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I am glad that the story about my dad O”H resonated with you. It still amazes me to this day that something so extremely sad for my family, is what strengthed our bitachon in Hashem’s tzidkus. When my mom, sibs, and I said the bracha of Baruch Dayan HaEmes, we truly had kavanah in saying it. It is not something I can explain in words – it was a tremendous feeling of connectedness to Hashem at that moment. It makes me emotional even as I recall it now. Above all, we thank Hashem that He spared us from losing both my parents at the same time, i.e. in a car accident as a result of his stroke. He gave us another five months with our mother O”H, and though it was not nearly enough time, it was a chessed.
Goldberg? (not my surname, btw)
I think that if you know going into the school that this is a rule, they can impose any rule that they wish. What I object to is the school that imposes arbitrary rules AFTER you have already been in the system for a while. It’s as though they draw you in, and when they know they have you over the barrel, they change the rules suddenly. If I send my child to one Yeshivah over another because that Yeshivah is (for argument’s sake) Zionistic, and then, because the parent body is slowly becoming more Agudah-like, the Yeshivah drops it’s Yom Haatzmaut parade day, and Yom Yerushalayim observance, then I feel disconcerted.
Personally, I don’t feel it is the business of a Yeshivah to tell a parent whether or not he can have internet on his computer, or even if he can HAVE a computer – or ELSE! Maybe the parent has no other Yeshivah within reasonable travelling, to which he can send that child. This puts the parents in an untenable position of “hiding” their computer and being a hypocrite, or not having oen available for necessary work. However, that being said – if the Yeshivah does so order the parent body, then either the parent needs to discuss his particular problem with the school and hope the RY will be understanding of his dilemma, or start looking for another place for his child. If by the way, enough parents felt the same way as he, parents who are paying tuition, and they all took their kids out, the school might revisit the situation and find another solution to this issue. Otherwise, they get to make the rules,and ya gots to follow ’em.
Who is this Gen. Schmooze I keep reading about, and what army is he leading?
It is easy enough to make your own Playdough, if you are really concerned about this. To me,if it’s not fit for a dog to eat it, I wouldn’t be as worried, as I would for something that is meant to be edible, like the cakes from the play ovens. Given the price of these things, I would sooner just make my own. I think it only requires flour,water, salt, food coloring, and possibly corn syrup, to make cheap and kosher play dough that is compeltely non-toxic.
I have a great one for the Sedarim, so I will try to remember to post just before Yom Tov. it is a Dvar Torah that my Dad O”H used to tell over every year on the first Seder Night, and was in the name of the Vilna Gaon.
You can open a Thread here: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/forum/pesach to post the Pesach D’var Torah. YW Moderator-72
I was wondering though, in part of the niceness of far rkwy was that Everyone said good shabbos including the men. Is that the norm?
It is my understanding that in any neighborhood you will find men who will be makdim b’sholom, but not initiate the hello with a female. They will, however, respond if she says Good Shabbos first. I just say GS, and I don’t stand on ceremony.
“Ultimately, our role is to help the entire world, not to knock others.”
ICAM, PY, but unfortunately not everyone seems to see it the same way as we.
where is the Dvar Torah thread???? I seem to have “lost” it somehow. I wanted to post a very, very short one based on the moment when Moshe Rabbeinu encountered the burning bush that was not consumed, “v’hasneh einenu ookal.” My rov told over something cute (I do not know who the originator of the thought is), that the reason that we call a grandchild “ainekel” is from this sentence in the Torah. Our grandchildren are the future of klal Yisroel, adn as long as we are producing children and their children, no matter what is done to us (hasneh boer ba-eish), whether it is the Egyptians, the Roman Empire, the Arabs, or the Holocaust, Am Yisroel will never be consumed, because of the “ainenu ookal” the ainekel, the future generations.
The link:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/ywn-coffee-room-nightly-dvar-torah
it is a sticky thread. YW Moderator-72
Hi xerox – hope this helps your ego. 🙂
How many of here feel that posting on this site affects our personalities? Do the shy IRL, become bold in the CR, etc?
What bothers me more about shadchanim such as salsa described (and btw, I meant to say welcome, salsa) is when they act as though they are SO committed to helping you (and since most of them are being paid, they should remind themselves that this is not just a favor they are doing for someone, and even WERE, they should still act with kindness and thoughtfulness) and then let you flap in the wind without another contact of ANY kind, even just to say,” haven’t had a chance to follow through yet.”In my experience, too many people consider themselves shadchanim, when they have no business (pun definitely intended) being involved in the process. I know a shadchan who actually SPOILED the shidduch by interfering too much with the young couple who just needed more time to assess their feelings. Because the boy was being pushed, he called it off after a dozen dates.
Salsa, do not ever (and I cannot emphasize this more strongly) EVER feel like you are a nebach case??? How can you think this of yourself? Because some shadchan is a) too busy b) too disorganized, or c) too rude to get back to you, don’t see it as a failing in yourself. The shadchan may be working on something for you or someone else, which is taking his/her attention off you for the moment It is possible they simply have had no chance to go over your information and see if they know someone suitable. Personally, I see no problem with respectfully leaving a non-whiney message for them. I would e-mail first, and say something along the lines of wanting to say thank you for their time and effort, that you can appreciate how very busy they must be, and you are wondering what would be the best time to speak with them. If that doesn’t work, move on to another shadchan. There is such a thing as a shadchan who really is not right for you, even if he/she was right for someone else. Believe me, I know. Hatzlacha rabba to you.
oomis1105: I thought this turn of events looked familiar:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/out-of-the-mailbag-jewish-kindness
I remember reading this previously, and thinking at the time how this type of thing really does happen more often than we think. I think it is so wonderful when we do acts of random kindness for others, Jewish or not. it makes a real tikkun in this olam.
Thank you, ames. It is an eye-opening experience, to say the least, when we actually are able to recognize that Hashem is with us, and not just give lip-service to that belief.
I could never understand why Syrians have the “minhag” of taking the time on an invitation to mean two hours LATER? Then again, in order to get my dad O”H ANYWHERE on time, we always had to tell him it was two hours earlier…
mchemtob, it is very nice of you to put the quarter in, but know that you can get arrested for doing that. It is one of the really nonsensical laws around, but it is against the law to put money in a meter for someone (probably because it prevents the city from collecting the fine for an expired meter). I’m not saying to stop doing this chessed, just be careful. There was a whole story about a woman who was arrested for doing this.
As to a chessed, well I wouldn’t talk about myself, but my husband and I were driving home from Brooklyn one day when someone honked us. We rolled down the window and it was two black ladies who were clearly lost and asking for directions to the VAn Wyck from where we were at that moment. We tried to explain, but it was obvious we were only confusing the poor lady even mroe, so we told her we were going more or less in that direction and to follow us. We would have been home in five minutes, but my husband insisted on leading them all the way to the approach of the Van Wyck, a twenty-five minute drive there, and another twenty or so back. The ladies were very appreciative, and I feel my husband did a great kiddush Hashem, because wearing a kippah, it was obvious an Orthodox Jew had helped them.
The other side of this coin is the middah k’neged middah that Hashem showed my husband just a few months later. He took my son to Yankee Stadium for a ball game, and they got out quite late. My husband was unsure of the road, and couldn’t see any signs for how to get back towards Kennedy Airport. So he started to get really farblunjet in the Bronx, and didn’t see a way of getting back on track. Suddenly a car came by, and it was a couple of black guys. Though he was a little nervous, he honked at them, and then asked them for directions. They started to try to explain to him, when one of them suddenly said – it’s too complicated, just follow us, we’ll get you to the road. And so they did. they drove around twenty minutes leading the way to where my husband was finally familiar with where he had to go. I guess this is an ’emunah” story, too, for the other thread, but it’s nice to see chessed goreir chessed.
oomis1105: I thought this turn of events looked familiar:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/out-of-the-mailbag-jewish-kindness
YW Moderator-72 :o)
Believe me, Anon, it is something none of us will ever forget. The many rabbonim who came to be menachem aveilim, all told us what an amazing neis our family was zocheh to experience. It was very fitting, because my father O”H was a true baal chessed who as a chiropractor took care of his patients even when they had no insurance and could not pay him. We did not grow up wealthy, but we grew up having the two most wonderful role models to teach us how to be mekayeim mitzvos bein adam l’chavero.
There is more to the story of my dad’s petirah, regarding my mom’s my siblings’ and my experiences during the shiva week for him. But another time, perhaps…
I have always had tremendous bitachon, but my bitachon was strengthened when my father passed away suddenly (follwoed five months later by my mom). I may have posted this already once, I have told this story over so often, I no longer remember who has read it, but here it is: The night my father had a fatal sroke, he and my mom were going to a Bar-Mitzvah seuda in Brooklyn. They had a wonderful time, and left the simcha at around 11 PM. After a couple of minutes ( as per my mom’s recounting of the events), my dad began driving very slowly. He seemed to not be so familiar with the road he was travelling, but continued to drive. The trip to Brooklyn and back to their home was one which he did every single day Sunday through Thursday, for all the years of their marriage, and he knew the road like the back of his hand. He continued to drive and wouldn’t respond to my mom’s question as to why he was driving so slowly. She didn’t question his silence, really, because when he drove at night, he often preferred to solely concentrate on the road and only spoke when he had to. It was almost 1 AM, when he pulled up in front of Beth David Cemetery in Long Island, where his family is buried. My mom, recognizing the location, asked him why he drove all the way to Elmont, that he must have missed the turn to their own neighborhood and continued to drive. She told him to turn the car around and go back int he right direction towards their home. Wordlessly, he did exactly as she said, and drove the car stopping at every red light and stop sign, (still very slowly) to their home, where he pulled into the driveway up to the area where he normally dropped her off before continuing to the back of the house to park. My mom tried to get my dad’s attention, but she realized that this was not his typical late night driving silence. She suddenly knew something was really, really wrong with him. It wasn’t that he simply was NOT speaking, he COULD not speak. He was paralyzed. His feet were not on either the gas pedal or the brake, but the car was not moving. She couldn’t even shut the engine of the car, because she didn’t drive.
She ran out of the car at 1:15 AM, pounded on her neighbor’s door, who came out took one look at my dad and called Hatzalah (this was 15 years ago, no one had cell phones). My mom called me also, and I got there at the same time as Hatzalah. Without going into many more details, the doctors told us later that my dad had such a massive cerebral accident (code for stroke), that they could not even measure his blood pressure – it was off the charts. Once the first blood vessel broke in his brain, they all went instantaneously, like dominoes. The stroke was over in a matter of seconds. They wanted to know how my mom got him home, because he could not possibly have been driving the car. They said that the stroke had started a couple of hours before, and once it started there was no stopping it. My mom explained that he DID drive the car, because she cannot drive, and they didn’t believe her. Kept saying it was physiologically impossible, based on the damage they had assessed that he could have been driving for at least the last hour of that two hour drive, that she must have subconsciously taken the wheel. Not having seen the car, the docs could not have known that this, too, would have been impossible, even had she wanted to do so and had known how to drive. Let them think what they wanted to think, my dad was niftar exactly 36 hours to the minute from the time I saw him in the car, clearly paralyzed. We know how they got home. It could only have been hashgocha protis, and Hashem sent a malach to take control of the wheel, or gave my wonderful father O”H the ability to drive, while brain dead. B”H, we did not lose BOTH parents that night. It was hard enough coming to the realization that he would not be getting better. Anyway, this is how Hashem gave me chizuk during the lowest point of my life, by showing me that HE absolutely is in control of everything in a way that none of us could ever deny.
“nice diyuk, but the loshon I used was typical of me. I am purposely as ambiguous as possible in the CR”
I have always thought Squeak is female. The comment about telling every woman Squeak knows how easy her life is, is something a woman would say. Frum guys are generally not as sensitive to the tribulations of Jewish women (even when they are very caring guys).
So I vote “Lady Squeak.”
My goodness – SJSinNYC (thank you, and ditto), Rabbi of Berlin, Illini07, ICOT,Jewishfeminist, Shindy, Lesschumras, Joseph, and so many more! Whether or not I agree with your opinions, I am very much interested in hearing them, so keep posting, even we agree to disagree.
SJS, I cannot recall a single instance where I thought you wrote something disrespectfully, even while disagreeing with someone.
My son went to Lander College in Queens and it was EXCELLENT. The shiurim are wonderful, as are the rebbeim, and the education is really terrific. We were very happy.
Chatty — what a terrific story. Even if it is an urband legend (and who knows, really???), it illustrates the idea that helping someone can literally save your life. Look at all the stories of people who did NOT die in the Twin Towers, because they came to work late that day, due to being detained while helping out a family member etc.
Why is it accepted that frum guys smoke but totally out of the question for girls? What’s the difference?
Who says it is? I would NEVER allow a shidduch with one of my daughters with a guy who smoked (even a little bit). They would never want a guy who smokes. It is a filthy, smelly, expensive, and health-threatening addiction. which imperils the people who live with a smoker almost as much as it imperils the smoker. That being said, many people view women smoking as being untzniusdig. Man or woman, I am against anyone smoking, at least anywhere near my loved ones or me. By the way, for any woman who does smoke – it ages and wrinkles your skin prematurely, because of the motion you make while taking a repeated puffs, as well as the toxins ingested in the smoke.
I have such a headache….
when my kids asked him why one eye is blue and one eye is brown he told them..
For the record, it is the IRIS, not the cornea that is the colored part of the eye, so I am not sure what your uncle’s story is. A cornea transplant would not change an eye color. Maybe he has a cataract on the other eye, making it appear a different shade. In any case, DON’T SMOKE – – it’s really bad for you and for everyone around you.
I think that some Jews have a need to label other Jews, because they identify with a specific hashkafa, and want to recognize others sharing that hashkafa. I don’t think that in and of itself it is a bad thing. It becomes bad when people use the labels to exclude others or deride them. But I know that I personally feel more comfortable when in an environment consisting of Modern Orthodox machmir Jews who see nothing wrong in sitting at a mixed table at a simcha (though there should eb a mechitzah for dancing purposes), than when I am with a more Litvishe, yeshivish crowd. I am friendly to everyone I meet (or at least I try to be), but my preference is what it is. Sometimes the labels are necessary, in order to ensure that shidduchim are not being redd to people who have nothing in common. Sometimes the labels are meaningless, because different people understand things in non-identical ways. What I call modern frum, may not be what you call modern frum. You might feel it is a woman who wears pants, or a man who wears a knit kippah. I might simply mean a girl who covers her hair after marriage, davens everyday, but is college and post-grad educated, and wants the same in her husband. Everything is relative and very subjective.
Joseph is correct. According to what I learned, the first Jews who made cholent did it specifically against the Karaites who took the written Torah literally, and would not accept the Oral Law. When they read that we should not burn fire on Shabbos in all our dwelling places, they took it to mean that there can be no light burning, nor any hot food. So they sat in the dark and ate cold food. Because we follow both the Torah she-bicsav and the Torah she-b’al peh, the rabbonim felt they had to show that the Talmud explains exactly HOW we may keep cooked food hot, and that we don’t sit in the dark, and that the Talmud must be accepted as our halacha along with the Chumash.
It boils down to one thing – just show a little derech eretz. When you disagree, don’t be disagreeable (this is not directed at anyone here).
Thanks to ICOT and frum not crum for answering my question. You were both very helpful!
You need a format where we can see the letters as they appear, also a clue (like “occupation,” “place,” “thing.”)
1) “The collecters that send others to the ppl that gave them nicely are being oiver a mefurish gemara in elu metzios That a person shouldn’t say my host treated me exceptionally because in result others will burden themselves onto that host and it comes out he returned his host a bad for a good! “
2) “ooomis15, a true chutzpah on their part. as much as we have an obligation to give they have to learn to accept what they are given and not beg for more.
Last night, after 11 our bell rang it was a van full of meshulachim…all whom had just been by us on chanuka and received money…a groisser chutzpah if you ask me.”
What is especially upsetting is when these guys come to my house (in a beautiful limousine parked around the corner (they don’t know I can see from my back window as they come around the block), and one after another of them ring ther bell. I finally caught on that they were all from the same place, after the third guy came collecting and received money (of course no one showed a teudah, but neither do I ever ask to see one, so I guess that is my responsibility), and I stopped answering the doorbell. As I once explained, collectors are supposed to get a permit to collect in my neighborhood. It is issued by our local tzedaka vaad. I don’t usually ask to see the teudah, I always just gave, because the person came to collect. But after MANY bad experiences, and after a woman in the neighborhood was robbed by a guy dressed as a collector, I am more circumspect and selective.
Thanks, Rosh Yeshivah, for the halacha from Elu M’tziyos that you explained.
Someone please tell me, what is the difference (if any) between a laptop and a “notebook?” If there is a difference, is one better than the other? Can either or both do exactly what a desktop tower and monitor can do?
“The Shulchan Aruch, Rambam, etc. (amongst the other varied sources) is halacha lmaaisa. I apologize in advance for your MO sensibilities that are in sync with Gloria Steinem, Bella Abzug and Susan B. Anthony, rather than the Chofetz Chaim, the Chazon Ish, and the Steipler Gaon. Its just too bad that you view 3,000 years of glorious Jewish history as “women were totally subservient to men, and NOT treated at equal partners in their marriages.” For us Torah-based traditionalist, we will continue living in the ways of our holy zeidas and bubbes, as they have since Matan Sinai. “
I stand by what I said before. I personally have nothing in common with the hashkafos of Ms. Steinem and Abzug, despite what you think. I find their views to be as stident and filled with self-righteous indignation as your own.You know nothing whatsoever about me, and the fact that for 3,000 years women were treated a certain way, was not always due to halacha, but to the tenor of the times. If you cannot see that, there is no further dialogue between you and me on this issue. We live in a time when we have modern conveniences (sometimes more like INconveniences), and the halacha reflects that evolution, as the rabbonim gain a greater understanding of how things work, i.e. electricity. Perhaps women did not drive wagons, though clearly they rode on camels, which could be considered as driving (before you protest, WHERE was Rochel Emainu sitting when her father came looking for the teraphim?). So it is not an issue of driving. It may have been less tsniusdig in the alte heim for women to drive a wagon in the open (though I cannot recall that women needed to do that driving, as they were homebound due to the nature of raising of their families when their husbands worked the land or did other jobs). But it surely is not untsniusdig for them to drive an auto, in which they are so encased, you cannot always tell if a man or woman is driving. In any case, do you also have a halachic objection to them riding a bike? What about walking in the street?
“And btw, Sara, Rivka, Rochel, and Leah Emainu looked towards Avraham, Yitzchok, and Yaakov Avinu for all their guidance.
Yeah, I know. Your MO Rabbi never mentioned any of this in his “Shabbat speeches”
No they did not, NOT when it counted the most. Sara threw hagar out with Avraham’s bechor Yishmael. She didn’t ask his permission. Rivka took the brachos meant for Esav out of Yitchak’s hands, and made sure Yaakov got them. She didn;’t ask his permission. Rochel took her father’s idols, to keep him from doing avoda zara. She didn’t ask Yaakov’s permission (and ended up dying for that, but then again, it was al kiddush Hashem that she did what she did, and that is why she is the one who is mevaka al baneha and no one else) Leah did not ask her husband’s permission to be with him. She gave her son’s flowers to Rachel, and then informed her husband that he was going to be with her that night.
BTW, you know nothing about me, yet you make what superficially sounds like pejorative comments about my MO sensitivities, and even more, you comment about my Rov, about whom you surely have no basis or right to make what appears to be a negative judgment. I will stack my rov and his shabbos drashas against yours any day. My rov is an extremely learned man a musmach of Torah Vadaas, and your “MO Rabbi” comment was unworthy and abysmally off-base. I understand that your comments all come from choshuvah sources, but are they all halacha l’maiseh, or opinions about women’s behavior, from a time when ALL women were totally subservient to men, and NOT treated at equal partners in their marriages? And again, I will reiterate, if what you say is halacha, then there is no excuse for even one kollel wife to be out working instead of running her home. Period.
A husband is the final decider
Not according to Sara, Rivka, Rochel, and Leah Emainu. Not according to Miriam, Tzipporah, Devorah, Rachav, etc.
And Zalman, BOY did you twist this: “The beauty of a woman is to stay inside – “Kol Kevudah…” That does not mean a woman has to stay inside, it means her real beauty is her INNER BEAUTY, that externals are not what are important. That her middos are part of her internal essence, and that is what is her true kovod. As to all the excellent quotes that you posted, many of them are observations of the times. Women do not wear burkas today, and walk with faces veiled, not Jewish women anyway. It is typical for women to leave the home. And you cannot have it both ways. Either it is assur for them to leave the home as you imply, or meritorious that they stay in, as you state, or it is
a good thing, because without women leaving the home and earning the parnassah, all those lovely yeshivah husbands in kollel would be unable to be there all day. So it is ok for women to do something that all the chachomim (according to your own excellently researched post) agree is NOT a good thing or tzniusdig, or b’kovodig, BECAUSE THEIR HUSBANDS WANT THEM TO. Kinderlach, can we say … never mind, I am refraining from using the expression that this type of thinking calls to mind.
What are you trying to say? Yes according to the torah ways those points generally are the way we do things.
Excuse me,Intelligent, perhaps I misunderstand you, but where did you say it says in the Torah that a woman cannot leave the house without her husband’s permission?
“Any mature girl would not get so frightened about the idea of not driving”
Phyllis, were you serious when you posted that? Any mature girl who has been driving, would tell a man to take a hike if he forbade her from driving, UNLESS it was her own desire to refrain from driving. A mature BOY would recognize that driving is not a luxury, but a necessity nowadays for women, UNLESS he is willing to do the shopping, the carpooling, the general chauffeuring around, the doctor appointments, etc. Somehow, I think that once those guys had a taste of what their wives have to do on a regular basis, most of them would recognize the benefits of their wives driving ASAP.
Anyone who gives out their credit card number to any stranger, is begiing for identity theft, along with their bank account.
“In fact, the main reason for summer vacation from school is because children were needed at home to help with the harvest (also because of lack of air-conditioning). So don’t start with this garbage about how kids should be carefree and not given any responsibilities.”
Big One, you are a little strident soudning, and you are also speaking in extremes. Children no longer help with harvesting, and those who did, did not live the type of life that our frum kids do. No one says kids should not have responsibilities at home. But it is NOT their job to be slaves or become parents at age 9 or 10 (and let’s get real, in these homes it is usually the DAUGHTERS who are so designated). If those Holy Women in Klal Yisroel want to keep having children, it behooves them to take care of them. By the time many of the oldest female siblings grow up, they are burnt out. For you to think otherwise, much less criticize people who have that opinion, and for you to essentially equate birth control with murder, shows a singular lack of sensitivity to what pregnancy and motherhood are. Are you a man or woman? I honestly cannot believe that you could be a woman. Or else, you are very young, because only a young, extremely idealistic and inexperienced person could say what you said, in the loshon that you used. And if you are not a young person, then your words show a lack of tact, and you should know better.
“Jonathon Mark writes for The Jewish Week, a Zionist liberal paper to say the least.
I applaud the editor for posting a good article here, no matter the source…. “
Mikall melamdai hiskalti…
When the truth is literaslly in front of one’s eyes and STILL one refuses to see, it can only be that Hashem is blinding that person. Otherwise it makes absolutely no sense. Muslim monsters blow up a frum woman expecting her parents’ only hope for a grandchild, along with all the others that died in Sbarro’s Pizza, they murder a beautiful young woman about to be married, along with her father, a noted doctor who often saved the lives of those worthless enemies of our people (maybe even one of them was the bomber), and so on ad nauseum, and THE WORLD IS SILENT! Israel defends itself and the world is up in arms. There was a video that chilled me, with an American anchor interviewing a Muslim American female reporter. The woman steadfastedly refused to acknowledge Hamas’ responsibility for what was happening, calling for the world to castigate Israel for its aggression. When asked if she thought Hamas bore any responsibility, she answered very emphatically, “ABSOLUTELY NOT!!” This can only happen with Hashem’s decision.
Well-written and strong, this article really speaks to the real problem in the Middle East. IMO, there will never be peace there unless and until every last Muslim is out of E”Y, and more scared of Israel, than they are eager to show Israel who’s the boss.
I’ll try to read it, though I am imagining it will not seriously change my mind about certain issues, though I am sure it is very inspirational. Given the context of the times about which she writes, it sounds like it is really not so relevant to today’s reality, as much as I am certain there is much wisdom contained in her work.
“the oldest children help raise the others. I’ve seen this many times and its always unfair to the older children”
ive seen it many times as well
how beautiful it is.
how healthy it is.
how it strengthens the “parents at 9 years old” to be strong caring sensitive parents of their own children.
you might like to read “all for the boss”
I haven’t read this book, so I speak from ignorance, probably, but it is still just the author’s opinion (is the author by any chance a man???). There is nothing beautiful about turning a 9 year old into a slave. Now, it is one thing to ask a child (and this is a CHILD, not a responsible adult, for heaven’s sake), to watch a younger sib for a short while as the mom is cooking, but that is NOT what is happening. The mothers are having baby after baby, and they are NOT taking responsibility for those babies. HOw could they, they are exhausted from being pregnant every year and recuperating from childbirth. Many suffer PPD after they give birth. It is borderline child abuse, to expect the children who are youngsters themselves, to be responsible for a live creature whom they should not have to worry about for at least another 10 years or so. And it is neither beautiful nor healthy for anyone in that family, least of all the baby, who is being taken care of by another baby. Give the kids some responsibilities, but don’t turn them into the parents.
Well, when the little kids come collecting for THEIR Yeshivahs (and four of five little ones come together), I give to each one of them, so their school probably ends up with a lot more from me than it would have, otherwise.
got it oomis…! thanks for the clarification … so gr8 to be friends with u!
Why, THANK you very much!!!!!! 🙂
And to clear up one other thing, I wish I could say I were, but I have a lo-o-o-o-ng way to go before I could be referred to as a tzadeikes. I wish…
“oomis – the Torah respects women. nothing to do with feminism. “
I both agree AND diasgree with your statement. The TORAH respects women. Some Jewish men do not, and that is why the feminist movement reached the frum world, as well. BTW, the Torah which respects women, for the most part ONLY mentions women by name, when the Torah deems it necessary, and in each case, the women distinguished themselves through some act that would be described as feminist in nature.For example, Sara, sending Hagar and her wild son away, for the good of Yitzchak, over Avraham’s objections, Rivka making the decision to ensure that Yaakov receive the brachos meant for Esav (not to mention making her OWN decision about going away with Eliezer, to marry Yitzchak), Rachel stealing her father’s idols, so he could not worship them,Tamar forcing the issue of Yibum with Yehudah in order to bring about the future Moshiach, Shifra and Puah defying Pharaoh’s edicts and saving the baby boys, Miriam giving her father mussar about having more children, Tzipporah doing a bris milah on her son,and of course, as mentioned so correctly, B’nos Tzelaphchad, etc etc.
If this did not have to do with what we think of as feminism, I do not knwo what does.
“Also, there is another pitfall to having many kids – often, you don’t get to spend quality time with each one. You churn them out, and then the oldest children help raise the others. I’ve seen this many times and its always unfair to the older children. Its one thing for your kids to help out (and they should), its another to make them into parents at 9 years old. “
This bears repeating in its entirety. There are several women in my neighborhood who have families upwards of 13-17 children. The moms are always pregnant (don’t even WANT to think about what that must feel like), and the older children are the ones who care for the little ones. I virtually NEVER see the moms with the kids, only older siblings taking care of the younger ones. You know what – the older sibs did not ask to become unpaid nannies, especially when their job is supposed to be to do well in school and learn how to be productive members of society. How much time can you really give a child who needs attention, when there are 8 or ten others in the family, also in need, especially when they are very close in age? I have kinehora five children by birth, as well as the two who married my children, and it is a huge juggling act, even when they are all adults. This one needs me to help proofread a paper, that one needs me to babysit, the next one, who does not drive, needs to be brought somewhere and picked up (car service is unreliable, and at night that is especially problematic), and so on. I would have loved to have more children, though Hashem took the decision out of my hands (VERY wisely, I might add), and I am happy with the ones I have, B”H.
“It should be put to gedolei ha-dor and see what they say to do. They are our eyes and ears.”
I think if there were a genuine threat,that people have to use their own seichel, and not rely on the opinions of others. Many of our gedolim of Europe kept telling people to stay put as Hitler Y”S came to power, and we lost a significant number of Jews who could have otherwise been saved had they NOT listened to those rabbonim and instead had run to E”Y or America. With respect, not every issue is a rabbinic one.