oomis

This would depend on whose car it was. If someone was doing you a favor to take you and your husband home, as you described. I would hesitate to tell someone when I am NOT in my own car what to do. That being said, if I really was nauseous, I would have spoken up. I am sure the lady would not have wanted you to be throwing up all over her and her sandwich.

He did not murder that girl. What he did was worse. he ALLOWED her to die a terrifying death. I think that it was ascertained that she lived for a sufficient amount of time, that had he called for help immediately, she could have survived drowning, because she did not drown right away. His delay was what caused her death. I am not sure one can be prosecuted for delaying in helping someone. He clearly DID show a reckless and depraved indifference to life, and he was covering himself. While I definitely feel bad for Mary Jo Kopechnie, she knew what she was getting into when she went with Teddy. Monica Lewinsky was really lucky that ALL she got was a stained dress. Somehow, women associated illicitly with Kennedy men seem to end up dead.

Kalla b’lo bracha asura lebaala kenida (kesubos). Also any unmarried woman is assumed to be a nida which is an erva d’oraisa. Note that yichud is prohibited and has the severity of yichud d’oraisa due to her being a nida.

Thanks, Geshmakenstein.

“Perhaps oomis1105 can be kind enough to the unlettered among us & cite a source for the contention that R’ Yossi was specifically known for his opinion on the conduct between man and woman?”

I can’t cite a source, because I do not learn Gemarah. I was telling over something I was taught in Yeshivah, while learning Pikei Avos. I was taught that a Rov in Pirkei Avos Perek Aleph Mishnah 5, (whose name is Rabbi Yosi Ben Yochanan,and described as an Ish Yerushalayim) taught, “V’al tarbeh sicha im isha,” don’t converse excessively with a woman. My teacher THEN recounted the story with Beruriah, whom I was told gave mussar to that Rabbi for talking excessively to her when ansking for directions. I, by the way, am NOT the person who said it was R’ Yosi HaGlili. I did not mention any name but Beruriah’s. If I mis-posted any part of the story, I apologize, but it is how it was presented to me in Yeshivah that the person to whom she was giving mussar was well-knwon for having personal views about brevity of speech with a woman.

“Look at it this way. This site is purportedly kosher. And look what kind of non-Torahdik ideas are propagated here, all in the name of Judaism.

If this place is this bad, what place could be good?”

And yet, nonetheless here you are, reading and posting on this site in SPITE of that!

You still can’t compliment your date even though she’s your kallah because she’s still an ervah to you.

1) Shok b’isha erva

2) Kol b”isha erva

2) Sei’ar b’ish erva

This is the first time I have ever heard my life that being a kallah is an erva.

I haven’t read this book, so I cannot intelligently comment on it, but having said that, anyone can write a book about anything, including a rabbi. Could someone please educate me as to the makor for a kallah being erva(not just the totally correct idea that a chosson and kallah have to be extra careful not to get caught up in hormones and emotions, which could lead them to be nichshal, but an actual makor that says the kallah is erva).

“oomis1105 is misquoting the gemara in eruvin 42b, it does not say that Bruria’s claim was that R’ Yossi haGlili was hypocritical but rather that the Chazal say not to speak excessively with women. It is true for everyone”

I don’t believe I used the expression “hypocritical,” that was your word. I said she CHIDED him, she gave him mussar, and that is exactly what she did. The mussar in and of itself was specifically because he was KNOWN for his stance on not speaking too much with women. Had it been another Rov asking for directions, I do not believe her response would have been the same.

This, however, is a digression from the original point that I was making, which was that specific rabbanim have personal hashkafos and biases (to which they are most certainly entitled, without question), but sometimes those personal hashkafos and NOT the metzius of the halacha cause them to express certain ideas that are not well-received. It is a foolish chosson indeed, who does not compliment the woman to whom he is engaged, and most especially so, if he is doing that because a rov wrote a sefer telling him to act that way. It is human nature to want to hear sincere compliments from the person who loves you. It’s good for one’s self-esteem, and and it shows that the other person appreciates you, or notices the pains you might have taken to look nice, make a nice meal, raise great children, etc. If one has not learned how to do this before getting married, he will not spontaneously be doing it afterward, either. The whole point of dating, besides the obvious inyan of finding one’s future spouse, is to teach our young people how to interrelate with someone of the opposite sex. How to be mannerly, how to talk nicely (and mean what one says), how to make the other person feel special, and how to learn what is important to oneself – these are all aspects of dating. Giving and graciously receiving a SINCERE compliment is an important social skill. Just my opinion.

If you have a pool table in your own home, you have control over who is playing with it. In a pool hall, you have people who are probably not wever going to be on your invitation list, coming in , smoking, drinking, cursing, etc. and our kids do not need to see this.

I have a nice story to tell, with a middah k’neged middah ending, as well as a Kiddush Ha-Shem. My husband an I were coming home from Brooklyn to the Rockaway/Five Towns area, it was late that night and we were exhausted. We were driving through the Rockaways, and while in Arverne, we were honked by some black ladies who were lost. They were trying to get to Queens via the Van Wyck Espressway, and had gone totally out of their way and had no idea where they were. We tried to explain how to get there, but they were just befuddled, so tired as we were, we told them to follow us, and we drove all the way to the approach to the Van Wyck. The women could not have been more appreciative, and with my husband wearing a yarmulke, it was obvious we were religious Jews.

Fast forward a few weeks – my husband took my son to a long-awaited ball game at Yankee Stadium. They got out rather late, and despite having been told how to get home, they took a wrong turn and ended up in Nowheresville. They had no idea where they were, no GPS, and it was late and a creepy neighborhood somewhere in the Bronx. Finally, someone from that neck of the woods drove by and my husband honked the driver and asked for directions back towards Kennedy Airport. The man started to explain, but it wasn’t clear exactly how to get onto the right road. So the man said, “OK, just follow me, and I’ll get you to the road you need.” He drove ahead of my husband and son for about 15 minutes or so, and then showed them the signs leading to the road they needed to be on.

In both instances, neither party looked at color, or religion, or monetary reward. They each saw someone in trouble, and went a literal extras mile or miles in order to help them. the fact that my family was helped in the exact manner in which we had helped someone else, gives me great chizuk.

Guys should ALWAYS walk the girl to her door. It is simple good manners and a safety issue as well, for many young women. Bowling is fun, can be a real ice-breaker (especially the horrid way I bowl, which was always good for a few laughs), but I think in general,with few exceptions, a pool hall is not the best place for a frum couple to go. Many of them are known hangouts where a great deal of drinking is going on, as well as inappropriate language and smoking. there are better places to go.

The issue of sharing food is a dicey one, since it is considered so intimate an action, that it is a hilchos niddah issue. I do think that if a specific dish is ordered at dinner, such as a pupu platter or chummus platter, dishes which are designed to be shared, that it could be less problematic for one who is concerned about it.

As to complimenting on a date – well, there are compliments, and then there are COMPLIMENTS. Telling a date he or she “looks nice,” is not the same thing as saying, “WOW! You look HOT!” The former is a simple and thoughtful thing to say, the latter, however, is best said (if that expression is used at all) to one’s spouse, if one is so inclined, when not during a niddah time. I do get annoyed when I hear that a girl got all angry at her date for having told her she looks nice. Someone posted something liek that in The Jewish Press some time ago, and I thought the girl got all bent out of shape over nothing. She should have been appreciative of the fact that the guy realized the effort she had made to look attractive on the date. the only proper response, is a simple THANK YOU!

If the date is going really badly, I don’t think there is anything wrong with pleasing a headache, not in a nasty way, though, and asking to go home a little early. Still, if it just is a matter that it is not clicking, I think everyone should give a date a real chance. In my opinion, however, it is wrong to get a guy to spend a lot of money first and THEN decide to have a headache. My daughter has been on several dates with different fellows who were not for her for wahtever reason. She nonetheless was an interested and interesting conversationalist, a polite and friendly person, and no guy could ever say he had a bad date when he was with her, even if it was not the right shidduch for either of them.

OldBar makes some very salient points. Yeshivahs are falling short and dropping the ball when it comes to educating children of ALL ages. How can they tell a bochur not to smoke, when their Rebbie is probably lighting up in front of them? In my children’s Yeshivahs the administrators took the plunge and courses were given each year about the dangers of alcohol, tobacco, inappropriate behavior, STDs, illicit drugs, and eating disorders, which are sadly extremely prevalent in the frum community in recent years, partly due to the fact that more and more girls think if they are not a size 2, they won’t get married, and that is because of bochurim who ONLY want a size 2 trophy wife.

We don’t address the drug issue more prominently out of fear that <“If anyone finds out, it will hurt our other children’s chances for a shidduch.” That may be so, but if something is not done, it will hurt that child’s chances to grow up and live his or her life. I know of kids in my community who have died because of drug abuse. They were not trying to kill themselves, but it still happened, nebbich. How do you think their parents feel, knowing that if they would have had a non-judgmental place to turn and better information, maybe their sons would still be alive?

“This may end up in a chilul hashem, i dont think this should be discussed in a public forum that people can and will take it in the wrong way. This may also be considered loshon haa against the some “frum” or “jewish” people. Im not a rov but just a thought.”

It is well-intentioned people like you who prevent kids who need help from getting the help they need. YOu call informing the public about this very real problem “loshon hara”

(YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG), when in fact it is a matter of pikuach nefesh. By making the frum public aware of this tragedy within our communities ALL over, we can educate the families to look for the signs of drug abuse, and help their kids. The chilul Ha-Shem is in throwing these kids away. You are actually worried peopel will take it the “wrong way?????” Is there a right way???? There is only one way – and that is the way that leads to hatzolas nefoshos. I pity anyone who refuses to acknowledge that this problem may even exist in his OWN family, chas v’sholom. NO one is immune.

I am a mom who feels that my work in caring for my family is very holy. Having said that, considering WHO it is (for the most part) who is home with the children, helping them with their homework, studying with them for their tests in limudei kodesh, those mothers had BETTER know their chumash and navi. Most fathers are NOT as involved with their children in this regard, whether because of work hours or hours spent in the Beis Medrash after work. It is a really good thing that the mothers are well-educated, so that at least one parent is helping them.

Any frum Jew who says there is NO drug problem in the frum community, either has blinders on or is in serious denial. Before we talk about illicit drugs, there is a huge problem with the abuse of such drugs as nicotine and alcohol. There are too many Yeshivah boys who smoke and drink. Now on to the illegal drugs – it would be genuine naivete to deny that the frum community has its share of pot smokers and pill poppers, as well as harder stuff. I tragically know of young people in my community who have died because of their drug abuse. And it isn’t just in the “modern” Yeshivahs. It is ACROSS THE BOARD. It is our dirty laundry, and unfortunately, it is getting aired more and more often nowadays.

Jo-Jo what you are noting is unfortuately prevalent everywhere, from the most modern Orthodox Shuls, to the most chareidi of Yeshivah or Chassidic minyanim. Children, in general, are being brought up without being taught simple good manners, with a sense of entitlement (like their parents before them). They run around in Shul, disturbing people who are davening, without any control. When an adult admonishes them, they make faces, speak disrespectfully, and go on with whatever they were doing. Had I done such things, my parents would have been embarrassed and taken appropriate steps to correct my behavior. But they never had to, because they taught me how to behave, and showed me by their own example of good behavior in or out of shul. that is not happening today, all too often. Although I do somewhat question the wisdom of bedavka going to sit down at a table clearly populated by 10-12 boys (was it a Bar-Mitzvah? were there any other seats available?), still, the boys were out of line to speak disrespectfully to you.

Sometimes I feel we should go over to the parents of such boys (though not at someone’s simcha), and mention to them very casually, what happened. They may be unaware (many parents make themselves “nisht vissendik” about these things.

Our Tzelem Elokim is our Neshoma. Ha-Shem has no corporeal form, so our concept of average, whioh is referring to a corporeal aspect, is not applicable. Ha-Shem gives each of us specific talents, abilities, challenges, and a tafkid or purpose in life. Perhaps it is the purpose of one person to be a healer, another to be a gadol hador, another to create beautiful music or art, another to teach, etc. Perhaps it is the tafkid of one to be average or less than average, in order to teach us certain middos of hwo to relate to each other in spite of our differences. If we were all brilliant and talented, there would be no concept of average, or rather THAT would become the average.

Easier than easy – pour some teriyaki sesame marinade sauce over the tuna or salmon steaks and then bake covered at 350 degrees until the fish flakes easily.

“oomis – Proper tzinius dress in the summertime is the same as in the wintertime. Additionally, I think you can be very confident that our Emahos covered their legs.”

I never said they didn’t cover their legs (kindly re-read what I wrote). They apparently wore long robes or dresses to the ground(as was the style in that region of the world for most women) which do cover the legs entirely. That does not mean however, that they wore STOCKINGS or even socks. And to respond to the comment made by Head in the Sand, Michal dared to give Tochacha to THE KING (she was out of line to do so) out of the misguided concern that he was belittling the malchus. From all I have been taught in Yeshivah, she erred. And she was punished for not showing proper kovod hamelech. And I would never dream of being motzi shem ra on anyone, much less your great-grandmother! It is not for you to decide if I gave up my Olam Haba for comfort. If so chas v’sholom, I will be in very good company with some very choshuvah women, rebbetzins, baalos chesed, and oskei tzorchei tzibur, who like me do not wear socks in the heat, though we cover up otherwise. As to the grape leaves remark – please remember that Ha-Shem’s concept of human tznius originally entailed the wearing of NO clothing. The unclothed body is not inherently untzniusdig. It was the AVEIRA of Chava and Odom that changed those dynamics forever.

Instead of trying to prove to me how choshuv it is for ankles to be covered up, why can we not agree that there is a machlokess on this very subject, the Chazon Ish was machmir in his views, and the Mishnah Berurah does not necessarily agree with his sevara. I am not arguing with you, because I respect your right to follow that derech. I follow a different Rov’s opinion and ailu v’ailu divrei Elokim Chayim.

I have total respect for any woman (AND MAN) who dress b’tznius, as they understand the concept and as their rabbonim teach them. The danger lies in your deciding that your understanding or your rebbe’s/yeshivah’s understanding is the ONLY correct view, and therefore anyone who does not adhere to that view is not “frum enough.” There are people who have committed terrible chilulei Ha-Shem in their zealous attempt to bend the world to their religious observance. I am just saying that there are shivim panim l’Torah, and maybe someone else’s view is as valid as yours, though you probably do not see it that way.

yoshi – great post.

– how about the boys that try to open your doors when you stop at stop signs or red lights — one boy kept knocking on my window, finally, I rolled the window down and asked whose lap would he like to sit on.

It was a great post. I had a similar experience recently. A teenage boy clearly frum, knocked on my window as I was stopped at a light. He asked me for a ride into town. The ride totally was on my way and if it were an emergency I would have driven out of my way as well, and he looked familiar to me from the neighborhood, though I didn’t know him. I gave him the ride to a store five minutes or so away, but on the way I said to him that I thought he had taken a very big chance stopping a stranger and asking for a ride (I had, too, for that matter). He replied that he picks his rides very carefully. I told him ax murderers come in all sizes and appearances. Just ask the girl who survived Ted Bundy.

While it is true that Batei Din exist, unfortunately as anyone who has been forced to take someone to Beis Din has found out, it is very hard to get satisfaction from the experience. My husband after much anguish, made the decision to take his Yeshivah employers to BD for owing him over $2,200. He had not been paid his salary in months, but being a dedicated teacher, continued to work, believing the lies he was told. Finally when he respectfully requested that he be paid the several months’ back pay, he was issued three post-dated checks. They were written against an account that had NO money in it. That was what put him in the mode of going to Beis Din.

While the BD acknowledged in their p’sak that he was totally right and owed the money, a very simple decision to reach, they had no power to compel the Yeshivah to do the right thing. The yeshivah pled poverty and “agreed” to pay him ONLY half the amount owed, over the course of the year, and he should eat the rest of it. My husband was owed more than 4 times the amount they offered, and he refused to take the money. He had no reason to trust those checks would not bounce also. He also was not letting them feel they were now off the hook, so to speak, to ease their conscience that they paid him, when in fact they were saying,”we know we owe you, but we only want to pay you half.” As I said in my other post, there is a din v’cheshbon after 120 years, and the people who did this will have to explain to Ha-Shem how they could be so dishonest as to issue three checks to someone, knowing their were absolutely worthless. My husband did his job well, in spite of not being paid. I am saddened to see history repeat itself 20 years later with my daughter being shafted in the same manner.

As to the person who has made the comment that we are motzi shem ra on these mosdos – well, that is specifically why I have not mentioned their names. But truthfully, you are castigating the wrong people here (and in doing so, are guilty yourself of a form of lashon hara), with all due respect. The ganavim, the liars, the fraudulent employees of these Mosdos – THOSE are the people to whom you ought to be directing your remarks and mussar. All any of us has done is bring to light the fact that having a certain amount of power can be corrupting,and just because a person has the title Rabbi or Principal, does not exempt that person from mitzvos bein adam l’chaveiro.

When a person promises a salary and then fails to pay it, he is oveir on SO many lahvim, that one would think that a truly “frum” person would be quaking in his boots. It also breeds ill will towards these mosdos and towards frumkeit altogether, to tell someone basically that this is G-d’s Will for him to suffer. EVERYTHING is G-d’s Will, but that does not mean we should lie back and allow people to make a shamttah out of us. We also have an obligation of “hochayach tochiyach es amisecha.” If you see a wrongdoing, or are aware of it happening in the community, we have every right to speak out against that wrongdoing, especially in a public forum, where those people may see themselves in the discussion, and possibly take steps to rectify their outrageous behavior. Please do not blame the victim or his/her support group for bringing these issues to light.