue, I think a reasonable thinker could understand the position many of us are expressing here. Very simply – A Jewish name is a name rooted in the Torah Loshon. All else, may reflect an emotional component, a connection to something that should not be minimized in its importance, but is nonetheless NOT in keeping with “lo shinu es shemoseihem.”
I actually liked Popa’s pizza analogy.
I don’t know why this is so. Many frum people don’t want to change the name of the one after who they are naming a child. “
I don’t diminish the chashivus of the person for whom a child may have been named. But – why was the ORIGINAL person named in a language that is not L”K (which includes Aramaic, because it is Gemorah Loshon)? Let’s say that someone is a Baal Teshuvah who never had a Jewish name at all and his birth father was a non-Jew. His name is Steven. He became a frum Yid and a great baal middos tovos and outstanding learner. But his name is still Steven (ben Avraham, I guess). Any Jewish name that he may adopt, was not given to him at birth. So should kids be named Steven after the name by which he was always known? I doubt that you will find many such children.
BTW, my Rov ZT”L told me when I was first naming children, that it is ALWAYS a zechus to the person for whom a child is being named, to find the L”K translation of the Yiddish name and use that instead. Thus, a girl might be named Tzipporah, in memory of a Faigah.
It is not necessarily true that a male Jewish name is followed by a Yiddish name (when the Yiddish is used)that reflects that Jewish name, i.e. Tzvi Hersh. I had an Uncle Sholom Mendel. Isn’t Mendel typically preceeded by Menachem? But he was named for a Sholom and a Mendel. How is Mendel any more “heilige” than Mark? The Mendel for whom he was named might have been a a very nice poshuteh Yid. But there are a LOT of poshuteh Yidden who have secular names, who are wonderful people. No one is giving their children those names at the Omud.
I know it is difficult for some people to see this point, because we have been conditioned to think of Yiddish as extremely holy, our Mama Loshon (though Sephardic Jews might argue that point). But if we are truly objective, Yiddish TODAY is really no more holy in the sense that it may have once been, than English is. Torah is disseminated in English in numbers far greater than Yiddish ever was. Most Jews speak English, even those who speak Yiddish in this country, so English is the real unifier today. I am not putting down Yiddish. I simply do not understand how it came to be revered to the point that people stopped using L”K for naming their children, and started using Jewish vernacular instead.
If you need to explain it, it probably was not all that funny.
I would not purposely eat cholent on Thursday night, based SOLELY on the idea that it is a food that is made especially l’kovod Shabbos. And no, I don’t typically eat gefilte fish during the week, either, though it is not necessarily a “Shabbos” food (but cholent by its nature, is).
I think that at some point, people need to concede that there are some things we cannot and will not ever understand. That’s why it’s called FAITH.
When I daven formally, Hebrew and Aramaic (where applicable), of course. Otherwise, when I talk to Hashem on my own, it’s in English.
You watch a movie. You know exactly what will happen, and when you watch a second time, that is exactly what happens. Your knowing, does not influence what the characters will choose to do.
That is l’havdil like Hashem’s Knowing what we will do.
As a baal teshuva. One story I can tell you is that I once bought a ticket to a concert for not jewish music and my parents who aren’t religious made me sell the ticket because they didn’t think it was appropriate for me to go to that concert. “
Vogue, just because parents are not frum, does not mean that they are not seicheldig, good parents. Obviously they brought you up well.
I don’t think Yiddish is inherently holy, but part of kedusha, which means separation, is our being distinct from the nations. Yiddish, as a language unique to Jews, keeps us unique. English obviously doesn’t. “
DY, I accept what you are saying, BUT – Hebrew did that first, and was and is the language of our people since we WERE a people. Yiddish is a relatively modern invention (though the same could be said for modern day Hebrew, to a certain extent), whose roots are in German. And just as not all Hebrew-speaking Jews are frum and holy, sadly, neither all those who speak Yiddish. The separatism of kedusha was not why people began to speak Yiddish. They needed a unifying way to communicate with Jews throughout Europe, and thus evolved this new language. It could have and SHOULD have IMO, been Hebrew all along. It must be that many people spoke some smattering of German in each country, and it thus became a common language after further Jewish refinements.
I have nothing against Yiddish, though I don’t speak it. It is a rich and colorful language, filled with much of our heritage, and replete with expressions that just cannot be translated adequately into English. It is a language that always makes me think of my grandparents with much love. I have a similar bond with my Israeli Mishpacha when I speak to them in Ivrit.
Vayomer is hu amar, in english means “and he said”. “
A perfect example of the “Vov” hamehapechet, that when placed at the beginning of such a word, changes the meaning of the tense of the word either from past to present or present to past. “V’amarti” would then become, “I will say.”
There are, of course, some exceptions to this rule, where the Vov actually means “and” and the tense is correct otherwise. I have found that this usually signals to me some kind of drush-ie meaning, whereby one can extrapolate a “future” meaning for the generations, even though the sentence is meant to be a reference to a past occurrence. Kind of like the idea that history repeats itself.
I’ll never forget when a Jewish publication (innocently, I believe)posted a mazel tov to Esther Schoenfeld and Chaim Berlin upon their engagement.
oomis – I believe you got it backwards. Think “Vayoled ben”.
I didn’t get it backwards. Remember, the Torah DOES NOT come with nekudos. People put them in, so if it is pronounced for some reason as ben, as per your example, that may be due to the way we have accepted pronouncing it in that instance. Generally speaking, from a strictly grammatical point of view, Bein is translated as “son” and Ben (as in Yosef ben Yaakov) means the “bein” of someone (though hopefully not the “bane” of anyone). It is typically written with a tzeireh under the beis, and not a sergol (I think that is the correct name for the three dots that vocalize as a short “e”, though I always said seh-gol as a child). BTW, sometimes vowels are altered because of some OTHER grammatical rule that comes before or after a particular word.
I haven’t seen the article, but absolutely believe we are a much more narcissistic generation. We are a generation of entitlement, across the board (meaning, not necessarily the frum velt), where people feel they deserve a handout from the government, for doing absolutely nothing in return. We are selfish, and self-absorbed, and out for number one.
That said – I also believe that despite some possessing this flaw, the Jewish people as a whole, and frum people in particular, are the MOST concerned with others’ welfare, with doing chessed, giving tzedaka (because it is the righteous thing to do and not merely charity), and volunteering for hatzalah, chaverim, bikur cholim, more per capita, than any other group of people worldwide.
There is nothing wrong with loving oneself, as long as it does not hurt others, and is not to excess. There is a Tzelem Elokim in all of us, and it SHOULD be loved.
it may be a whole grain product and the brocha is Hoadama, or it may be ground and the brocha is Shehakol. To determine the brocha, one must look carefully at various flakes. If they have jagged edges, the surface of the flake is bumpy, it comes from a grit22 and the brocha is Hoadama. If the corn flakes are relatively smooth (very small bumps), and the edges are smoother, the corn flakes are from a more uniform pellet (made from corn flour) and the brocha is Shehakol. “
On a serious note, thank you for psoting this. It is really good information. Maybe it’s just easier to wash and make hamotzi.
Text it to 612BROCHOS, let’s see what they say (probably hoadomo because the ikkar is the corn). “
DY I TOTALLY got that. I have been known to be quite corny, in fact, I am notorious for that! Cerealously!
I wouldn’t want to stab someone EVER. It IS too gruesome. BTW, I believe that the injunction about shedding blood is why the church for centuries preferred to execute people by hanging or burning them to death, as no actual blood was technically being shed, so they could feel good about themselves during the execution. Just a little factoid, of no use to anyone. I feel better now…
Body parts that come in twos are feminine form. Body parts that are single (i.e. nose, mouth) are masculine form. So Hashem’s “Yad” kivyachol is a Yad Chazaka,(while some of us here might speak with a peh gadol) 😉
That’s not a credit to the English language, that’s a credit to how Rabbis Sherman and Zlotowitz responded to the fact that many people understand English. ”
And one could that precise argument as regards Yiddish in Europe a long time ago, BEFORE many Jews understood English. there is no difference from that standpoint, between the two languages. One is not holier than the other. It is only perceived that way (for understandable reasons).
Miritchka, your example is a good one. But in English, Bobby, Susie, Kathy, Davey, also fit your example, but no one frum names their kids those names as their JEWISH name. Hebrew is the Loshon that Am Yisroel received great credit for not changing, both in speaking and in naming their children. I personally feel that is as important today as it was then.
I am not chalilah criticizing anyone who names in Yiddish, but I also never understood why it continues to be done today, especially when the English language has made Torah even more universally accessible than Yiddish ever did. That Yiddish unifying factor, being the language spoken by all Eastern European Jewry, including the Gedolim of those generations, has always been cited to me as the major reason for naming in Yiddish. So how is English today, ANY different from that? No one has satisfactorily ever answered that question for me yet. And if anyone here can enlighten me, I would appreciate it very much (not looking to argue).
Most likely reason is the addition of sugar to the recipe, but I wonder if the chemical reaction of caramelization takes place from the apple’s natural fruit sugar, because of the heat of the oven, saucepan, etc. When you slowly saute sliced onions, for example, after about 20 minutes the onions give off their natural sugar (which you wouldn’t immediately taste if you bit into a raw onion), caramelizes the onions, and they become sweet and coffee-colored. Maybe the same process happens to the apples.
DY, what bracha are we supposed to make when confronted with a cereal killer (borei minei mezonos???) 🙂
We’re getting so off-topic. So Who is for killing the killer? Raise your hands, and let’s move on.
Rochel hid her father’s terafim to wean him of avodah zara, as chazal say, not for her family’s sake. They were about to sneak out. “
FTR, her father WAS her family, and she wanted to stop him from a life of spiritual depravity. I know she was about to leave. That was the point of her taking the idols away, so he would no longer have them. What is being referred to as nevuah, WAS nevuah, but do women not similarly have experiences that border on being “nevuah” today, because they have a better intuition and instinct than men?
I don’t know about any other women who post here, but I have personally experienced that intuition MANY times, B”H.
I think we have discussed this plenty, already. And Gamanit, I agree.