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And the day my 3 month old turns over while bundled and falls out of a cart that has walls 6 plus inches above him on all sides, I will rethink things. “
🙂 – that can and WILL happen with most normal kids at some point (BE”H never to yours). babies are notoriously never still! Six+ inches of wall space are really nothing, to a determined baby (and at six months would you feel the same as you do at three months?). Some motor skills develop unexpectedly quickly. Then watch out!!!!!
And even I (yes, I) had a couple of ER visits. My toddler (some 25 years ago) fell out of a locked storm door at my parents’ house, when the lock gave way in the door frame without warning, and the edge of the door clipped him in the forehead as it swung back. I was standing with him when it happened. He had been looking out the door, leaning on it, to watch squrrels in the back yard. The door had NEVER opened up like that. But as I said earlier, it’s always safe – until it isn’t. This is my youngest of five, and the very first time we had to go to an ER, an experience I never want to repeat with a child (or anyone, actually) again.
B”H regarding my neighbors, they are all fine, nice people, they just are too much of the “somchin al haneis” mentality when it comes to their children, in my subjective opinion and experience. I know they love their children, it is very obvious from akll their other interactions with the children. This is just one of those areas that concern me, as an old fogey. I can’t avoid seeing what goes on, and I also believe strongly in “lo suchal l’hisaleim.”
How did a Kohein Godol become appointed as such? Wasn’t it through the death of the previous one, or because he was not Tahor? Was there another way?
Sounds about right. Let’s go for it!
Safety is not a perception, it is a reality, but assessment of that reality is subjective as we are all human”
Syag, please believe me when I say I don’t disagree at all with most of what you posted. But just as you believe that some parents misperceive or misassess (is there such a word?)the safety of a situation, likewise so might you do so, and misjudge the safety of that same activity. I am not talkiong about climbing on monkey bars (which should still be done under supervision, but absolutely let ’em climb), or boys (and girls do, too) roughhousing at times, again under supervision, so nobody ends up with a broken nose, BE”H. Nevertheless, though we want out kids to be active and have fun, no one wants to be that parent whose child was perfectly ok doing dangerous things UNTIL IT WASN’T OK. You don’t want to learn by certain experiences.
My grandson who is kinehora about to be 19 months old, loves to climb up on things since he could walk, and does, but he also recemt;y discovered the ability and joy of lifting up toilet seat lids. Should he be allowed to a) go into the bathroom unsupervised and b)climb up on the toilet, whether the lid is down or not? But maybe we are squelching his sense of discovery and adventure!! I am perfectly willing to squelch that particular adventure.
There are certain things that are inherently dangerous to and for kids, and putting a squirmy child in a top part of a cart could possibly turn out to be one of those things, as the child turns over and falls out when the mom’s back and attentions are turned to something other than the baby. It was perfectly OK – until it wasn’t. I don’t believe that is being overly cautious, however if you do think so, I totally respect your right to feel that way, especially if you are extra careful with your child.
I can tell you from my own experience, that I have never judged my neighbors unfairly, having (either my husband or myself personally)saved at least four of their children from running into oncoming traffic, getting lost blocks away from their home, and/or falling down their outside staircase as they ride their tricycles on Shabbos unsupervised. And I am speaking of toddlers, some as young as 18 months. I guess that has predisposed me “to judge unfairly.”
But I see what I see, and it scares me as a mother and loving grandmother, that there are people who are truly nice people, but are clueless as to how dangerous some of the things they let their do, actually are. And I have not even discussed the HALF of it.
NotaSheep, nice to hear from someone in my kids’ age range. There is something to be said for old-fashioned. And while I respect Little Froggie’s view, it is wrong to believe in live and let live when it comes to child safety and especially infant safety.
Maybe I am a little more sensitive to this because I see my very nice and kind neighbors being totally unwatchful of ANY of their children, including their VERY young toddlers. I have described this before, so i won’t go into it again, but I see an emergent pattern whereby present-day parents somehow do not fear the consequences of their laissez-faire attitude in child-rearing. I actually had a mother say to me one time (no safety gate by steep steps), “So if he falls down the stairs the first time, he will learn not to go near the top of the stairs again.” SERIOUSLY??????????????? Are people so cavalier and STUPID, not to mention foolishly trusting in some “Baby Malach” that they believe that nonsense? How many trips to the ER (or worse, chalilah) do they need, to learn that maybe their way of thinking is the problem?
Hashem Gives us the matana of a precious baby, and we cannot be bothered to ensure its safety, by taking reasonable and seicheldig precautions with them? I am sorry, but I subscribe to a different publication. Call me old-fashioned. It’s a compliment from where I am sitting.
WIY – OY!
AS I read these “shopping cart” responses, I wonder if it’s a generational thing, that the older CR members are more disturbed about this than some younger ones. Any thoughts about this?
An equally disturbing sight is a young mother with a stroller and two small kids in row jaywalking mid block on 13ave in Boro Park”
Totally right.
There are color-coded key covers you can get in most variety stores or locksmith stores The key fits in through a hole in the cover and then stretches to fit around its head. But until you find them, you can use nail polish of different colors (if you have any) and simply paint a different color on each head of the keys. It lasts a long time.
The muni meters are much worse. What are people supposed to do when they have to get out of the car, possibly in very bad weather, look for a WORKING muni meter, figure out how to use it (yes, they sometimes work differently from each other), then go all the way BACK to the car, possibly with little children in tow, because you cannot leave little kids in a car, alone, and put the stupid slip in the windshield. What if the person has severe osteo-arthritis and every unnecessary step is painful? And I cannot tell you how many times these muni meters have been out of order, and we have had to go from one end of the parking lot to another, to find one that is working. Off my soap box, now…
I still would not do this, as the temptation to put things in the cart with the baby would be too great (and clearly the mom did exactly that). I have never seen the type cart you are describing, but I still don’t think it’s a great way to shop, and not fair to the baby who is indoors all bundled up (and if the baby is NOT bundled, he or she could get hurt by the hard sides of the cart when jostled). I understand the point you are making, but I don’t think this is a good thing to do.
i think some posters are visualizing ‘the top part’ of the shopping cart as the place for toddlers to tosit with their feet hanging forward out”
That’s the only type I know of. And if there is a two-level shopping cart, avadeh, it is not the place to put a baby unrestrained safely. IMO, of course.
oomis, not to argue the point, but I am still not sure what you are visualizing. A 3-5 month old baby wrapped in a blanket can lay down snuggly in this space with walls on ALL sides coming up a good 6 inches around him and space on all sides. Whether you would place him there or not, I am not sure what about it seems so misguided. “
SYAG, babies of that age and size are VERY wriggly and totally unpredictable. The space is really not all that large, unless they are SITTING up with their feet extended across the width of that space (which sounds very uncomfrotable to me as I viaualize it). I would not rely on a child to stay put, and they would not stay put if they are awake, as it is a very cramped area in which to be stuck. And to put something ON TOP of the baby????????? OY!.
I was actually just reading an article that recommended this position”
Not with a three to five month old infant. Sorry. Anyone who recommended that is misguided, IMO.
If your child is not driving, they have no right to add her to the insurance. YOU have th obligation to notify the insurance Co. if you have another licensed driver, but it is not automatic that they MUST add the driver to your policy. Suppose she had her OWN policy? In your case, she is not driving at all. They have to be concerned ONLY with the actual drivers in your family.
I have such a situation in my household. The insurance company is aware that there are five LICENSED drivers in my house, but only four of them drive. We are NOT charged for the fifth. If she would drive and have an accident, they would have the right to refuse to pay, but they do not charge if she is not on my policy.
Oomis – the car seat is actually made to clip onto the upper part of the shopping cart. I didn’t feel safe doing that though, I didn’t like the distance from the floor. I also don’t like seeing kids spend hours in their carseats, moving from place to place but never actually being moved. It is very unhealthy but because they keep changing environments the parents don’t always realize they have been stuck in one position for so long.
P.S. nice to meet another Ema, most are Imas. “
I agree, it’s not safe, or a particularly good idea altogether.
And ditto on the “Ema” part. My five year old greanddaughter started to refer to me as Ema when she was two, because that’s what she heard her mother calling me. I kept correcting her and saying, “Bubby,” but she was insistent on saying Ema. After a gazillion times of my saying Bubby to her her, she looked at me with a mischievous twinkle in her eye and said, “BubbyEMA!” We both broke out laughing, and she only called me Bubby after that. She KNEW exactly what she was doing!
As to this whole issue of helping the mother: to be fair, shoppers are there to shop. It is not always practical or even possible to stop what you are doing to help another shopper who should have used better sense to begin with. If help CAN be offered, it absolutely should be, but it is not always something that can be done (maybe you have your own children or grandchildren with you). And what if there are more than the one overloaded shopper with babies in tow? Are we supposed to drop everything and do their shopping or cart-pushing for ALL of them? That is neither practical nor reasonable. And what’s worse, I would end up feeling GUILTY for not helping (when I couldn’t), even though that too, would be unfair and unreasonable, because it is not in our control.
In this one specific instance perhaps help could have been offered, but in the final analysis, some women need a better plan for shopping excursions, that do not include putting their infants in this type of situation. There is ALWAYS another way to handle the shopping issue, unless the woman is a single mom with no friends or family members to help. If she has an able-bodied husband, then it is his responsibility to either do the shopping when he has a break, or watch the baby while the wife shops.
golfer – I agree with you and Oomis but I am not understanding how this set up isn’t safe. It is much safer than perching a car seat on top of a bar on a cart facing 4 feet of nothingness. I must be visualizing something very different than you are. “
Golfer, thank you very much for your very kind words in the other post. And yes, I am Ema to my kids.
SYAG: of COURSE you don’t put the car seat across the top! It can ONLY fit inside the wagon (which is what I did at times, with my child’s snowsuit unzipped,the hat and mittens off, and facing me, so the baby could see me, if he or she was awake. But they never went into the front raised seat part until they were old enough to sit upright without sliding sideways. I also brought along a safety harness when I went shopping, to strap them in securely, once they did sit up front. All it takes is ONE SECOND for a child to maneuver the body enough to fall out, while the mom is chatting with a friend, ro reading a food label.
I tried very hard to avoid having to go shopping with my babies altogether. That is not avoidable for many parents, so it really is best if they either go together and one carries (or strolls with) or stays in the car with the baby, or stays home while the other parent shops. I didn’t drive for a long time, so my husband and I went together, and he took the baby in the stroller or I used the Snugli carrier.
I understand how hard it is, but I see dumb things being done all the time by parents. I’ve seen babies in their strollers left alone outside a store, 18 month old infants walking alone blocks from their home, because no one was watching them, kids allowed to stand up in the backseat of the moving family car (this was before the car seat and seatbelt laws were in effect), parents feeding 2 year olds hot dogs and popcorn or whole grapes. You get the picture. Parents do a lot of foolish and sometimes potentially deadly things with their babies. And nebbich, sometimes the babies pay the price for their parents’ actions. I daven for Hashem to protect ALL children from the consequences of such careless and reckless behavior.
The elite is defined by who or what “the people” are striving to get”
Well, I guess my problem with this idea is the fact that I question the implication that a majority of frum Jews are striving for this. Who are “the people” to whom you refer? Not every frum Yid is Yeshivish frum, not all Yeshivish frum people want to necessarily redt shidduchim to boys who want solely to learn all day and not be mefarneis their wives and children (and they don’t consider them to be the “elite”), and not all Jewish people are frum altogether.
Dunkin’ Donuts
DD
DDS
root canal
I don’t need to know the circumstances. Shopping carts are not meant for the safety of an infant. The part the baby was put into, is an especially not safe place for an infant of that age. A baby that cannot sit up more or less by him/herself should not ever be placed in a ahopping cart in that fashion. If the baby is put into the wagon part, he or she should be in a car seat. BUCKLED in.
Please do not cry to me about the poor tired mommy who was up all night (really – at 3-5 months most babies are sleeping pretty well at night). But even if not – I WAS that poor, tired mommy, several times over, and I never did what was described here. Either one gets a sitter, or waits for another adult to either do the shopping or take one shopping and push a stroller, or carry the baby in a Bjorn or Snugli carrier, as I did with my infants. NEVER put even soft items on top of an infant who is in a small confined space. And if a baby is crying, for Heaven’s sake TAKE CARE OF THE BABY! This is not rocket science.
One weird thing about fairy tales is the recurring theme of men promising away the youngest thing in there homes in exchange for something and arriving home and finding out that they have a son.”
To which fairytale do you refer? I know of those (like Rumplestiltskin) where the WIFE promises her firstborn to the little man, but at the (senior) moment I cannot think of even one like you suggest.
Perhaps l’havdil eleph alphei havdalos, they got this idea from the story of Yiftach.
and buy only kosher food (we do not have kosher dishes). “
How wonderful that you are taking even the “baby steps.” Each step is worth the effort. Is it possible in your household for you to cook your own food with separate pots and utensils, and serve it with disposable silverware and paper goods? If you already have kosher food available, it’s not so big a leap to using kosher utensils for yourself, so maybe your family would get on the bandwagon with you. If not, speak to a Rov as to how you could use your oven in a kosher way (i.e. double wrapping your pans first), whether that would be permissible to you, given your circumstance. Or perhaps you could get yourself two inexpensive toaster ovens one each for dairy and meat. In either case, don’t give up. You are motivated, and it is praiseworthy of you.
so I’ll look past the personal thrust of your responses to me”
I am sorry Squeak, if you feel that I am somehow personally admonishing you in some way (or whatever word fits your reaction to what I wrote). I am NOT attacking you in any way. I disagree with your opinion that boys learning all day are the ELITE of Yiddishkeit, unless that is NOT your opinion, but merely your own observation that there ARE people who actually feel this way, in which case it is they with whom I strongly disagree. A boy who can learn AND earn a living, is more elite in my estimation. That’s all. But if I hurt your feelings in some unintended manner, I am sorry.
You cannot go wrong with Mesillas Yesharim, but I would also look for works by Rav Lopian, Rav Schmulevitz, and Rav Dessler. I go to a Sunday morning Hashkafa shiur that my Rov gives, and we cover works by the latter three. This year we are learning something by Rav Shmulevitz.
For one reason above all else, I appreciate wherever there is an eruv. A Yid who is frei may be a mechalleil Shabbos, but in a town where there is an eruv and he is carrying, that is still ONE LESS aveira that he is committing that day. I am not joking.
TURMERIC belongs on cauliflower. Yum, (but just a little goes a long, long way). Add some salt.
The Goq, you actually stole my thunder. That is PRECISELY how I tell over the story to my grandchildren, because I don’t like scary fairytales. In my version, I also have Goldy Lox ask the bears and her mommy to forgive her for a) not listening to mommy, and b)taking things without permission. I have been knonw to tell my older grandchildren that she also did something bad to go eat something without first knowing if it was kosher. I’m just sayin’…
I never liked Col. Mustard. He always came across as a seedy guy.”
Nah, they just court-martialed him because he went AWOL because he was yellow.
Ketchup does not belong on lemon meringue pie. It could, however, go nicely on a mozzarella cheese pie.
The ikker is he is safe. And that is all. This is for his family to know about. B”H the story has a happy ending.
I take challah after the first rising, before I shape the loaves.
oomis, I dont mean to be offensive but your retorts sound like a kid complaining about how unfair and cliquey of her classmates are. Whether its subjective or objective, right or wrong, fair or no, it is the way it is. The cool kids are the cool kids, and the elites are elite. Accept it or find a way to fix it. “
I am not complaining about how unfair ANYTHING is. I don’t believe that it is axiomatic that a boy learning all day is better than one who learns part of the day and works (or is being educated towards a parnassah) the rest of the day. I would argue that it is VERY elite nowadays to be a boy who does it all. It is snobbish to believe that a boy sitting in the Beis Nedrash all day, is finer (read: therefore more desirable as a shidduch) than one who manages to earn AND learn. BTW, there is a difference in meaning between being elite and being “elitist.” The latter is not always a flattering description.
And Squeak, anything that is “the way it is” and probably should not be, because it is hurting a significant segment of a society, ultimately needs to be changed in SOME manner. Otherwise our country leaders would be elected solely by men, some of us would still be picking cotton in the South, and Kollel boys would not have the luxury of learning all day on someone else’s cheshbon, because their wives would for the most part be home raising their children.
Lots of things are “the way” they are. That doesn’t mean they should STAY that way. There was a time when girls did not routinely attend elementary school and high school Yeshivahs, much less Seminary! My mother and my father’s sisters were the children of Rabbonim. The girls ALL attended public school. The boys went to yeshivah. Would you argue that this should have remained the status quo?
You have grown up with a certain mindset, that causes you to see things as either/or, according to what I am reading in your posts. I do not agree that the “either” OR the “or” are correct, just because they exist. However, what you choose for yourself is YOUR choice. I would just like to see more balanced choices available for frum people like yourself who DO recognize that there is chashivus to earning a living for one’s wife and children.
DY, good rejoinder. I agree with you.
Change the system or adapt to it. But your current view is only going to hurt you.”
I vote to change it. Trying to adapt to it, has hurt many young people who are just not succeeding in that system in its present form. Likewise, it has hurt the parents of the girls in that system, as they have no golden years to look forward to, because they are too busy trying to support their sons-in-law and daughters, who should have long since been making their OWN way in life. And who will support the NEXT generation of learners, whose own fathers have no financial backing to give them, because they never learned a trade to earn the kind of parnassah that allowed THEM to sit and learn all day.
It is not an either/or situation. There has to be a fundamental compromise, or I predict we will see more and more problems in the next twenty to thirty years.
I love balsamic vinegar in sweet salads. Most cole slaw IS on the sweet side, so I would try it, in the absence of other vinegar. Plain white is the best bet.
WOW, what a lovely tribute!
So Elite is not a judgement on my part, rather an objective result of a democratic process”
Sorry, but in my humble opinion, there ain’t nuthin’ objective OR Democratic about this process, whatsoEVER. By its very nature, this is a most SUBjective and autocratic process.
“… so obviously somone who wants to learn full time is first class”
Would that this statement were true! I know a sad number of boys who are anything BUT first class, but they are all in Yeshivah full time. First class is in the middos of a person. Derech Eretz kadma l’Torah. Just because someone is learning, does not make him automatically FC. It makes him a full time learner, and he does get props for THAT, though.
You can skip the celery seed, if you can’t find it. Try the spice section, though, there should be dried celery seed there. Wine vinegar has a specific flavor, but other types wouold probably work, too. What about Balsamic Vinegar? Regular vinegar works in most cole slaw recipes.
I hope by the time we are reading this, that he is safely home.
BoysWork, you speak like someone in my age demographic (I agree with you). I don’t personally like to use words like nonsense and brainwashing when it comes to talking about a Makom Torah, but I can feel the emotion behind what you are saying, and I do agree that not everyone is right for or should be expected to go to Kollel.
Most Seminaries and Yeshivos DO push the glories of the Kollel life on their students, when the reality is that in spite of the spiritual rewards, sometimes it IS extremely difficult and even disillusioning for many young women. That is not to denigrate the Kollel, and there are many bochurim who SHOULD remain in learning. But not ALL of them belong, and NOT belonging does not make a boy any less worthy than his Kollel counterpart. For every Yissachar there HAS to be a Zevulun, who received the same reward as his learning brother,simply for being mechazeik Torah learning.
+1
Hence my comment to go after working girls”
See, I KNEW you did not realize how you sounded, and it was not intentional on your part. You referred to working girls as “setting your sights LOWER” (my emphasis)and that was an extremely disrespectful thing to say about “working” girls, who as I pointed out ARE in fact the ones that these Kollel boys are marrying anyway, no?
ALL girls who choose to marry learning boys, must of necessity go out to earn the parnassah. SOMEONE has to. Maybe, following your logic and choice of language, these girls should set their sights “higher” and look for emesdig Torah boys who have a plan to earn a real living, and not look at that as a negative. When did “b’zayas apecha totzi lechem” become assur?
I think it’s time for ALL shadchanim to amend their priorities and realize that things are just not working out so well anymore, based on how they are redting shidduchim. The first and most important thing to look at, is the boy right for the girl in most of the important ways that make marriages strong, and then look at the learning issue. A good boy or girl is a good boy or girl.
Thanks guys for the tips. Still looking for a good vegetable side dish. Something SIMPLE.
Steam a package of French cut string beans, toast some slivered almonds for a few minutes in the oven til golden brown, toss with the beans, with some garlic salt and a little nutmeg (not too heavy, you need to taste-test). You can toss with a little olive oil too, if you like.
Interjection, that sounds SO interesting.
It’s really hard to give advice, not knowing what happened here. Let me say this, as the person who broke off a 10 year friendship with someone who hurt my family and me deeply, publicly, and without reason, some hurts cannot be repaired. Fact of life. Sometimes “sorry” is not enough. If you have tried sincerely to set things right, perhaps written more than one letter (NOT
E-MAIL), acknowledged what you did wrong and asked for forgiveness, that is all you can do. You may have to accept that this girl will never want to be friends again. If that is the case, learn a valuable lesson from what happened, and resolve to not make the same mistake a second time.
I feel sad for the pain you must be feeling right now, but try to think of the level of pain you may have unintentionally caused the other girl, for her to not be quite ready to forgive you or speak to you. It’s not about you and how you feel, at this point. And if her mom is involved, she may be giving her “chizuk” to avoid you, probably with all the best of intentions, wanting to protect her child from further hurt at your hands. I don’t mean to sound judgmental. I can see that you feel great regret, and that is to your credit. But as I said, sometimes sorry is just not enough.
I hope you can work things out with her, but if for whatever reason, that is not in the cards, at least please understand that we all have to be really careful about what we say and do, because there are sometimes permanent ramifications as a result of them. And then, move on. Let some time pass, and try to approach her again, when she has had some time to cool down a little. She might miss you, too.
Hatzlacha rabbah
rebyidd23
Great advice, so much for kabeid es avicha vees imecha. I think Hashem disagrees slightly.”
Not to argue, WIY, but isn’t there an exception in some cases, when it comes to shidduchim? If not, then there are a LOT of boys who would never get married, because NO girl is good enough for them, according to their mommies.
One angle of approach to alleviate the tragedy of agunas is to strengthen marriages and reduce separations.”
I would agree 100% were it not for the fact that unfortunately in too many cases,though not all, the type of man who would refuse (as per halachic mandate) to give his wife a GET, is probably not the safest bet for strengthening that marriage.
the fathers that are my age were all Torah Vodaas types that went to college at night, and kept sedarim after they started working”
So was my father Z”L, and he was a great Talmid Chochom. He never missed a day of learning, but worked full time since he was a young man.
The only thing I really do not like to see with ketchup (of the types of foods that normally require some type of savory condiment), I cannot abide ketchup on a hot dog. ONLY MUSTARD IS k’halacha.
Feif Un – I personally hope you do not follow through to leaving this blog. The only way there is balance and discussion here, is when we have diverse viewpoints. I disagree with many things that are said in the CR, and I am certain many people have (GASP!) had the chutzpah (JK) to disagree with me, as well. But we all have something to contribute. Otherwise it is just a monologue.
I consider myself MO machmir, but still MO, and I do not hold by Rabbi Weiss. Neither do I seek to criticize him, as it is not for me to do so. More learned minds than I will ever have, have said he has crossed certain religious boundaries. That is their assessment, and they have the right to express that assessment.
Please re-consider. I will miss your posts, which most often, contain well-expressed and intelligent points. I agree that perhaps it is better to avoid certain issues, when we know in advance they will push our buttons.